Lol even faster than fastest.............I didn't know it was possible.

How about you let everyone start at 80, since that's where the real game begin.
How about making 1 to 79 more fun instead of allowing players to skip the content all together?

When the devs will understand that the best part of a MMORPG is the journey not the destination?
You need to make the journey more fun so people won't rush to end game.

Slower progression + better content = longer subscriptions
Very simple formula

Originally posted by ste2000

How about making 1 to 79 more fun instead of allowing players to skip the content all together?

 

That's always been my thought. If you make it faster to miss your content then there really isn't much to say about the value of that content. It's expendible.

What a shame.

Originally posted by ste2000

Lol even faster than fastest.............I didn't know it was possible.

How about you let everyone start at 80, since that's where the real game begin.
How about making 1 to 79 more fun instead of allowing players to skip the content all together?

When the devs will understand that the best part of a MMORPG is the journey not the destination?
You need to make the journey more fun so people won't rush to end game.

Slower progression + better content = longer subscriptions
Very simple formula

How very true. The problem is the constant shifting level caps too. It always keeps the game top heavy to adjust caps and add so much top end content but nothing for lower levels. If every xpac was like EoF then they would be in fine shape but they are not. I love EQ2 but making the curve faster is not the answer. Develop the whole game and no one would care.

Originally posted by ste2000

Lol even faster than fastest.............I didn't know it was possible.

How about you let everyone start at 80, since that's where the real game begin.
How about making 1 to 79 more fun instead of allowing players to skip the content all together?

When the devs will understand that the best part of a MMORPG is the journey not the destination?
You need to make the journey more fun so people won't rush to end game.

Slower progression + better content = longer subscriptions
Very simple formula

Because in any level-based game, it IS the destination that matters. The journey is just shit you have to do on the way to get there. It holds no value and no meaning other than a means to an end.

Why should I waste my time grinding out an uber set of level 50 gear when I'll replace it in 5-10 levels? Why should I fool around and take my time from level 20-30 when the good stuff doesn't start till 40, and even then it's worth doing once just to say you've done it - there's no real reward until you get to max level. And even that reward only lasts until the next raise in level cap.

I spend the same amount of time IRL playing with my friends at max level and pre max level. Why should we waist our time (and by extension our money) when it doesn't matter?

And don't even try to tell me it's about "the story." It's an MMO, the story is an afterthought if it even exists at all. What interesting stories and lore there are can usually be done at max level anyway.

The only reason companies don't start people at level cap is because it'd screw their bottom line. In any level based game, a disproportional amount of time is spent on content that you will only do once, unless you make alts. As a result, content is thin when you reach max level and going back to do lower level content is a waste of time as far as progression is concerned. And if you aren't a progression oriented player, then I fail to see the problem in first place. Go back and do every little nook and cranny when you hit the max level, it'll still be there.

The entire level-driven concept is to blame. it's a horrible idea from the get-go and sadly, few people have the balls to challenge the paradigm. It's easier to appease their producer by saying "we're going to do what we know makes a little bit of money" and then act all surprised when people complain non-stop about it.

Lets not forget that unless a certain new player is playing on one of about two servers, that individual is going to find EQ2 to be extremely top heavy (I should know), and the vast majority of time spent leveling up will be a lonely experience.  It's not to say that the PVE content in EQ2 is "bad," but the majority of players roaming around in these zones are mostly alts of high level players with a few new guys scattered throughout.  It's not as bad as it sounds as most games that have been out for years have relatively the same problem -- see LoTRO, WoW, SWG, EQ, etc.  Many times, at least for me, I felt like somewhat of a charity case, especially in games which are much older such as EQ or that rarely see new players such as SWG.  I have fun while leveling up, but at the same time, I like my older games to have a faster leveling pace so that I don't feel so inferior for months on end.  To me, the "journey" is enjoyed to the fullest when I make that journey with the vast majority of other players.  Ample amounts of players are lined up to to just about any and every bit of content, players pack the zones with chatter all generally just as clueless and lost as I am, and I simply like the idea of learning the game alongside everyone else instead of having to play catch up against players who've been living off of said game for years on end. 

Last time they did this to make it fast i quit., lol

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Lets not forget that unless a certain new player is playing on one of about two servers, that individual is going to find EQ2 to be extremely top heavy (I should know), and the vast majority of time spent leveling up will be a lonely experience.  It's not to say that the PVE content in EQ2 is "bad," but the majority of players roaming around in these zones are mostly alts of high level players with a few new guys scattered throughout.  It's not as bad as it sounds as most games that have been out for years have relatively the same problem -- see LoTRO, WoW, SWG, EQ, etc.  Many times, at least for me, I felt like somewhat of a charity case, especially in games which are much older such as EQ or that rarely see new players such as SWG.  I have fun while leveling up, but at the same time, I like my older games to have a faster leveling pace so that I don't feel so inferior for months on end.  To me, the "journey" is enjoyed to the fullest when I make that journey with the vast majority of other players.  Ample amounts of players are lined up to to just about any and every bit of content, players pack the zones with chatter all generally just as clueless and lost as I am, and I simply like the idea of learning the game alongside everyone else instead of having to play catch up against players who've been living off of said game for years on end. 

 

  I think you are correct. I made the same point in a LOTRO thread earlier today.  After a few years, games become a meeting place for friends made along the way and folks hang out and maybe do some crafting. The lower and mid levels no longer interest the veteran players. I see lots of people in LOTRO and contrary to what some will say, EQ2 has a lot of players as well, they are just not in the lower and mid tiers of play.

Maybe if people actually bothered to read the dev post about this, you would know why they did it.

The 65 to 75 bracket was a total chore, as leveling from 1 to 65 was smooth, it was like hitting a concrete wall.

So they only made it smoother, so the leveling curve is smooth from 1 to 80.

And with combat XP ON / OFF toggle and the new AA slider, I fail to see the problem.

You can dissable combat XP and or move the AA slider and you will level a hell lot slower, and gain some extra AA along the way as bonus.

For people that enjoy the journey, they are extremely happy with the new AA slider.

So again. Players have the full power themselves with the tools at their disposal to fully tune their own leveling pace.

I have yet to see any MMO out there that offers such a service and functionality.

And people saying the content sucks and have no Lore or Story are just stupid trolls. As EQ2 has simply the best and most content out there of any MMO.

All the signature, Herritage, World, Epic quest lines are very well done and fun to do. And there are plenty of them!!

When it comes to story content, only LOTRO matches up with that.

Cheers

EQ2 has plenty of ways of enjoying all the content at any level with mentoring and chronolocking if you miss it the first time. If you choose to grind fast and in one direction you only have yourself to blame for missing content. I do agree however they need to work a bit on the lower end soon, I don't want it to end up as bad as WoW where it's taken them 3 expansions to fill in content 1-60 again with anything hefty as far as content goes.

Originally posted by kelarcanus

Originally posted by ste2000

Lol even faster than fastest.............I didn't know it was possible.

How about you let everyone start at 80, since that's where the real game begin.
How about making 1 to 79 more fun instead of allowing players to skip the content all together?

When the devs will understand that the best part of a MMORPG is the journey not the destination?
You need to make the journey more fun so people won't rush to end game.

Slower progression + better content = longer subscriptions
Very simple formula

 

Because in any level-based game, it IS the destination that matters.
 

No it s not, that's your idea of an RPG, except your idea is not actually what an RPG is.
The destination is the end in any RPG not the beginning, like it happens so frequently in recent MMORPGs.
What makes an RPG enjoyable is the journey that brings you to your destination, and the journey should be very long in order to give you many hours of fun.
If you played any offline RPG you know what I mean, when you get to the point when you have everything and cannot achieve anything else, you stop playing.
The same happens for the online RPGs or MMORPGs.
AoC + WAR + Aion to name few, take 2 months to reach the end game and  this is when those games subscription took a big hit.
A coincidence? I don't think so, that's the RPG rule, you reach the destination you stop playing.

The people who doesn't enjoy the journey in MMORPGs are the people who do not usually play RPGs at all.
Probably you are one of them, you probably prefer something like Planetside in a fantasy world, where you don't need to level up in order to compete with others.

Fair enough, I am all for diversification.
Problem is that lately almost all the MMORPGs are going towards that category and they are drifting away from the RPG roots, which leaves many RPGs fans without a game.
And the funny thing is that the RPG system is the one who benefit the longevity of the game by slowing down the quitting thanks to the leveling system
By allowing players to level so fast, the devs are committing commercial suicide, I really don't understand why they are allowing people to skip all the content rather than slowing down the progress, of course by creating wonderful content otherwise everything will turn into a grind which is not good either.

EQ2 problem?
10 new players start, 5 of them do not like the game and quit, 4 of them like the game but after hitting the endgame in 2 months they quit, and 1 who likes the game and keeps playing.
What SoE has to do is to retain those 4, and allowing a faster leveling is hardly the solution.
I hope I get paid for my consultation, John Smedley

I think eq2 is unfairly hated on. It is a great game and really the only one with a non-trivial PvE end game. This in NOT WoW where you beat its' end game and are fully epic-ed out a week or two after hitting level cap. Players don't quit when they hit the level cap of eq2 because it can take a solid year or more of raiding before you have progressed to the hardest encounter in the game and gotten the best loot.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by ste2000

How about making 1 to 79 more fun instead of allowing players to skip the content all together?

 

 

That's always been my thought. If you make it faster to miss your content then there really isn't much to say about the value of that content. It's expendible.

What a shame.

As an L2 player, I would have thought you would understand that it isn't a lack of faith in existing content, but in the necessity to get new players into the population of veteran players a bit faster so they can enjoy the game the way the game was intended to play - as a group focused game.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by ste2000

How about making 1 to 79 more fun instead of allowing players to skip the content all together?

 

 

That's always been my thought. If you make it faster to miss your content then there really isn't much to say about the value of that content. It's expendible.

What a shame.

 

As an L2 player, I would have thought you would understand that it isn't a lack of faith in existing content, but in the necessity to get new players into the population of veteran players a bit faster so they can enjoy the game the way the game was intended to play - as a group focused game.

That's a pile of bulls with all due respect.

If the content is interesting people don't mind actually playing the game and they won't think about catching up with the veterans as soon as possible (although that would be the thought at the backof their mind).
This is true in particular because EQ2 is mainly a PVE game, so there is really no need to compete with the veterans.

RPGs (I am talking about single players) are made to enjoy the journey, everything is built in a way so that you enjoy the leveling.
The majority of MMORPG lost that important concept along the way somehow, and the leveling in all MMORPGs is boring and tedious (grind), so much that the only life line is to reach the end game as soon as possible, and play for your epic gear.

MMORPG developers need to learn how to make RPGs before making an MMORPG, unfortunately I believe that nowadays the background of MMO designers are "Call of Duty" or "Madden NFL" rather than "Baldurs Gate" or "Neverwinter Nights".

Originally posted by Novusod

I think eq2 is unfairly hated on. It is a great game and really the only one with a non-trivial PvE end game. This in NOT WoW where you beat its' end game and are fully epic-ed out a week or two after hitting level cap. Players don't quit when they hit the level cap of eq2 because it can take a solid year or more of raiding before you have progressed to the hardest encounter in the game and gotten the best loot.

I agree with ya man, it is a great game, and it has a really challenging end game that can keep a player enthralled for a long time. But it is so poorly optimized and runs like crap, I just can't bring my self to sub to it. I hope they get the game running good enough for me to enjoy it someday.

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Originally posted by kelarcanus

---

Originally posted by ste2000

Lol even faster than fastest.............I didn't know it was possible.

How about you let everyone start at 80, since that's where the real game begin.
How about making 1 to 79 more fun instead of allowing players to skip the content all together?

When the devs will understand that the best part of a MMORPG is the journey not the destination?
You need to make the journey more fun so people won't rush to end game.

Slower progression + better content = longer subscriptions
Very simple formula

---

 
Because in any level-based game, it IS the destination that matters. The journey is just shit you have to do on the way to get there. It holds no value and no meaning other than a means to an end.
 
Why should I waste my time grinding out an uber set of level 50 gear when I'll replace it in 5-10 levels? Why should I fool around and take my time from level 20-30 when the good stuff doesn't start till 40, and even then it's worth doing once just to say you've done it - there's no real reward until you get to max level. And even that reward only lasts until the next raise in level cap.
 
I spend the same amount of time IRL playing with my friends at max level and pre max level. Why should we waist our time (and by extension our money) when it doesn't matter?
 
And don't even try to tell me it's about "the story." It's an MMO, the story is an afterthought if it even exists at all. What interesting stories and lore there are can usually be done at max level anyway.
 
 
The only reason companies don't start people at level cap is because it'd screw their bottom line. In any level based game, a disproportional amount of time is spent on content that you will only do once, unless you make alts. As a result, content is thin when you reach max level and going back to do lower level content is a waste of time as far as progression is concerned. And if you aren't a progression oriented player, then I fail to see the problem in first place. Go back and do every little nook and cranny when you hit the max level, it'll still be there.
 
The entire level-driven concept is to blame. it's a horrible idea from the get-go and sadly, few people have the balls to challenge the paradigm. It's easier to appease their producer by saying "we're going to do what we know makes a little bit of money" and then act all surprised when people complain non-stop about it.

---

I believe this serves to illustrate the continued subjective debate over MMORPG game play and its interpretation. EQ and EQII are very substantive games. They are intended to be experienced with a little more attention to detail than a mad dash to get your character to 'the fun stuff', which is a matter of opinion. What's fun to one person isn't necessarily fun for another.

Its understandable that there aren't a lot of new players buying the game, so there is a sense of urgency to catch up to the 'active content'. The fun shouldn't entail pressure to get to that active content. Sentinel's Fate will introduce a new starting area (Halas), which may encourage people to create new characters. This may be a good opportunity for some, however you may be dealing with a lot of higher level players who are Power Leveling their new characters.

This process seems to go a lot easier if someone is in a guild. I'm fortunate enough to be in a guild where new players are welcome and you can typically find people to group with. I plan on returning to the game shortly after the expansion.