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World of Warcraft News - Ron Paul Supporters March on WoW
Posted by Keith Cross on Dec 28, 2007 | 125 comments in our forums
WoW Insider is reporting that supporters of Republican Presidential Candidate Ron Paul will be staging a march in support of their candidate on World of Warcraft's Whisperwind server.
Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul's internet regiment has come to World of Warcraft-- a group of his supporters are planning to form a guild on Whisperwind and do a march from IF to Stormwind (which means they'll probably be Gnomes or Dwarves, which is too bad, because I liked the idea of "Trolls for Ron Paul") on New Year's Day at 8:30pm EST.
Now, we here at WoW Insider are politically neutral when it comes to Warcraft, so we won't advocate joining these guys (and we also won't advocate forming a "Horde for Hillary" guild to oppose them). But we are 100% in support of bringing widescale opinion expression of any kind into the game itself, so this should definitely be a fun event.
;)
Read more here.
Undoubtedly, this is a clever move as I'm sure it'll even make it newsworthy for CNN. But I really fear where this will lead, as I think this will be precedent setting for other "causes".
hah what a joke.. Ron Paul doesnt even know what WoW is i bet.
Let's hope some GMs (real ones) will attend and immediately ban them (permanently) for gross violations of TOS and EULA.
Otherwise, where will it end.
Real Life should stay in the Real World.
To bad Whisperwind is not a PvP server.
Now THAT would be funny if the entire parade was wiped out by the Horde !
What a hoot that would be. :)
everyone go get there level 70 horde toons and lets go killum
This seems inappropriate to me, for the reason that games are for many of their players an escape from the real world and its issues. Then people intentionally drag those issues straight into a game, for campaigning?
Come to think of it, that's another reason why Second Life isn't a game. :P
For some reason I find this incredibly amusing. Plus, from a Sociology perspective this is really neat stuff. Complain all you want about getting THEIR real life into YOUR fantasy land, but bleed over is fascinating stuff. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out...
as interesting as this might sound - please, keep real life stuff in the real world. most, if not all, go to wow, or whereever, to relax, have fun, etc., and usually real life things are just not part of that (even if some guilds perhaps have a structure close to real life companies, but it still is within the game realm).
Go to second life, there is enough real life stuff there. geez.
Anyone actually read the string where they talk about it? It's obvious that most people have no clue what WoW is... they'll just show up like sheep.
Only in wow lol
WOW becoming a political front for Presidential Candidates, whats next Taco Bell refusing to serve illegal mexicans?
Surely this is because the young people support Ron, and because of this a clever idea to place it within WOW to support him makes sense. But whats that say for Rons supporters, that they are all worthy of bubbling and hearthing out when the going gets bad. Sadly this guy has more fun exciting new support changes then anyone I seen in the last 20+ yrs. Within that time period where technology still had enough pull to do some cool things like this. I say if they want to do this in game then Blizzard should stop it. Making others be around political or religious stuff in game is against the EULA for the game.
Pretty cool though, Ron is never going to win.
this is hella funny! the only REAL republican if you look at the party historically
i wish they would do it on spirestone just so i can get a group to gank them LOL. whoever is on that server should make a guild against it and then fraps attacking them all.
10G to the first person to call him a NOOB.
I can hear the story on CNN now.
"Ron Paul supporters gathered on the Whisperwind server to rally support for the upcoming election. After addressing the almost nonexistent crowd a folly of questions ensued consisting of 'Would you like to PWN some Noobs?' and 'HOWZ WILL U MKE AMERICAZ UBER!!!!1111'
Fantastic.
Say who? The talking heads on TV? Lets take Huckabee for example. The Media claims he's a contender, but here's the problem: he has less than 1 million in the bank. Even McCain has more money for campaigning than Huckabee, and both generally poll less than Ron Paul on popular unscientific polls, and straw polls. If that doesn't make you wonder what's going on, then maybe nothing will. Here's a hint: by the nature of reality contradictions do not exist, whenever you are facing one; check your premises, you will find that one of them is wrong.
-- Brede
I don't think Blizzard can stop this, whether against the TOS or not. They can certainly try. All players will have to do is find someone with a spare account that will create the guild, and everyone else get Trial accounts for the march.
I completely understand their reasoning behind it. They don't want to be seen as publicly supporting anyone, which will very well happen if political activists hold activities like this. The only way that Blizzard can avoid showing support is to open it so anyone can feel free to show support. Warcraft isn't Second Life, but it is still just as much a community with real people.
Also, I think the reason they are doing it on a PvE server is just so others can't interfer.
Once heard in the backwoods of Florida...
"Ma, it's time fer me ta go vote."
"Ok, Pa. Hurry back, now'
A few miles down the road, just outside the polling location, a man with a shotgun laying across his shoulder appears and approaches Pa. "Who ya votin' for, Mr. Pa? I hear that Jeb Bush looks to be a mighty fine candidate if ya know what I mean."
"Well, sir, I was plannin' on votin' for the other guy."
"If ya know what's good for ya, ya're gonna just turn right back around and go right back home."
"Now that you mention it, I do kinda like that policy Mr. Bush has on poor, uneducated folk."
(Note: Although these practices have ended in recent years, they were common practice through various laws. Southern states were the worst, though they could be found thoughout the entire Union. I only pick on Florida because of the 2000 election.)
I would hate to see this happen in WoW or any other MMO. I don't want to see real-world politics in a game of any kind. If this were to become commonplace, I would quit playing the MMO that allowed it.
Ron Paul and his support people should have more consideration for the people who are playing the game and want to do so in relative peace. This will not raise awareness of him or his platform, it will raise resentment.
As son as their website sends me a registration confirmation for signing up, I will be posting in their forum my opinion about this idea. I hope others will do the same.
Why not do this? It's not like WoW hasn't been actively taking over media outlets itself (South Park episodes etc).
As a one-time stunt by one candidate, I don't think of it as a problem. Rude, but easily ignored. However, the potential precedent is alarming to me. I will not play an MMO and be bombarded with real-world politics!
Disgusting
So, do Canadian, EU, Asian, and other nations players get to file grievances against Blizzard for allowing political parties from the U.S. to campaign, when the Canadian, EU, Asian, and other nations have no interest in this and are not served in any way by this, but are basically being forced to watch this crap?
Also, are all the other Presidential hopefuls going to be given equal time, as U.S. law requires that if you give one party advertisement in any form of media ( and video games are media ), you must provide the same to the other candidates as well.
So, get ready to leave the game if Blizzard allows this, as then EVERY POLITICAL PARTY will have the right to do this, as will the political regimes of EVERY COUNTRY OUT THERE who has even 1 player in WoW.
I know its only 1 server and its not even my server but jesus christ ...leave the politics out of the games please. If it were my server only a few stragglers might make it from getting corpse camped, lol.
ITs cool Ron Paul has 0% chance of being elected and this should move him an entire -1% in the polls.
Sadly he is the only one also worth a hill of beans in all parties.
so true, lol.
Exactly. I agree.
I know that I would get pretty sick of it if people were staging in-game protests and demonstrations and political rallies every month or so in a game I was playing. Because if they allow it for one group they have to allow it for others.
How would you like to see pro-abortion / anti-abortion rallies in your game? Gay rights parades? Neo-Nazi rallies? And the list goes on.
Do we really want all of that stuff brought into our game worlds? I know I don't.
I agree with the other posters - keep this political and other real world garbage out of the realms where people PAY to go to enjoy themselves. This could easily spiral out of control if this precedent is not quashed by blizzard gm's and make other alternative mmo's more appealing. At the very least flag them all pvp! and let the subscribers deal with them.
Im surprised theres so much opposition to this. Sounds like a lot of fun and not much if any harm.
Don't you have to be 18 to vote? Seems like they would be missing their demographic here.
Great sense of humor.
Marches of any kind are fun, so I don't get what the big deal is. Mmorpg's should have change and large social gatherings, it's what keeps it fun - so stop complaining :P If you want your "relative peace" turn off your public chat and go sit in Darnassus, or just logout of WoW for a whole day if it's such a big deal.
Seeing how this could just be free publicity for WoW, I wonder how much they would do to stop it.
Once all those level 6 gnomes hit Burning Steppes, they'll have a pretty good foretaste of what their experience during the election is going to be like.
But I'm not on that server...
It's total BS if they leave this go on and not do anything about it. Like many other posters here they disagree to having this go on in game.
This sort of 'event' is something I'd expect to see in Second Life, instead of in WoW.
Either way, they'll have to finally start making those big decisions they've been avoiding like the plague for so long. Is the publicity worth the backlash? In an international game like this, how legaly secure could the eula possibly be, anyway? This is really interesting though!
Ron Paul "What?? I thought you could make a Troll Mohawk, Mister T. said it!"
Um no, actually it's leading in the straw polls even against Romney. Effectively, you're buying into what the Media is telling you and not what is actually going on. It's sad that you listen to talking heads and not to what's has been said.
-- Brede
Do they not understand they are just making a great GOP candidate look bad?
If anymore things come up about Ron Paul being related to WoW I'm going to have to remove the Ron Paul 2008 sign from my yard.
I am a Ron Paul supporter - and I am glad to hear this in only the sense of it representing more Ron Paul supporters - but for the love of all that is good - Stop This Moronic idea, you are only giving the media fuel for mockery, derision and scorn
For the Ron Paul campaign to be a success, he needs the respect and admiration of the mainstream media and populace - stunts like this will only chip away at his chances, because like it or not you will not be taken seriously prefacing any political opinion with, effectively, "I am a WoW player and I support.."
I am not saying you can't play WoW and have well informed political standings so no flame war necessary- I am saying be practical, look from a bigger perspective, one of not how things should be in your mind but how things are. To beat the political good ol boy network and their following sheep at their game, we need to play the game their way and win - and the 'game' involved here is not an online MMO. Don't give them ammunition to belittle the movements for change, because mainstream media and candidates can and will do so. Swallow your pride and keep you political voices where they 'belong' (again, my use of this word is subjective, but factual at this time)
Its not that serious I assure you. Ron Paul will not fly or fall on the actions of a few on a server in a video game. If a person doesn't have enough sense to appreciate what Ron Paul has to say on his own merits then it is their own stupidity or spiritual blindness that is the issue. I have no issue with this display, I appreciate and applaud it, my problem comes from the mindless numbnutz that fear the destruction of their gameplay experience more than the destruction of their country. People like that don't deserve freedom. Our founding fathers are corkscrewing in their graves.
"In order that the masses themselves may not guess what they are about we will further distract them with amusements, games, pastimes, passions, people's palaces...Soon we shall begin with the press to propose competitions in art, in sport of all kinds; these interestswill finally distract their minds from questions in which we found ourselves compelled to oppose them."
- William Cooper from his book Behold a Pale Horse,cptr 15 Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion,pg 303
It's just a symptom that the bread and circuses don't matter anymore. If people don't take back their lives, they might as well hug the chains of their masters. I guess the fact that I don't watch television anymore means I'm "off the plantation."
-- Brede
Amusing but I really don't care. Real life invaded video games and MMORPGs long before Ron Paul...
I don't feel any more immersed in a universe where spiders drop swords and my character's motivation for living is to kill the same bosses (aren't they dead already??) over and over for an epic weapon that everybody else already has.
Reborn your the numbnutz. Just because someone doesnt want real world polotics in there game is no reason to assume they dont give a crap what happens to there country. Thinking that is simply idiotic. ITS A FREAKING GAME. Real world does not belong in GAMES. I play a fantasy GAME because I want to get away from the real world once in a while. Hell I even took issue seeing Christian guild spam in games. Like someone else said....what about thoes people that dont even live in the USA. Why should they have to deal with crap involving USA polotics?
Even more I laugh at your quote. With your (rather uninformed) logic and that quote why are you even on these forums? The people I worry about are people like you, who cant understand the diffrence between entertainment and religion/politics. People play games, Watch movies, Watch sports ect because they enjoy them and in most cases use them as stress relief from the real world. That is my issue with bringing the real world into games.
I don't see why people are so upset about this. Ron Paul isn't going to be President, anyways. He supports the constitution, and often expresses political ideals that would benefit the lower and middle classes. Since when has making sense gotten someone the Republican nomination?
Having an issue with the people who bring politics and other drama into your game is understandable, but how could such a thing be regulated without infringing on people's rights? You can cover your ears and bitch about what the game should be, but people are assholes and will just do or say whatever they want if given half a chance.
If anybody's really upset about this, they should just join in the march with NAKED DANCING NIGHT ELVES!
I'd support GM's permabanning these morons mainly because one of the reasons I play games is to get away from politics, and I'm what many would consider to be a political junky.
Frankly, even if Edwards, Dodd, or Kucinich supporters staged this, I'd feel the same way.
The catch is that Ron Paul supporters are borderline cultists.
They've made their way to SWG too. There's been a few pop up on Chilastra in Restuss spamming crap about it...I don't even know who Ron Paul is, not following American Politics and all :/ Usually I report them and they get logged out...hopefully SOE lets the Wardens use their silence powers on them :P
Lol that must be the most stupid idea ever
The smartest thing blizzard can do is pull the plug on the server, so they don't appear to be supporting any particular contestant. They can claim that the new players loging in 'crashed' the server
ROFLOL!! Can't wait...
Especially sociologists... and critics... and bloggers... and the people who has nothing to say but be anti-everything for-the-fun-of-being-anti...
ROFLOL!
All two of them that even know who this guy is are setting a precedent for us all to go into the games we play and ruin it with real life BS...
But hey, it is World of Warcraft afterall...
Maybe my Tauren Moogana will run for office and people can come march for me!
Yeah i must agree with the general sentiment - keep the rotten real world out of my lovely fantasy land.
I play mmogs to ESCAPE the rat bastard religious, political, and corporate zealots who hammer me with their degenerate propaganda all day long.
For the love of... do you even think about what you type?
How dare people express there politcal views in a neutral forum! Report! Ban! Suicide Bomb!
The fact is people have a right to be heard, no matter what you may think of their opinions. That's called progression. Moving society forward by fostering debates laced with candor. I know you, SOE, and the rest would like nothing better than to silence the teaming masses but fortunately your hate mongering agenda isn't shared by the leaders of the free world, however backward their other policies may be.
You might try taking an interest in the world around you instead of squatting on Chilastra reporting spam and watching tumbleweeds.
Keep your politics out of my game, jackasses!
What a bunch of tool-sacks. I don't care what your political affiliation is, I think it's annoying as all get-out when some pushy, self-rightious political lackies try to push their idiotic beliefs inside a GAME world, especially one that I might be in.
Try an separate public forums with privately owned game worlds and you may see what all the uproar is about.
blizzard policy is very clear on this one.
ANY group of players meeting in an area in numbers that disrupt others gameplay can result in measures from suspension, and could lead to the loss of your account.
all thats required is a good amount of lag before blizz sends 10 or so gm's to insta kill and teleport poeple to other zones while suspending their accounts.
wow is a business and their line will be, on any server, that politcal campaigning has no place in the high fantasy setting of azeroth. Advertising is also considered a bannable offense, be it for gold, or a candidate.
if you value your account i would highly suggest that you do not take part in any behavior that you know in fact, violates blizzard policy.
unlike other games, blizzard has at least 200 or so gm's on hand at all times just for north america. they are completely equipped to enforce policy on that many people and will do so without having to think twice about it.
i hope this post helps a few people.
Blizzard will allow it because it is free publicity for the game not just for Ron Paul but personally I believe that political agendas should not be present in games. Games are for people to tear away from real life for awhile and enjoy some entertainment, nothing more. Blizzard will be eating this up and loving it when they get their game mentioned on the news. It's just another publicity stunt in my opinion.
some of us know blizzard policy really well for a reason.
however, i am unable to tell you why or why not that may or may not be at this time.
its always funny when someone, no matter who they are, try to play with blizzard policy and wow game masters. they find out quickly, VERY quickly, that blizzard doesnt play when it comes to policy and proceedure.
I hope this BS march gets squased. I'm sorry, but a global MMO fantasy game is not the proper venue for American political hogwash. Either get these nut jobs out of my gaming (and back onto real life, where they belong), or give me the ability to butcher them at my will.
I think I make a fair request.
On the other hand, what does WOW have to gain by all this ? Hype and popularity. Blizzard has nothing to lose in this matter and everything to gain by it and even by any chance Blizzard doesn't allow it they still gain the hype over it which in their minds they are hoping they get more sales. It is just that simple. Sometimes people really need to start thinking outside the box and read between the lines.
PETA is planning on staging protests over the leatherworking profession and all the animal kill quests.
Representatives from the UN are now trying to bring peace between the Horde and alliance.
Maybe osama is hiding out in Outlands? Has anyone really really looked for him there?
Is Whisperwind a Role Playing Server? RP servers are for folks who don't want to be bothered with the real world. If you are on a non-RP server you should expect stuff like this. I am sure they will be respectful of your gaming, after all, they may one day want your vote!
Overreacting FTW
Also good point by Wickersham. Whisperwind is indeed not an RP server. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/realmstatus/
If you want to see more like this, go to Guildwars and watch the market chat. There was actually neo-nazis and christian interest groups recruiting side-by-side at one point.....sheesh.
People like that = insta-ban.
A game is a neutral forum for a reason. Everyone has a different religious agenda, political agenda, world-in-general agenda.
Furthermore, may I criticize you for being a different color than I am because it's just a game? May I criticize and ridicule you because you are not equal to me in some way because it's just a game?
Because guess what, as I said earlier, if it's okay for Ron Paul supporters to have a march ingame, then it's okay for the KKK to march ingame, it's okay for every political and religious person/persons out there to stage their own march regardless of what kind of nutjob from the borderline fringe they and their ideal may be.
In short, don't tell other people to think about what they type, when you yourself apparently aren't thinking at all.
it's amazing how people reacted over this....hardly any RP takes place even on RP servers....and the point has been made whisperwind is NOT a RP server. the real world is obvious everywhere in WOW, from quest names, and people, refrences to RL are everywhere, I.E. Fight club in undercity, refrences to the legend of zelda and many more. all you have to do is look at any chat on RP or regular server to see RL.
this seems a little blown out of preportion.
I am a Ron Paul supporter, After bush i think the only republican that can get elected is Ron Pual.
R3volution.
Ron Pual is 1337
But...alas i enjoy my time away from RL like the rest of you, and believe in seperation of goverment and games
i get the feeling you may have watched a few too many episodes of the x-files
Also, I live in New Zealand, to me it's irrelivent spam.
I'm from the UK and have not care which way or other HOWEVER this 'door' should never ever be allowed to open, as already said allowing this 'event' allows EVERYTHING to use gaming as a platform, whats next 'vote saxson' on a billboard in the middle of BF? Yes gaming is a big part of culture these days but I'm damn sure I don't want someone preaching 'covert to X religion' being spammed in the middle of a town in an MMO that I'm playing.. Thats what this 'event' will lead to..
At first I thought the title was Ru Paul Supporters... xD
Meh, Ron Paul is just another "might as well vote for a democrat because youre wasting your vote" canidate. Id love to have a Libertarian president rather than Republican and most definitely not Democrat...
RuPaul is running for president? What a boost for so many of WoW's shims!
WoW Sucks, So does he.
I read through these posts, and I see so much hatred. I see people trying to 'escape' their reality. What is it you hate? Why are you trying to escape? (There is another group of people that try to escape reality: they're called addicts... usually hard drugs, tobacco, alcohol, etc., but can be work, travel, or other concepts.) Until you can acknowledge those two facts truthfully, you will never see that there really isn't anything wrong with this. (It is against Blizzard TOS, though. I won't blame Blizzard for banning accounts. They are merely enforcing their rules and policies, even if I don't agree with them.)
Will it disrupt your game? It could, but I think that those who participate will not cause problems for others. (There's always a bad seed, though.) It just depends on how many decide to participate. I don't think it will be as many as you would see in Ironforge, Stormwind, or Shattarath City. (sorry if my spelling sucks, and I could be wrong.)
Those that think WoW or other MMOs are open forums should double check their understanding of what open means. Also, those that think they are closed forums need to double check, too. They fall in the middle. They are a subscriber based systems where you must follow the rules, or risk moderation and censoring. Open forums cannot, by defintion, be subject to either (and thus is the reason why you see so few effective open forums.)
Finally, double check the original post: Supporters are organizing this. I seriously doubt Ron Paul himself will be appearing in-game.
People play games for the same reason they read fictional books. Would you suggest the people who love to read stories and spend all their time in the library are addicts in need of treatment? The whole point is to leave the limitations of life and enter a world where you can do almost anything. Some people do become addicted to games, but surely you wouldn't make the obviously false argument that computer game addicts are harming society in the same way as a drug addict might.
I don't think you could actually claim that people who participate in this little gathering won't cause problems for others. I've seen the way Ron Paul supporters act in RL, and in the virtual world where the have access to /yell commands and various other things, I would imagine that they would be quite disruptive. Lets not forget that this in no way shape or form fits into the WoW world. That alone should get it stopped. Would you allow players who were against abortion to march in WoW?
I'm amazed that anyone would support Ron Paul. Not that it matters since he could never get elected and represents a viewpoint that has as much popularity as communism.
I would probably lose my job if Paul got elected because he wants to destroy almost every federal agency in the U.S. Most presidents try to create jobs, Paul wants to to hundreds of thousands out on the streets.
I cant figure out what he offers that's appealing to anyone except the super rich. All of his viewpoints are based on his faith based devotion to extreme right-wing laissez-faire capitalism. The man's also a religious nut.
this 100 worse then gold sellers, and i bet they have blizzard permission and nothing gonna happen to that guys.
Clearly you're a person that has limited experience with people who read books, watch movies, play videogames, participate in a table top games, watch live theatre, enjoy live orchestra, go to amusement parks, or watch TV shows, because professionals and fans alike, in each one of the above hobies, know of the word "immersion". It's a word that's generally used to describe whether or not a particular experience is captivating enough to help you escape your reality, and get sucked into the entertainment you've come to enjoy. Put simply, it's a term used to describe whether or not an experience is any good. That's not a simptom of addiction, that's a simptom of entertainment.
Here's a news flash - a large portion of art and entertainment revolves solely around the suspension of disbelief, otherwise known as escaping reality, or being immersed. This is the fundamental building block of fiction, and is required for the entertainment that billions of human beings have enjoyed through out history. Please, next time you decide to take it upon yourself to judge, atleast educate yourself a little on the topic you have at hand, or atleast the phenomenon (in this case, escapism) that you choose to publicly condemn.
Could not have said it better myself.
This is kind of like writing letters to NH or attending campaign events. Except for the part WHERE ITS IDIOTIC AND WON'T HELP AT ALL.
Get off your computer and start canvassing morons.
I support taking politics to the streets. Revolution for the win.
And it was said so much nicer and polite than I would have done.
time to train some big nasty into SW right about that point, let the death toll begin!
Xenojerk, I'm afraid it is the pathetically uninformed sheeple like yourself that are the bane of the not only of those that see the forest for the trees but for the cruel rulers of this world that will one day have you waiting in line for orderly disposal. Is it not possible that the ideas of which they speak, which encompass your arse's right to sit at a computer and say whatever YOU feel, the couple hours or so that a group in 1 zone on 1 of the seemingly hundreds of wow servers and the constitution that guarantees these freedoms supercede, for that brief surcease, your attempt to craft the +3 mithril backscratcher you were so hoping to pop? People like you are trained sheep being led by the myriad of judas goats to the slaughter. Maybe when its someone YOU care about sent off to die/kill for oil, when its YOUR freedom or property that is taken away based on suspiscion, maybe then you will actually formulate an opinion that isn't spoon fed to you on the local news and you will see the value of the freedoms that were once held so dear in this country. "Its a game" "Its my escape"...pathetic. If your house started to burn down while you were playing and someone tried to tell ya, would that interfere with your "escape" too? heh, you can always build another house, but can you rebuild the republic when its gone (see NAU)? I repeat, our forefathers are corkscrewing in their graves.
Now as far as being uninformed, here's a little test Ive posted previously, though I doubt you'll take it Xeno, to see if you are able to incorporate information into your thought processes that are not handed to you on a silver platter by govt sponsored schools.
-- Josef Stalin --
I also doubt you bothered to check the link under "we" in the quote posted previously, because that would infer that you actually have an interest in gathering information to make fairly informed decisions and maybe even come to conclusions via your own thought processes, not those some marketing maven pushes upon you. Disagreement based on information is 100% cool, willful ignorance most definately is not.
...and finally regarding the non-american players playing, no game takes place in a vacuum, I find talking to people from other places about their issues and ideologies fascinating, including their political ones, I would hope that an active, precocious mind could appreciate people expressing their views and ideas from a grassroots level, considering that is the norm worldwide.
Unplug and seek for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTN3s2iVKKI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08
Even nature has laws that it follows like cause and effect, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, or the law of entropy, all things in the universe tend towards chaos, nothing falls together, everything falls apart. If these laws display themselves throughout the observable cosmos, why then are we taught that the universe is random and that order came from the chaos of a Big Bang? Why do they teach things just happen, nothing means anything and no matter what, conspiracies are relegated exclusively to the realm of theory?
No, it's "equal or opposite" reaction, not just "opposite". But that's essentially what you've done here, taken a little bit of truth, omitted the rest, and added your own interpretation.
The universe does not lend itself to chaos and disorder. We see stars forming all the time. No one teaches that the universe if random, it's quite the opposite in fact.
You need to learn how to make your points with fewer links and fewer words. And FYI, linking to a bunch of youtube videos and Christians wack-job websites isn't going to score your many points in believability.
All I got out of all of that was that Science is bad, fossils are the bones of Jesus, and that it's perfectly acceptable to cram American Politics down the throat of a global community that's attempting to enjoy a little medieval fantasy. The great thing is, people like you wouldn't be tooting their horns and going on about how "great" this public expression is if the thing that was being publicly expressed were, let's say, Nazi rights, Pedophilia, racism, Muslim fanatacism, anti American sentiments, anti abortion / pro abortion opinions, a man's right to beat his wife, the death of God, etc. No, the only reason you happen to even support this bull hockey is because you support the bull hockey behind it.
.... and yet you call Xeno a sheeple? If you really want to point fingers at "what's ruining America", and accuse people of not thinking logically, maybe you should go find yourself a mirror, and point at that instead? Maybe that person might even give a crap about your finger pointing, or the ill-formed opinions behind them.
As far as the universe "lending itself to chaos" I am SPECIFICALLY making the point that if all things in the universe "tend toward chaos" according to the universal law of ever increasing entropy then why in the same instance do we see order expressed time and time again? Order that could not exist from a "Big Bang" according to physics as we are taught it. I have studied astronomy and astrophysics and they DO teach that all these ordered occurences come from the chaos of a Big Bang in theory, which I guess is easy for them to accept because they reject the idea of a creator right off. My point is the science of the universe (of which we are a part) as they present it contradicts itself and we should therefore question it even if its scholars do not.
As far as making my points with fewer links and fewer words, doesn't seem to matter as you apparently didn't read it thoroughly or in full to begin with. Perhaps it is you that should learn to better read what is written and better follow the train of thought of the author before posting a response that is not only misguided, unresearched and flawed, but shows to all what the sheeple mindset is really all about, laziness and overemotionality. I mean, I figured having videos with compelling evidence might better serve our single serving attention span populace, but for some like yourself its seems even a few sentences are too daunting a task to wade thru to discuss a point. I mean I put 1 christian website showing a piece of pottery with a triceratops on it, and then a link to show where the picture came from and I'm a posting a "bunch of Christian wackjob websites"? If it were a Buddhist website would that make it any better? Or Jewish? Or Hindu?The picture is posted where its posted, it is its content, not location at issue here. 2 links to the same site = bunch of christian websites and I'm the wackjob? Do you even know WHY you believe what you believe or is this all just more PC thuggery? Ah nvm. I know you've probably stopped reading this about10 lines ago, but in the hopes you squeak thru life reading the first and last sentence of parapraphs to glean information, here's a little advice: Read a book.
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."
--Dresden James
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSZqhqR5XKM
...and remember, when they offer you vaccines? Take em. When they take away your liberty for security? Applaud them and when they lock you up for being unpatriotic? Thank em for maintaining the integrity of the freest nation on earth. So help you God.
I'm going to put this bluntly, but I don't say it to be mean - a rambling and raving lunatic could likely have composed a more coherent post than the one you've subjected the readers of this forum to. Now, honest to God, I'm not saying this to be insulting, I'm saying it to make a point - you've lost touch with stability, and need to take a few steps back and think about the things that you say before you say them. Truth be told, I'd love to respond to your post, but the thought process behind it is just so utterly unfollowable and out of touch with reality that I just don't know where to begin, and as such, can't. Sane adults don't preface the things that they have to say by pointing fingers at others and calling people tired, childish names such as "sheeple", or "parrot". They order their thoughts into an easy to understand manner, and present them without subjecting the people around them to some kind of irrational tirade.
But, I will say this, since it seems that you assume that all people who are against this are somehow against Ron Paul, Liberty, America, and God - I know all about Ron Paul, and consider him to be one of the best presidential candidates that America has going for it right now. I don't agree with a few of his stances , such as his interest in increasing taxes on products made in America, his stance on Abortion, or his stance on gays in the Military - but as a whole, I think he's got alot of great opinions. Just to name a few - He's anti war, anti income tax, pro tighter borders, anti patriot act, anti war on drugs, anti defecit spending, pro lower & middle class, and pro internet freedom.
Even though I support Ron Paul, I STILL think that the fact that people plan to campaign for him in a global medieval MMORPG is an insane, infuriating thing to do. It simply shows utter disregard for a product that people pay to enjoy, and more importantly, utter disregard for other human beings.
All you've managed to prove to anyone is that you're an asshole and incapable of making points without looking down on others throughout the whole process.
The very notion that you would put together these sorts of arguments on a website devoted to MMORPGs doesn't speak well of your intentions. Did you get booted out of every forum on the internet devoted to discussing these topics so that you have to come to gaming websites to put forward your conspiracy nonsense?
Big Bang, Evolution, these are facts. If they weren't modern biology and astronomy simply wouldn't function. You're not smarter than the millions of scientists operating in every country on the planet who all arrive at the same conclusions. Think about it for just a minute.
Youtube videos and religious website aren't evidence. Any moron can post anything they want on the internet. Give me a peer reviewed source.
Yeah, I'm a real PC thug who doesn't read books.
Take your stuff back to www.godhatesfags.com
I think they're about at your level.
none of this discussion will change the fact that game masters will, without question or hesitation, action the account of any player, regardless of reason, political or religious affiliation, for any action that not only violates the terms of service agreement, but disrupts the play experience of any of blizzard's player's.
The policy enforcement in world of warcraft isnt taken lightly by any frame of the word. you break the rules and you will face the system. be you leroy jenkins, or ron paul, or any other popular figure. There are a lot more politicians playing world of warcraft than any of you might be aware of. they are not better than any of you in the high fantasy world of azeroth.
I'm not sure what your having trouble following. My initial point was a few hundred people marching in a video game for a couple hours to support the ideals that will save this country in real life is no great cross to bear. My second point was referring primarily to people who felt something has to be done about it, in some cases including pking the marchers. The US is being looted and destroyed by a rogue govt and something has to be done about people trying to fight it on such an innocuos level? C'mon. As you can tell i don't subscribe to the theory that game issues supercede real life ones, especially ones as important as the fate of this country. I referred to these people as numbnutz.
Next post, after calling Xeno a jerk and lamenting the mindset that allow people to be perpetually led astray, people thus referred to as sheeple, I questioned if the ideas the marchers supported superceded the mild annoyance they posed to some onlookers. Ideas that support your right to say whatever you feel when you want, private property rights, honest govt, ideas that are the foundation of this republic. I then go on to say that maybe when Xeno has to deal with some of the ills of this current regime personally he will see the value in the expression of dissent against it, in any venue. I then made the analogy that its the equivalent of being interupted from playing to be told your house is burning down, except that your house after all is said and done can be rebuilt, our nation cannot be.
Xeno also stated I was uninformed, so I placed a number of videos, pictures and articles that are not normally discussed on tv or in most schools to show that the things you think are facts aren't necessarily true because you are taught they are. For example, that "free energy" doesn't exist, or that man and dinosaurs are seperated by millions of years, techically speaking I made no assertion about evolution, just the timetable of man and dinosaurs existence. (I don't personally believe in evolution since the countless intermediate forms Darwin claimed would exist if it were true don't, and the precursor forms of animals like the horse, for example, have fossils side by side in the same strata of earth indicating they all lived at the same time and could therefore be their own unique, complete species. Also they have found countless fossils of animals like the horseshoe crab and various frogs and spiders that they claim are as much as 300 million years old and still look identical to the species today. Variation? Yes. Adaptation? Yes. Evolution? No) Even evolutionists struggle to maintain the party line:
"Despite the bright promise that paleontology provides a means of ‘seeing' evolution, it has presented some nasty difficulties for evolutionists, the most notorious of which is the presence of ‘gaps' in the fossil record. Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them..." (David B. Kitts, Ph.D. -- Zoology, Head Curator, Department of Geology, Stoval Museum, and well-known evolutionary paleontologist. Evolution, Vol. 28, Sept. 1974.
...but that's for another day. To continue, I then stated I hoped that players in foreign countries could appreciate the expression of opinion on issues and ideologies from a grassroots level seeing as thats the norm worldwide.
I then in my third post addressed D732's misstatement about Newton's 3rd law of Motion by listing it and citing my source. I then clarified my point about what we are told about all this order coming from the chaos of a Big Bang which defies the law of entropy ( AND technically the Law of the conservation of matter which states that matter is neither created nor destroyed. In other words where did the initial explosive matter really come from?) Fact is the Big Bang theory is no fact and was somewhat "exploded" itself some time ago: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFDD173DF930A35752C0A967958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2
and thirdly addressed his point that my posts are too lengthy and filled with too many links. Thats an opinion, I don't dispute his opinion about my posts, I cite sources and put evidence in front of you to better illustrate what I'm saying and give the reader something to actually dissect and disprove if so inclined. I do however have a problem with the fact he clearly didn't look at the links to see what they contained before disparaging them. Real arguments I respect, rhetoric sounds like a post-hypnotic suggestion adhered to because its speaker is merely following its directive.
Finally my first post to you,Ten. "and of course the requisite parrot". First of all you misquote me for the amusement of some (actually not a problem aside from the misquoting part
, I have no problem being made fun of) then make conclusions that in no way reflected anything I was saying and put me into some sort of preconceived cube that makes a good pinata for the majority opinion. This makes it appear as though you are attacking based on someone else's ire with me. "Parroting" their position without disputing mine on the merits of your own arguments. I then go on to state that I don't care what people say, its their mouth, its their opinion, I defend their right to express it.
You then reply with a post that at least displays some understanding of what Ron paul is about and expresses your position on what he has to say to some degree, but still clearly misses the mark in thinking that I think disagreeing with the display means your against Ron Paul since my first post was in response to a Ron paul Supporter who thought this would hurt his credibility. I believe a) it won't, b) its not that big a deal, and c) the free expression of ideas supercede any game. Besides wtfrig do I care who you support? That's your business, my problem comes with people who have a problem with those that exercise their rights, I don't care if its Bush supporters, Hillary supporters, whoever, if its not illegal activity, it should be protected.
I didn't say anything about immersion. You're reading more into my post than I actually stated. Then again, maybe I stated more than I intended. They're just magnetic fluctuations on a peice of metal somewhere. <shrug>
There is a difference between immersion into a medium and suspension of disbelief. They may be intertwined, but there is a difference. In a movie, book, theatre, or other medium, it only requires work of the creator and the observer. An MMO has very little related to these mediums. Group mediums, such as MMOs, live action role-play, and others, require ALL participants to perform within the definition of the creator in order to create immersion. It also requires all participants to agree to what the vision of the creator is. Failure of one participant breaks the immersion of all participants. On non-role play servers, this is impossible, as many aren't there to do role play. (It's highly difficult on RP flagged servers outside of your group of guild.) (Oh, and by the way, we're not talking about a large portion of art and entertainment. We're talking about MMORPGs here.)
It comes down to picking and choosing in MMOs. I made an earlier post that expressed my opinion on the matter. I followed up that post because all I read was complaints. If my statements don't apply to you, then you should be safe to ignore them.
Imagine what your life would be like if someone like this gets serious political power.
Oh well, keep drinking the Koolaid Brainiac.. it's tasty!
- LC
It's not a roleplay server and it's no different than having to see people with names like "Allurbase" as members of guilds like "iCritUnot". You all talk about immersion like there's enough maturity on WoW servers to have immersion.
Someone even brought reading a book or other forms of entertainment. Hello, don't you have commercials when you're watching most television shows? Yes, you do. Sure, you have some on HBO/Cin/Sho, etc that are commercial free, but most popular shows have commercials.
And how often do you see Chuck Norris chat followed by "Foror's Compendium of Dragon Slaying" spam? Yes, now that's immersion.
Completely laughable. Yes, when I think of immersion, I think of WoW. pft
Well, I actually did take part in this, and it was really quite fun. Very peaceful and calm, no account bans, no hoopla. I believe the guild master even contacted a GM beforehand to get a thumbs up first. Which he must of, because soon after we were on the march.
Because RP has huge grass roots support, things like this will come up. People from many walks of life like him, and because he doesn't have a "top down" type campaign, the skies the limit. So people will want to include him on their interests.
I can understand the desire to keep "Real World Issues" out of a game however. But throughout MMORPG history, real life and gameworlds were never able to fully divorce themselves. Think of the many threads here that revolve around the ever popular "OMG -your really a guy playing a girl toon??".
Realistically, the impact was not big at all. Perhaps a bit of a longer queue time, but thats its really. There was no malicious behavior, no real lag, etc. Along the way, we had a bunch of people /cheer and /dance with us. Some even joined us... including horde!
Someone fraps'd it and put a vid on youtube.. take a peek: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XDyheKhwWf8
- LC
This was a great thing. I really dont get people that are whining about this. We live in a time when politicians are wanting to intrude into our privacy and are being influenced by big media more than by people. Games are being pressured to conform to some peoples social mores. Ron Paul is for small government and for government staying out of peoples lives. Gamers should support this type of candidate. I have switched my registration so I can vote for Paul and I have sent his campaign money. We get what we deserve and if you want government to say what you can or cant play then just stay uninvolved.
Try hosting a Ron Paul march at the Superbowl this year, and see how people react. I suspect that you'd hear many of the same arguments that we've heard in this thread already .There's a distinct line that seperates "being involved" and "being involved intelligently". Put simply, there's a time and place for everything.
My argument still stands undebated that if the march were in support of pedophilia, Hitler, Islam, the Patriot act, internet control, or a number of other things that people have strong opinions about, a number of the same people who support this march would be against it. And, to address the whole comment of "Well, other people break immersion, so we can too!"- just because there are other instances where people and things are in the wrong doesn't mean that more wrong things and people should be allowed. This a very basic principal of order, and something that simply can not be refuted.
Making a comparison to illegal activities and despot dictators doesnt help your cause either. It still sounds like you are whining. Using terms like "undebated" and "can not be refuted" just shows that your argument is weak and needs the same language that preachers use to convey unrealistic concepts. Nice try though.
Ron Paul 08!
No It wasnt a good thing. Being INVOLVED doesnt include the time I use to relax .................
And Im not an idiot, it was no more than a ploy to gain nieve voters who think HE really feels them. Stay out of my damn games!
Plain and simple ........................
MMORPG's and politics dont mix! You lost a potential voter Ron Paul , let that be a lesson to any othe rpolitician trying do the same thing in the future!
Here is the deal though, If you want politicians out of your games, then support ones that want government out of our lives. This event was on just one server and in just the place the people were at. people should be excited about having some change. Stop being complacent sheep who support the status quo by your inaction and apathy. Do you know which candidates support net nuetrality? Do you even know what that is? These things affect gamers. Out of the hundreds of hours we spend "immersed" in our MMO fantasy worlds is it really such an inconvenience?
And now they have no right to say anything. They just screwed Blizzard over, with Blizzards' help by allowing it. Anyone who is prohibited from "marching for their cause", no matter if it's political, religious, fanatical, or just plain insane, they can sue the crap out of Blizzard for discrimination.
Congratulations to all you "patriotic" Ron Paul supporters for creating an open avenue for the ruination of a game people play for enjoyment, people who pay to play the game who do not share your view or care about your politics but apparently had no say in the matter.
And congratulations to Blizzard, for adding one more thing for the other game companies to add to the prohibited list in their EULAs. Too bad it's too late for you to do the same.
Wait 'til jack Thompson gets wind of the first lawsuit against Blizzard from the KKK or Greenpeace or PETA or the 700club or.........and the list goes on. Or when Jack Thompson or someone else who shares his views of gaming sees political/religious/fanatical marches occuring frequently in the game.
Hope your all happy with yourselves. Hope Ron Paul likes it to, because if this shit all happens, it will backlash on him. And he can thank all of you dedicated supporters.
Zorvan, you have verbalized my concerns perfectly. These idiots have opened a pandora's box through selfish, pandering attention whoring for a political candidate who doesn't even know they exist as individuals. They have tainted a leisure activity with their real life political beliefs because, much like Ron Paul himself, they do not know where the line between reality and fantasy is drawn. I just hope NAMBLA, the KKK, or any other fringe distasteful group picks this up as their recruitment vehicle of choice so Blizzard realizes the can of worms they opened by supporting this gross display of idiocy.
Considering he raised over 20 million dollars in the fourth quarter, I wouldn't say he could never get elected. Slim currently, but his support is growing faster than just about any candidate out there. His viewpoints are a lot more popular than communism. He's the only Republican that wants out of Iraq asap, and he wants to follow the constitution and protect civil liberties, which are sadly disappearing. Something like 70% of Americans want out of Iraq, he more than any other candidate will deliver on that message.
Sadly, with the way our economy is going, the only "safe" jobs will be government and low paying service orientated jobs. Ron Paul wants to lower taxes by withdrawing troops from overseas bases and eliminating some federal agencies. This places less tax burden on people so they can live more prosperously. He wants to create jobs by eliminating these parasitic free trade agreements that are destroying our manufacturing base. Without manufacturing, we can't trade with other countries and we have to buy all our products from china for instance. Not much reason to hold on to a currency when you can't buy anything with it. Even oil, which has been sold exclusively in the past in US Dollars, is now being sold in other currencies. Further eliminating the need to keep dollars. The trade deficit and the nation debt further hurt our economy. He understands this, unlike most politicians, and wants to create and protect jobs. So many middle class jobs are being outsourced to 3rd world countries and are being replaced with low paying service jobs, why should federal government jobs be safe when they aren't even protecting the jobs of average American citizens?
Even the poor get taxed, and often at much higher percentages than the rich. Warren Buffet recently testified to Congress that taxes on the rich should be increased; he gets taxed percent-wise lower than his maids. Eliminating the federal income tax (by eliminating costly, controlling, and inefficient federal bureaucracies) certainly has it's appeal to lower, and upper class citizens. And support for Ron Paul isn't solely from the fiscal conservatives. /rant end lol
Something important that all Americans in particular should retain.
" If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. "
~Naom Chomsky
Another award winning comment from Yukkione. The ironic thing about this comment is, you're basically saying that the Ron Paul march in World of Warcraft is either the current government's fault, everyone's fault but Ron Paul's, or my fault - yet the blame for this march can be placed solely on Ron Paul and Ron Paul's supporters. Either that or you are so lacking in sense as to propose the threat of "We're going to harass you until you vote for who we want you to vote for!!"
Honestly, I'm ashamed that uninformed and uneducated people can be registered to vote in America, because it's obvious that people who would make statements like these know little or nothing about either democracy or liberty, and would rather choose to delude themselves into thinking that anyone that opposes their slanted views are "sheep", rather than maybe question the "company line" that they seem to follow.
The sad, honest fact is, most people that mouth on like this know less about politics than the average politically aware voter. Most of these people have never participated in any real world protests or rallies, let alone lead them themselves, and I'm sure even fewer have helped campaign for or finance a politician, beyond maybe this year's president, yet they STILL assume that the people that oppose their views are somehow magically less politically active than they are. I imagine that they think that just because they grew up sitting in their couches and doing nothing up until 07 that everyone must have done the same.
Get off your high horse, put away your soap box, and go read a book. Maybe then you'll learn enough to be able to make arguments that are a little better than "Everyone who's against me is Sheeple!" Oh, and while you're at it, do us all a favor and think before you say things, because quite honestly, I'd rather not be subjected to any more silly statements such as "If you want politicians out of your games, then support ones that want government out of our lives. "
http://www.brianpowellmusic.com/californiataxes.html
You can also reference in dave ramseys book the total money makeover in regards to how much the rich get taxed.
Okay, let me break things down into simple terms for you - maybe then you'll be able to understand things :
The Superbowl is an event that people pay to enjoy. People spend money so that they can go out and enjoy the game.
World of Warcraft is a fantasy that people pay to enjoy. People spend money so that they can go out and enjoy the game.
If you were to have paying Ron Paul supporters start a Ron Paul rally in the stands at the Superbowl, it would litterally be the same thing as Ron Paul supporters starting a rally at Iron Forge in World of Warcraft. Really, the only difference between WoW and the Superbowl is the fact that the Superbowl doesn't have a free trial.
Now that I've got that out of the way, I'll address your statement of "Making a comparison to illegal activities and despot dictators doesnt help your cause either". To start with, I didn't make a comparison between the Ron Paul march and the things listed. I simply stated people like you would be against marches like these if the marches were in support of things that you were opposed to. Beyond that, not all of the things I listed were illegal, or involving tyrants - you chose to selectively nit pick what I was saying, and ignore the things that were said. I suspect that you did so because, as mentioned in the very post that you quoted, you really have nothing with which to debate the arguments that I've presented.
Last, as far as my diction goes - using words that involve more than the basic vernacular is a sign of intelligence and education. No where does the fact that I actually use my brain indicate that my argument is "weak", and, in fact, the fact that you chose to ignore my argument and focus only on the words within it proves exactly the opposite - it proves that you can't debate what I've said. I've presented you with an open and unopposed argument, and rather than put your money where your mouth is and prove my argument wrong, you instead chose to create completely asinine comments about "preachers" and "whining"
Grow up, read a book, and come back to me when you have something to say that's worth being said. Until you do that, you'll only be making yourself look bad.
Just an amusing aside. Ron Paul finished 5th amongst republican candidates in Iowa. That's less than Huckabee (who won), Romney, Thompson, and McCain. Should've farted in the wind, would've pissed off fewer people and would've had just as much influence on the outcome..
Don't bother. They'll just come in here and call us ignorant sheeple, since apparently only Ron Paul supporters know what the country needs. The rest of us are just uninformed and getting in their way.
Gotta say, this post not only made me smile, but it's so true. Couldn't have said it better myself, good job Zorvan.
They may be against the views of the march but they would have little say other than petitioning a GM to prevent it. If it was against the harassment policy (which some of your topics mentioned are), then they would have a case. If it wasn't, than the march would just have to be ignored by whomever didn't want to see it. If it went the way the Ron Paul march did, you could easily avoid it by going afk for a few minutes, stretch your legs, refill your glass of water, and maybe stare out the window to relax your eyes a bit.
This comment is just horrible. You start off with a paraphrase, but you quote as if that was actually stated somewhere. Not only is it an inaccurate rewrite of what was said, but it completely changes the meaning of what was said. From that initial mistake, the rest of the blather is even more pointless.
In World of Warcraft, if you're NOT on a ROLEPLAY server, then don't be surprised when the real world interjects itself into the game on a REGULAR basis.
Whew. As I read your responses I don't see any contradictory evidence, are we taking your side because you said it? You complain my articles are old, the theory of evolution came from a guy in 1836 who went to the galapagos islands, saw 14 different species of finch and postulated they all came from a single creature, a microbe. If he said bird, sure, but a microbe, thats a big jump. Also, Darwin had neither MRIs or understanding of DNA, so what he had to say should not be taken as gospel truth, especially in the light of the current fossil record. Also re quote:
"Kitts outlines several different hypotheses as to why the fossil record appears the way it does, among them Punctuated Equilibrium, but at no point does he abandon evolution as an explanation for what is seen.
- Jon (Augray) Barber"
Do you know what punctuated equilibrium is? It is the supposed phenomenon of 1 species SPONTANEOUSLY giving rise to another. I.e. a lizard mother having a bird baby. Once again a theory rooted in pseudoscience. Never observed. Defies genetics and yet in print as a plausible explanation. If a creationist used it to support Creation he would be laughed out of the room.
Regarding the existence of large clumpy matter in the cosmos and the distances involved, this has not been answered. If it has please show me. I'm willing to read it for sure. There is this new theory that whatever the initial matter was, it spun and undulated and the clumps supposedly came from this rotation and undulation, but as you can see a lot of things having to do with a piece of cosmic real estate quadrillions and quadrillions of light years across is basically gonna be comprised of a lot of theory especially since many things we think of as constants change over immense distances, dimensions and speeds. Its funny though how I refer to one point about how the initial matter the Big bang supposedly came from defies the law of conservation of matter (technically) and you respond with "The Big Bang Theory doesn't refer to where the matter came from". Thats part of the point, a theory based on something that another law in physics states shouldn't really just "be" there. Any answer to the numerous questions surrounding many theories in many subjects would end speculation, but the fact is often times new theories just create new questions.
Also the fact is politics play a HUGE role in science because money plays a HUGE role in science. Especially Federal funding. This fact makes the stuff you hear biased, for example the concept of global warming as a function of human activity is based on computer models funded by a U.N. project and has resulted in countless taxes and eco-friendly changeover legislation that equates to more money in govts hands and yet anoher means of controlling people. Unfortunately their contention that "scientists agree" is totally false and recently hundreds of scientists (meteorolgists included like the founder of the Weather channel) have come out saying we are not the cause of global warming and that its part of the natural rhythm of the planet's weather as illustrated by the Medieval Warming Period and the Little Ice Age. Whats my point? You're the one drinking the Kool-Aid if you believe everything you are told without looking for yourself mon ami.
Btw, march looked fun, one of the cutest, most inspiring WOW videos I've ever seen, and as I said was not the big deal people made it out to be, but the expression of free speech and the spirit of revolution was, as I said, very inspiring.
While I will be voting for Ron Paul, and I do agree supporters had every right to march, this doesn't fall under freedom of expression. I don't think you're specifically saying that, but you're kind of eluding to it by saying "..the expression of free speech..". While freedom of expression can be exercised on private property, the rules that govern the property are limiting factors. In this case, Blizzard's posted policies are the limiting factors. In the case of the participants of the march, they were not breaking any rules, and they had contacted a GM before the march. IMO, they had just as much right to do what they did as anyone else that logged on that night and didn't violate Blizzard's policies.
Well said.
This "march" is NOT an "expression of free speech" as some of you are calling it. "Free speech" does not apply to World of Warcraft, or any OTHER online game, for that matter, that is why there is an EULA and ToS stating what names you can use for your characters and what behavior can be considered harassment, etc.
If you want "free speech" we'll end up with Bible Thumpers trolling the AH for "converts" and such like. Living in a democracy and playing an online game, are two different things. Apart from the fact, that WoW is not a game that is played by only Americans. Geez. I swear that Americans have GOT to be ridiculously arrogant to think that they are the only "law of the land." The U.S. doesn't make the "laws" for Blizzard's games.....Blizzard does. This is why guilds that were made to be "gay friendly" were shut down....don't you all remember THAT big controversy?
Go gather your Ron Paul supporters on some online forum made for politicizing and stay the heck OUT of games that have EULA's that prohibit that sort of thing....for a REASON.
Please, please, please... read a few books on how to argue properly. This is really bad stuff you regurgitate from your creationist web buddies. Maybe check out more from talkorigins.org before you post quotes or misrepresent evolution.
- LC
One-thousand pink-haired gnomes for Ron Paul.
I think I'll resubscribe.
Also, pix plz.
(Recalls several hundred pink-haired gnomes for "Blackrock down" on the Argent Dawn server.)
Reading comprehension skill -1.
It's pretty obvious that there's no real quote in the above block of text, and as such nothing was being treated as a direct quote. However, there was an accurate paraphrase of an attitude that's been expressed multiple times in this thread, and an accurate response to that attitude. It wouldn't take a genius to glean this kind of information from my post - only a person with a very basic understanding of communication.
vote martuk
FYI - this isn't the first cause march in World of Warcraft. This isn't even the 10th. There have been dozens of these. Notably, I remember a march for gay rights, at least one political protest of some form, and a funeral.
So far WoW is still standing. I find your apocolyptic predictions absurd and amusing.