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Warhammer Online: Mark Jacobs on the WAR Delay
After yesterday's announcement that EA Mythic would be delaying the launch of their upcoming MMORPG Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood spoke with VP Mark Jacobs about the move.
Yesterday, EA Mythic announced that they would be delaying the launch of their upcoming MMORPG Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, until Fall of 2008. Reaction to the announcement has been somewhat mixed with some applauding the move in the name of a fully polished product, with others suggestion that the move may mean doom and gloom for the IP game. Yesterday, I had the opportunity to speak with EA Mythic VP Mark Jacobs about the move.
The first question that I asked Mark was whether or not this delay should be seen as a sign that their game is in some kind of serious trouble.
“Oh God no,” he responded in his usual candid way. He went on to tell me that if the game was actually in trouble, we would have been more likely to see one of two things happen. First, we would have seen changes at the company, most likely starting with Mark himself and second, EA wouldn’t have granted the time extension. Since everyone is still employed, and the delay was announced, we can assume that the game isn’t in trouble. In answering the question, Mark also pointed out that if the game were in trouble, it would be far more likely to go the way of EA Mythic’s last project, Imperator, which was “postponed indefinitely”.
While some out there may think that delays are nothing more than a developer’s way of showing disdain for their players (a position that I have never really understood), the reality is that while it’s a pain in the butt for players, it can be an expensive proposition for the development company, and for any partners who might be involved. In the case of EA Mythic with Warhammer, the company footing the bill for the delay is EA and the partner company (otherwise known as the licensee for the IP) is Games Workshop. With this in mind, I asked Mark to give us an overview of the process for getting their delay approved:
- The Warhammer team tells Mark that they think that there are going to be some issues in getting the game out on the due date.
- Mark and the team sit down and discuss the issue / issues and what could be done to resolve them in time to meet the deadline. This includes but is not limited to: bringing more people in to work on the project or cutting certain side features in favor of focusing resources on something more important. In short, what would it take in order for the team to make the date while still producing the quality of game that is their goal. In the case of this particular delay, they decided that the only thing to be done would be to push the game back.
- Mark then takes the issue to EA where he has a conversation similar to the one that he had with his dev team about whether or not there is anything to be done to get the game in on the date. Here, Mark stressed the good relationship that they have with their parent company. Once EA has given the go-ahead, it’s time to…
- Talk to the partners. In this case, the partner that I was asking about is Games Workshop, the company that actually holds the IP for the game and who also has to be answered to. It is interesting to note, for those folks who might be thinking that the delay was known about for much longer than we were told, that this particular phase of the process didn’t happen until the day before the announcement, so before Tuesday, even Games Workshop didn’t know that there would be a delay.
- That brings us to the final step of the delay: the announcement. A good deal of care generally goes into this kind of announcement, and this time was no exception. Upon making the announcement, two things happened (that I noticed). First, Mark posted on the Warhammer Alliance forums (the site that seems to be proxy home of the game’s forums), stating that he would be happy to answer people’s question, but that he had prepared a number of answers in advance (It’s a good list, check it out here). Second, the PR team got busy in scheduling interviews with news sites so that we could get our questions answered. In short, it appears, at least to my eyes, that they were trying to be as transparent as possible about this move that was sure to be controversial.
While the delay may have been necessary, the team at EA Mythic knew that there would be a number of people who would be upset by the move and Mark was as candid about the motivations as he tends to be about everything else. He told me that he would rather have people angry now about a delay than angry with the quality of the game after launch.
Next, I asked Mark whether or not the game’s unique beta process had contributed to the delay of the game. For those who might not be aware, WAR conducts its beta in an interesting way. The process is called “focus testing”, and consists of focusing its players in on one area of the game at a time rather than letting them run willy-nilly throughout the game. While this may be frustrating for players who had hoped to get some free play time in, it has been a boon for the developers, allowing them to focus their efforts and get concentrated feedback on different aspects of the game.
Mark told me that he thought that yes, this beta style did contribute to the delay, but that it is a good thing. In fact, Mark said that if they had had the time and resources (remember, they were an indie studio then), they would have done the same thing with Dark Age of Camelot.
The last question that I asked Mark was whether or not this new date was solid. The answer was a resounding “No”. “No date is set in stone,” he said (though he did say that he hoped that this date would be set in firmer mud than before. He went on to say that if a dev tells you a date is set in stone they are either very nearly complete, running out of money, or wrong.
“It’s hard to set a date far in advance,” Mark told me, “No matter how smart we think we are as developers, the players are smarter. Players will come up with ways to defeat what the developers are doing.” With that in mind, he told me that this in and of itself makes it difficult to predict when a game will be ready for release. So, in the end, the projected Fall 2008 projected launch date is just that… a projected date. In the end, with EA Mythic seeming to get the full support and confidence of EA and with both parties dedicating themselves to making the best possible product it really comes down to one simple idea: It’ll be done when it’s done.
I want it when its 100% done. Not a day before. Anyone whining about not buying the game, because of a pushed back date is childish.
Are people not going to buy GTA4, because it was delayed? No. Did people not buy Oblivion, because it was pushed back? No.
Anyone who has been a gamer for more than 5 years knows that every single game is pushed back. Especially the great ones.
I am still waiting for Oblivion to get to 19.99 - 30.00 before I bite.
I'm actually surpised that Mythic gave a launch date to begin with...a "when it's done " Would have served them better.
Just work on the game until it's done and just then release it, stop saying the game will released on a certain date and then delay it again and again, making people angry. It's better you work on the game and release a great product like Blizzard did instead of just working by dates, in the long run, if you want alot of money and success like Blizzard you have to create a game that actually will last and not only gain money just from the hype about it.
Although I'm screaming out for a decent new mmorpg I'd rather wait for a finished game than end up with the dross that was Dark and Light or the definately nowhere near finished Vanguard.
They are trying to give people some idea of when it's due out but obviously they are so commited to producing a quality product that they are not prepared to release it unfinished, this only makes me want to play it more. As with all IT projects delays are inevitable as it's so damn complex.
I've preordered my collectors edition. ;)
I'm guessing that this is good news for AoC, frankly, as now it will get a hefty head start over the other big MMORPG contender of 2008. Assuming WAR keeps to the new release date, I assume it will end up launching at about the same time as Stargate Worlds, which I also think may hurt them a bit.
Of WAR and Stargate, the latter MMO interests me more.
Am I disappointed that the game was delayed? Yes. Am I angry about it? No. There's plenty of other things to play.
Saying it would be released in Q2 2008 was not giving a date for release, but instead a time frame when they expected to be able to release. Just like saying Fall of 2008 could be Sept, Oct and maybe even Nov. That's not giving a set date but instead an estimate. Giving an estimate and then changing it is one thing, giving a specific date and then pushing it back is another.
Think about it like this, you take your car to the shop to get fixed and they tell you that it will be ready in 15 minutes because they know it'll make you happy. In 15 minutes they tell you that it'll take another 20 minutes and they keep doing that for two days. You'd be angry as hell! But if they are up front and say that they aren't sure how long it'll take but should be ready in a couple of days. They call you in a day and say it's going to take longer. You are upset but not near as upset as you were in the first scenario.
I respect them for not giving a specific date but instead an estimated release time even though they realize it's going to upset people. These guys are building something that could very well determine whether they have jobs two years from now. I'd be really careful to get it right before I released it too.
Responsibilty ultimately rests with the leader for a failed project and it seems Mark Jacobs is determined to make sure things go like they should and deliver a quality game.
If they are saying the same thing this time next year I'll figure this was all just a scam to get more pre-order money.
I hope the game is all it can be. I am saddened as i have nthing I really enjoy playing. Wow as polished as it is did not hold y interest as UO and DAPC did. I have preordered but I also will tey AOC as I have nothing to play. All my friends are playing war so I will but this is a reason I will buy a game I never would have tried. it does give AOC a chance to really get me hooked hat thye never would have. All the space games have been poor so Stargate or Star Trek or Star anything has my interest at all.
They pretty much have the upperhand on the genre for their title, anyway. May as well delay it for the better..!
Anyone know what specific areas of the game they are hoping to improve with the extra time? I'm curious.
I H-A-T-E the way these guys handle the PR on Warhammer online - constantly dishing out new releases instead of just shutting up about it and starting a solid PR-campaign about 6 months before the realistic release date. This is just a big pile of bullsh*t - if there was a problem with development, then it was OBVIOUS the last times the game was pushed back for 3 months...
What i mean is: imagine you're a dev and you don't see your game getting ready as scheduled - do you delay it for 3 months, then again for 3, and then again for half a year at least?
No you don't because either you see that your game will not be ready for a year, in that case its just PR - and making a lot of people angry and/or frustrated by the way. OR you think it'll be ready in 3 months and have t odelay another 3 months because you see you just need another bit of time... but it just doesn't make sense to sell it as if the devs were going "Whoops! Well, there was this little thing you know, and now we need a year *at least* instead of 3 months for fixing it".
The argument that they're "making the game better" and "will not launch a game that is ready and polished" is wearing off - i believed it once, even twice... but not three times. Not if the last delay means the difference between a summer release with a lot of people in holidays and a christmas release ( "fall" normally means december when people want to sell anything) with a lot of people shopping presents for their beloved and themselves.
This really sucks - not because WAR is delayed, but because you end up feeling bullsh*tted.
Hmm, even more development time, this game better be good.
Time to pre-order AOC in the mean time.
IM SICK OF WAITING! BUTTTTTTT I would rather have a game completely polished than a game full of bugs and halfway finished!
/cry
Exactly!
The MMORPG community has so many weird "traditions" that there are those who have forgotten how the rest of the gaming industy works.
For example, it's been traditional for old MMORPG developers to meet their deadline by pushing out a half-backed piece of junk and expecting players to pay to beta-test it. The old MMORPG community let them do this and accepted it. This practice was made worse because patches are part of the MMORPG model, so developers used that as an excuse to pay even less attention to the bugs.
The MMORPG market has changed, players are no longer willing to pay to beta-test and wait for patches to fix the bugs. That's a good thing but it means MMORPG players will have to get used to delays in release dates.
Just like mainstream gamers have for years.
It's good to see that most of the posts in this thread seem to understand this, something else we can thank for MMORPGs becoming more mainstream.
I was actually worried it wasn't going to get delayed. Makes it seem much more like a definite hit now that it's been pushed back.
People generally have this reaction to delays, it's a well known PR tactic in games. The idea is that you give the community a proposed, 'date' when the game will roughly hit. This generates a lot of interest and word of mouth publicity the sooner the date arrives. Then all of a sudden, maybe a month or two before the said period of release, it's annonced the games 'delayed' for 'polishing', or some other optimisation. Reaction: community gets annoyed but because there following the game and are fans there not going to drop it. Then a new date is announced and the whole process starts again, but as in theory you've retained those fans who've invested your fan base will grow with new fans as more people will hear how the die hards are desperate for it and wanna check it out.
Bottom Line in my view is this: Mythic never expected to release in the summer, it's more likely to appear next year I feel. It's already been agreed with EA a long time ago, which is why there's no talk of problems at that end. The reason we get these, 'prospective release dates', is for the reason i gave above and as an attempt to keep themselves in the picture before one of their rivals releases, (AoC).
It's basically PR bull***t, so try not to believe it till you see it on the shelf
He has stated (in the devtracker below) that it is to expand game systems already in place and to make a very nice polish. They don't want everything half assed. He stated that the game build is feature complete, but, they want to make a GREAT game. Not a GOOD game.
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/devtrack.php
Oh well, another delay. We should all be used to this by now as this is par for the course on any MMO developed these days.
See you in the WAR universe Christmas 2008, or spring 2009
As a side note, I personally feel this will push the AoC date back as well. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I always suspected that they were trying to release their product as close as possible to the WAR release.
I'm going to buy this game whether it comes out tomorrow and gets patched up to a very polished version, or whether it comes out 3 years from now, the point is, I WANT TO PLAY
Beta Access plz
far better for them to get it to a point where its merchandisable . non of us want another vanguard . personally i m going to try either conan or if thats delayed lord of the rings . am totally bored with warcraft now .
I am less likely to play WAR now. Not because I am angry, I just have become very melancholy with all MMO's and their early, always delayed, announcement dates.
The longer I know about an MMO, and the more times it gets delayed, the more the excitement levels seems to wane, and there is just a point where it drops low enough that I lose interest... they funny thing is that the same thing happened with another MMO... I lost interest after many delays, and started following WAR.
Crazy, just stick with this one, it's very promising
In journalism, people write "he said, she said" for a reason - it does not inject hidden judgements about the veracity of the claim into the piece. In my experience, when people say things like "oh god no" its a prepared answer to an obvious and anticipated question, planned in talking points well before the interview.
It's funny, but I know what you are talking about, and I don't know why that is with me either. They build the excitement level up so high with a game, you anxiously await the release date (even if it’s an approximate one), then they pull the rug out from under your feet. You say, “ok, no problem”, and wait for the next supposed release date, it gets close, then they pull the rug out from under you again.
They do this enough times, and it becomes something along the lines of the “boy who cried wolf” tale. Pretty soon, if someone yells and screams next to you long enough, you tend to become immune to their ravings and ignore them.
While I certainly haven't thrown in the towel with giving WAR a try, I'm most definitely not as excited as I once was.
You posters with the marketing angle hit the nail on the head. This is not a sudden, painful and controversial decision, this was carefully orchestrated marketing manuever.
Christmas is when we will see the box on the shelves. Best time to maximize sales at this time.
Considering we haven't even seen the last profession of High elves, or any testing of elven pairings, how could anyone expect them to release Q2?
Notice they didn't give us a quarterly estimated launch this time. They said Fall. Winter doesn't start until the third week of december. MMORPG has it correctly put that a Q4 release (october / november / december - with emphasis on december).
Other interesting tidbits of marketing - make the move of "delay" and then put up collector editions preorders for sale to keep player interest up. Put a "limit" of available Collector editions and drive up the demand. I must say that the features of the collectors edition are the best ones I have seen as far as in game benefits.
Now the game has generated revenue without having a product to deliver for another 8-9 months. They aint dumb.
I agree with the Op I also want it when its 100% done. I have faith that we will get a good product.
Anyone else pre-order the Collector"s edition. I did ...from the EA online store in the US.
Can't wait for Warhammer. :)
There's a ton of this kind of sentiment floating around. The devs are only saying and have repeated it that they are using this time to POLISH the game. If it was another Vanguard at this point, someone probably would get fired (mark).
However, I think it's at least some measure of BS. They show all these videos saying, "look! look how great it is even though we're still in beta!" and now say, "Oh, oh wait. It's really not that great and we need another 1/3 of a year minimum to polish it up". Four months of polish time? Isn't that what they said the last time the game was delayed? That excuse is wearing thin.
Oh, and Mark? If you're so avid about saying that release times aren't set in stone then take your own advice and stop giving even a general time release. You're better off just saying, "A minimum of x months, but most likely longer. It's finished when it's finished and not soon, so I can't give you even a vague time frame."
Note: I'm not angry about the delay, I expect it with this market. However, if you're going to say one thing, then do another and continually disappoint your target consumer you're shooting yourself in the foot.
In reply to the above post...I do think you're right ...Marketting is definitely involved here...and from what I can glean from P. Barnett's fun-filled videos, everything is watched closely...has a timeline and done for a reason.
I don't have any problems with this..or any problems understanding it. I am not one of those people who will go cry because War isn't out yet...quality takes time..and thats all there is to it. Meantime we have the spring and summer to do other things while we're waiting on War. :)
People need to realize that all the screaming and yelling in the world ..won't make it come out faster. They need to do what they need to do.
Personally I am pleased they finally gave us an opportunity to pre-order the CE, its something I have been waiting for.
Meantime I will continue to read up on any and all info in regards to Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, because I know its not going to be another Vanguard..for one, and for two I think these guys (my personal impression) are actually excited about their own game. I think they have been as forthcoming as possible with projected dates, nothing ever seems to go as planned...and thats par for the course.
War is my very last online game I'll play...been online since 1995...and when I retire from gaming, War will be the one I regrettfully put down..to do "real life".
Patience ....is STILL a Virtue..I think some folks need to think about that one. :)
Cend
I find the incessant whining that erupts whenever any game is delayed to be extremely childish. Real life is packed with fun activities that make time just fly by.
Ahhh, this is perfect! I was contemplating between War and AoC all the more reason to start with Age of Conan!
The pressure is now on Funcom (with Age of Conan) to make a game with lasting appeal instead of fighting EA-Mythic for launch day numbers. It's a no-brainer now that AoC will be the game of the summer but will that reign be short-lived?
I'm looking forward to both games, but with WAR I'm just letting it sit on the back burner now. When I see an actual release date and pre-orders for sale then I'll be interested.
"It’ll be done when it’s done."
Ah the memories...
They forgot about step 6 (or maybe 5a). Release the CE version to generate some sales for this quarter and offset the negative hype over the pushback by promising OB access with each purchase.
Don't get me wrong. I'll play WAR. But as one of the earlier posters wrote, I've been around since the middle 90s and have grown tired of 'same old, same old'. WAR will most likely be my last real 'hard core' game. I am hoping it will be good enough to hold me for a while so if they delay, so be it.
At least it takes the burden off explaining to my wife why I bought 2 games in a months time (WAR and AoC being so close in original release dates.) Ha Ha!
What i find funny is... ppl still think AoC will be released on time...
It is my impression that Conan is less finished than WAR. Just a gut feeling who knows (unless someone in both betas wants to drop me a PM saying Im wrong). I'm sure i'll play both at some stage obviously the first to hit the shelves will be first on the hard drive. Sadly nowadays MMORPG's only hold me for a few months many not even that. Just wish I could find something that really grabs me by the gonads to play right now.
Milk that cash cow for all it's worth. Funny how I could produce high quality work on time. How did I do that? Well I'm glad you asked. First off I didn't @$&% around, I worked on jobs that where always a rush. We need this done right away. So what did I do? I worked my a$$ off. I didn't cut corners. The work was of the highest quality. On those very few jobs where there was no rush. Guess what the job went on and on. I milked it for all it's worth. Sometimes placing a time limit on a job isn't such a bad idea (just take a look at Iraq). Is my story rare? I don't think so. Oh and by the way I could care less if WAR ever comes out. Not that I'm mad of the delay, but because WAR brings nothing new to MMORPG.
Heres to the cow, may her teats never dry up.
Send me $30 and I'll gladly send you my boxed copy.
Uh ..pre-orders are for sale..go to Warhammer's site..its plastered all over the front page. :P Collector's Edition with all kinds of bells and whistles, depending which store you order it from.
Really hard to miss. :)
Cend
Don't think i have much confidence in Funcom, I was in on the release of Anarchy Online..lets just say it wasn't the best release ...and for 3 months after..there were still some rather large problems. :P
Cend
You're probably right. This latest delay opens the door for Funcom to delay again and still release several months before WAR.
I hope they can taker there time, and not get forced pulling a "Vanguard". The game has the potential to be a really ground breaking game.
~H
The problem with WAR is that they're trying and hoping to compete with WoW. If they'd simply settle for being a good game and getting a respectable player base they'd be so much better off than trying to please everyone to become the next mega hit with 4.5 million in Europe and the US.
I wouldn't be too surprised if a year from now, Pirates of the Burning Sea is bigger than both WAR and AoC, and I don't consider it entirely unlikely that AoC will also be bigger than WAR. Simply because trying to be a second WoW will simply have players go for WoW instead of your game.
And no, I don't believe for a second that the delay is for any other reason than trying to grab the WoW crowd. Mythic knows RvR, and already had that nailed down pretty well early on. I think delays are all to please the "WoW-market".
And of course this is my personal opinion and guesses, not adamant truth or analysis based on insider Mythic info. At least, when proven wrong a year from now, I won't be creating another account to hide from it. :-p
Edit: and my best wishes to the Mythic guys. We're all cheering for you. Just please keep this your game, not the game you had to make to make (more) money.
Well I agree with you, but keep something in mind. WoW is so hugely popular for a certain reason...not because of the Warcraft name, or because of any certain graphical styles. It's because the game is fun. That's as much an opinion as it's a convention, and of course a good number of people will play it and not enjoy their time.
But nine million people, more than any other online game before it, many of whom are first timers to the genre, have played the game and become addicted. Still, just calling it 'fun' is a little vague. The character development is interesting, the abilities are fun to try in combat (and constantly changing through patches) the world itself is rather well conceived, and the game is programmed incredibly well. Nearly everything works the way it should, nothing seems too 'slow' or restraining, it's an easy game to just jump into and feel like a part of the world that's fun to interact with. It's on the easy side which makes it even more accessible, but there are a lot of further challenges players can find once the levelling process is tired out. Everything about WoW is solid. All of it comes together and ropes people in who never even thought they'd play a game like this.
I'm not writing a review for WoW, I'm trying to put the desire to emulate WoW's success into perspective. They're not just trying to put out a game made a certain way that will make a lot of money, they're trying to make a game so accessible that people in the millions will jump into this game and come away with it wanting to return. Sure, it will make them a lot of money...and that's why EA is so lenient with Mythic about this.
To put it conversely, think about Final Fantasy XI. There are some people who think the game is utterly badass, and hate the guts out of World of Warcraft. That's great for them, but people like me who think FFXI is just too slow and unforgiving to get motivated enough to play to the endgame simply aren't going to invest time and money into this product. And Mythic's bottom line is simply, why put out such an extensive, immersive product with such a prolific name as Warhammer if you aren't going to aspire to getting as many people to sink as money hours into this experience as they possibly can? Money or not.
BUT. One thing I agree with you about is that I do feel that they're pushing a little too far toward their perceived ideal of perfection. There's only so much improvement you can make before doing more harm than good. I feel that releasing the game pretty close to perfect and then making small changes after (there's these things called patches and expansions games have!) would be good enough.
I do wonder what state the game, and it's gameplay is in considering the extra length of development put in place for WAR. On the one hand, one can only assume this extra development time is a good thing so that it's extra polished, but on the other hand, I'm worried there's issues with balance and the gameplay features that they had to delay WAR again. I have no interest in the Warhammer franchise, and the only reason I'm planning to buy WAR is because I've enjoyed DAOC for years, and I'm hoping Mythic can better themselves with this game.
Well I'll give them a small applaud for not wanting to release something unfinished but lets be honest here, they weren't going to release anywhere near the same time as AOC. So lets not give them that much credit ok ? This game has been in developement for almost 3 years now and seems to be nowhere near finished. The last time they pushed it back they said they wanted to add more things to the game and polish. Ok great for the fans but asking for essentially an 8 month extension to add even more polish is mind boggling and it is not even guaranteed it is going to release in the fall of 2008. Sounds to me either the beta testers were still unhappy with the changes or simply they just don't want to release near AOC. Could be both but either way I wouldn't expect a 2008 release at all.
I think they put themselves into a hole now. If they released now then it would be the next Vanguard, extend the developement and run the risk of competing with other mmo games such as Stargate Worlds, Guild Wars 2, The Agency, Bioware MMO, Aion and also Blizzard has yet to announce its new mmo which hopefully will be announce soon! Hope someone has a big enough rope to pull them out of the hole cause its getting deeper and deeper.
I think some of the people posting they won't play something because it won't be out in the Summer vs the Fall is idiotic. I also think it's idiotic that people are swayed by forum user ignorance. A time frame for release is not the deciding factor for why anyone plays a game. The deciding factor is the community and friends that will be playing. The systems design of WAR appeals to my gaming style. I know many in my guild bought the CE just to make sure they could setup the guild during the Head Start period.
Reality check -- look over the facts and the mechanics of the game, ignore the forum hype and have fun with your guildmates once it goes live. If it's truly going to be a solid MMO, does it matter when it's released? Make up your own mind and don't be swayed either way by the forum cattle. When it comes out, either play it, or don't. This angst about it in the meanwhile is meaningless.
Well said Ghimpi :)
I never base my wanting to play a game..on when its released. INSTEAD I follow the game, watch the videos read what the critics have to say..either pro or con, and decide for myself if this is the game for me.
Once i do that...its just a waiting/patience game. If the game is pushed back a few times, that tells me that the Devs are not yet satisfied with how things are turning out..and CLOSED BETA is the best time to go back to the drawing board and revise things that looked great on paper but not so good on implementation.
Any work of art.........takes time, patience and love to produce.
Cend
I base my game purchasing on a game if said company has made a realtivly close game like it before. In this case, mythic has and two things always stick in my head when I see anything about this title. First, they balance a game to crap and kill the player base. Still have not learned that, second they had another title in the works for a few years and it was deemed "not marketable", Mark's comment about we never bla bla bla, is just like his comments on that cancelled title that "WILL be released" and "Trials of Atlantis was a great expansion to the game", both comments which are and have been proven false.
I give credit were credit is due, daoc rvr was top notch and really the first in game seige type game that was fun and made sense. But everything else was the worse of anything you could think about an MMO. It is why the population went south after so many changes, it is why so many people I know don't care for beta and on and on I can go.
More power to those that will play the title, I just don't eat the b.s. that is being fed here. History speaks mounds more then words, in the case of Conan for instance, I am interested, but pulled my pre-order for the information released started getting double talked, just like they did with AO. Nuff said.
I think you have it there. Trouble is WAR is only looking like its going to be incremental improvements on the WoW formula and to be the MMO champ needs a "new generation MMO" I know I sound like an ad-man but seriously it needs something that dosent folow that whole tired EQ WOW formula. I have an opinion on the sort of thing that might be and there are a few titles that have some of the ingredients. Of course when people start to go back and look at what was fun in UO, & before that MUDS, the clues are there. It's all stuff McQuaid stripped out of the genre with EQ.
Man I dont mind the wait just finish it 100%. We as players and Warhammer Fans don't wanna see such a great combination ruined just casue of some people wanting to play early.
Just dont make us wait till 2009 Okay? Good.
Here's the thing.....You can only use the excuse "spit and polish" so many times. While I'll agree on most points and by no means want another vanguard released, I'm a little concerned over this last delay.
Its not whether or not the game is going to good, It will be good or great , but the beta testing has revealed some of the content or mechanics that they thought would be a hit were not.
So how long before we wait until they release? Who knows for sure, but I don't think hiding behind spit n polish to make the best dam game is going to work anymore.
The pre order info being posted shows around 10/07/08 - 10/14/08 or something like that. If Mythic doesn't clean up what they want by then and release the game good or great I think they will have comiited suicide for War.
If you don't have confidence in your game Mark then hire someone with some balls to push what the game needs to be released.
I don't care about AoC, I don't want to play it and I won't play it.
It's not like there's is an alternative to what i want.
I want to play WAR and at the right time when it will be done.
I'm not currently playing any other MMO and I don't feel the need to.
Stargate World ?...a threat to a many years in developpement game? doubt so.
anyways my 2 cents.
I think this delay means that they should open up the beta test more.. to more testers...
like me..
*cough*
Both WAR and AoC have a challenging problem.
The reason WoW is so immensely popular is, of course, because it's easy for the MMO novice and the casual gamer to get into. Most MMO players are casual -- they don't PvP much, if at all -- nor do they raid much. The statistics bear this out, and it's really interesting since WoW is an equipment centric game where success and end game are based on raids and PvP.
That said, here come WAR and AoC. In both, PvP is central. In fact, WAR is nothing but PvP.
So how does FunCom and EA Mythic draw the casual MMO player? Add more PvE to draw them in while finding ways to introduce these casual players into PvP in a way that's fun for them. Both FunCom and Mythic have experience with this.
I doubt if EA Mythic or FunCom are aiming for a niche market audience of hardcore powergamers who live and breath PvP. No. The only thing they want to emulate from WoW is the hugely popular wide-based appeal -- 9 million players is a nice, round number. So when comparing it to WoW, this will be the crux for the success or failure of both WAR and AoC.
I agree with some of the previous posters. Should never have given a date to begin with. Pushing it back over and over really upsets their customers and they risk losing some as a result.
Oh and personally I was looking forward to Imperator over WAR by far.
Please just make this the last delay. I understand that this will help of the quality if the game on launch day I'm getting anxious and don't know how much longer I can keep waiting.
I can also wonder if this is EA sticking their nose into the development mucking it up. In the past a lot of developers have said, American McGee for one, that EA wasn't a good company to work for from a development standpoint.
At least these guys have figured it out, if you have a bad release your game, no matter how good later on will not be as successful as it could have been.
I agree with those of you who said that they should not have even had a release date. All it brings is dissapointment. They knew going into development that there would be atleast one delay. It doesnt help the way the are having closed beta....bit by bit, area by area[i am not in beta i just read that from the WAR website].
It is a good way to focus on one point at a time but slows up the process all at once. But then again, you dont want an unfinished product on the market.