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World of Warcraft Editorial: Character Customization
Garrett Fuller looks at the idea of being unique in World of Warcraft.
By on November 08, 2006
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World of Warcraft: Character Customization
Editorial by Garrett Fuller
On the verge of the Burning Crusade expansion I wanted to ask the question to Warcraft players how you view your character. In playing many MMOs we all stick by our avatar very closely going through the trials of leveling up to the end game. Since Warcraft has been at its end game for over a year (being out two years) now many players constantly look for ways to tweak their character out and make them better. In this aspect Blizzard has given us a loot based system. The classes and races themselves are balanced to some degree (I know Will of the Forsaken tips the scales a bit). It is in the loot that players win and use that really makes the difference. The other way to boost your character is by gaining faction with various races or creatures in the world and using that faction to buy more loot. With another ten levels being added to the game, is there a chance we'll be able to customize out characters without having to grind raid dungeons or PvP instances to get the boost we need? I know I know we'll get more talents, spells and abilities. Do those things really make the difference when playing? Yes they do on an even playing field. The bottom line of Warcraft is you are only as good as your loot. The game was designed this way to keep players going after new items for further enhancement. One of my biggest complaints about Warcraft has been character or avatar customization. If I am an orc shaman with Ten Storms Gear, an Aurastone Hammer and a Red Dragonscale Protector, I pretty much look like every other orc shaman with those items. There is no way to set your character apart at that point. The look of your character stays the same. Some games allowed players to at least dye their items for a customized look. Warcraft does not, everything is the same and we all have to wear it. I know this seems like some thing small to complain about in the grand scheme of things, but don't you like having the ability to give your character something that is uniquely his or her own? Being the top MMO in the world right now, maybe it would be nice to have yourself stand out a bit more in the population of seven million players. Moving beyond the look of an avatar, what about the depth of the set up that players are given? We get talents to customize things, these are quick and easy to figure out and most players use a spec that is the best for their given class. Once you get to the end, if your spec works, there is little reason to change it. Again we hit a dead end. I have not changed my spec as a shaman in over a year. It works for what I need to do. Warriors basically have two choices: defensive tank or PvP crit-warrior. The same holds true for most classes. My point about talents is when you really get through the experimental stages to find out what works, many players settle on what is best for their class. This holds true in any game, but giving players another level of customization to their characters might be a nice addition. I guess for me it's the depth that Warcraft goes in building your character, it can be shallow. Don't get me wrong I am not asking for this huge immersive character building experience. I do think however that developers should give players ways to have depth in abilities while still keeping the game in balance. Finally let's talk about loot, gear, equipment, items, all of it. This is where Warcraft has become very unbalanced. Players who reach sixty with all blue gear will get crushed by a player in epic gear. I understand that player has gone through a lot to get the epics and they deserve them, but why not give the gear bonuses in other areas besides damage and attack speed. If all weapons did the same damage at the end game and hit for basically the same DPS overall it may allow fights to go on longer and allow players to reach into a different bag of tricks for PvP. Make epic weapons give players a bonus to other areas. Boost strength or stamina a little more, I can even see boosting the crit-strike chance. It is really the DPS that drives these weapons and armor over the edge of balance. In a way developers have created the perfect system to keep players raiding and pushing for the next best thing. Still, there should be ways for every players to compete on an equal playing field or at least a field where you are level sixty, have a few epics and blues, and don't get crushed by a Tier three mage with all the gear possible. I know there are some opinions in this editorial that people may question. But that is why we bring up these topics, to get you to question the balance and design of games. I wish there were more ways to customize World of Warcraft. I think Blizzard owes it to the players who have stuck by the game for two years now. Fortunately, myself and all the shamans of the guild look pretty good together. Kind of like a football team. Maybe with the expansion we'll see a deeper level of customization in the characters we play. In the feedback, let us know what areas you think Warcraft could improve on as far as character customization goes.
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Lol, what customization? As far as I'm concerned the only thing they're adding to make it any more personal is two new races, and I'll be damned if anyone goes as far as starting over from level 1 just to look different from other people.
WoW is upsetting in many respects, and this is just one of them that I don't see getting any better with BC.
Agree, and Agree
Might be nice to look a little different than everyone else out there. WAR supposedly is allowing you to hang skulls from your armor. Even if it is a the same armor everyone else has, that little tweek can mean a lot to a player.
And yes I hate raiding as well. As much trouble and guild drama I went through to get the Tier 1 stuff, there is no way I was going to completely ignore RL again to get another purple. Do I get destroyed in PvP? Sometimes. WoW loves Raiders. Because they never cancel their account hehe.
I quit WoW for just that reason. I'll resub for BC because I heard it is possible through PvP to get raid quality gear without the 80 hour a week BG grind. We'll see.
It's a good game. Great mechanics. Few Bugs. Easy to play. Now if they can listen to the rest of us besides the raiding-every-night-forum-trolls, it'll be even better.
The extent to which WOW takes gear is way over the top, i dont mind raiding, i dont mind PVPing, i like them both, heck i like WOW as a game .It was, at one time, a very fun MMO. With that being said i think people are getting fed up with the neverending gear grind. Honestly if raiders werent allowed to bring thier tier 2-3 epics into the BGs, no one would ever have complained about raid gear. I in no way think this is the players fault, they worked hard for those epics and they have the right to wear them wherever they choose. But its Blizzards mechanic that is to blame.
WOW did alot of good things for the MMO buisness overall, it attracted ALOT more people to MMOS which will, in the long run, benefit us die hard MMO fans by allowing companies to invest more time into a game and make it better and more polished on release, in other words, investors wont be breathing down the necks of game companies now that they have seen how much $$ WOW has brought in, well not breathing down their necks as much heh.
I honestly believe WOW is turning the corner, in the near future there are several promising games coming out, Im not saying WOW will lose all of its playerbase by any means, in fact i think it will still continue to be #1 for quite some time. Personally i think its time for me to move on, i had a great time with it, but like Mr. Fuller pointed out the purple neverending gear grind is just gettin old and so is WOW.
I look forward to what these new games will bring, Vanguard, LOTR, Warhammer, Spellborn all seem to be very interesting games, im sure they will have raiding wether it be PVP or PVE, but it will be a different atmosphere and hopefully they will see the mistakes that WOW has made with thier snowballing gear effect, because gamers are evolving, and its time for these games to evolve with us.
Well... i think the talents are pretty well done for a MMO, and if you like to you will always be able to play a "different" character - theres always some "best" build, no matter how complex your system may be...
But as for the looks - yes, i agree... its not fun looking like evry other orc schaman (yes, me too).
I can honestly say I don’t think WoW was ever made to be the eye candy game. What it was made to be was a game with very low poly counts so it could run on the worst machines, and also be able to handle multiple people on the same screen without messing up.
I think if you consider the original plans for WoW included player built cities similar to WC3 cities, and also raid based PvP it is not hard to figure out why WoW has limited themselves in customization for better performance and more action on the screen at the same time.
I wish that WoW had created more specialized gear for raids with slight bonuses as opposed to huge bonuses that completely tip the scales. I wouldn't mind if Tier 3 weapons armor had higher damage or armor values, that's expected. But the bonuses we see make it end all be all gear. Since all you have to do is raid your heart out, you become a god in the game with just minimal skill over your opposition.
If the bonuses were specialized to the class or certain talents/spells, then you'd have to become a better player while also gathering better loot, because if you didn't know how to take advantage of the spells or talents affected then you'd never get the most out of your gear.
Of course, this is just how I feel. A game that caters to casual players shouldn't all of a sudden force you into hardcore raiding to keep up.
If you look at the batch of current next gen MMO's other than WoW and the ones in development you will see a similar trait in all of them, a diverse and extremly in-depth customisation of your character from creation to your first stumbling steps into their gaming world.
Customisation to alot of players is extremly important, take Everquest 2 for example, they had pre-order disks before the game went live so that you could create and play around with the very same character creation system you would eventually use in the real game.
WoW reminds me of the vast amount of korean games we see filling the MMORPG games list, they all offer one or 2 different character choices and very few other options to make your beloved character appear any different from the thousands of other players you spend your gaming time with.
I used to play a Druid in WoW and in any raid you would be hard pressed to be able to pick me out of a crowd of other druids as we all looked exactly the same with our tier1 armour, in fact it was ridiculous how alike we all looked and quite sad for a game that has so many paying subscribers.
I've since quit WoW in frustration at the many failings in the game and one of them is the lack of variety in how my character is seen in the game world.
I am all for more game systems (in this game and any game) where it's not all about the loot. There are many other things that can be emphasized.
But I disagree with some of the factual premises in this article, to the point I wonder if we are playing the same game?
I routinely defeat player opponents wearing much better gear than I. Gear makes things easier but it is no substitute for competence.
I also see entire raids full of people in awesome gear wipe, and just as often raids with lesser equipped players succeed. Tactics, teamwork and leadership are just as important as what you are wearing.
Then there are the talent trees and the choices you make on what to equip, or what pets or attacks or combinatons of those to use, and a million other things. There are lots of choices.
So while I applaud wanting to see less importance given to loot and more emphasis to other things, I disagree that what you wear is all there is to WoW.
1) Appearance of Characters (hair,face etc)
2) Armors
3) Skills...
The list can go on, but in their FAQ they recetly updated, they said there was no plans to add to or improve the customization of characters, which I find very very lame.
One Human Tanking Warrior w/ Tier3 Epics is exactly the same as another Human Tanking Warrior w/ Tier 3 Epics.
Skillwise and gearwise
I'd like to see a new system that's not about the gear, or at least not ALL about the gear. I'd love for WoW to add more armor sets for each tier.
This is the reason i'll be quitting WoW when Vanguard: Saga of Heroes comes out =)
When UO first came out, everyone was dying everything they could get away with. DAoC followed suit but it seemd to have gotten lost along the way. Since WoW is not graphic intense, you'd think it would be easy to implent. I guess if it's no in the code then it won't be in the code. Programmer I'm not.
As for as gear, WoW stirkes me of the 'Monty Haul of MMOG's. Yeah things like Rings of Power, Invisibility cloaks, and the mighty Excalibur were central to certain stories and grabbed our attention. But to have everything based on loot lacks depth and loses appeal sooner or later (especially when all the phat loot to be had is had...what then ?!). Who know perhaps things will change in time.
Then again, perhaps not.
D
First and foremost WoW is an overly-hyped game. It's overly-exaggerated game as far as it being the very best. Well, if it is it just goes to show you the much worse all the other games of the same type really are. WoW is the best of the worse.
Yes, many people have played it at one time or another but thats because of a few reasons. One, because the game extends to many places unlike many other games. Two, because of all the hype, people have gone on to try the game out. But just as many like myself saw first hand just how bad it really is and have left never to return.
With this said, the customization in this game is terrible. It has about 6 faces per type with just the hair parts being different and those hairs are just as few as the faces. Hence, everyone looks alike.
As far as the weapons and armor and other items are concerned, you need a whole lot of grinding and luck just to be able to come up with something worthwhile. And even when you're lucky enough to loot something good, you have to pray you can actually use it. Most items you loot, you can't use due to your profession being different. Nor can you trade, sell or give them away to another player. Only to the vendors can you sell it and they will give you virtually nothing for them.
There is no money to be made in this game. Missions unlike other games don't reward you with cash. Even a game as bad as Starwars Galaxies with it's new nge pays off good cash per mission.
Once you hit the mid to late 50's before this new levels come aboard, you tend to run out of missions with only dungeons to be done. Dungeons which need a whole lot of people to do. It's not worth it, it's really not.
The people who have played this game and left won't be persuaded to return because we already know how it is. Now they add 2 new professions but other then this, nothing else has changed.
I missed adding this. When Vanguard comes out many many of the people on WoW now will leave for this game. Blizzard also knows this. WoW won't ever catch up to this new game once it comes out and they know it.
Can't wait for a real good game to come out, something Vanguard looks to be.
but as usual, nothing worth worrying about in BC. pre-order and get the pre-order pet, play a toon or two to max level, get bored with the same old garbage they've been doing for the past couple of years, quit again. not even going to bother.
bleh.
Good editorial Garrett
You basically summed up what I hated about the game when I tried it for 2 weeks. Thats right, just 2 weeks and I could tell this game was nothing more than a Loot Whoring affair. I still don't get why people play it, there is really no way to distiguish yourself other than Loot and Level.
This game took a step back from Ultima Online, like most MMORPGs have. However, since many people are new to MMORPGs and have never played Ultima Online (Pre Trammel), they don't know the full potential a MMORPG has. Even Star Wars Galaxies and COH/COV at least made you feel like your character was unique.
Nice job and keep up the good work.
For the first time, I could obtain an epic quality item on my own schedule, based on my own skills. After some unsuccessful attempts and some annoying "good samaritans" trying to help me, (for those who do not know, any assistance during the quest's demon fights despawns the demons for hours) I completed the quest and received the epic bow and staff for my troubles.
After completing the quest, I realized how much more I enjoyed combatting enemies where the end result was dependent on my actions alone. Raiding had become essentially repeating the same few key strokes with the occasional change up for a boss. To get the best items, i had to be online on the set schedule to receive enough DKP (i.e. guild points used to determine looters) which also causes strain with non-WoW players (i.e. the wife).
In my opinion, more solo / small team instances should be created to give players the opportunity to show what they are made of. The loot should be comparable to high end raid 40 man instances. I can guarantee that mastering these types of encounters can be just as difficult, if not more so, than the big 40 man raids. Let the players choose some different item sets for completing the instances. As a hunter, AGI reigns supreme; however Blizz could change the mechanics of the game up a bit to allow more diversity. Let the players decide between high strength -vs- high stamina.
As for PvP, it is fun, but the same rules as raiding applies, especially for AV.
Telling a good game from a bad game is pretty simple once it's out. A good game sells like the proverbial hotcakes while a bad one collects dust on the shelf. You may argue that there are examples of good companies going bust while others thrive on selling trash, but generally I see the market as a good indicator on how much merrit a product has.
Now let's imagine a game with a lot of sliders and colour bars to fiddle with during character creation. Assume you can adjust your size, morph your face to quite some extent, chose hairstyle, eye and skin color, various body adornments, etc.
For my argument I will further assume that, almost without exception, everyone in MMORPGs will wear their fighting gear at all times.
Let's start with eyecolour and face options. Practically no one except you will ever notice which one you chose. You will be the Lvl xx healer/tank/dps, not the guy/girl with the slanted blue eyes. Facial hair seems to make you stand out in some cases, though.
Now hairstyle and haircolour will usually be hidden by your helm. Unless, of course, the helm design is so sub-par that the gameprovider offers you an option to hide the helmet (This indeed has happened in at least one case). Further, if you want to display both your helmet/headdress and your hair, this raises polycount and of course there may be problems with the geometry of helm and hair clashing. If you stick to generics here, you run into less trouble.
Scaling options for tall and short. A very subtle distinguishing feature, but somewhat noticeable, granted. However, including this apparently excludes some interaction with world geometry today (i.e. sitting down in a chair at your friendly inn), also mo-capped animations don't seem to scale very well (see EQ2). There may be other ramifiactions which raise development costs/time too, I presume.
Body adornments and skin colour. Unless the armor worn is revealing, next to pointless.
Options for being either left- or righthanded. I am not aware of any game offering this option, so this may not belong here at all. Would probably be noticeable, you really do a lot of fighting in these type of games after all.
If we speak of options for your armor, that's a different kettle of fish, I suppose. Since your gear ist what others actually get to see of you. Adding custom colour and maybe eyecandy effect options to visible equipment pieces may go a long way, in fact the more a developer goes hog wild here, the better.
And if you as developer stuck to two or three standard avatars with maybe a handful options each which do not affect character geometry, I am considerably certain that development will have a much easier time coming up with new weapon and armor designs, since they will exactly know what they will be dealing with. There wont be any surprise graphic glitches with fat/thin tall/short avatars, or the brow not fitting under the helm, etc. No guesswork or extensive testing required on adding new outfits.
Thank you for bearing with me.
But the type of customization he (the author) seems to be referring to is talents and armor.
Talents in WoW are customizable within reason and class. Like He said, a warrior basically has only 2 choices. A priest typically has 3 and is more likely to switch between them than other classes. I play a rogue mostly, have never changed it (even after patch 1.12), but can propose between 5-10 very unique talent specs based on style and weapon choice. Sadly, most rogues still settle with 1 of 2 'popular' options, which is truly sad.
With the expansion, there does seem to be an attempt to encourage people to customize their talents more than in the past, but this is not entirely true. Priests, and especially rogues, are being pigeonholed into even more specific class roles than before (priests through new talents, rogues through new abilities). Thus, customization of play-style/talents is very debatable.
Armor, on the other hand (and in my opinion) offers next to no customization currently in WoW. As I already said, there's many pieces of armor that'll stick out and look very neat, but the customization is strictly in what pieces you have. There is no ability to change color, or add some spikes, or do anything to customize your armor from someone with the same piece. Furthermore, customization through the STATS on the armor is even more restricting, and plays back into talent customization. Upper level armor in WoW provides little opportunity for a class to choose strength over agility, or AP over crit, and so on. By the time you reach tier2 armor, the stats you will be optimizing has been chosen for you, all you can do is throw on some enchantments. This, in turn, controls how you are likely to spend your talent points, as to make the best use of your stats.
Thus, in the end, your only customization in WoW is your glowy effects, and how far up the armor ladder you've made it.
But then there's jewelmaking. Really, none of us know how it'll all end up. I don't mind the loss of some customization in appearance if it reduces latency, so long as I can still find my friends when I need to. What I don't like is losing customization in how I choose to play my character.
2 weeks ago Garrett Fuler decided to render a negative opinion on the Burning Crusade expansion. I posted in response to that piece indicating that everyone was entitled to their opinion and I won't recant that here. However, I will say that when a person continually has 'editorials' about the same subject, in this case WoW, and they consistently convey the same message, in this case Garrett Fuler has lost interest in WoW, it changes from being an opinion to a glorified whine. How many more articles can we expect on why Garrett Fuler has lost interest in playing WoW? Perhaps we are just fortunate enough to be getting his novella one chapter at a time - 'WoW, How I hate thee'.
So let's cut to the chase - you want to feel unique, you want to stick out from every other player, you want to create a visual statement that makes people remember you. Nothing wrong with that but that isn't what WoW offers and instead of trying to force what you want into WoW why not try one of the several other games that do let you do that? Simply put, if that visual statement is that important to you, then WoW isn't your game. Doesn't make WoW good, bad or anything else, it just means it isn't what you want. Would you buy car racing game on your X-Box if you wanted to play Basketball?
Ok, last point, you are totally off your rocker with your comparison of the haves and have nots when it comes to loot. First of all you are insinuating that players MUST compete against other players at the end game. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Second, you are also iimplying that when players do compete against other players, that it often happens in a 1 on 1 scenario. This is also not the norm. Yes, if your end game consists of standing outside the gates of Ogrimmar or on the streets of Goldshire dueling with other players then you are 100% spot on. Otherwise, this is nothing more than cleverly disguised statement of loot envy.
In closing, yes, you are welcome to have your opinions but perhaps you should broaden your horizon and speak of issues that span the MMOG genre as a whole instead of trying to appeal vocal minority that riddle the forums of MMOG games with their complaints about how no game is ever good enough.
If this is the kind of drivel that the MMORPG.com site wants to sponsor when it comes to 'fresh new content', I am going to have to seriously consider its removal from my list of sites to read.
Hero's Journey offers total customization and a deep gameplay experience. Role-playing is going to be emphasized, just like it was in EQ's first days. Here's to hoping it sticks!
WoW could revamp their system to allow for the customization of armor. Heck, just having the ability to turn off shoulderpads would be an improvement. Choosing which two colors your armor displays would be a massive improvement in the fight to stand out in a crowd. Don't want fuschia warriors? Don't include it in the palette!
Faces would be great if they just added ten more faces per race. A bevy of new hairstyles would do wonders. Height/weight sliders would be great! An option to display a different type of armor than what you are wearing, Say there's a rogue who loves Defias armor. If they obtain the whole set, let that be an unlocked suit that they can don whenever they like. Even if they are running about in full Darkmantle, they will look like they want to. They will also be easier to pick out in a raid, as they have more options for their level. Disable this ability for PvP and dueling.
Meh. I like two hundred and eighty different types of pie. However, I don't seem to complain too loudly when only three kinds are offered at an event. Seeing that someone thought to bring whipped cream, caramel sauce and/or ice cream for the pie certainly makes the limited choices of pumpkin, cherry and apple more livable though.
The Burning Crusade doesn't seem to be that thoughtful in this regard. Having socketed items does not change the shape of this cookie cutter one bit. Am I bad for still wanting a cookie?
Faction grind, instant grinds, and BG grinds .. They took the "play" out of the game at the end IMHO and made it one big grind.
I love the idea of epic stats being in diff area's other than DPS, and i play a rogue .. they could shorten cool downs etc, lots of areas to make them desirable for the diff class's.
The end game is so bad that i just found myself making new characters so i could enjoy "playing" the game again .. did find that i really liked warlock a lot though .. and i know a lot of people will read this and think, I just needed to get into a good guild, I belonged to a good guild, we ran instances 4 times a week, and sundays; all the way up to AQ20, and was working on AQ40 .. we owned Ony and others .. (was even on a PVP server) when we were not doing instances or grinding faction, almost everyone was doing an ALT .. why, because there is no other fun content for a level 60 to do !
I dont see or hear anything new with this expansion, shame, all I see is more of the same, lots of Instancing. What they have proposed wont bring me back; and I'll admit, its been the most fun game Ive playd to date, just the worst endgame Ive played to date.
what about talent/skill/power/etc options for customization? where there's too many choices for there TO be a cookie cutter build?
WoW and other MMOs with limited customization features do it for a reason. Too bad none of the geniuses on this board has grasped that though. Pity.
WoW has very limited character and armor customization because it's meant to have upwards of 100 characters(players and/or NPCs) in close proximity. Now if you had all those fancy facial features like nose length, or chin width or 18 different types of ear hair it would bog down your computer like no tomorrow. Blizzard even vastly downgraded the graphics of nearly everything from the original closed beta so that older or less powerul computers would have few problems running it. You don't get 7 million subscribers by making it so your game can only be played by hardcore performance nuts. Limiting customiztion was just good busines sense.
The most idiotic thing about that editorial was the comparison to Guild Wars. Yikes.
Epic raid gear is meant for ::gasp:: epic raids and NOT and I repeat NOT PvP. You get epic raid gear so you can fight bosses than can hit for 20,000 damage and have 3 million hit points. PvP is just merely a side effect. When an editor says that epic raid gear is meant solely for PvP there is something wrong and I don't mean with WoW. Take your personal vendettas else where.
there ISNT any character real customization to speak of. sure they do a good job to make it look like theres customization, but besides the ui, there just isnt.
character appearance basically 5 different values to play with, with 5-10 choices for each value, if you can call them choices. skin color is a joke honestly, do you want to be this yellow green orc or this bluish green orc? the facial/head hair styles are nice looking i will admit, but then poor helmet clipping issues throws it out the window. either your hair clips thru the helm, or helms will make hair vanish all together, even if the helm isnt covering that part, ie my bearded dwarf loses his bead when he put on a foot-ball style helmet. the different facial ring placements on women arent noticable in the game, and to top it off, there not even a height/weight option of any sort. clonecraft ftw.
character build customization the talents in wow just arent deep enough to have any sort of individualism what so ever. sure it looks like a huge buffet of options to tailor your character just so, but after playing you realize that many of these talents arent that great, some are just plain pointless, while others are almost mandatory. whether you want to or not, almost every player is forced into one of a few "cookie cutter" builds for that class. since some builds are actually "better" than others, coupled with the changes bliz has made over the past couple years that have killed off certain builds, theres really only 3 choices max per class. more clonecraft.
phat lewtz loot is as bad as character builds. your build dictates the loot you go after, and then its just a constant grind to get that perfect set put together. heres the kicker tho, its the same damn set everyone else with your build is going for. when a new instance is added to the game then the "dream set" changes, and everyone goes after that set instead. the end result is the majority of the population look the same, as theyre wearing the same armor, carrying the same weapons. since you cant even change height/weight of your character, it just makes the whole 'everyone-looks-alike' syndrome that much worse.
again, character customization doesnt exist in wow imo. hopefully this will change in bc, i can only hope.
yes it looks like nothing but me whining about wow, and yet i still play the stupid game.
I dont really dont get the drama about customisation of your character. Who really cares if some of us look the same in armor? Isn't the point that they have made items recognisable which makes more sense. The mention that all players of a certain class and in the same guild look the same makes me wonder what type of guild you are in. I would think most guilds are working on dungeons where most players haven't completed the set, if you are all in tier 1 gear and look the same perhaps its time for your guild to move on to BWL? :P
I read another post in this thread where the guy suggested this was a whine and tbh it does kind of read that way. The complaint about being beat by people in better gear makes little sense to me too. It is imperative that when we reach level 60 everyone is not on an equal par, otherwise why carry on? Full epic gear probably gives the same advantage as 2-3 levels over a blue geared player and so it should or we would all stop and get bored at level 60. Again if the grind to get that gear was not made difficult then everybody would have it and there would be little point in carrying on.
It kinda seems that on the one hand you want to be unique (in the way u look) but on the other u want everybody the same (as far as gear goes)...hmnn is sounding like a whine for whine sake.
Talents, well you paint a pretty dim view, and i think some classes are limited to maybe only 1-2 routes and healing classes in particulalrly have certain specs demanded of them by guilds. For solo play though I think they are more than sufficient and can give 2-3 completely different playing styles, multuply that by the choice of 9 different classes and is enough in my opinion.
Now the above may sound like Im one of the 'stop having a go at wow, i love it brigade', im not, in fact im bored to death of it and desperately waiting for something new and good to come out. I've tried Eve (zzzzz) and a couple of others lately but it's nice to be starting a new game when everyone esle is rather than 2 years behind.
In my opinion whats is wrong with wow is the need to be in a guild to obtain them epics, the guilds become less about fun and collectively playing together and more about gaining items. The top end guilds on servers rape the average guilds for players as soon as them average guilds have given players a few tier 1 epics. Some players come in and guild jump and within 3/4 weeks of turning 60 are in Naxx guilds...whats so hard about that grind? Rewarding people with no loyalty and poor attitudes with quick epics.
And the pvp now is a joke, i guess i've been lucky as i ranked a warrior to 14 and mage to 13 in the good old days. Now almost every time i join a bg solos for a little fun theres a 'fixed' group opposite and absolutely no chance to win. I think that may be addressed in TBC. But why havent premade groups been paired against each other before? Why cant u join as a random and expect to play against randoms? I have no idea....it's just bad design. The only route to epics before as a semi-solo player was through the pvp system, and now that's been made impossible.
Personally i'm watching this space, as no doubt a lot of wow addicts are. New games due out soon should try bloody hard to be out before TBC finally hits the stores. There's a hell of a lot of people looking for something else to play since its pointless searching for better gear in wow until TBC, the trouble is if nothing new and inspiring comes out beforehand we will all end up giving TBC a chance. No doubt another few months of wow addiction followed by end game dissapointment will follow.
At nowhere in my original posting did I mention raiding. The editorial complains about an imbalance in gear at the end game. This complaint is further developed stating that some players will never have a chance to defeat other players. Thus this isolates the end game down to one on one PvP. I didn't say that, I simply pointed out that this was an overbroad generalization and completely ignored what could be done at end game. And quite frankly, it really doesn't matter what percentages you pull out of your hat about what activities players engage in at end game because again it is a discussion of what you can do versus how you choose to limit yourself.
You were obviously an individual that built up a lot pre-release expectations that were not satisfied. Welcome to the wonderful world of Artistic Creativity meets Business Funding Model. We all expect that MMOGs will continue to evolve as the games age, such as the changes you pointed out with the Battlegrounds. However, every game has some fundamental systems that are far too cost prohibitive to change. Completely changing the character creation system would have deep ramifications for the game. But rather than attempting to understand the far reaching effects such a change would have, you would rather express your dislike for 'Kaplan' and continue on in your naive perspective that developers can make any change at any time and don't have corporate mandates to which they must also answer.
Finally, I am not disputing that many WoW characters visually appear similar. I am not disputing that WoW's end game is focused on loot. And I am not saying that WoW is the best game on the market as I believe the 'best' game on the market is the one the individual enjoys playing thus this could be different for every individual you meet. What I am saying is that too much time is spent opining about why Title X stinks rather than accepting that it simply isn't the game for you. As long as several million people are paying to have an account, Blizzard will continue to see this as an endorsement that their product does meet the needs of a large enough customer base for them to continue to support what is already there.
Get over it and move on.
Lack of graphic custumization is indeed a problem in WoW. It is annoying when I can't tell one NE druid from the other. And sure I would like to be able to look more unique. On the other hand, I have never seen any char that looked exactly like mine. Sometimes the gear is quite alike, but then the weapons are different. Some ppl have their helm and cape turned on, some don't. More personal options would be nice though. Nice to see two new races in TBC. (although the mmorpg podcast suggested that there was only ½ new race:P)
Talents seems a bit underrated in this editorial. As a paladin I can change between many builds, and they do change the game for me. I am not required to spec a certain way to join raids and if ppl are, then they can find a different guild. A friend of mine is playing rogue, warrior and mage. He changes talent-spec frequently, since for him the spec matters a whole lot. There is more than 1-2 great builds for every class!
are you the person that works for wow that has the murlock for your avatar on your forums? the logic in your posting reminds me a lot of that *person*.
i'd really like to know what exactly you're trying to post, because it doesn't make a lot of sense... it's like you said, "jojo, your mama has a job and so does mine!" and it's supposed to be an insult.
wow is the largest and most horrid example of a grindfest for a western game that's out atm.
l2r.
Damien7 needs a wowwy pop I'm thinking.
But seriously, these so called "editorials" are nothing more the glorified forum posts, which is to say a waste of bandwidth.
Seriously, marking them as a feature is insane and completly shafts the value of this zomg-new-screen-shot news site.
customization in WoW is alomost nil - you can choose your head's appearance, but who can see that when geared up?
About the gear being over the top, I strongly disagree. Gear is another form of levelling, it is good to have hard fought for gear that makes a real difference. Balance between high level gear and low level gear is just silly; why go through the effort to get the good stuff if it doesn't make a difference?
I say this hating the grind and not much liking the raiding, which, imo, is another form of grinding. The difference I would like to see is that WoW provides us solo-lovers with ways to get high level gear, ways that do not involve doing the same quest again and again.
Btw, I have 2 L60 characters neither of which has gone beyond having green gear with some blues, but I'm still glad to have epic-geared peoples able to kick my butt :)
– noun
1. An article in a newspaper or other periodical presenting the opinion of the publisher, editor, or editors.
2. A statement broadcast on radio or television that presents the opinion of the owner, manager, or the like, of the station or channel.
3. Something regarded as resembling such an article or statement, as a lengthy, dogmatic utterance.
You have to take them for what they are. It's merely the opinion of someone who works at the site. Not everyone will agree with them, but isn't that the beauty of it all? These editorials stir up a lot of conversation with valid points on both sides and gets the community involved in debate.
Blizzard says: "here is how you'll play [raids] and here is what you'll loot [class loot]" dumb lazy and restrictive in my opinion.
*shrug*
I'll buy BC 'cause it's the only thing out there but when something remotely on par with WoW that doesn't require endless PvE grinding to be able to PvP on a remotely even playing playing field comes along me and wife will wave goodbye and not look back. (AoC, W.A.R., ???)
Btw, reading the headline I thought this would be about customizing appearance etc. and couldn't really wrap my head around the concept of WoW and actual choices but then I read the piece and of course it was WoW and gear which is really all it is about.
I am amazed at your remarkable ability to recite as fact what I play and what I know when such statements were never made by me. Couple this with the depth of your behind the scenes knowledge of the why's and how's that a gaming company is making their changes and you truly do excel at achieving one of the highest ranks of whiney forum hate puppets.
Despite the fact that you are better than most 'haters' in your command of vocabulary, it still doesn't mask the fact that your statements are filled with assumptions, unsubstantiated conclusions and a narrow perspective that is driven simply by your emotional response to a video game. I do not feel that I am superior to you, as you state in your post, I just refuse to resort to attacking you personally and would rather stay focused on the argument, logic statements and possibilities that are overlooked.
What really makes me laugh is the fact that on many occassions in many places writing I have done has been highly critical of Blizzard. But that is a different discussion. For the sake of this thread nothing you have said changes what I first wrote about the joke that this editorial is and the fact that the vocal whiners feel a sense of entitlement about how a game should be changed rather than finding a different title that may be more suited to satisfying their complaints.
This will be my last post on this thread so you may have the last word as you strike me as the type of person that needs to do that.
Amen to that Damian7. Its amazing how so many fanbois try to use smoke and mirrors to disprove what is right in front of their faces. If a game mechanic is working, you don't change it period, customer complaints or not. You only change things if there is a real problem, such as subscriber losses or customer complaints that number in the thousands creating very bad public press (reducing potential subscribers). While I think they're taking too small steps, they are taking steps to change the formula. Whether it will be enough to keep a large part of their subscriber base is yet to be seen.
They already lost me months ago and I'm sure I wasn't and won't be the only one. I won't be coming back till they reward all play styles equally. If I can't get epic gear solo / small group, instance / non-instance, raid / non-raid, then this game has nothing to offer me. The same goes for any MMO that uses this outdated and elitist paradigm. Its hard to imagine any subscriber base paying a developing company to treat even a small portion of their patrons like second class citizens, let alone the large percentage they abuse now. Its sad, its disgusting and it has to change, not just for WoW, but for future MMO's to come.
I played SWG from release to right after JTL when i couldnt complete a space mission because of a bug and i lost interest. Anyway i digress, In swg you could customize your face down to the frecklels, but all combat classes wore pretty much the exact same gear once you could afford it leaving the non-coms to wear the fancy stuff, unless you were just walking about town and not planning on pvping at all. So what you have is a bunch of custom faces running around in helms all covered up.
I played COH from launch for about a year, and yes it is the most customizable game out there as far as looks. But as far as spells, it was all the same crap. And as far as the poor blasters with rifles that could not (and still cant from what i gather) be replaced. So yes i LOOKED different but my playstyle was very similar to 100 other people on my server.( In addition at end game there was nothing to do other than farm/buy more enhancements so you could do.... something im sure)
I played EVE and all i will say is .................................. I know alot of people like this game but you have got to be kidding me when people start spouting about SKILL in EVE, TIME levels you up in that game and there is very limited customization until you have invested a exteneded amount of time (and no not just in-game time, but time sleeping, maybe you were watching a movie, it doesnt matter cause you were gaining SKILLS!) I dont know about endgame in EVE cause i was so dangerously close to gouging my eyes out after my 10 day trial that i couldnt stand it. But you are still going to be in the same ship that 100 other people are going to be in. (Though i will give them that its forgivable in a game like this since you can technically be part of a squad) Meh to eash tier own.
In addition to those games i have pretty much tried every mmo out there (eq1,eq2,Ryzom, GW, anarchy online, god even Planetside, FFxi, RF :( , and a whole slew of others i cant even remember at this point. I just wanted to clarify this before i went on to my main point to try to prevent flames like gawd play other games or some crap.
Now ill get to the meat of my point. I play wow and i wanted to hate it when it was coming out. When i got into the character customization i WAS very dissappointed, this feeling of course didnt last long due to the fun leveing grind and the fact that the game was very fun to start out with. Through the 1-60 process you rarely if ever see another character with the exact same items as you which is nice. So once you hit endgame raiding is where Mr. Fuller's point of Sameness Set Pieces comes in and where i find wow has done something that no other game has.
As an example We have two Tauren warriors in our guild we will call them Tank 1 and Tank 2, both have the exact same visible pieces of armor(not counting trinkets, rigns, etc.) but the demeanor of the people that play the characters is completely different, and in that i see 2 completely different tauren warriors when i look at them.
This is obviously purely a mental thing and may be restricted to just me. But in the sameness that blizzard created they have forced me to look beyond the gear of my guildie and his toon and to see how is play style and attitude effect the way i see and feel about this person.
Meh well that is my point, sorry for the rambling..... Off to get food.
it'd be nice if they'd at LEAST have crafters able to tint armors. supposedly there's going to be the diablo-style socketing? that's a way to customize armor.
but, i just wish there were more talent trees. so that it'd be impossible to just have a couple of *have to build* cutters. but, guess that's asking for too much, i mean, after two years, they reskinned night elves and orcs, couldn't be bothered to make new classes, and said "look, our expansion has flying mounts". big whoop.
where's housing? where's guild housing? where's that guild level stuff that eq2 has? i mean, heck, kaplan stole raiding from eq cuz that's all he and his dark sith master do, why not steal housing and guild levels? or even a take on AA (alternate advancement)?
i hate to say it, but if UO ever breaks down and finally gets a new graphics engine, i'm willing to bet a LOT of people are going to flock there. even with the semi-nerfed pvp, uo has a TON of things in it that other games aren't even trying to do. everything from the pets, to treasure hunting, to the fish tanks, fishing, craftables, completely customizable housing, farming/breeding plants and a laundry list of things to do that you never see in other games.
please don't compare fishing in uo to fishing in wow though. never seen a sea serpent or sunken ships found in wow from fishing/treasure hunting/sos bottles/etc.
it's sad when you can look fondly at a game that's 9+ years old and say "man, if only they'd finally go thru with it and redo the graphics engine..."
A bit off topic but about the Raid in wow, I never played eq up enough to find out what the raids were like in that game.(mainly becausse i couldnt stand the shabby graphics and weird interface, ya i came in late with eq when there were other/better things around.) But coming from running a 150 player SWG guild on Bloodfin (The Sons Of Sith, in case anyone remembers us) where we would have 70 people online with virtually nothing to do but pvp for nothing with also no negative to dying after the second patch, or *try* to farm overpopulated Krayt Dragons, 3 years later and a plethora of other boring/unintersting mmo's WOW comes out and you can actually use 40 people to do something and its fun.
Normally someone will make the point that yes raiding is fun maybe the first time, but doing it over and over again is a pain in the ass. Well oddly enough i have never played a mmo where you didnt really just do the same thing over and over again regardless of what it was. All mmo's have this even the Cancer Curing Luchemia Cleansing Holy Grail of Mmo's EVE(which i find is way overrated and extensively boring, though i understand the reason its entertaining to people). What i like about wow is even though ive done aq40 200 times, the guild interacts differently every day of the week, depending who is on and in the run, and that is why i play mmos and not sprpg's mainly.
In Coh when i was almost max level i saw the first max level character on our server, so i asked him, what do you do now that you are max level? He says to me "Not sure, thinking about rerolling." It wasnt a week later that i quit that game. What is the point of getting max level if you cannot further improve your character after that? CoH tried to do this with Enhancements and weird semi impressive visual effects, but these are still limited and you run into another hero who has the same fancy visual effect. (also regarding CoX's endless* customization, even with the most horrendous gear and color combos i still ran into people that looked almost exactly like me)
So i guess it just all comes down to what it is that makes you appreciate a game at end game and how far are you willing to extend the umbrella of sameness. Alot of hate is thrown at WOW on this website, about how its just a copy blah blah blah, and though this may be partially true. If it's a copy of the best aspects of the some the best games does that not make it a good game? At least by some standards?
Bah again sorry for the ramblings, Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaally bored at work. An no im not a wow fanboi, i just happen to enjoy the game and the social aspects of it.
1. eye candy. useless stuff, if i look like everyone else that is my race/class combo... who cares? no one cares what you look like, but they will pay attention to you when you melt some faces. eye candy just limits the # of ppl that can play the game. no one likes lag
2. he assumes that there is a "best build". ill agree that as WoW stands now you have a "best build". if you are an ice mage you are like every other ice mage out there. but as i fool around with the new talent trees i see that it is really hard to focus on a build.
HUGE NOTE SKIP IF YOU REALLY DONT WANT TO READ A HUGE THING ON BUILDS. note most of these are pvp ideas... raiding ftl
warlok. i thought to run a 19/21/21 build, drain tank with ruin. plausable? yes. next i saw the fel guard abilities and the huge buffs to demo so a demo build with nightfall. does it work? yes. night fall with full destruction to get something sick like 5 insta casts (one is a .5 sec cast but w/e heh). yes. is any one of those builds better than the other? probably not. i personally settled on a 30/31/0 build, pure suvivability build. obviously i wont be the best dmg dealer.
rogue. ty blizz for the sub buff :) full sub is a viable option imo. reason : with the addition of more melee characters (the hybrids are finally hybrid) ghostly strike with... setup is it? would work, obviously not agaist warriors, that would hurt. basically what you could do with a sub build is go down to imp sprint, get +hit all that stuff, then you are unstopable, in a very snarelike sense. do warlok dots piss you off when you could vanish? 41 talent ftw. also with the 15% agi and the outta stealth thingy and the atk power increase you arent completely gimped for dmg. we know that combat and asn work.
shaman. resto builld = god mode. i used to be able to heal tank in pvp with 4 guys on me.... now? heals cant get inturrupted basically. you could sit for days spamming lesser heal and no one would kill you, allowing a flag cap usually heh.
elemental - same good stuff with double casts (wondering still if the first crit will the second automatically?)
enhancement - DW FTW! recent info says that dw will have elemental wep buffs on both weps
pally - ...... ya l2heal. have freakin plate for a reason. pallys just need to give up on the dps thing, tho that vid about the holy smiter had my eyes bugged out. would link but cant find it again
warrior - again, full arms full fury, half fury half arms, maybe some prot, s'all goood.
priest - ehhh, they did manage to make 41 holy or dis worth while..... i guess...
hunter - beast build viable, suvival very nice
druid - zomg trees! wooot. obviously a good mix, i like moonkin, some friends going crazy on the feral changes and looking at resto it looks good for everything other than pvp...... like always (freaking screw raiding)
mage - options.... arcane shatter build (no im not explaining, but lets just say that i think i can get 3 to 4 k crits 1.5 sec casts.... MWAHAHA.... thats w/o AP and trinkets, that was up around 6k
END INSANELY LONG NOTE ON BUILDS.
for those that desided to skip that part basically what i was saying it that they did a good job with the talent trees by making it into teirs, so you build a build by picking up an idea, like shatter, or nightfall, stuff like that.
other than that, i hope that they studied guild wars in the last 2 years, especially the part where i can spend 2 min and have the best gear in the game. obviously not the best idea for wow, but pvpers should have the best pvp gear. i totally agree that pvp does need to be player dependant not gear dependant. i for one wish that raiding was a fun thing to do, not for the gear. it would b really nice to raid, say youve done it, then never even consider farming it.
See, I knew this coming into WoW when I first played back when it came out. I knew the customization options were gonna be low, I knew the high end game was going to be about raiding, but it didn't matter to me. I'm not a raider nor will I ever reach anything remotely close to what some players have, but what kept me playing WoW was the world PvP.
It had the best world PvP I'd seen in any game. Granted, DAoC had better PvP mechanics, but WoW incorporated it into a world so well. I remember a couple months after the game came out the huge raids we would have on the capital cities, and on the Xroads in the Barrens. It didn't really matter what you looked like because we were all fighting for a common purpose. We were also fighting people and NPC's alike.
Battlegrounds and dishonourable kills have all but taken away World PvP, and with it the fun that myself and I'm sure plenty of other people had with the game. In fact right now i'm playing on the Haomarush server, alliance side on the guild The Resistance. Were trying to bring back world pvp, and on the horde side Total War is doing it. Come check it out if you guys are interested.
Anyway, I'll prolly leave for Warhammer Online, but Blizzard could have gotten a couple more dollars outa me if they hadn't destroyed World pvp.
They're taking out dk's???!
Okay, and when we're done taking away all the damage a melee class can do let's let all those mages and locks, with +750-900 spelldamage crit your for 4k damage anyways.The problem is not balance, and if you've been talking to people in expansion beta the stats at 70 are RIDICULOUS compared to now, according to my friend in beta the game is no longer about burst damage, every fight takes time AND skill, and even with an unbalanced playing field, hell the lvl 61 greens in tbc are more powerful than most MC epics. What's to say epics in TBC won't be as unbalanced as now, also with scaling raid difficulties virtually anyone can get together a 25 man and at least do the easier versions of raids to gear up. 25 man raids will be alot easier to set up than 40 mans for most guilds and most likely guilds will be running 2 simulataneous raid if they have 50 online.
also, the blues and greens in the expansion will make your lvl 60 epics look like trash. but what about the lvl 70 epics? basically with the info that fan sites have released from beta says that they are capped at 67 right now which leads me to believe that they havent started raiding.
so the only thing that these uber blues tells us is that they are leveling the playing field for those that didnt spend 10000000000 hrs getting geared out. it doesnt say a thing that it wont happen again at 70. there have been absolutely no garuntees that a hard mode guild wont just melt your face in pvp. absolutely no evidence that shows that the pvp gear is comparable to anything raided for. so basically unless blizzard changed in the past 2 yrs you will have about 3 to 4 months of good pvp b4 you get the uber leet guild melting your face. which isnt fun, and why would raiding gear ever be better than the pvp gear for pvp? doesnt make a bit of sense to me.
Therefore even though it is a small census one would assume the numbers at 60 are very directly in favour of raiding.
in my opinion; if I could take out someone who spent months working on pve, with my greens and blues I would be pissed at the game itself. In the expansion one can grind their own gear through pvp and pvp gear has always at least closely scaled with pve gear, in alot of cases better than all but the very best pve gear. This game isn't a single player game if you want to PVP effectively you need an organized group, pugs don't work, and if you want to PVE effectively you obviously need a guild worthy of the instance you want to do. As much as you bitch and complain this is an MMO, just cause you think it's a waste of time to lock yourself in a room and farm gear so you can be better than the next schmoe doesn't mean everyone doesn't enjoy raiding.
I love raiding, I enjoy the teamwork I enjoy progression through end game, and I especially enjoy getting a new piece of phat lewt and pwning some noob in the face with it. Like any other MMO it takes effort to get to the top and if you can't cut it that's your fault.
that a game requires you to grind endless amounts of npc to be good in pvp is crazy, pvp gear should be equivalent in stats to the end game stuff, and better for pvp (ie more sta)
I'm so damn sick and tired of hardcores saying they're the ones who will stick with a game and buy all of the expansions. If one MMO would just have the balls to actually cater to casuals, they would see we are just as loyal as any "living in mom's basment" freak.
The only thing necessary in these games is the entertainment value. All of these ridiculous arguments about "work" and "earning" your place in a game is a crock. You want to make a difference in the world, get a job or be a volunteer for the homeless, but don't turn these games into a job and that's exactly what raiding does.
You hardcores have no more right to a game than anyone else. You are not entitled to have it play your way. We pay a monthly subscription fee too and we have a right to be catered to as well. So screw your "hardcores deserve the best" crap. Get out of your mom's basement and get a life.
So you're saying that Blizzard should give you items for free? If you want to have the same items as every other player play an FPS like CS:S. WoW is about being prepared. Engineering is prep for pvp, gear is prep for pvp, if I was stuck at 60 without gear upgrades what would be the point of playing? To pvp with no advancement of gear? Getting gear through any means; pvp, pve w/e has a sense of accomplishment with it. Oh and with the new honour system pvping on a casual schedule is viable for getting gear, as well as the fact that by updating the pvp gear in patch 1.11, or 1.12(don't remember) they obviously want to keep the pvp gear at least competitive with the pve gear. It's not like Blizz is saying Raid or don't pvp, Blizz is saying if you raid and pvp you'll do well, but that's hard so if you just pvp you'll still do decently. Even for a casual player it's only gunna take like a month to farm the stuff for a HWL weapon. And I'm sure just as there is T4 and T5 in pve there will be an updated pvp set for 70 I'm sure.
And my final point; Why should someone who has a life and spends it doing something other than WoW be catered to specifically in WoW? Should Blizz give bonuses to people who donate money to the red cross? What are you freaking thinking? It's a video game for entertainment, if you don't put effort into it your character will suck, that's what MMO implies, it's "COMPETITIVE" Therefore there has to be a way to advance beyond the other players you are competing against, if you want pvp balanced entirely around skill I've heard GuildWars is the game for you. All of you claiming that you should do just as well in pvp as hardcores just have a severe case of jealousy for the guy who always pwns you in his T2/equivelants and his ass'kandy or whatever else.
oh and BTW Teamwork > gear. Get vent -> Get a group of friends who know how to play -> Get some BG strats through your heads, and healers -> Pwn whoever you want -> Quit complaining that your character sucks cause you don't know how to play.
P.S. T0.5 was directly aimed at casual players, so it's not like Blizz is shunning you noobs alot of the T0.5 gear was pretty good.
Ok i am not bashing wow i'll throw that out there first, i play as well from time to time, there are a few things that make casual gamers love wow and a lot of die hard gamers hate it and like it
1 It is sucessful because of the neame true, it is also sucessful because it caters to the masses, it is simple to learn, its graphics are not over the top they are console lvl making it acessible to those with low end computers and the familiarity of console graphics look, And these are the same reason a lot of hardcore gamers hate wow, compared to looks with other games it is ''lame'' it is ''cartoony'' , the chars customization is nill, there is no real challenge in the end, why raid here when i can raid something that looks very nice and is a bit more challenging,
I am sure to get flamed, i was just trying to bring a dble perspective as why some people like wow and some people dont.
I like it, yes, i like it because a lot of people i know that play it in r/l i tag up with them as they dont have the expenses to get a nice gaming rig to run some of the more detailed games.
Just find a casual guild. Not all guilds require 75% raid attendance to push through high end PVE. As far as pure hardcores there are about 10 in my guild, then about 60 casual who raid most nights a week and about another 25-30 who raid less than 3 times a week and in 6 months we've pushed from ZG to Battleguard Sartura in AQ40. Raiding doesn't require giving up your life, it just takes a group of like minded players.
I don't play this game anymore, I quit months ago. Secondly, I'm not interested in what you hardcores want. You've been getting it your way for a very long time. Its time for dev companies to get off their collective asses and come up with games that are fun and reward other play styles than those who raid or prefer to sit in front of their computers 8 hours straight. 7.5 million is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the sheer millions that play yahoo and msn games and the other countless millions who don't play computer games at all, but could be enticed to do so. The potential is phenomenal and yet they continue to do things the same way ever frigging game that comes out in the MMO market.
Can anyone tell me how many of those 7.5 million are happy with the end game in WoW? Wasn't there some number floating around that only 20% of all players actually raid which was stated during some Blizzard roundtable? If those numbers are true, how do you justify the current state of the game? How many of those 20% raid because they think its fun versus those who do it because there is nothing else to do? Why should they focus so much attention on such a small portion of their player base and why should they get the best rewards in the game? Your hardcore play style is no more worthy of this specialized reward system over that of solo / small group / questing / crafting styles.
For some people, raiding isn't about time constraints, its about play style, its about being tired of the same old paradigms that are not only getting outdated and boring, but are unfair to a lot of players. So get off your high horse and realize that your play style isn't the only one worthy of the developer's attention nor is it the only one worthy of the best gear in the game.
The devs obviously envision WoW as a game where you work hard for your items and gear, and therefore the game is based around working hard for gear to be competitive. What the devs decide to do hardly concerns someone who doesn't play and hasn't played for months, if you "don't care" then stfu.
Actually, it does concern me and others like me. For one, the game up to 55 does not require work, the work part only kicks in when raiding becomes the only venue for advancement. The game is casual for a good part of its life cycle. I don't care if they have raiding in the game, I only have issue with them rewarding only raiders with the best gear. Its unfair and it completely undermines the casual 1 - 55 game that came before it. I am still a potential customer and there is a good likelyhood, considering the other posts that mirror mine, that I'm not the only one who has taken issue with their current "raid or die" paradigm. So it would behoove Blizzard to change, and guess what, they are making changes in the upcoming expansion, almost expressly due to complainers such as myself. They are adding non-raiding activities to the endgame, but the changes aren't large enough to suit me since they still give the best rewards to raiders, so I will continue to voice my opinion as long as I desire to do so.
The fact of the matter is that voicing opinions on boards doesn't just affect WoW, it is read by others, even other developers and it can make an impression on them to make changes in the future for any MMO. Currently, online boards are the only viable method of getting our opinions heard, so you better get used to us hanging around and having our say.
If your only comeback is to tell others to STFU, then maybe you should remember what country this game resides in. As long as you're going to play a US game, you're going to have to deal with the voice of dissent. Its because of people like us that the genre moves forward and evolves, if people didn't complain about the "status quo" things would never change at all.
There is nothing hard about Naxx or any of the other raiding instances, its all about time investment. If you want something hard, get a frickin job, smart ass. These are suppose to be entertainment software, not second jobs. The equalizer is the monthly fee. They have no right to charge casuals for content that only harcore's enjoy. Our play style is just as deserving of a meaningful reward system. You want to work for your gear, that's your business. I just want to be rewarded for the way I like to play the game. I pay 15 bucks a month, I expect to get equal representation, otherwise, set up elite servers that charge 39.99 a month so you can get your elite raiding gear and screw any other play style.
There's no point in arguing with you, you and your raiding buddies feel entitled and there's nothing any other player can say to change your egotisitcal beliefs. Lets just hope the developers will get smart and realize they can't make us second class players and get away with it. Either start treating us equally or start expecting more fallout as players get fed up with this elitists mentality that is so pervasive in MMOs today. As the industry matures, players will become less likely to accept being pissed on and move on to something else. The Golden Age of the MMO caste system will be their downfall if they don't straighten up their act. It has become so expensive to create and maintain these games anymore, they can't afford to be niche. They will have to appeal to a larger audience or investors will stop investing with such small returns.
Wow, that must have hit a nerve. You sound like one of those spoiled brats who throws a tantrum because their mommy tells them to share their toys with a sibliing. I get the picture, you don't like to share, period. Its obvious that raiders get some kind of false sense of superiority with the current paradigm. You think your way of playing is the only one that is challenging and that its the only path worthy of the best equipment. I hate to break it to you, but there is nothing special about raiding, nor is there anything special about raiders. You invest the time, but you do not hold the market on skill. Well, we casuals also invest the time, maybe not in one sitting, but we will eventually spend as much time in game as you do and yet our play style will never have recourse to the good gear. You think that's fair, I don't and I'm not alone in that belief.
Thank God not everyone is as narrow minded as you are, although many of the dev companies seem to agree with your opinion currently, but they're learning that it isn't okay to alienate any segment of their player base. It may take a while, but eventually, you raiders will have to deal with the fact that you aren't God's gift to the MMO industry and that casuals / non-raiders are just as loyal and just as likely to spend money on expansions as long as we are being catered to. We outnumber you and sooner or later we will get the lion's share of the best content a game has to offer. Mark my words, your days as the MMO top dogs are numbered.
Tell me all about it when you've found this game that caters to casuals exclusively, I'll be sure to skip that one. The new honour system is designed to give you rewards. Faction grinding gets you items, that are quite decent. There are plenty of ways to get good gear but raiding has been expanded upon hugely and therefore the other methods of gearing up have been left behind. Crafting is now based on patterns attained from raiding. But the bottom line is 3/4 of end game IS through 40 man raids(soon to be 25 mans) so you arethe one that chooses to skip what 3/4 of end game is all about. You're missing out not me. Blizzard's destruction of macros and mods is making me quit Wow permanently
I take it you call anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion a noob. I don't join guilds because they suck. I don't need the politics and infighting that goes with it, especially in a raiding guild. I'm glad to see you know how annoying a game can be. Many of us "noobs" don't raid because we find it annoying. It has absolutely nothing to do with ability and has everything to do with a lack of desire to sit in front of a computer for 4 to 8 hours straight. There is just something deeply disturbing about people who are willing to sit their fat asses in front of a computer for that long and not get paid for it.
Your lack of reading comprehension is par for the course. Raiders have never shown any consideration for other points of view. Its always some spiel about how anyone can join a raiding guild, even casually....blah....blah....blah. Once again, we don't want to raid, we want our play style to be rewarded. We want the developers to realize that raiding is not and should not be the only avenue for loot progression. Not only is the game currently only raid friendly at the end game, even when the expansion comes out, non-raiders will still have virtually no avenue outside of raiding in order to get the best gear. Even the PvP gear is going to be substandard to raid gear. Pretty ridiculous for a game that says you can PvP without raiding or PvE and be just as competitive, which is patently false. We're sick and tired of developers fostering a caste system within a freaking game. Our time investment is just as valueable as any raider's.
Raiders and non-raiders risk absolutely nothing but time in these games. I don't care what kind of death penaly they put in a game, it all boils down to time. How can you possibly argue that a raider's time is more important than any other's?
The PVP changes are targetting casuals by making it possible to attain epic gear with time spent over a period. There's not much else Blizz can do. As far as gearing up casually your choices are: Get into a good guild where you can raid casually, Rep grind for epic gear; like the pvp battlegrounds and various other factions as CC, or as of 2.01 pvp gain honour and tokens then buy items on your own time basis. Don't forget the fact that epic craftables in the expansion are going to roxxor your boxxors, and the mats required are mostly from the hard level instances, but I believe can still be done in small groups, cause of the scaling difficulties of dungeons.
Hmmm, lets see, raiders and hardcores blasting through the content if its made available to casuals. Who cares, they blast through the content already, at least this way, everyone gets a good shot at it. I don't give a damn if hardcores get it more easily, in the end, a casual game isn't about hardcores, is it. The whole argument is that you freaks have gotten it your way with every single MMO out there currently and its about damn time that some dev company got their collective asses in gear and do something for casuals for once and see it through to the end. As far as the difficulty of the content, I'm sorry, as a casual I'm not competing against hardcores and its not my concern that our content be just as hard as theirs in order to justify the rewards. There is no risk vs reward scheme in these games, its something the devs came up with to justify the gear gap. People only risk time in these games and guess what, hardcores and casuals waste time in them equally, hardcores in one sitting and casuals in several sittings. So, there is no justification for the reward gap.
If a hardcore invests 8 hours and has a decent chance at epic gear, then a casual who eventually invests 8 hours in a game should have the exact same chance to get epic gear. This is NOT the case currently in any MMO. I'm not a developer, nor am I getting paid for my advice, therefore it is not my responsibility to come up with ideas on how to change current paradigms, but it is THEIR job to listen to us if they want our money and it is THEIR job to come up with solutions to our complaints, yet again if they want to continue getting our money. Supply and Demand works both ways and sometimes companies and consumers forget that. If a game touts itself to be casual, then it should keep that focus for every single part of the game, God knows they do that for hardcore games. Making us feel second class in a game that is suppose to cater to us is criminal. I don't give a flying crap how you hardcores think it should go, this game wasn't suppose to cater to you and it didn't, at least till level 55. For them to change that formula at 55 and up is completely wrong and they should be ashamed and I hope it bites them in the ass, because that's the only way to make these companies learn from thier mistakes.
I don't need to come up with any ideas, I know what I like and what I don't like. I tell them what I don't like and its up to them to decide to do something about it. They're the paid professionals after all. If I made money off this crap, then you bet your bottom dollar I'd come up with solutions.
You hardcores whine just as much if not more than casuals, so give it a rest. You pricks always want things your way and we're getting fed up with it. Blizzard advertised their casual gameplay during development and during beta. It was not some kind of secret you seem to think it is. Even their advertisements in magazines and websites stated it was a great game for those who never played an MMO before (as in non-hardcore market). This also implies non-hardcore gameplay. Try to deny it if you want, it only proves how clueless you are. The game is very and I mean very casual friendly all the way up to level 55 and that cannot be refuted, even by the most noobish hardcore / raider out there. For them to suddenly change that formula for the last 5 levels of the game is a rip-off for casuals. There is not a single advertisement out there that states the end game is not for casuals nor does it state that raiding is the only avenue for advancement and yet it is exactly that. The change in gameplay phrase does not mean it should change from casual to hardcore, they should stay within the vision of the game and that WAS casual through and through.
Hardcores have no right to the best gear in the game, because this game wasn't made for them. It was made for casuals and PvP'ers and yet even PvP'ers don't get the best gear in the game. Yet again, you seem to think this game should be base lined off of hardcore play, meaning that the difficulty of the game and therefore its rewards should be based off of raiding. This is a fallacy since this was not suppose to be a raid centric game. Many interviews were given during development and during beta and it was adamantly stated that raiding would not reward people with the best gear. It would however reward them with unique gear that didn't give superior stats, but rather gave them a unique look such as particle effects. They turned this into a lie and with no explanation what so ever.
We casuals / non-raiders have a right to be pissed with how they changed the game to suit the minority. You raiders have all those other games out there that suit you perfectly, you have no right what so ever to come to this game, complain that things aren't playing out the way you want and causing change that is detrimental to a majority of the player base. You people need to piss off and play your EQ and FFXI and leave us the hell alone.
Yep, as much as I like WoW, I find the quest for gear a little overwhelming and am more than a little turned off by it. At first it was really fun but then I realized how very rare I would get the drop I wanted and the time invested didn't feel very rewarding. My friend on the other hand, will not rest until he completes his set of raid gear. I would consider neither of us casual players either.
So you're saying, if I may, that you have no valid reason against non-raid content other than this ridiculous excuse that its up to casuals to come up with ideas for non-raiding content. May I ask, who exactly gets paid for making these games. Why the hell should we be doing THEIR job? Why is it that MMO companies are the only businesses out there that expect customers to come up with ideas for them? When a customer makes a complaint about a product in the real world, they certainly don't turn in ideas to make the product better. Guess why? Its not their frigging job. If Blizzard and other companies want casual player patronage, then they need to start devising content that is just as rewarding and just as exciting as raiding content. They certainly have no problems coming up with raid content on their own, its not much of a stretch to believe these "professionals" can come up with decent non-raid content on their own too. But then, where would you get your excuses. You have not given any valid arguments that support this denial of content to non-raiders. Well, other than your typical epeen strokage that is.
You don't have a leg to stand on and neither do the developers. You do not advertise a game to be friendly to certain play styles only to deny them in the end and raise one above all the others. If they only want to truly reward hardcores, then it should be a hardcore game from beginning to end. Not this wishy washy crap they have now that draws many casuals in and then screws them over in the end game. WoW isn't the only game that does this, EQ2 is just as bad. It doesn't make it right just because a prescedent has been set. I get it though, its obvious that you and your kind prefer this kind of setup. You like the fact that you get exclusive content that the rest of us noobs help pay for. I suppose it helps make up for the self esteem issues you suffer in real life.
As I've said it's _YOUR_ playstyle that limits you from getting gear. Casual guilds exist. They raid at a casual rate. If you don't like "Raiding" That's your fault. That's part of the content. You're complaint is; "I don't like raiding because you have to be hardcore to raid." Which is not the truth, you can be casual AND raid. What your real complaint boils down to is this. "I'm too lazy to find a group of like minded players with whom I can experience endgame content at a casual pace." My guild (SEVEN) is working it's way through AQ40 with no more than 4 hours of raiding per night, but most people only stay in the raid for 2 hours, then other players take the spots as people have to leave. (people from different timezones make doing this especially easy.)
I agree that customisation could be alott better in WOW but to say that it might look strange or wierd spotting you in a crowd where most have the same gear is kinda pretty stupid to say , why? maybe some of you need to lok at our army's, besides ranks do you see them wearing alott of different clothing or do you see them wearing clothing that stands for their ranks, can someone tell me why this is normal and excepted in RL and why in a game as WOW that should not be normal??
I really get the feeling people turn on games these day's not for the fun of the game but merly for its content, they seem to forget fun and only focus towards non gamers stuff like calling stuff grind wich infact should be called collecting stuff to survive in the world you live (play) in, should we call our real life work "grind" now?
People that call others Twinks also such a non gamers word, i mean this is kinda the most stupid thing i see people saying especialy those that use those words on RP realms.
I told this many times People seem to forget they could use their own fantasy in games and i'm sure that alott of games would become much more fun instead of only doing what the crowd is doing or being able to Pwn someone. Games should be entertaining and if its not or not anymore its time to move on to another game.
Blizzard (regardless of thier commitment to the casual non-raider/non pvper lol) are forcing this game into one of two playstyles PvP (mainly in BG;s for honor marks or 'world' Pvp (i.e. grief everyone that doesn't Pvp) or raids there is some content outside this but that is there as a means to get to the two Blizzard preferrend 'endgames'. It's this shortsightedness that eventually will lead to Blizzard loosing a noticable chunk of its playerbase. Wether they will care or not is moot since they probably will still keep the Bnet diehards just because of their game.
There are several new and interesting games coming up in 2007 and I know for sure one of them will be good enough to get me to move from the blandness that is WoW.
So to avoid penalizing the raiders , you want to penalize the people who pay as much for the game yet cannot invest the time in large chucnks or have the misfortune to not be in one of the 10 - 20 competant raiding guilds or are not in the game for PvP , which by the way was an afterthought by Blizzard (and it shows). Yup this attitude is pretty typical of raiders, if you play so much perhaps Blizzard should start charging raiders and full time Pvp'rs a premium for all the content being developed just for them that the majority of the player base never gets to see.
I propose that you have to pay an extra 5$ per 4hour play session above 24hours in a week, plus entrance fees to each of the raid instances of $2.50 (just to pay for YOUR content).
Hardcore will always find ways to get ahead of everyone else what you suggest only penalizes the people who are in no position to abuse the system don't you think the hardcores should be the ones suffering the penalities ? or is that not fair ?
Oh and btw socketed items are not that overpowered, at least not from what I've seen, but I may be wrong
Let me get this straight, 5 people in a group does not constitute as "working together" to improve their characters? Only raiders corner the market on cooperative play? What about soloers, which I also do by the way. We have to make up for the lack of abilities that a group can bring to bear and yet in your eyes, we don't put any effort into the game? By the way, casuals group all the time, you'll have to come up with some better excuses, because you lack any credibility at this point. You have done absolutely nothing to further your belief system, nor have you given any valid arguments against casual player rights. I also notice you seem to be under the impression that hardcores / raiders constitute half of the player population. Despite the fact that it has been mentioned not only by Blizzard, but other third party consensus that hardcores are far and away outnubered by us noobs. Fiscally speaking, it makes no sense what so ever for MMO companies to cater almost exclusively to the smallest segment of the market, let alone the moral issues of segregation and discrimination against play styles that don't coincide with raiding.
By the way, do you even have any clue as to the numbers of level 60's that raid? How about the number of casuals that re-roll rather than play the dead end game that is raiding? Blizzard let it slip in an interview during one of their fan fests that less than 20% of all players world wide actually take advantage of the raid content. If this is truly the case, out of the horse's mouth mind you, why heck do you think you guys deserve the lion's share of the end game content? It takes a lot of gall for you to argue that raiders deserve the best rewards in the game. I guess only time will tell, but mark my words. These companies are getting greedier by the day and they won't be satisfied with current subscription numbers nor will they be satisfied with the current turn over rates common with these games. They WILL make changes and I bet you a dollar they won't be sticking with the current hardcore / raiding paradigm. Enjoy your hardcore leetness while you can, your days are numbered.