whups you are correct.  I have moved my post to a new thread in the general discussion.

Cheers, 

Karsk Jagare

Originally posted by Karsk_Jagare   

And story ?  Yeah sure. But you cannot simply mean that there is a great back story that someone can read about, or quests that lamely have a back story that you can follow.  Most people do not read quest backstories.  Instead a couple people do and then create summaries on forums or wikis or databases so no one else has to slog through it.  This suggests several things.  The first is that the story line has to be far more interactive than it presently is to really be a "pillar".  The seocnd is that forums and other out of game methods of problem solving and communication simply have to be taken into account, understood  and utilized more effectively.  These forums represent one interface between the virtual world and the real world.  There is innovation to be done in this regard?

So I hope that Bioware or any other game company does not paint themselves into a corner when they think about what an mmo needs.  This is not how new cool games are created. Its how clones are created.   

 

Since story is the #1 rated desire for players on SWTOR forum official poll, I will address this only. While I agree with you on the summaries and databases of the story lines, Bioware has circumvented this by stating that their game will be almost 100% voiceover play. This is a first for any MMO, and will surely hook people into the story a lot more firmly than just text.

Also, I believe i also read a thread on here about the overuse of the word "Clone" by MMO players.

Also, you're in the wrong forum boss... completely off topic here. There are plenty of other forums to post that in.

Finally, these comics are pretty neat, but moving way too slowly. Honestly, you're better off waiting for a good 3 months, then reading it all in one shot.

Originally posted by Karsk_Jagare

It's nice somebody still thinks about this stuff in game dev.  These are the kinds of questions designers like Richard Garriott used to explore back in the pre-UO days, when IDEAS were still important, before money became the single all-encompassing goal for development.  Gone are the days when designers dreamed of creating rich immersive compelling fantasy Worlds, now it's 'how can we make a buck'. 

There are problems with the status quo 4 pillars.   Take combat and progression for example.  In my opinion, the two  do not seem to be compatible.   

PvP is inherently antithetical to MMOGs. Period.  The myriad convoluted solutions designers have tried over the years to make the 2 work together demonstrates the incompatibility.

Exploration? You bet. But what kind of exploration are we talking about here?  Aimless wandering through huge but unpopulated environments?  That works for a couple of weeks.  Adventure has to result in something.  

God yes, manys the time i've run thru the wilderlands hoping for something ANYTHING novel to stumble across, a small shrine, a ruined cabin, a fairie ring, jeez Anything that would lead to something going on in the world.

You create a world with multiple interactive institutions.  Many player associations that each have an in game, story driven purpose.  PLayers can join and leave these associations.   An army.  A black market.  Engineering groups.  As well as towns, birthplaces, worlds, empires. All associations that players can belong to.  Each association has a geographical location, a set of unique experiences to go with membership...(Armies fight and so on,  Engineers build things and so on) Each association has its own truly unique experience.  Story driven. And the associations can interact with one another...Engineers build mechs that amries use.. black markets provide a place where stolen things get sold.  

Yep, stuff like this is what the original MMO designers were talking about back in the early '90's, a dynamic, player driven, consequential, Living World.

When someone says Story is important, this is the kind of thing I think of. Sure its important, but how are you going to embed an individuals story into the gameplay?  How does his or her actions relate to their individual story? How does (the individuals story) become a part of the story of the world or the empire?

 I think there IS a way to do it, you're talking about implementing History into a gameworld , history being defined as the cumulative effect of individuals actions.  It's do-able.  But it won't come from the EA's or Sony's of the world, it'll come from an indy developer.