Wow! End level in 20 days and you complain about grind. I never made it to end level in WoW in 20 days and never heard anyone complaining of how long it takes to get to the level cap, all MMOs have a grind, however I can see that more and more players are wanting instant gratification then spending the time to develop their character, which is the way MMOs should be. But I wont argue with semantics of an MMO.

1. The crashes for the fort sieges should be fixed, or is it many people are trying to play on high settings with out-dated drivers and graphics card? We don't know specifics and only the tech team can begin to understand the problem. And I am pretty sure they are already trying to fix it. Believing that they are not is very naive. And saying that "All the engineering staff should be working on this along with NCWest..." Well lets just forget all the other issues, because we'd rather have everyone work on this issue!

2. "24/7 GM support. A spammer should be banned within 1 hour. Require level 20 for /1 and /3 chats.
Develop an in house anti-cheat program, this will benefit all your games." 24/7 GM support is easier typed than done. Requiring levels for players to achieve will block out the voices of the players who need to be heard to receive help, thusly alienating the lower levels. I can understand the frustration and coming from a "self-proclaimed veteran MMO player" you should understand that not everyone who plays MMOs now are also veterans to MMOs and requiring them to level up to a level that would take someone such as yourself a few hours to get to, would take another, lesser experienced player more time to achieve given the lesser ability to reach out to other players. And, at this time, NCSoft has developed a spam filter that seems to be working quite well.

Also, how is NCSoft supposed to develop an anti-cheat program if all their devs are working on the fort siege crashes?

Yes, they need to try to fix hacking, by adding more server side checks, not an anti-cheat program unless you're referring to Warden, which makes me giggle inside.

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

I am pretty sure it is unlikely you will see a response from the actual game makers in NCSoft Korea...ask anyone who has played Lineage 2, the communication to the western players is patchy at best. Remember we are an afterthought to their primary market in Korea, if the Koreans arent also complaining about an issue then chances of a change are slim.

botting and such is a good example, and the use of third party credit sellers is pretty much accepted to a degree in Korea, certainly more so than over here. They will only crack down when it gets to a point were the Korean user base is complaining too.

I'm sure the Korean Corporate officers at NCSoft will take notice.

Originally posted by CyanSword

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

 

I am pretty sure it is unlikely you will see a response from the actual game makers in NCSoft Korea...ask anyone who has played Lineage 2, the communication to the western players is patchy at best. Remember we are an afterthought to their primary market in Korea, if the Koreans arent also complaining about an issue then chances of a change are slim.

botting and such is a good example, and the use of third party credit sellers is pretty much accepted to a degree in Korea, certainly more so than over here. They will only crack down when it gets to a point were the Korean user base is complaining too.

Don't think this is entirely true.  I mean the Koreans have had the game for a year and have just dealt with the botting and suddenly it comes to the  US market and after a month of complaints about botters they put out patches and work to solve the issue.  And while it hasn't been entirely eliminated, it does show that the US team/player base holds some decent weight and can make things happen.

No, there are 50s running around already

A lot of 40s, so grinding? not that much.. Should make leveling harder....

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by CyanSword

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

 

I am pretty sure it is unlikely you will see a response from the actual game makers in NCSoft Korea...ask anyone who has played Lineage 2, the communication to the western players is patchy at best. Remember we are an afterthought to their primary market in Korea, if the Koreans arent also complaining about an issue then chances of a change are slim.

botting and such is a good example, and the use of third party credit sellers is pretty much accepted to a degree in Korea, certainly more so than over here. They will only crack down when it gets to a point were the Korean user base is complaining too.

Don't think this is entirely true.  I mean the Koreans have had the game for a year and have just dealt with the botting and suddenly it comes to the  US market and after a month of complaints about botters they put out patches and work to solve the issue.  And while it hasn't been entirely eliminated, it does show that the US team/player base holds some decent weight and can make things happen.

That's true. Though they were pretty sketchy during Lineage 2 they did catagorically state that Aion was being designed with a global market in mind.

The lead designer really is a nice guy. No really. He is. And the interesting thing is that he is willing to listen to people. This is not to say he is going to go right out and change everything as he is a creative mind as well, but he is interested in feedback.

The question is whether or not NC is up to the task of being just as detail oriented as say Blizzard.

I really do find it ridicoulous that I can't submit a petition during non-business hours.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by CyanSword

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

 

I am pretty sure it is unlikely you will see a response from the actual game makers in NCSoft Korea...ask anyone who has played Lineage 2, the communication to the western players is patchy at best. Remember we are an afterthought to their primary market in Korea, if the Koreans arent also complaining about an issue then chances of a change are slim.

botting and such is a good example, and the use of third party credit sellers is pretty much accepted to a degree in Korea, certainly more so than over here. They will only crack down when it gets to a point were the Korean user base is complaining too.

Don't think this is entirely true.  I mean the Koreans have had the game for a year and have just dealt with the botting and suddenly it comes to the  US market and after a month of complaints about botters they put out patches and work to solve the issue.  And while it hasn't been entirely eliminated, it does show that the US team/player base holds some decent weight and can make things happen.

 

That's true. Though they were pretty sketchy during Lineage 2 they did catagorically state that Aion was being designed with a global market in mind.

The lead designer really is a nice guy. No really. He is. And the interesting thing is that he is willing to listen to people. This is not to say he is going to go right out and change everything as he is a creative mind as well, but he is interested in feedback.

The question is whether or not NC is up to the task of being just as detail oriented as say Blizzard.

I really do find it ridicoulous that I can't submit a petition during non-business hours.

Agreed.

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

Yeah it is interesting.

Netcurse won't need to take responsability for his suggestions, he could just suggest whatever he see as fitting. Raise quest rewards by 15% or whatever solution. Presenting something definite like that, how come he knows that, what do he base that on, obviosly NCSoft doesnt.

I would eventually leave it until "after" to decide if it was a good ideas or not.

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

Yeah it is interesting.

Netcurse won't need to take responsability for his suggestions, he could just suggest whatever he see as fitting. Raise quest rewards by 15% or whatever solution. Presenting something definite like that, how come he knows that, what do he base that on, obviosly NCSoft doesnt.

I would eventually leave it until "after" to decide if it was a good ideas or not.

uh..What?

Curse founder is spot on.
He likes Aion, yet he is stating qwhat the majority of us is saying in this forum and that the fanboys refuse to accept.

The grind between 18 and 25 becomes unbearable by the majority of players, if you read the complains in this forum, all of the people said they quit between 18 and 25, so there is a problem
If NCSoft doesn't address it, they will end up like AoC and WAR, that's as simple as that.

I don't think NCSoft is going to improve the game by that much.
Personally the game is too solo oriented, there is not enough group content to keep you going and forget about the grind.
But kudos to the Curse founder for addressing the problems in such a public way.

In summary:

To fix Aion, make it WoW, where you can level to the cap in a week, and mods cause everything to become a "who has a thousandth of a percent better damage? the rest of you are noobs!" game in every group.

The grind is minimal, oh no, whatever will I do, there's a couple levels that take a little longer, the world may end.  Take that time to hunt for some decent gear.  You're in the level range longer, take advantage of it (blues in the 20's, for instance, would last you a very long time; you can even get some yellows, if you get lucky).

The WoWtard needs to go back to his precious and stop trying to make every game on the market a WoWclone.  WoW's unimaginative and generic enough as it is, we don't need even more other games homogenizing the entire genre to be just like the piece of trash.  Some people do still like actually earning something, and playing a game, instead of just logging in, instantly hitting max level, and grinding end-game content to the exclusion of all else until an expansion comes out.  Enjoy the damn game, it's probably one of the best I've ever seen, and I've played pretty much all of them up until WoW and the shovelware clones that followed it.

Aion is a game that has huge potential. It's a game based on tradition and clearly has a refined and direct idea of where it wants to be and where it wants to go.

However, neither of those aims right now seem to sit well in the Western market. NCSofts bread and butter may be in Korea and other Asian countries, but they stand to gain far more by cracking the Western market and that is something that - in their current state of mind - they aren't going to do. Remember, Blizzard makes its $2 billion dollars a year out of the Western player base for WoW, not the Asians.

To demand 300+ hours of levelling from a player is an unreasonable thing to do, especially when your quest content is - and always has been - boring, tedious and comes topped with a distinct lack of diversity. Add to that the fact that there are barely enough quests to cover each level and you are pretty much assured to spend more of your time grinding than doing anything interesting or entertaining. It's plain to see that quests in Aion are designed to point out to you where you should be grinding, rather than offering a compelling and interesting form of progression through content. That's not a wise thing to do in the West where - much to the dismay of the elite - the market is predominantly made up of casual players looking for a game that will compel them but takes little of their time to progress through. That is not Aion right now. Most players - even if they are starting to abhor it - will stick with World of Warcraft which is largely compelling and doesn't have a dire time cost on top of the monthly fee. It's interesting that Aion demands so much time of its players when NCSoft suggested that patch 1.5 would reduce this requirement significantly. In short, it didn't.

The group content - whilst well delivered - comes with no incentive outside of the experience itself. The itemisation in this area is dire and it DOES need to be looked at. The same applies to the idea of open PvP in the abyss from level 35 onward. How compelling is it going to be for the player who - when there are a whole bunch of level 50s wandering around - can't PvP because he constantly gets owned? In short, it isn't and it signals yet another reason why people will turn their backs on Aion in favour of a more forgiving player experience.

Aion is a pretty game with a well developed and refined engine to back it up. However, when users on high end machines can't take part in the pinnacle of the games content - Fortress Sieges - due to chain crashing, the incentive to stick around is largely diminished. With no one talking to the European or American player base about what is going on with fixes to this area of the game - or generally for that matter - players have no idea what to do. It suggests one of two things: either NCSoft don't appreciate the Western market enough to spend some money on Customer Service or there is a massive communication issue within the company itself, leading to the Western GMs and CMs being unable to pass information along because they don't have it themselves.

Edit: And as an additional comment to all of those people claiming that these proposed changes simply suggest making Aion more WoW like, that may well be almost-true. However, the fixes are not the important issue here. The important issue is the game has fallen short of what it needs to do to maintain a strong and healthy population of gamers. End game in Aion is all about mass PvPvE and that is greatly diminished if your player base falls below the 300,000 subscriber mark and is spread across multiple servers. With NCSofts policy of, "locking," servers that are full, a downward trend in subscribers would result in a few servers with cap'd populations and many more with low or dwindling populations that can't experience mass PvPvE in its true form. In effect, it is the casual players that will assure a large and healthy player base for Aion and also ensure the health of its PvP. You can dislike it but you can't not reasonably deny it. Making the game more friendly to casual gamers is an important goal.

All in all, Aion is a polished, well delivered and well conceived title that stands to gain a lot if it does things right. You can't say it is unsuccessful right now either but the longevity of the game is diminished by these seemingly obvious examples of poor design. When you localise a game, it should go beyond translating quest text and adding new voice overs. There should be a distinct effort to alter the game so that it better suits the particular market. Yes, it costs more money up front but with this sort of refinement and alteration, you are certain of a more successful and playable title and as such you make more money in the long run.

NCSoft won't respond unless they are pressed on the matter. Hubert's letter alone won't encourage them to make these changes or resolve these issues. If the community gets behind his sentiments - even if they don't agree with the fixes (because this isn't about the fixes he proposed) - then there is a chance that they will respond. However, it is more likely that they will refute the claims and fall prey to arrogance, which they feel they can afford.

The letter is nothing more then a whine fest. If the guy from curse wants it to be more like Wow then he can go play wow or any other clone of wow.  The only part that has merit is the crashes and bots. The gold spam they seem to have under pretty good control atm.

An terrible open letter.

This is one of the biggest problems with people who dislike Aion right here:

Reduce 1-50 to 10-15 days played time. Aion has a great PvPvE end game. Let people reroll toons without having them think of the countless hours of grind they will have to do to get to 45+.

Reaching the cap in 2 weeks? Seriously, what happened to the old mentality were you played an mmorpg for months? Now you want to play through the entire game in 2 weeks? Really? Aion's endgame is fun, sure, but endgame is nothing more than a timesink like it is in every mmorpg untill the developer releases new content.

I have not experienced the endgame content in Aion, but from the looks it has PVP and PVE which looks fun but it's not something to going to keep people busy for months. It's clear that Aion's biggest strength is the journey towards the engame and this person suggest that's made shorter?

This is the typical attitude that so many western gamers here. We want to breeze through the content in notime and then start bitching there is nothing left to do.

1 million subscribers? Aion never had the chance to get 1 million subscribers in the west. There really needs to be and to pretending as if it's completely normal for an mmorpg to have 1 million subscribers in the west.

World of Warcraft is the only western mmorpg to break 1 million subscribers. The 2nd most popular mmorpg in the  west was Everquest, which peaked at around 400k subscribers. An Asian MMORPG that doesn't have a famous IP to break 1 million subscribers in the west? Very unlikely.

What's so wrong with having 300k subscribers? 300k subscribers is a great number for an mmorpg in the west.

Originally posted by Gameloading

An terrible open letter.

This is one of the biggest problems with people who dislike Aion right here:

Reduce 1-50 to 10-15 days played time. Aion has a great PvPvE end game. Let people reroll toons without having them think of the countless hours of grind they will have to do to get to 45+.

Reaching the cap in 2 weeks? Seriously, what happened to the old mentality were you played an mmorpg for months? Now you want to play through the entire game in 2 weeks? Really? Aion's endgame is fun, sure, but endgame is nothing more than a timesink like it is in every mmorpg untill the developer releases new content.

I have not experienced the endgame content in Aion, but from the looks it has PVP and PVE which looks fun but it's not something to going to keep people busy for months. It's clear that Aion's biggest strength is the journey towards the engame and this person suggest that's made shorter?

This is the typical attitude that so many western gamers here. We want to breeze through the content in notime and then start bitching there is nothing left to do.
1 million subscribers? Aion never had the chance to get 1 million subscribers in the west. There really needs to be and to pretending as if it's completely normal for an mmorpg to have 1 million subscribers in the west.

World of Warcraft is the only western mmorpg to break 1 million subscribers. The 2nd most popular mmorpg in the  west was Everquest, which peaked at around 400k subscribers. An Asian MMORPG that doesn't have a famous IP to break 1 million subscribers in the west? Very unlikely.

What's so wrong with having 300k subscribers? 300k subscribers is a great number for an mmorpg in the west.

I have to agree, this whole "make it shorter to get to level cap" is ridiculous.

Also, it's equally ridiculous for players to start spouting the whole "needs millioins of players". I don't know of many games that can make that claim.

My feeling is that a low of word of warcraft players who probably have not played many other mmo's come to a game like Aion and immediately expect it to be similar but with a different setting. When it's not they start complaining.

Originally posted by ste2000

Curse founder is spot on.
He likes Aion, yet he is stating qwhat the majority of us is saying in this forum and that the fanboys refuse to accept.

The grind between 18 and 25 becomes unbearable by the majority of players, if you read the complains in this forum, all of the people said they quit between 18 and 25, so there is a problem
If NCSoft doesn't address it, they will end up like AoC and WAR, that's as simple as that.

I don't think NCSoft is going to improve the game by that much.
Personally the game is too solo oriented, there is not enough group content to keep you going and forget about the grind.
But kudos to the Curse founder for addressing the problems in such a public way.

I find that so hard to believe. I made it to 26 in about 2 days of hard playing.

It's ok that someone who wants to take their time reach 25 in a little more than 2 days.

Originally posted by Gameloading

1 million subscribers? Aion never had the chance to get 1 million subscribers in the west. There really needs to be and to pretending as if it's completely normal for an mmorpg to have 1 million subscribers in the west.

World of Warcraft is the only western mmorpg to break 1 million subscribers. The 2nd most popular mmorpg in the  west was Everquest, which peaked at around 400k subscribers. An Asian MMORPG that doesn't have a famous IP to break 1 million subscribers in the west? Very unlikely.

What's so wrong with having 300k subscribers? 300k subscribers is a great number for an mmorpg in the west.

It's only a great number because so many MMORPGs have failed. 300,000 subscribers in a gaming genre is a dismal failure and is not a success. We're living in the age where having a broadband high speed Internet connection and a computer that can handle fairly taxing graphical demands is the norm. When EverQuest, Ultima etc were released, that was not the case. It was far from the norm, so 400,000 subscribers was considered a success. Hell when Neverwinter Nights (MMO) was release on AOL, 100,000 subscribers was considered a storming success. Why don't we just drop the baton down to that level? ;D

300,000 subscribers right now is niche. It's niche figure. Eve Online is considered - and sold - as a niche game. It has over 300,000 subscribers. Warhammer Online and Age of Conan were sold as main stream titles and they both have ~300,000 subscriber or less. World of Warcraft came along and got it right. That's why they have 11 million subscribers. It's not because Warcraft was a popular IP, although it did help. It takes more than a popular IP to sell an MMO - Conan, Warhammer, Dungeons and Dragons, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings being prime examples of IPs that did nothing for the success of the MMO outside of allowing them to cling on for dear life..

There are over 300 million gamers in West. The market share of MMORPGs right now is UNDER 10%. That isn't successful. That's a genre clinging on for dear life.

Aion has the potential to break the 1 million mark EASILY. All it has to do is look at its short falls and change them. I have no doubt if it were more casual friendly, less time consuming and a tad more forgiving on the player - more quest content, compelling group incentives etc - it will grow massively.

I find this letter to be half viable only because he got to level 50 in 15-20 days. Com on now, he spent almost everyday more than 8 hours playing the game. What do you expect ? During the week I can only squeeze in maybe 3 hours a night.  

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

My thoughts, as well. 

I was pleasantly surprised when I read it. I was expecting some arrogant rant by a person who felt he was someone special because he ran a fansite, but it proved to be a thought out and constructive letter by a knowledgeable member of the gaming community.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

 

My thoughts, as well. 

I was pleasantly surprised when I read it. I was expecting some arrogant rant by a person who felt he was someone special because he ran a fansite, but it proved to be a thought out and constructive letter by a knowledgeable member of the gaming community.

Now that is funny to me he came off as arrogant and a huge whine about the game needs to be more like Wow. I also find it funny how he ask for add ons when his site would get a huge hit in traffic if that happen.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

I find this letter to be half viable only because he got to level 50 in 15-20 days. Com on now, he spent almost everyday more than 8 hours playing the game. What do you expect ? During the week I can only squeeze in maybe 3 hours a night.  

jesus, you ppl actually read stuff? He meant 15-20 days of real play time, thats almost 480 hours of gameplay

Well he does get some things right, but also some things wrong too.

The UI, yeah coul be a bit more flexable, a need before greed system would help some, the loot tables do need some rework or tweeking. Yeah GM support should be 24 hours but they are fixing that to make it so. Also working to find a fix for the crashes.

Spammers pretty much reduced their spam to a tolerable level, just need to tweek it some here and there. Bots, well some are gotten to quickly in a few days, but others take some time to destroy their network. It's a work in progress.

The grouping  XP need to be reworked some and need to add a few more quests to each level above twenty-five.

He's wrong on 18-25 levels being a pain to grind.

Do agree that elities need more abilities to counter soloers.

Increasing quest rewards, ok i'll give him that.

Otherwise i enjoy the game very much, am a somewhat casual player who PvP's sometime.

I have a mixed view of this. I'd agree with the concerns about goldsellers, spammers and bots as they have cratered the economy and I nearly left the game over it. The rest... not sure I agree.

With limited game time my cleric is only 20, but I haven't found leveling grindy at all. However, I do find it very linear. With only one place to get more quests, I know I will find mobs appropriate to my level and a requirement to group in order to complete the campaign quests. If I don't find a group though, I'm SoL and so must either grind, work on different quests, work on crafting or go play something else.

One of the things I am seeing that looks like a trend is quick PuGs to get a group quest done, then moving on. Over time, that means you're still mostly soloing. Since there's an emphasis on grouping for campaign quests and PvP. it makes sense that group play should be rewarded rather than penalized. Buffing group XP could solve this but it makes me wonder if the concept needs to be reworked in its entirety.

I can't imagine anyone is surprised that the founder of Curse is advocating the use of addons. But NCSoft said at the start that they wouldn't go there. No reason to make Aion like WoW or any other game with a bazillion addons that can dumb it down. I'm enjoying having to explore and figure out things for myself - at least so far.

But I confess to being leery about what lies ahead. PvP gankage is one of my least favorite things and the death penalties are expensive enough at 20 that I can extrapolate their cost at 30+. Overall though, I'm enjoying the game so have extended my subscription for another month.

Even though he's Curse's founder, I don't think his point of view is more or less important than any other subscriber. This does not deserve the attention it's getting.

There are a lot of MUCH better posts describing Aion's true issues in details and are explained so well.

I just hope NC already know what issues to focus on (fortress crashing, botting, gold spamming etc.). Even though he states those issues in his post, they're overshadowed by the QQ to lessen the leveling curve, QQ to increase exp, QQ to increase drop rate of gold items (???).

Oh and did I say that most of his post is a QQfest?

No thanks.

hes right on most things cept the grind grind doesnt rlly exsist anyways its alrdy insanely fast ppl just got spoiled with wow easy mode

Originally posted by Infalible

Originally posted by Gameloading

1 million subscribers? Aion never had the chance to get 1 million subscribers in the west. There really needs to be and to pretending as if it's completely normal for an mmorpg to have 1 million subscribers in the west.

World of Warcraft is the only western mmorpg to break 1 million subscribers. The 2nd most popular mmorpg in the  west was Everquest, which peaked at around 400k subscribers. An Asian MMORPG that doesn't have a famous IP to break 1 million subscribers in the west? Very unlikely.

What's so wrong with having 300k subscribers? 300k subscribers is a great number for an mmorpg in the west.

It's only a great number because so many MMORPGs have failed. 300,000 subscribers in a gaming genre is a dismal failure and is not a success. We're living in the age where having a broadband high speed Internet connection and a computer that can handle fairly taxing graphical demands is the norm. When EverQuest, Ultima etc were released, that was not the case. It was far from the norm, so 400,000 subscribers was considered a success. Hell when Neverwinter Nights (MMO) was release on AOL, 100,000 subscribers was considered a storming success. Why don't we just drop the baton down to that level? ;D

300,000 subscribers right now is niche. It's niche figure. Eve Online is considered - and sold - as a niche game. It has over 300,000 subscribers. Warhammer Online and Age of Conan were sold as main stream titles and they both have ~300,000 subscriber or less. World of Warcraft came along and got it right. That's why they have 11 million subscribers. It's not because Warcraft was a popular IP, although it did help. It takes more than a popular IP to sell an MMO - Conan, Warhammer, Dungeons and Dragons, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings being prime examples of IPs that did nothing for the success of the MMO outside of allowing them to cling on for dear life..

There are over 300 million gamers in West. The market share of MMORPGs right now is UNDER 10%. That isn't successful. That's a genre clinging on for dear life.

Aion has the potential to break the 1 million mark EASILY. All it has to do is look at its short falls and change them. I have no doubt if it were more casual friendly, less time consuming and a tad more forgiving on the player - more quest content, compelling group incentives etc - it will grow massively.

When Everquest was released,there were less online gamers, but there was also a lot less competition. Look at how many mmorpgs that we have today.

World of Warcraft is successful for many reasons but you can't just say that it being a warcraft game had nothing to do with it being a huge success. All the other IPs you mentioned are all big IPs, but none of them are gaming IPs or have a well known developer behind it. Warcraft is a gaming IP and Blizzard is a well known developer with its big titles such as Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo which not just had a big pc community, they had a big online community. That was the foundation for early WoW, because lots of people were willing to give the game a try.

No other MMORPG developer has this advantage. They all have big IPs but none of them are PC gaming IP's and none of them have big well known studios behind them. When you bought a Warcraft, Starcraft or Diablo game, you knew it was going to be great. With Star Wars, Warhammer and Lord of the Rings? Not so much.

300 million games? I don't know how accurate that is but lets go with it for the sake of argument.
Now drop that number to people who play games on the PC. Then drop that number to people who are interested in Online Roleplaying games. Then drop that people who are willing to pay a monthly fee for a game.

That right there drops the target audience significantly. You talk about Aions shortfalls, but Aion's shortfalls isn't what keeps people away, it's that they are either not interested in playing an mmorpg or they are still having fun in other mmorpgs, probably WoW.

 I'm just going to throw this out there...

I leveled from 1-25 with no problems and had quests to do ALL of the time. I didn't even finish all of the non-campaign group quests. So there's not really a problem to me with leveling and quests. I got there painlessly and quickly actually.. Not to mention I am a templar! I did the leveling solo except for a couple krall quests (yes even the marks were solo). Heck... I've played so many mmos that a grind isn't a word to me. Actually I had been brought up to not even have that as my vocab since any part of leveling was just leveling. Whether you choose to quest or not is your decision. Quests are really just killing monsters or exploring for rewards anyway... you're still killing monsters and exploring even without the quests. "The West" is partially disgusting me: hiding behind the word "grind" nowadays.

Originally posted by Gameloading

When Everquest was released,there were less online gamers, but there was also a lot less competition. Look at how many mmorpgs that we have today.

World of Warcraft is successful for many reasons but you can't just say that it being a warcraft game had nothing to do with it being a huge success. All the other IPs you mentioned are all big IPs, but none of them are gaming IPs or have a well known developer behind it. Warcraft is a gaming IP and Blizzard is a well known developer with its big titles such as Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo which not just had a big pc community, they had a big online community. That was the foundation for early WoW, because lots of people were willing to give the game a try.

No other MMORPG developer has this advantage. They all have big IPs but none of them are PC gaming IP's and none of them have big well known studios behind them. When you bought a Warcraft, Starcraft or Diablo game, you knew it was going to be great. With Star Wars, Warhammer and Lord of the Rings? Not so much.

300 million games? I don't know how accurate that is but lets go with it for the sake of argument.
Now drop that number to people who play games on the PC. Then drop that number to people who are interested in Online Roleplaying games. Then drop that people who are willing to pay a monthly fee for a game.

That right there drops the target audience significantly. You talk about Aions shortfalls, but Aion's shortfalls isn't what keeps people away, it's that they are either not interested in playing an mmorpg or they are still having fun in other mmorpgs, probably WoW.

There were A LOT less Internet users when EverQuest was released. To take that fact and then attempt to twist by going, "mm... yes but there was a lot less competition," is a ridiculous way to enforce your weak argument. There was a less competition for Ford when it brought out its first car but I'm pretty sure they are selling more now - in the competition orientated world - than they were then...

Dungeons and Dragons is a gaming IP as is Warhammer - very, very, very famous IPs in fact. Both are far older than the Warcraft IP :-) Lord of the Rings has had its fair share of success in the gaming world as well :-)

To say that World of Warcraft was a huge success largely due to the IP is a really short sighted point. World of Warcraft was a big success in part because of the IP, as I have said. However, out of the 6 million people who play World of Warcraft now how many of them do you think played Warcraft, Warcraft 2 or Warcraft 3? Based on the fact that at the time of release, sales of Warcraft 3 did not exceed 2 million, we can safely say that  of those that played Warcraft 3, they represent a tiny potion of those that play World of Warcraft. You also aren't accounting for the simple fact that these are two distinctly different games we are talking about. Very different in fact. The only way the IP helped was because it was fairly well known and because it gave the game world a refined context. However, compared to my aforementioned IPs - which were arguably household names for many years before their MMO incarnations - it was small fry. It certainly helped but it fought a tiny percentage of the battle, not the massive portion you contrived viewpoint seems to suggest.

As for the numbers, you are doing a hell of a lot of dropping based on conjecture. There ARE over 300 million gamers in the west. We're not going to rule out the console gamers because console MMOs are a real - and more rewarding - possibility. Age of Conan, DUST 514, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, DC Universe or whatever it is called. All titles that are coming up that are aiming at the console market. Now, we aren't going to rule out those that don't want to play MMOs. We're not talking about specifically MMORPGs here. We are talking about the MMO genre as a whole and there are a plethora of sub-genres that have yet to be tackled, so that little number drop of yours - which is again quite short sighted - can be ignored. Finally, we're going to ignore your number drop for subscription fees as well because we are all fully aware that subscription fees are not a given :-) The F2P market is going from strength to strength. There are actually more people playing F2P titles than there are playing P2P titles. I wonder why that is? So all of your dropped numbers are ruled out because you've narrowed your viewpoint right down to rule out obvious current and future steps in the market. Well done.

You are suggesting that Aion has limited shortfalls or you are suggesting that Aion CAN'T have more than 300,000 subscribers. Either way, you are talking rubbish. If you create something that is good and make sure it includes elements that will ensure a broad appeal, it will be very successful. People thought science fiction wouldn't go beyond a niche when it came to TV. Heroes, Lost, Battlestar Galactica and even SG1 and some Trek proved them wrong. People thought that MMOs would be a niche market - see AOL - and yet look at what Blizzard has accomplished.

If Aion were the perfect MMO - if it were ideal - there would be little stopping it from amassing a huge player base. With the concerns that have been raised ironed out, Aion WOULD be a successful MMO and a successful IP. The only reason you can't see that is because you are to busy looking backwards.

 I try to never use this line but in this case I find it appropriate and the almighty leader of curse can simply go back to WOW because  that is more or less what he wants with wings.

Originally posted by Infalible

Originally posted by Gameloading

When Everquest was released,there were less online gamers, but there was also a lot less competition. Look at how many mmorpgs that we have today.

World of Warcraft is successful for many reasons but you can't just say that it being a warcraft game had nothing to do with it being a huge success. All the other IPs you mentioned are all big IPs, but none of them are gaming IPs or have a well known developer behind it. Warcraft is a gaming IP and Blizzard is a well known developer with its big titles such as Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo which not just had a big pc community, they had a big online community. That was the foundation for early WoW, because lots of people were willing to give the game a try.

No other MMORPG developer has this advantage. They all have big IPs but none of them are PC gaming IP's and none of them have big well known studios behind them. When you bought a Warcraft, Starcraft or Diablo game, you knew it was going to be great. With Star Wars, Warhammer and Lord of the Rings? Not so much.

300 million games? I don't know how accurate that is but lets go with it for the sake of argument.
Now drop that number to people who play games on the PC. Then drop that number to people who are interested in Online Roleplaying games. Then drop that people who are willing to pay a monthly fee for a game.

That right there drops the target audience significantly. You talk about Aions shortfalls, but Aion's shortfalls isn't what keeps people away, it's that they are either not interested in playing an mmorpg or they are still having fun in other mmorpgs, probably WoW.

There were A LOT less Internet users when EverQuest was released. To take that fact and then attempt to twist by going, "mm... yes but there was a lot less competition," is a ridiculous way to enforce your weak argument. There was a less competition for Ford when it brought out its first car but I'm pretty sure they are selling more now - in the competition orientated world - than they were then...

Dungeons and Dragons is a gaming IP as is Warhammer - very, very, very famous IPs in fact. Both are far older than the Warcraft IP :-) Lord of the Rings has had its fair share of success in the gaming world as well :-)

To say that World of Warcraft was a huge success largely due to the IP is a really short sighted point. World of Warcraft was a big success in part because of the IP, as I have said. However, out of the 6 million people who play World of Warcraft now how many of them do you think played Warcraft, Warcraft 2 or Warcraft 3? Based on the fact that at the time of release, sales of Warcraft 3 did not exceed 2 million, we can safely say that  of those that played Warcraft 3, they represent a tiny potion of those that play World of Warcraft. You also aren't accounting for the simple fact that these are two distinctly different games we are talking about. Very different in fact. The only way the IP helped was because it was fairly well known and because it gave the game world a refined context. However, compared to my aforementioned IPs - which were arguably household names for many years before their MMO incarnations - it was small fry. It certainly helped but it fought a tiny percentage of the battle, not the massive portion you contrived viewpoint seems to suggest.

As for the numbers, you are doing a hell of a lot of dropping based on conjecture. There ARE over 300 million gamers in the west. We're not going to rule out the console gamers because console MMOs are a real - and more rewarding - possibility. Age of Conan, DUST 514, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, DC Universe or whatever it is called. All titles that are coming up that are aiming at the console market. Now, we aren't going to rule out those that don't want to play MMOs. We're not talking about specifically MMORPGs here. We are talking about the MMO genre as a whole and there are a plethora of sub-genres that have yet to be tackled, so that little number drop of yours - which is again quite short sighted - can be ignored. Finally, we're going to ignore your number drop for subscription fees as well because we are all fully aware that subscription fees are not a given :-) The F2P market is going from strength to strength. There are actually more people playing F2P titles than there are playing P2P titles. I wonder why that is? So all of your dropped numbers are ruled out because you've narrowed your viewpoint right down to rule out obvious current and future steps in the market. Well done.

You are suggesting that Aion has limited shortfalls or you are suggesting that Aion CAN'T have more than 300,000 subscribers. Either way, you are talking rubbish. If you create something that is good and make sure it includes elements that will ensure a broad appeal, it will be very successful. People thought science fiction wouldn't go beyond a niche when it came to TV. Heroes, Lost, Battlestar Galactica and even SG1 and some Trek proved them wrong. People thought that MMOs would be a niche market - see AOL - and yet look at what Blizzard has accomplished.

If Aion were the perfect MMO - if it were ideal - there would be little stopping it from amassing a huge player base. With the concerns that have been raised ironed out, Aion WOULD be a successful MMO and a successful IP. The only reason you can't see that is because you are to busy looking backwards.

 

Your arguments are extremely weak and full of holes.

To compare it to ford is absolutely laughable. The reason why Fords has increased is because the car industry increased significantly more than the mmorpg industry has. The simple fact of the matter is that there were less games to chose from. The more mmorpgs, the less subscribers on average.

Neither Dungeons and dragons nor Warhammer are video game franchises. Table top games are not video games and people who play table top games don't necessarily play video games and vice versa. All of those have decent enough games but nowhere near the quality of Blizzard franchises and none of them ever had a developer as good as blizzard either.

Warcraft is a video game franchise, the others are not. That's a huge difference.

I wasn't just talking about Warcraft, I was talking about the Blizzard name. Warcraft 3 sold 3 million, Starcraft sold 11 million and Diablo 2 sold 4 million and that's ignoring pirated copies. That's a huge instal base right there. Now I'm not suggesting that all World of Warcraft players are players of these games, but what I do think the vast majority of early WoW players were people who played these games. Blizzard has a large fanbase so with it comes the inevitable: Word of Mouth. WoW players are telling their friends and family about the game. The game already has a big fanbase so that means it's more likely for people to hear about the game and come check it out.

You attempt to disregard my drop in potential target audience with huge holes.

I'll go over them in parts:

We can't disregard console numbers because there are console games upcomming.

Yes we can because Aion does not have a console release. Also, we know that previous console mmorpgs have done average at best. Final Fantasy XI, by far the most popular gaming IP out of all of those, has 600k subscribers total. That's PC, Xbox 360 and Ps2 combined and i think it's safe to say the vast majority are on the PC version, so if a game like that is doing poorly, what do you expect a game like Champions or Age of Conan will do? Look around at console gaming community, there is almost no hype or anticipation for these games whatsoever.

We are not just talking about MMORPGs

Yes we are talking about MMORPGs because you're claiming Aion can easily reach 1 million subscribers. Aion is an MMORPG, not an MMOFPS or MMORTS or any other mmo sub genre yet to be invented. Besides, using those genres as an argument is just as silly as using an offline fps as an argument for off line RPGs.

We should also include free to play games.

No we don't. We're talking about subscribers, a person who plays an mmorpg for free is not a subscriber, nor does it mean that free to play gamers are interested in p2p games because you know, that's kinda the whole point they are playing a free game.

You're comparisson to tv shows is just absurd. TV's have a MUCH larger target audience than mmorpgs have. That comparisson is just as ridiculous as the one is to ford. Look at the media that you're dealing with, not with something that experienced growth under completely different circumstances and can in no way be compared.

You're simply making the same mistake many other people make. After the release of World of Waracraft, some people thought it was now completely normal for an mmorpg to reach 1 million subscribers. It isn't. The people who are playing WoW don't seem to be all that interested in playing other mmorpgs besides WoW because we don't see an increase in subscribtions besides WoW in the west.

Aion does not have an existing IP or a big famous developer behind its name. It has to appeal to the people who are already playing mmorpgs.
To reach 1 million subscribers in the west, you need more than just a good game. You need a big name developer and a big name gaming IP.

i don't get one thing , why the hell ppl want to get max lvl in 2 weeks ?? except that the game won't have any fun and chalange in it but you would be broke , you will be a lvl 50 ghimp with lvl 20 gear , i like the xp curve until now it let's u even your xp with your incomings , i have lvl 38 and 1.3 mill no crafing abilities learned and no gathering as well ( to laizzy for them ) so again why would ppl wan't to have lvl 50 and go in an instance and die 1 shoted by an elite? . As i stated in a previous post west market is rotten by wow and by his easy way of playing , it forgot the pleasure of working on a good character with a lot a friends online , they are just blabering about their way of playing with friends at lvl max wich is a big bulls.....it , more then 70% of parties for high lvl instances in wow are made of puggs ( hope i wrote it well) so there is your friends , strangers in puggs. The only things they need to fix are, crashes and bots and loot table on elite mobs/bosses ( that kromede guy is a pain in the arse)

and no i am not a fanboy

Max level in 2 weeks?!

Hell with it I'm gonna make an MMO where you start at level 80 and are epic mad to begin with. Mwhahahaha! :rolleyes:

If people can max out thier char in the first month alone it's fail.

if you can max out in the first two weeks it's EPIC FAIL.

WTF was NC soft thinking. It also is bad that it is using the same gameplay and UI as WoW is.

it seems as if most MMOs coming out these days are WoW clones with little gimmicks to convince you you are not playing WoW with a new skin. Becuase that's what most MMOs are these days!

is AION's "wings" as hyped up as red bull's "wings"??? Please answer me this.

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

Yeah it is interesting.

Netcurse won't need to take responsability for his suggestions, he could just suggest whatever he see as fitting. Raise quest rewards by 15% or whatever solution. Presenting something definite like that, how come he knows that, what do he base that on, obviosly NCSoft doesnt.

I would eventually leave it until "after" to decide if it was a good ideas or not.

 

uh..What?

I honestly don't know if you are a Curse fan or just refuse to try reading, sorry.

This guy, Netcurse, writes an open letter. That is fine and all, everyone can. Kudos to him for doing it!

I'm not impressed though. He has alot of solutions in that letter. It's not to hard to come up with some. The hard part is when you have to take credit or blame for them, Netcurse can suggest whatever he see fit as he won't be the one hold responsible for them. Some random fan can whine whatever they will, suggest whatever they want to, but they will not be responsible if the suggested thing is implemented. No I'm not saying Netcurse is whining.

The biggest difference with his open letter and some random person on this forum writing his view is that Curse is somewhat wellknown in the MMORPG sphere.  And why should I believe that his solution is good ones, or even close to? Because he is a founder of Curse, nah that won't cut it.

He has solutions to what he see as a problem but we will not know until the changes have been done if they worked out or not, assuming that they will be done for the sake of argument...

I do believe that NCSoft on the other hand should be able to tell if it is viable solutions. And I also thing it would be interesting if they do reply to this.

Simple--Most of the NA audeience is tasteless.

It's what makes Miley cyrus, britney spears, kanye west, and boring shitcoms like sex and the city, soap operas, and mcdonalds popular.... HITTING THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR!

American companies market to the lowest common denominator becuase they want "accessibility" to the absulote lowest standards. This also applies to gaming in general now. We have companies (Blizzard) trying to get as many subs as possible.... in order to do that they will have to sacrifice the hardcore gamers (few$) for the casuals (many$$$$$).

I am really starting to fear for humanity now.

This is the same country who glamourises octomom,paris hilton, beer bellies, and MILFs.

Originally posted by SporkWitch

In summary:

To fix Aion, make it WoW, where you can level to the cap in a week, and mods cause everything to become a "who has a thousandth of a percent better damage? the rest of you are noobs!" game in every group.

The grind is minimal, oh no, whatever will I do, there's a couple levels that take a little longer, the world may end.  Take that time to hunt for some decent gear.  You're in the level range longer, take advantage of it (blues in the 20's, for instance, would last you a very long time; you can even get some yellows, if you get lucky).

The WoWtard needs to go back to his precious and stop trying to make every game on the market a WoWclone.  WoW's unimaginative and generic enough as it is, we don't need even more other games homogenizing the entire genre to be just like the piece of trash.  Some people do still like actually earning something, and playing a game, instead of just logging in, instantly hitting max level, and grinding end-game content to the exclusion of all else until an expansion comes out.  Enjoy the damn game, it's probably one of the best I've ever seen, and I've played pretty much all of them up until WoW and the shovelware clones that followed it.

It's idiots like these that have ruined every new MMO to date.

I can't hear the "Go back to WoW!" line any longer! It's getting old. It's getting old real fast!

You idiots keeps saying about him wanting to turn AION into WoW. He doesn't!

And these idiotic responses about how you can max level in WoW in a week. Please. A person with more then 1 braincell knows you can't. Not even if you bot 24/7.

He is saying that 15-20 days TOTAL PLAYED time should be enough to reach max level.

You know what that means? TOTAL PLAYED time? That means not just a week playing. It means 15-20 days of 24hours a day playing!

Wich means.... that it will still take the average gamer 3 to 4 months to reach the cap! As not everyone is out of a job or doesn't give a shit about their school and plays 16 hours a day. Most people don't play more then 4-5 days a week about 2-4 hours a day!

But it all doesn't matter anyway.

We all know NCSoft Korea doesn't give a crap about the West (hello Lineage 2).

So you fanbots will get exactly what you want.  A bot and RMT / cheater infested game.

Have fun with that!

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by mmaize

Very impressive.  I absolutely love Aion but this list is a great view into the problems that Aion is facing and moreover he provides some good ideas on solutions.

I'm interested to see how NCsoft responds.

Yeah it is interesting.

Netcurse won't need to take responsability for his suggestions, he could just suggest whatever he see as fitting. Raise quest rewards by 15% or whatever solution. Presenting something definite like that, how come he knows that, what do he base that on, obviosly NCSoft doesnt.

I would eventually leave it until "after" to decide if it was a good ideas or not.

 

uh..What?

 

I honestly don't know if you are a Curse fan or just refuse to try reading, sorry.

This guy, Netcurse, writes an open letter. That is fine and all, everyone can. Kudos to him for doing it!

I'm not impressed though. He has alot of solutions in that letter. It's not to hard to come up with some. The hard part is when you have to take credit or blame for them, Netcurse can suggest whatever he see fit as he won't be the one hold responsible for them. Some random fan can whine whatever they will, suggest whatever they want to, but they will not be responsible if the suggested thing is implemented. No I'm not saying Netcurse is whining.

The biggest difference with his open letter and some random person on this forum writing his view is that Curse is somewhat wellknown in the MMORPG sphere.  And why should I believe that his solution is good ones, or even close to? Because he is a founder of Curse, nah that won't cut it.

He has solutions to what he see as a problem but we will not know until the changes have been done if they worked out or not, assuming that they will be done for the sake of argument...

I do believe that NCSoft on the other hand should be able to tell if it is viable solutions. And I also thing it would be interesting if they do reply to this.

If they reply to it then they are fools. Curse runs a fansite and although it is the largest one it makes him no different than any other fan. Aion isnt my cup of tea but this letter is what is wrong with the MMORPG market and fans. They all scream and want this and that but in the end as been shown they go back to x game anyways or want more more more until the game isnt the game it started out as.  Its in NCSofts best interest not to reply and just let it sit there.

Wow its amazing how people really think Aion is another L2 just because they are having the same distributor. Sorry we know that Aion still has a long way to go till they have enough GMs to finally counter the bots and RMT market. But from what we see we definately have a large impact on the game. All the changes made within the last month were mostly done because of the West.

I for one think that the support is not really bad (just undermanned yet), especially if I remember all the problems wow had at its launch and months after! Aion runs smooth like silk, I havent heard of any server crash as of yet and all the players I know of are enjoying the game alot.

The problem with RMT was not that obtrucive 5 years ago... the RMT evolves every year more and more thus Aion has a bit more of those problems from the beginning on (believe me Wow had thousands of bots by themselves - they just had a bigger GM force to actually counter it). But if people would actually use the really good thought out bot report function in this game we wouldnt really have a problem with them - and I am pretty sure over time NCSoft will do their best to not make this game another L2!

I really cant here those cryings anymore, omg a bot game from Korea... in Aion they put so much details and fun in... I havent experinced this anymore in any MMO since WoW (just look at the large 40+ and complex Steel Rake ini) - its not even comparable to L2 in any way! Surely the game is not that easy to play... you really need good groups which can actually play... but I for one love this much more than all those stupid games which put every casual feature wish in to please the masses and show the individuals the end of the stick...

Originally posted by remixedcat

Max level in 2 weeks?!

 

Hell with it I'm gonna make an MMO where you start at level 80 and are epic mad to begin with. Mwhahahaha! :rolleyes:

If people can max out thier char in the first month alone it's fail.

if you can max out in the first two weeks it's EPIC FAIL.

 

WTF was NC soft thinking. It also is bad that it is using the same gameplay and UI as WoW is.

 

it seems as if most MMOs coming out these days are WoW clones with little gimmicks to convince you you are not playing WoW with a new skin. Becuase that's what most MMOs are these days!

 

is AION's "wings" as hyped up as red bull's "wings"??? Please answer me this.

did you even read netcurses post? he said 10-15 days played, ie:24 hours playing, not two weeks to max level.

do you have any idea how long that is? its about 360 hours, which if you aren't insane would be broken up in to 2-8 segments, which would be about two months if you played it everyday for 4 hours.

as for your other stuff, Wows Ui is good, it works well and it can be pretty easily modded, people like the ui wow has, explain to me why you wouldn't use something people like and add to it?

no, everything is an EQ clone including Wow, Wow copied eq and even had EQ players as Devs

Aion hyped up the wings thing more than anything in the game, heck half the videos they put out were about wing related stuff!

the only epic fail i see is on  this thread, failure to read what was written by netcurse.

If he meant 360 hours plus, he should have just called it that and not using silly terminology.

When I say I worked for 3 days, ofcourse i'm refering to the past 3 days. I'm not saying I worked for 72 hours.

When you say I played a game for 3 days, ofcourse people are going to assume that you played the game for 3 days, not that you played for 72 hours.

The biggest problem for Aion is not that its core game is bad it is nt but the release has been a bit of a mess . Then again this happens with most mmos . What Ncsoft failed to do was recognise the negative responce to the ques which led to people feeling like they d paid for something they wer nt getting . Lots of people left in the first two weeks and went back to thier previous mmo ( unfortunatly WoW for most players ) . I know of whole guilds from that game which were going to move to Aion which are staying put now . If they offer a welcome back month to the players that subbed in the first month when they sort out some of the issues that are dogging the game at present as compensation to those feeling ripped off they could end up with a very successful mmo . Sadly they wont and instead of 1-2 million subs in the west a month they ll end up with 300k and they ll only have them selves to blame because short to term greed will win out over long term profit .

This was the game that some idiotic reviewer gave a 8.7 to lately.  It seems that the ability to review something objectively is a lost art.

Aion is just another eventual 300k MMO here in the west, nothing really special when you get down to it.  The problem with this game is that it is doing very well in the eastern parts of the globe, they are not going to change things in this game much to accommodate the western audience.

Not to say the game is not fun to play, it is, just that I don't see much longevity built into it.

---

Originally posted by remixedcat
Simple--Most of the NA audeience is tasteless.
 
It's what makes Miley cyrus, britney spears, kanye west, and boring shitcoms like sex and the city, soap operas, and mcdonalds popular.... HITTING THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR!
 
American companies market to the lowest common denominator becuase they want "accessibility" to the absulote lowest standards. This also applies to gaming in general now. We have companies (Blizzard) trying to get as many subs as possible.... in order to do that they will have to sacrifice the hardcore gamers (few$) for the casuals (many$$$$$).
I am really starting to fear for humanity now.
This is the same country who glamourises octomom,paris hilton, beer bellies, and MILFs.

---

Seriously, lay off MILFs man, just don't go there.

Originally posted by Gameloading

If he meant 360 hours plus, he should have just called it that and not using silly terminology.

When I say I worked for 3 days, ofcourse i'm refering to the past 3 days. I'm not saying I worked for 72 hours.

When you say I played a game for 3 days, ofcourse people are going to assume that you played the game for 3 days, not that you played for 72 hours.

silly terminology? every mmo uses that terminology, go on any mmo and type /played, it says how many hours and days you've played in total.

of course they wouldn't believe you played for 72 hours, but thats two different contexts.

i had hmm 108 days played on eq, but i have been playing nearly 10 years, those 108 days are over 9 years, thats in total.

it might have been more i had a lot of chars.

this comes down of course to people not reading what netcurse wrote, strange that mno folks who should know the difference between /played and normal usage of the word don't get it.

oh well.