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EVE Online News - CCP and White Wolf Merge
Posted by Jon Wood on Nov 11, 2006 | 114 comments in our forums
CCP Games and White Wolf have announced their plans to merge companies. The creators of the MMORPG, EVE Online and the people responsible for such pen and paper games as Vampire: The Masquerade are coming together.
The new, combined company will be releasing new games in both online and offline form.
MMORPG.com will continue to follow this story as it develops.
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Combined company to deliver next-generation gaming products online and offline Reykjavik, Iceland and Atlanta, GA, USA - November 11, 2006 - CCP hf. and White Wolf Publishing, Inc. today announced that the companies have entered into a definitive agreement to merge. The creators of the single largest persistent online role-playing world and the world's second-largest developer of offline role-playing, strategy and collectable card games will create the industry's largest independent Virtual World developer. CCP is the publisher and developer of EVE Online, the world's largest virtual gaming universe. White Wolf is the creator of some of the world's most recognized role-playing titles including: World of Darkness (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage) and Exalted. The combined company will introduce new online and offline gaming products across the science-fiction, horror, and fantasy genres. The merged company will enable CCP to integrate White Wolf's leading expertise in offline gaming development to enhance and create physical products for its MMOG, EVE Online. Products to be introduced in 2007 will include strategy guides, enhanced collectable card games, role-playing systems, and novels all based on EVE Online. White Wolf will leverage CCP's industry-leading technologies to bring its offline role-playing titles online. Conceptualization and early development has begun to bring White Wolf's World of Darkness, one of the world's strongest gaming properties, into the online world. "White Wolf possesses the RPG industry's leading offline gaming talent and some of the most recognizable roleplaying properties in the world," said Hilmar Petursson, CCP's Chief Executive Officer. " Virtual worlds are a new form of entertainment, separate from traditional computer games. By combining forces, we will create a company unsurpassed in quality, innovation, and scope which will keep us at the forefront of this emerging trend." The combined company will continue to operate under their respective names. White Wolf will be operated as a wholly-owned subsidiary of CCP. Hilmar Petursson, Chief Executive Officer of CCP, will be CEO of the combined company. Mike Tinney, President of White Wolf, will continue as President of the independent subsidiary. Further, White Wolf will continue development and enhancement of their entire portfolio of gaming products. "CCP brings industry-leading technical expertise and online game development experience to us," said Mike Tinney, White Wolf's President. "Together, we will create the industry's most innovative games leveraging both online and offline systems." |
"White Wolf will leverage CCP's industry-leading technologies to bring its offline role-playing titles online. Conceptualization and early development has begun to bring White Wolf's World of Darkness, one of the world's strongest gaming properties, into the online world."
About damn time someone made an MMO from that. Good luck to them!
Now there's a surprise lol. No, I think it's a great move, but never in my wildest dreams did I imagine CCP and White Wolf merging. Looking forward to what this will bring.
This could work absolutely wonderfullly or incredibly badly, hopefully the latter!
Also knowning CCP and White Wolf, it should work out wonderfully, Yay to decent tie ups!
The Wholly own Sub of CCP sounds a little like a buy out too...WW with lots of debts and CCP with lots of cash :P
Yah its surprising to say the least. CCP just realesed their collectable card game so that must have gotten the attention of White Wolf.
WHAT!!???
Well... Ok.... After the initial shock has calmed down... And the stunned surprise is about to relax its grip... SO out of the blue... I feel real good about this. I have never been a paying subsciber of EVE since the game style do not fit my personality, but I have always been impressed by their originality and way of working. They have really built a game likeno other out there, from scratch, and even if the launch was less than succesful, they have continued with improvements and never given up, and in that way created a game with a huge buzz, tons of followers and an enourmus respect in the game development community. CCP has proven thier worth in more ways than one and I think hundreds of thousands of peole are real curious what they will do next.
Then White Wolf...that created one of the THE most succesful RPGs of modern times, straight from scratch as well, and created tons of material for those campaigns, in several different settings.
We all can guess what kind of MMO this will lead to. How big it will be noone can say, will it be only Vamps... or maybe ALL the different creatures of WoD? Will it be a town.. or a whole planet with all its cultural differences.. Noone can say anythign for sure.. But we can be sure of one thing.
This time... The game will REALLY be something noone has ever seen before. These are not the copycats. CCP and White Wolf will both aim to create something new and exciting that will blow the competition away. For them its not a sales pitch.. Its just the way they have always worked.
Now we can only hope.... ( a slim hope, but we have to hang on to it)... the big giants, EA and SOE both WILL be interested in this and they WILL be ready to throw tons of money to buy this concept and call it thier own, and mess it up as everythign else.... We can only hope CCP and White Wolf have the economy together to keep them at bay... I would hate to see such a brilliant future be swallowed up by the big dinosaurs that turn any genious concept idea into "Kiddie Game part 3.472, Extra Kiddie Edition"
Either a World of Darkness of MMO or an Exaulted MMO would rock my socks!
Excellent move from both companys, lets hope for some cracking titles.
CCP already has a brilliant art/creative department, but they lack a bit on emersion. If White Wolf can fill that void, they would be able to produce an amazing product.
Trinity was far, far better than any of the WoD games anyways, if you ask me. I know a lot of people sure won't like me saying that though.
I mean great move - But i would be less soprised if they announced that Pope of Vatican joined forces with CCP!?!?
LOL
Why would they want to go into bed with EA or SOE ?
They are making a bunch of money. They have complete control over their own company. Why on earth would it interest them to join forces with some company that takes all the control and half the income?
No. CCP is independent. The only true independent game maker. Them going to EA would be like Quinten Tarrantino making a 3 movie contract to do Disney kiddy flicks.
JonGretar: You wont believe the amount of money those two giants will wave in front of this merger now, after seeing this. This will have the same impact on the market as Warhammer Online did, maybe even more.... No, about the same... Believe me, the dinosaurs want that feather in their hat.
Mythic was the MMO company with one of the best reputations internationally today.... They gladly threw that reputation out the window, together with their creative freedom, to instead marry the company with one of the worst reputations in gaming history, just because the money was waved in thier faces. This will be no different.
Believe, if you want to have a new exciting game in the future from two of the best independents on the market... Now is the time to pray.
I for one don't really care for Eve or its design, thats just my personal preference. Although this makes me feel sad for White Wolf, as someone who formerly worked with them as a writer. They did make the best table top products in the gaming industry for quite a long time. Although, I'm definitely very concerned with CCP calling the shots... and as they are a wholy owned subsidiary, that means by law that they can tell White Wolf what to do and how to conduct operations. Unforatunately based on what I saw in Eve I'm one hundred percent unconvinced that they can pull off a World of Darkness game successfuly.
Actually if you take a look at the industry reports you'll see that both companies were hurting badly. I think it's MMOCharts.com, you'll see that CCP had a very small slice of the pie. While they were likely in the black, I doubt they were making a fortune either. Bandwidth and hardware isn't much, especially if they had leased hardware... however they still require manpower and other resources to maintain the company plus the product.
As to White Wolf, they've been hurting badly for a long time now, as are all table top gaming companies nowadays. See if you can get a copy of Comics & Games retailer, it's an industry trade magazine that details the goings on in the gaming industry. You'll see if you follow the yearly reports that the table top gaming industry has been losing money consistantly every year pretty much. For that matter if I remember my figures correctly I think they dropped 40 percent from 04 to 05, and distributors are starting to dissipate as the money stream narrows.
As a very old school WW RPGer (stop laughing at the back!) I was appalled at the way WW screwed up then nuked their old games, ran the Camarilla almost into the ground and then released shoddy replacements for their old big name system (World of Darkness) which have mostly been out-sold by their other game systems these days. I went from being an ardent WW fan to an embittered player/storyteller who'd had enough of being jacked around.
I first read this with much trepidation but it seems that CCP is going to be the one calling the shots and having seen a little something of how both companies are, I can see CCP being a great deal better at letting WW get on and do it's own thing than if the situation had been reversed and WW was wading in dictating to CCP what it should do.
I look forwards to the idea of an EVE RPG but if WW are going to be developing it, they'd better make sure that CCP keep the consistency. WW were once innovaters and ingenious writers but, well, not so much these days. I'm hesitant about the novels, though, as WW novel writers and their quality are - how shall we say - varied.
Oh and now maybe someone can convice WW to hire a proofreader or two
I'm hoping that this merger will mean WW gets a kick up the bum by CCP to sort itself out, and not that CCP is going to be yanked off course. I'll remain cautiously optimistic here.
This ought to be interesting.
Perhaps now we will see Noob: The Podded.
Actually this has been in the works for over a year. I first heard about it from a friend that works at WW during Dragoncon 04. WW really needs some positive cash flow and Licensing it's titles to crap companies like SOE, or EA isn't something they were willing to do. They know that CCP will never be sold off to a corperate Giant, and they know that CCP is all about making great Online games.
Don't look for a WoD or a VtM game anytime soon however. One thing that WW and CCP agree on is they absolutely DO NOT want to create a MMO that will turn into one massive Cyb0r session due to the Lunatic Fringe fan base that WW has managed to gather (They actually detest these people one trip to DC or any other WW gatherings leave little doubt about that and they have done everything possible to drive this contingent away.) So CCP and WW will be working out how to make the game they want that won't be hijacked by the nut jobs.
You forget that CCP does not need to be biggest. CCP is an independent developer that is strictly online. No boxes to print. No DVDs to distibute. No great advertisement campaign that cost millions of dollars to pay for. No distributer that takes 75% of the profit.
CCP finished paying for the development cost a long time ago. The only expenses now are servers, bandwidth and salaries. At least as far as I know.
I agree that a company like Blizzard would be in trouble if it had EVE's market share. But for an independent european game developer this market share is way more than enough.
Knowing a few of the CCP guys and having spend countless hours of Mage with the Art Director. And knowing that CCP is mostly run by former members of the Dev team that I beleive all are big WW fans. I really don't think you need to worry much. White Wolf is in good hands. I seriously doubt that thay are going to cancel Vampire or something. :)
Although you forget that in order for any company to grow that means positive cash infusion and on a regular basis. So they just bought White Wolf, but even White Wolf's profit margin is decreasing consistantly at a yearly basis. Great that they are fans of White Wolf, but being a fan won't help save a failing industry nor will it help two ailing companies suddenly be profitable or manageable fiscaly speaking for that matter. Honestly their distribution method is foolish. It would be fine if it was an addendum to an existing practice, but it's all they do. Secondarily, there are plenty of publishers/distributors out there, who do work on a global level without taking 75 percent off the top. Bottom line is that you need capital in order to push and expand your business outwards.
I do agree with the other poster that talked about the rewrites of the World of Darkness line. That was a big mistake with the fans on many many fronts. People have been complaining about this since Loraine Williams went nuts when she took the reigns of TSR over from Gygax and plopped out second edition AD&D. It's a never ending cycle, and better believe 4th edition D&D is already in the works and slated for release in 2011. Better believe that White Wolf will have another World of Darkness edition down the road too.
To me this is bad news, as a gamer. Hopefully they will prove me wrong.
Merging isn't something possible, 1 side always assimilate the other. CCP have the high-up, seems like they buy out WW...not merging.
They try to make it sound like it is 2 great companies...CCP achievements are...neglictables, in comparaison to WW achievements.
Kinda remind me when WotC did buy TSR, however WotC didn't ever say: "merging". In facts, WotC did just fine IMO, they focus on Eberron too much, but well, can't blame them. At least WotC did accomplish a significant success with Magic the Gathering. Not to mention, WotC was kinda assimilated by TSR, even if they buy it out, they allow it to be overtake their inhibitions. EvE isn't noteworthy, it is a niche inside of a niche...This sound like a catastrophic situation to me, oh well, farwell WW, it was nice knowing you guys, see ya in a the next life! CCP sounds like they have no idea what they are doing and that they are about to ruin everything.
I think I will go drink...a LOT!
As I've said in another post on the forums, I think this is amazing and it means, for me anyways, that we're one step closer to finally having a Vampire (WoD) MMO that fans can be proud of playing. I have no doubt that out of many companys, CCP is one of the few that would be able to pull it off well and give it, it's much needed attention to detail.
As a huge fan of V:TM and now Vampire:Requiem I'm certainly a little worried. My first thoughts were things like, will the next Vampire book get pushed back in favor of developing the Eve sets/books, will some of the long term writers and staff on WW loose their jobs... things along that nature.
I'm still a little leary about all those questions but most of all I'm just really excited, this was a great surprise and for the first time in a long time I'm actually really stoked about a business move inside the industry. Could be a wonderful thing and I'll be on the edge of my seat till I hear more.
Big request to MMORPG.com staff. please find out more about the quote:
Conceptualization and early development has begun to bring White Wolf's World of Darkness, one of the world's strongest gaming properties, into the online world."
When and if you can... pretty please, with cherrys on top
.
Yeah this seems more like they have more money than they know what to do with so they use it to buy a company or 2 :)
I'm am so excited. The world best tabletop game to be turned into an MMORPG?
That's absolutely fantastic. I can't wait.
You don't seem to have a clue about what you post about. You don't seem to have any idea of the massive costs needed to keep an MMO competitive these days.
You think game servers just run on their own? How about those game download servers they will need if they don't sell the game via shops on DVDs (which CCP do anyway). How about those constant content updates, I'm sure they don't write themselves.
You can't even argue against my point because modern MMO costs is one of the main reasons why we've seen Sigil jump in with SOE and Mythic with EA.
CCP are just showing us that there is more than one way to skin a cat.Bane has absolutely zero proof, and hes also a great kisser
I personally know folks from both CCP and White Wolf neither company is strapped for cash; in fact both companies have done quite well for themselves recently. This is a growth opportunity nothing more. WW wants to be a major player in online entertainment, CCP wants to expand its line to the offline sector, WW doesn’t want to touch one of the supposed Giants because they aren't going to be here in five years, and CCP doesn’t want Hasborg anywhere near their baby. It is as simple as that. What we the fans are going to get in return is an IP that will span across all mediums Games books and yes even films. As much was said ther are so many things that still haven't been revealed...it is an exciting time to be an EvE fan,
Trust me the Big Three are trembiling under their desk at this news.
Make love not war guys.
Lets focus on the topic and not on each other.
It better not be Vampires in Space or some lame thing like that
I played Eve, it's a good game but not for me. I really hope they capture the feeling of the World of Darkness game. The story of the game is great I just hope they stick to it and not butcher it just to be innovative
I don't have an issue with that Razor, but spreading outright BS like Bane is currently doing and has a long history of doing both in the games he plays and on forums is a bit irritating.
Right now EvE fans and WW fans are naturally concerned about the implications of this merger, the last thing they need is someone with a long history of social engineering to come along and say they are doing it because they are both broke. That is libelous and spins this into something negative, which it isn't.
Most logical people in the industry know that neither one of these companies are hurting, but Joe average fan doesn’t; garbage like this isn't productive nor should it be welcome. I'm certain that in the coming weeks MMORPG.com will have an opportunity to talk with both Hilmar and Mike about the implications of all of this but until that happens the last thing the community needs are Outhouse experts spreading disinformation.
I don't have an issue with that Razor, but spreading outright BS like Bane is currently doing and has a long history of doing both in the games he plays and on forums is a bit irritating.
Right now EvE fans and WW fans are naturally concerned about the implications of this merger, the last thing they need is someone with a long history of social engineering to come along and say they are doing it because they are both broke. That is libelous and spins this into something negative, which it isn't.
Most logical people in the industry know that neither one of these companies are hurting, but Joe average fan doesn’t; garbage like this isn't productive nor should it be welcome. I'm certain that in the coming weeks MMORPG.com will have an opportunity to talk with both Hilmar and Mike about the implications of all of this but until that happens the last thing the community needs are Outhouse experts spreading disinformation.
You know, the more I read what you write... the more you remind me of a certain group of troublemakers that I had the displeasure of running into. If you truly knew me of course, as you lay the claim to... you'lld know I only speak fact when I speak based off of knowledge. I also offer proof of my facts as I did in the past with source material, and as I did yet again in this very thread... in black and white no less. The "BS" you ever so quaintly refer to would be the lore of EQ obviously from the Codex of War, again... very same tone from same group that was well known to harass me and my fellow guildmates. My "BS" as you call it was also why I was hired to work on the EQ RPG by White Wolf/SOE. I left the project midway through working on the Game Masters Guide to pursue another project (currently unannounced) in the gaming industry which I'm currently involved in. You should really stop being libelous yourself before running around pointing fingers and making rampant off the hook accusations. I didn't appreciate it then, and I certainly do not appreciate it now, nor will I tolerate it.
I have no doubt that representives of one or both companies will put a spin on it. Anyone can see there's already been a spin via the "merger" that clearly isn't, for anyone that understands how corporate structures operate. Thats typical for the business world. How many people come out with an announcement and say they are doing terrible? The table top industry is hurting in a major way right now, more so then ever. Don't believe me? Go look up in Comics & Games Retailer for yourself. Compare the dwindling revenues over the last few years. They are dropping consistantly each year. Then go to a hobby and games shop, IF you can find one (as many have been shutting their doors) and ask about the distributors for table top games over the last few years and find out how many of them are still in business or more importantly closed their doors because of a lack thereof. While your at it, ask them how many hobby shops that dealt with table top games are still around as many are now gone. If you do this, I think you'll be surprised. What you're being told versus the factual implication of whats been ongoing is completely different.
I'm glad you think CCP is great and that you have friends there, but there are a great deal of people that do not. They may be good people, and hey thats great. I know alot of really nice and good hearted people in the gaming industry, but I don't share in their gaming philosophies. Am I included in that segment of people that doesn't care for Eve? Absolutely, the game is more work to me, and games are supposed to be about having fun... not working. If I have to "work" in a game, then it's no longer fun, and most people out there want to have fun. This is why Blizzard is trying to take WoW in a totally different direction away from the raiding. The devs even admitted at Blizzcon that they found out only 10 percent of their server population had ever raided, and they didn't understand why. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find out, if you stop, talk to people, listen to what they are saying, and shelf your ego. Sometimes it's not about what you want, it's about what they want. I don't believe CCP understands this just yet, and if they approach the entertainment industry with that same vein I sincerely doubt they will make much of an impact.
And while we are at it, what has CCP done really for the gaming industry thats revolutionary? Really, what? I'd love to know. Yes they have a pretty looking game, yes they have a very large playspace for their game, and hey... thats great to have. I love that myself. Capital Ship battles, while I've heard are fun take an insane amount of work I've also heard to get to. That for me was where I stopped so I never saw that part. Again, games should be fun out of the box... not fun eventually, and thats how I felt from playing. Their numbers I know started at only 1k subscriber base and it took them roughly 2 years just to hit 85k in numbers. Thats never a good sign with an MMO when you consider the averages of people online, and the segment of those internet users are gamers. So again I ask, what have they done thats really revolutionary? I don't see it, obviously many other people feel similiar because if they felt otherwise, they and myself would all be playing Eve. I for one absolutely love Sci-Fi. I wanted to like Eve, but unless it radically changes... I won't. So that puts us back to square one again.
I'm a skeptic with all things in the gaming industry, because everyone says that they have "the best thing coming" soon, and when it comes out, it's nothing but the "same old same old". Goes back to what I said earlier about everything in the gaming industry being "ego driven". Everyone has an opinion and nine times out of ten it's "their baby", or they get a little taste of success or the limelight and suddenly they can do no wrong, and no one elses opinion counts. if they should somehow happen to fix Eve, I say great. Again, I'd love to play a good Sci Fi game. If they make something fantastic as far as an Eve franchise goes, again great! I love good movies and other items in that vein. However, going by what I've seen... I maintain my stance and my opinion.
Best Regards,
George Doutrich
EQ RPG Author
AKA...
Best of luck to the new company. Both White Wolf and CCP have brought great gaming products to the market in the past, raising the standards, and I have good faith the new company can also do so.
That, plus I can't wait to see what an White Wolf MMO would look like ! I think that with White Wolf on-board, chances are good they won't base a new MMO solely on the reputation of the IP, but also will want to make sure its a quality "AAA" MMO.
So what about taking all this to email ?
Thanks, sincerely,
OWNED!
Eve is a complex sandbox game, but it doesn't have to be "work". If you find it is like "work" then that means that the game's culture is playing you, and you are not incharge of your playstyle. According to official Eve statements at FanFest, there are around 150k active subscriptions to Eve (and plenty more lapsed accounts to haul back one day).
I think the way I understood the merger was that a new Shell company was being created to handle both CCP and WW, but I wasn't paying too much attention at that particular moment. Certainly WW has a smaller staff base that CCP, but WW will still wherever it is they are currently based and CCP base their main operations out of Iceland as they do currently.
Id ever heard of White Wolf (though I had seen their work without attributing it to them). The WW rep on the panel said that they were unwilling to hand over their IP to another company for development as an MMO. They wanted to retain some control over it. By merging with CCP, one of many companies they claimed to have had talks with, they will retain the level of control over what happens with their IP, whilst leaving the innovative technical stuff required to make a proper transition, over to guys with a successful and proven track record.
It was an interesting presentation and announcement, the anncouncement that Titans weren't supposed to be cost-effective because they were just "big d1cks" probably got the best laugh, but the tone seemed relatively jovial throughout.
Perhaps the weight of the beer on the table infron of the panel participants was a sign of what the relationship between the two merging companies will be like going forward.
Hello everyone, saw the news post on the main site and felt I'd show my support and add to the positive energy here. Can't wait to see what title/s come out of their offices.
Eve right now has gwon arround 50k each year. You quoted mmogchart.com but that page shows EVE having similar market share as it's main competitor SW:Galaxies and far above Earth and Beyond that used to be a competitor. So basically that place you quoted for showing in how much deep shit CCP is in shows them as one of the few that have steady and good growth. So what they don't have WoW numbers. It's a big understanding that you have to be the biggest to make money.
Eve usually has between 20k to 30k users online each. All in a single world (WoW caps at 3000 per world). So that should qualify for your request for someting EVE has done revelutionary. Another revolution they made is the most complex and amazing financial system in the game that is only topped by the real thing. Talk what you will about the gameplay. But from a pure question of the technology behind the scenes EVE tops everything.
Just a slight correction. There are 700 people who touch the EVE project in one form or another. The CCP employee count itself went from 55 to 200 if I remember correctly from the slides. Still, Pretty impressive.
I stand corrected. :) And yes that is impressive. It is also the company designers want to be right now, my friend that was lucky enough to attend fanfest told me that Reynir Hardarson was telling folks that the last developer position that was opened a CCP received over two hundred applicants, most of whom are veterans in the industry and working on projects right now. This is why its laughable when someone shows up and paints CCP as a company that’s holding on by the skin of its teeth.
On the WW side Stewart, Steve and Mike has had online companies knocking it's door down and offering them Truck Loads of cash to develop a MMO for the past Four years. If they were desperate as Bane falsely paints them they would have taken SOE's or Microsoft’s offer
World of Darkness? Never heard of it.
As to MMO Charts, I take anything that comes out of Pardo's mouth with a grain of salt. There's an old saying, consider the source. This is the same guy that also said that certain uber guild devs were "nice people" even though they spit in peoples faces and tear them up on the internet "just because". I didn't paint anything falsely, I simply looked at things as they were based off of facts, not on another persons say so. I prefer hard evidence. Say so is like a group of people sitting in a circle telling a story from one person to the next and by the time it gets to the last person it's a completely different story.
You yourself even admitted that they were in need of capital in your first post in this very thread. Nothing false about it. Nothing bad about it either. I enjoyed White Wolf and still do. Fact is, most gaming companies in the table top industry are hurting right now. It's across the board. Hogshead, West End Games, and even Fasa are gone now just to name a few, and Paladium is barely on it's feet last I heard from distributors.
As to Eve the comments about Eve and being revolutionary, I don't see it. It's still running on cluster server technology, and thats nothing new at all. I really don't see anything unique about 30k people being online either or revolutionary. Maybe I'm misterpretting you here, but from what you're telling me, I just don't see how that really impacts the gaming industry, or the technologies relevant thereof. As to the financial systems in place, again... not really very revolutionary considering it's a fundamental design flaw to any game that bills itself a role playing game. In short role playing games are supposed to be about story, something you can interact with and be apart of, and thats something that is sorely missing from MMO games these days across the board.
EVE doesn't bill itself to be an RPG, it just name it self a MMOG.
From their FAQ: 1.1 What is EVE Online?
EVE is a massive multiplayer online game (MMOG) set in a science-fiction based, persistent world. Players take the role of spaceship pilots seeking fame, fortune, and adventure in a huge, complex, exciting, and sometimes hostile galaxy.
That said there are more roleplay going on in EVE than most other so called mmoRPGs and it's one of the few mmog on the market where your roleplay actually can have permanent effect on the gaming world and its story.
EVE's server cluster is large enough to be on the top 500 supercomputers in the world. And it's the only game cluster to be there. It also has the largest number of simultaneously users in a persistent world. They have done something that none has done or even come close to doing before. What is not revolutionary with that?
I'm not going to apologize for looking at things with logic and reason. I really can't help it if you're unable or unwilling to do the same. Plenty of people have changed my mind and opinions about various things over the years, but they didn't get me to change my opinion by taking cheap shots and making personal attacks at me. They did it through rational and logical thought processes.
It's the lack of logic that bugs me. You pointed to some place to prove your point that CCP is hurting. That place actually showed that CCP is growing. You ignore the fact that EVE's customer base has almost doubled in a short time. You ignore the fact that CCP has trippled in staff and you ignore the fact that they had spare money to but White Wolf. You ignore the fact that CCP built new offices for 200 people. Those are not actions of a company that is hurting financially.
The fact simply is that CCP's financial situation is booming. It's just simply a fact. You just lack the logic and reason to point at to support what you are saying. Please point me out to ANY place that tells me otherwise.
Thats all heresay for the most part, as you yourself and martin have all said "you have friends", you've given no credibility to your statements outside of "it's your friends" or "friends of friends". Is Eve growing? Sure if you consider 300k on a global scale, and thats only when they expand into other countries. Also keep in mind thats a global scale, and thats not really saying alot in retrospect. That number will rise as they break into other countries, but then they have to maintain that, while keeping equitable profit margins, and thats something altogether different. Go back and consider the numbers of people online globaly, then consider the amount of those people who are gamers out of that segment. Most people don't want a hard core game like Eve, its a niche market. Is there a market for it? Sure there is, as long as people are willing to pay for it there is. Most people in business go where they know the money is, thats just smart business.
If that snippet doesn't mean anything then please disprove me (we are not the only ones that should be forced to prove our statements, so for you have not proven any of yours) and find one place on the eve-o site where they say they are an rpg. Not that it really matters what they are.
"just no ones done it" That's the thing isn't it. CCP has done something none else have done. They have changed how an mmog is run from several smaller copies of the world to one large. That's the definition of the word "revolutionary", "constituting or bringing about a major or fundamental change" quoted from webster.
As for how the roleplaying is done I am not talking about chat rooms I am talking about your actions changing the world. One easy example would be Amarr succession, when a new Amarr emperor (Amarr is the largest of the 4 major empires in eve) needs to be appointed the candidates choose one or more champion to fight for him in ship to ship combat. The winner also get the throne. In the game amarrian players where allowed to participate in a tournament that could earn them the prestige to be chosen as a champion and then finally fight to determine who of the 5 candidates would become the next emperor.
There are lots of similar examples but what is more important are the areas outside the major empires influence (in eve called 0.0 due to this being the security status of these systems, no security at all). Here the players make their own empires and write their own stories and their actions influence the day to day life of a large part of the eve player population.
The Great Northern War comes to mind where due to both events in chat rooms and actions ingame resulted in a huge war covering the whole norther part of 0.0 space. This war lasted several months and had an effect on ALL players of eve. One rare but important mineral used in ship building where only available in the north but due to this war almost none where mined and shipped back to empire which meant the prices went sky high.
You are seriously misunderstanding how this works because it is YOU who were making statments and it is YOU who need to show credebility to it. YOU were saying that CCP was in financial trouble without pointing to ANY sources. That is why WE think that YOU are just making statments more out YOUR emotions rather than looking at ANY facts.
I have made my claim. I have not pointed to any of my friends in CCP as sources or anything like that. My only point was that you were just makin shit up without having anything to prove it with. My statements on growing number of players, employees and new offices and a merger with white wolf are pure and simple facts. Here is a link to Hilmar the CEO of CCP stating all those facts. Yesterday.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1800.avi
Your turn. Bring some facts to the table. I asked you before to bring them and you just simply decided to ignore that request.
So what the CCP staff themselves say in speeches at the fanfest is hearsay now? In that case what constitutes are proof?
Eve have only once made any specific expansion into another country and that was china just a few months ago. But none of the numbers stated here about eves growth include the china numbers so it's a moot subject. EVE grow without expanding into other countries.
So CCP comming in with a 2.6m $ budget and around 5 people 6 years ago to now having 145 employees and making 2m $ per month is not smart business? Yes it is a niche market but a niche market they have conquered totally. If that's not a success story what is? (and the number is quote here are taken from slides the CCP CEO showed during his speech at the fanfest this weekend so they are not hearsay).
Thats all heresay for the most part, as you yourself and martin have all said "you have friends", you've given no credibility to your statements outside of "it's your friends" or "friends of friends". Is Eve growing? Sure if you consider 300k on a global scale, and thats only when they expand into other countries. Also keep in mind thats a global scale, and thats not really saying alot in retrospect. That number will rise as they break into other countries, but then they have to maintain that, while keeping equitable profit margins, and thats something altogether different. Go back and consider the numbers of people online globaly, then consider the amount of those people who are gamers out of that segment. Most people don't want a hard core game like Eve, its a niche market. Is there a market for it? Sure there is, as long as people are willing to pay for it there is. Most people in business go where they know the money is, thats just smart business.
Like I told your friend martin, feel free to go look at the MMO Charts site. You'll see they have a whole 1 percent of the market share. That's not much in the way of growth really. As I also stated many times over while citing examples that are easy enough to check up on, the table top gaming industry is in hard hard times. Many analysts don't think the industry is going to survive at the rate its going, and that the only people left in the end will be people like White Wolf who are now acquired, and Hasbro/WoTC. As to how it works, I know exactly how it works. Are you aware of the logistics, the costs of running a business, buildings, permits, licences, staff requirements, properties, etc. that all add up to operating expenses? Add into that the capacity of the fact that they have to make a profit after covering costs of doing business. I'm glad you take the words of Hilmar verbatim, but thats hardly a fact. Thats a statement, nothing more, nothing less. Seeing is believing. I know what I see with my own eyes and I'm quite clear and capable of making decisions based off of what I see. You know, just not long ago Smedley said how SWG was going to dethrone WoW. Still waiting on that one. Again, seeing is believing. I'm not entirely discounting Hilmar's statements, but I don't believe it either.
http://kb.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=94
As per your request Mcreag about Eve and it's "RPG" status. In their own writing no less. Thats definitely interesting reading more about the story of Eve and the events. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like what your telling me is that there is alot of PvP/RP oriented events, which me being a big PvP'er that sounds like it would be alot of fun. I'm curious though, as I never saw it while I played, do they have actual GM events where GM's get involved and push story into the game and players can interact with?
I think I believe you more than the others, but at this point, the only real numbers we have are from CCP, and I don't think they have any reason to not spin it in a way that sheds them in the best light. They really never had to let anyone know about their real financial shape ever since they separated from their publisher. The only one that knows is the tax man, and they won't talk.
That all changes when they have to start working with a distribution network again to get White Wolf into retail stores. Someone, somewhere is going to know the real truth when you start dealing with buyers, and distributors.
Frankly, the sub numbers, employees, new office, etc. doesn't tell me much about the financial shape. They can be increasing in all of those areas, and still go broke.
Exactly.
But as I said typical Bane pulls crap out of his ear that he can't back up and accuses everyone else of lying.
Bane don’t you think it’s time to stop looking like an ass and move on? No? Okay continue on your little Tirade. CCP is broke WW is hurting EvE isn’t growing…
Oh and we are all still waiitng on your proof that CCP and WW are hurting for cash, till then Still a Troll, Still a Liar.
What facts? You have not shown any facts showing that CCP is hurting. NOTHING!!! Only thing you have showed is a link to some place showing 1% market share. Thats it.... We have asked multiple times for more facts to support your dubious theories but you don't have anything. This is not some opinon thing. Either CCP is hurting or it isn't. The FACTS show that it is small but doing ok.
You act like you have so much insight into what is needed for a company to be run. But I don't think you have any slightest insight into what is needed to run a company in Iceland or the rest of Europe. You have been showed quotes from the CEO of CCP but it seems like you actually think that he is lying about the employee count and the number of subscribers. You are actually saying he's just making this shit up. You are actually acusing him of a criminal offence.
No. You have NO facts. You just make shit up and you just ignore facts. You keep saying that you are entitled to your opinion. Well it's not an opinion. What you are saying here are false accusations. No more. No less.
1) Oveur is making shit up.
2) It is not a crime, because we are not investors.
3) Subscriptions aren't subscribers, but the number of subscriptions are called subscribers because it looks like the game is more popular than it really may be.
What facts? You have offered no proof that CCP or WW are strapped for cash several people have showed you that the companies are growing. Are you truly that dense? You have no place in the gaming industry you are a wanna be designer that has a guild that is loathed for it’s questionable practices.
Seriousley guy seek help for your reality issues.
Eve is a pvp game from the buttom up. There is a fun video from the 2005 fanfest where one of the devs says that when eve was designed it did not include npc. They where added in early beta because of player request and to distinguish different security status a bit.
Yes there are GM (or event staff, in eve GMs only handle petitions) run events as well. Events where the player can actually choose sides and effect how the event will end. One example of would be the Sisters of EVE (sort of unisef or red cross of eve) relief convoy where the convoy itself was flown by event staff but was both guarded and attacked by players. Did not take part of that event myself so I don't remember if it ever reached its destination (but I think it was Mercenary Coalition that guarded it which means it most likely made it there, those guys know what they are doing).
As for believing hellmars statement, it's not like he is saying they have around 150k players or other generalities like we are doing good which others like smedly does. He is listing the exact numbers of paying customers (145.095), the exact number of active trial accounts (20.060), the exact number of accounts ever made trial and non trial (1.145.606) and the exact number of sold copies (373.904) (ie payed for accounts). And is also listing the exact number for last year which is about half of this year in all categories but employees which is 1/3.
The only thing he isn't listing exactly is the monthly revenue which is listed as >2 million USD.
And as said earlier the eve server show how many people are online at any time and using the figure for 20-25% of playerbase being online at primetime which seems to be industry avg if you do the math you will end up around these number. This while not proof makes the numbers more credible.
Also while SOE is famous for not communicating with it's customers and lie to them CCP is famous for the opposite. For example when the server crashes you know that within an hour of they knowing the reason the server admin will have made a post on the forum describing exactly why it happens (one of the last times it was a bug in the db code in a hotfix that made the db use up all the available item ids, when those ran out the server crashed). It's just part of the general openness that CCP show to their customer. There is a reason they where voted best company in the last MMORPG poll.
Well.. They still have to pay for this. It shows that they have money. It's not like you can walk into the bank and just get $10.000.000 or something. They havent gotten any additional funding from before the launch of EVE so we know that all those things are payed for from subscription money. Remember that after taxes it's around $1.000.000 a month into their pocket.
Actually what you pay in taxes is public information in Iceland. It's just a bit of a hazzle to find it since you have to show up at the tax office. But I do remember that CCP is actually the 4th largest export company in Iceland.
It seems that YOU are the one that is trying to hide something, not Bane.
The actions of CCP over the last year do not indicate to me any strength. Hardly any content was produced in the last year. They dropped everything for a cash grab in China. They are making out of the blue deals with Viviox, and Microsoft Vista. They can talk a lot about hardware, and code rebalancing, but how do we know...really know that they aren't making that all up?
For my part, I don't really care if they lie. Everybody lies in this business, especially in a way that makes them look better than they are. I'm just afraid that someday, you'll hear from Kieron, "Congrats! 50,000 online at one time," followed by a comment from Oveur saying, "EVE goes bankrupt."
Was not oveur it was hellmar the CEO and all games ever listing numbers make no difference between subscribers and subscriptions because it's not practically possible. WoW list 7m players but that is again 7m subscriptions. You are just bending words for your own agenda as usual.
Btw here is the slide shown at the fanfest this weekend (sorry about the quality, it's a screengrab from live streamed video):
So the answer from you and Bane is just that this is just all an elaborate lie.
Sounds a bit like you two are grasping at straws. Or conspiracy nuts. Either way despicable.
It seems that YOU are the one that is trying to hide something, not Bane.
And how have I done that? By pointing to the facts of CCps growth? Maybe it was showing through investor relations that WW has actually turned a profit? (all while Bane continues to spew BS ).
Guess bane found a 1st fist buddy to back him up seeing as how he was being made an ass of
The actions of CCP over the last year do not indicate to me any strength. Hardly any content was produced in the last year. They dropped everything for a cash grab in China. They are making out of the blue deals with Viviox, and Microsoft Vista. They can talk a lot about hardware, and code rebalancing, but how do we know...really know that they aren't making that all up?
For my part, I don't really care if they lie. Everybody lies in this business, especially in a way that makes them look better than they are. I'm just afraid that someday, you'll hear from Kieron, "Congrats! 50,000 online at one time," followed by a comment from Oveur saying, "EVE goes bankrupt."
A cash grab in China? You mean expanding their territory? LOL Guy put the bong down.
Making it all up, yes and JFK is really fighting Ninjas with Jimmy Hendrix...do you have any proof? No you don’t. The CCP haters are a hilarious bunch but you guy really take the cake.
/Passes out tin foil hats.
That you know best yourself. But is was a long time (several months) since I last saw a post from you concerning eve that was not an attempt to spread lies and conspiracy theories about it.
No ramsan you say, guess that means that the makers of the ramsan is also part of this global conspiracy.
http://www.superssd.com/success/ccpgames.htm
Once upon a time you used to post constructive criticism that was interesting to read even if I didn't agree with it. These days it's just drivel and conspiracy theories. What happen? Someone hijacked your account and it's not really Beatnik59 posting anymore?
EVE fanfest videos
now I'll copy the urls for the individual videos for those that want to cur and paste
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1800.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1815.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1830.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1845.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1900.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1915.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1930.avi
and for those torrent happy
http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/908312/EveFanFest2006
Whatever it is, the performance just isn't there, they did it on the cheap, or they just didn't do enough. I played on the old stuff, and the new stuff. Too many hangs, crashes, lag, and chugs these days, and you don't even need me to tell it.
The problem with the EVE lobby here that I found out really fast is that it is no use being polite in making negative comments. Any little thing anyone says about the game that doesn't claim it as the most perfect game makes you "the enemy" to them.
So that's why I don't really care about being fair to EVE anymore, in a way that the EVE fans would respect. Any criticism, no matter how small, makes you a target for their flame posse (probably even given freee GTCs for doing so). All they care about is getting another $20 non-refundable from as many people as they can before they shut down.
*shrug*
It's time to "EVE go to dead"...
:(
My goal is to maximize the fun that I have while playing a game. Since my fun is in large part affected by the number of whiny little children playing, who currently infest most MMOGs like a medieval plague, it would make sense to convince the largest number of those people to either not play or quit.
In short: I don't care if you're interested, and I don't care if you walk around telling all your friends that EVE sucks.
I was there they day they installed the ramsan as well and I noticed a serious increase in server responsiveness. But since that day the eve population has doubled and just installing more hardware doesn't solve all problems. There was an interesting speech on the 2005 fanfest about the node problem. There is a maximum number of nodes you can have before performance starts to drop because there are info that needs to be transmitted to all other nodes. Not all problems can be solved by pouring money on them.
Currently there are several changes on the test server as part of kali that will help with the performance problems. Some of these are not so popular with all players. Namely they are changes and limitations to gang hierarchy and warp to 0m which removes the needs for gate to gate bookmarks.
Do eve have performance problems in fleet battles? Yes. Will CCP be able to solve these problems? Maybe, time will tell. Will eve continue to grow despite these problems? Yes and this is why these conspiracy theories about bankruptcy are so ridiculous . Eve has had the same problems for a year now and during that year the population has doubled. So for most people it's not a problem (most people are not involved in fleet battles). During that year CCP has managed to lower the problems for none fleet battles and kept the fleet battle problem at the same level despite the player increase. That is proof that they are doing something, just that something is currently just enough to keep up with the population growth and not being able to be proactive.
Yes more" proof" WW and CCP are going bankrupt....
I spoke with Bill Slaviscek over the weekend, for those of you who don't know. Bill is the head of Role-playing research for Wizards of the coast, and the Director of Games research for Hasbro Inc. Bill also created the Alternity series for TSR/WoTC one of the most critically acclaimed RPG's since VtM . (WoTc stopped producing Alternity because Hasbros relationship with Lucasfilm.) He's going to be leaving that cushy position to work exclusively for CCP/WW developing their RPG., I serioulsey doubt he will be taking a pay cut.
I mentioned to him that some folks were concerned that the company was in finical trouble, after he stopped laughing he assured me that both companies had plenty of capitol to continue for the next several years on their own not to mention together. Besides being a fantastic Sc- Fi author Bill has a master of economics from Perdue university, I will take his word over the word of a wanna-be game designer/failed guild leader any day.
I think that pretty much takes care of the conspiracy theorist and haters. Bill made a really good observation in our conversation, some folks are scared of EvE CCP is that bootstrap company that has literally come out of nowhere and has won award after award and has steadily gained an audience by continually improving their product. Large MMO developers have lost some of thier top people to them, and they have rejected buy out offers from the likes of SOE, Microsoft and EA, but it goes beyond that I think.
What scares folks is that EvE is a true virtual society; this frontier is much more appealing for many than running up to a disneyesque vendor to get generic loot. (All while tollerating a hundred drooling tards spamming your channel about Chuck Norris) Eve has hard consequences and a take no prisoners attitude, this is why many Role-Players are "discovering" it. I always said if you take five WoW or EQ fans four of them will tell you ten things wrong with their games, if you take five EvE fans they will tell you ten things right with their game, that is the difference and that is why EvE is gaining in popularity and scaring the hell out of the competition and their fanbois.
Nobody is scared of EVE in this business. Its three years old. Every year it gets older, there will be less people for it to sell itself to who haven't already tried it and rejected it, or tried it and subscribed.
According to the above figures, only one out of every four new accounts bought the $20 box price.
According to the above figures, registered accounts (those who download the client and just rose by 177%, but the number of people who are subbed today only rose by 93%.
Less than ten percent of those new registered accounts actually translate into the number of subscriptions today, but of course, given churn, the numbers may be higher in actuality, but that also would imply that veteran players have dropped.
It seems from what I saw that a whole lot of people have tried EVE, but the problem is that not too many of those trials have turned to subs, and not too many of those new subs are subscribed today.
So I'm not really certain that I can trust someone who is taking checks from CCP/WW, talking to a fanboi/street team huckleberry like you martinj63. In fact, it is starting to look like you are obsessed with discrediting criticism, because there is something to hide.
The well is starting to look dry, expenses are too high, and progress has been stifled for the sake of placating a minority of subscribers with "beer and circus," aka EVE TV.
You see, CCP is scared, because they know that as soon as the numbers begin to fall (and it already looks like it may get that way in the next year or so), it is only a matter of time before financial insolvency. Its built on a ponzi model, and when people start to see a decline, they'll be worried that they'll never get that T2 HAC trained up to level 5, or get to fly the Titan, and they'll start to leave for games that aren't so stale.
Apparently someone at CCP ran over your dog or something and now you have some vendetta against them but whatever. Your arguments are weak and easily dismissed.
Man, you just see wath you want to see.
EvE have 3 years never had a drop in subscriptions it was allweys growing.
Now go to mmorpgchart.com and tell me how many games after 2 years didnt have a drop in subscripions.
I will tell you only 3 games EQ1(add a drop after 2 years but got up again), FFXI and lineage1.
Now explain me how a game with 3 years never droped in subscriptions and doble in subs on last year.
I can tell you they have the best grafics on mmo market, and they impruve them(take a look at EVE wen vista patch goes live),
They never stoped to impruve servers with new ardware. http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=392
they never gave up on their game(like mitik with DAoC, EA with E&B, Turbine with AC2, funcom with AO) and they add only 30k subs wen eve was relesed,
Costumers trust CCP, they talk to us,
All the changes they have made, just made the game beter.
They dont make games tring to copy susecefull brands like wow or eq, they did something no one belived.
Won favoutite game,best pvp,best company,best grafics on this site, won best mmorpg on http://www.mmhell.com/, best grafics on gamespy.You can see much more here http://www.eve-online.com/community/awards.asp and here http://www.eve-online.com/community/reviews.asp
They are the vanguard of mmo´s one server for all their population, no levels, space ships, EVE magazine(EON)... ...EVE TV...
See future expantions walk on stations, walk on planets...
EVE will not stop to grow, it will be uge.
Call me a fan boy, but if you dont see this you are blind
If you want to spin useless numbers so can I. 1.145.606 account created. First we remove at least 1/3 because they don't belong to new unique people. For example people who tested the game once on trial and made a new one to test again after some patch or actual players who made them to troll the forums, macro mine, laundry RMT money, gank noobs, scout gate camps, participate in rells pvp university or any of the other countless uses of a trial. Remember it's very easy to create a trial account in eve. I have 4-5 myself.
That leaves around 750k accounts. Now we look at the number of payed for accounts, 373.904. That means that close to 50% of all people who tested eve bought it. And 40% of all people who ever payed for eve is still playing it.
I don't have much to compare with (because CCP is the only company in the business that release these numbers) but I very much doubt many other mmorpgs can show numbers that good.
Now please show me the proof or even indication that you say you have the numbers will begin to fall. It's possible or even probable that player increase will slow down (remember that is has been increasing on a logarithmic scale so far) but until the actual subscribers starts so drop you have no case and all I have seen indicate that this won't happen for another 3 years at least.
Then we have the time from when it start to decline until it shuts down. And again looking at the rest of the mmorpgs out there it will take until it drops down to around 1/3 of its peek subscribers before it shuts down. That should take another 3 years which means we have at least 6 more years of eve ahead probably a lot more.
OMG!
"Conceptualization and early development has begun to bring White Wolf's World of Darkness, one of the world's strongest gaming properties, into the online world."
Finally! I knew it would happen eventually, I am so glad it is CCP that teamed up with White Wolf. Although I don't play EVE, I know that it is a high quality mmorpg. I wouldn't expect any less from White Wolf, and I absoluately can't wait for World of Darkness. I am such a huge fan of the table-top RPG. Over the years, I've been roleplaying in Vampire: The Masquerade and other White Wolf games.
That's World of DARKNESS, people, not Warcraft.
Peace will break out in the middle east before we can have a post about EVE without the haters trying to put the game down.
People complain about EVE "fanbois" but my goodnes the haters are so much worse.
It's a lesson that they really should teach other MMOG developers - fix your shitbox games so they dont suck, and people will play them.
And before you call me a CCP hater or Eve hater or what ever, I have never even played the game, I was only interested in the article when I saw that CCP was located in Iceland. ( I was stationed there from 2002-2006 ).
And so you dont think I made that up it was stated by:
Reynir Harðarson, creative director and co-founder of the computer game manufacturer CCP, makers of Eve Online.
So I will be happy to get a Eve P&P RPG or a Vampire / World of Darkness MMORPG :)
Nice Deal.
Correct they considered moving from iceland for 3 reasons, one was the exchange rate as you said above and one was the fact that iceland has a fairly crappy internet connection that is often down and also the fact that it's getting hard to find good developers locally or people that where prepared to move to iceland.
But is seems this move is not happening anymore. They where asked about this during the fanfest and the answer was that there where no such plans anymore, instead they are working around the problem. They keep working on the multi-homing solutions to reduce the connectivity problem.
They are opening offices in several places in the world (now Iceland, China, England and with the merger with WW one in the US) which means its much easier to recruit as they don't all have to move to iceland.
Not sure about the exchange problem, maybe they got some special tax deal from the icelandic government or something to make up for it. It also seems that the problem is coming and going as both the dollar and icelandic krona fluctuates. So it's not a permanent problem. It's also possible that these global offices allow them to have both some of the income and expenses in other currencies.
Like many others EVE online just doesn't fit for me, but I acknowledge that its a hell of a game - just not my cup of tea.
Now WW, they fit just fine - in fact I'm currently playing a mortal based World of Darkness campaign having playing the the past various vampires, a mummy, a fairy, a couple of werewolves... the list goes on.
This could be a great union and I demand they release their MMO by next weekend
Top marks to all, a great and unexpected union - I wish them both every success
The Good:
- If the WW worlds *have* to be turned into online worlds, I'm glad a decent corporation like CCP will do it, instead of some overly commercial lumbering giant like SOE.
- WW will definitely succeed in improving the EVE fiction and will probably succeed in translating EVE into the one kind of tabletop roleplaying game that wouldn't break the atmosphere: a storytelling system like Vampire or Werewolf. The last thing EVE would need is a translation to d20 or something similarly silly (I love D&D btw, just happen to think it won't mix with EVE).
- This will probably improve the cardgame a lot, though I couldn't care less, as I'm not playing it. Still, nice for the fans of that.
The Bad:
- Any manhour spent on another computergame is a manhour not spent on EVE Online.
- I fear a translation of the WW worlds to online worlds will fail miserably and I'd rather see the two corporations come up with something different altogether. The reason I think it will fail is because of the storytelling aspect being central to WW RP games. Computer gaming currently lacks proper mechanics for proper storytelling and needs a major paradigm shift to correct that (see for example current commentaries on Orson Scott Card's upcoming Empire game and his remarks on storytelling in games as a writer, he makes some excellent points). I honestly doubt CCP and WW will be able to pull that off.
- All this focussing on merchandise instead of the core game gives me this bad feeling in the pit of my stomach, telling me that CCP is slowly drifting away from its focus on what really matters to its current customers: EVE Online, the MMO.
Don't get me wrong: I understand that more profit for CCP will mean more money to put back into the development of EVE Online, their first love. But new projects take time. And they always take more time than you think. And once you've invested all that time, you generally need to get a return on that investment and that tends to hurt project you have running already, since those are returning revenue anyway. See where that is going? I just don't think CCP is immune to Hofstadter's Law, same as any IT corporation.
At any rate, it doesn't matter what I think or any of you think. CCP and WW do as they please and I for one would like to wish them the best of luck with this new move.
Greetings,
Grismar.
THAT was a surprise!
But well, CCP has amassed what? 6 years? of revenues from a game that has always been growing and never had any additional expenses beside EVE's ones. They MUST do something with all those extra millions and now we know what they were doing! merging with WW!
And the fact White Wolf is a subsidiary of CCP and not viceversa is even more surprising, possible that the second largest RPG company in the world was so bad off?
AS for the projects, first, i would not put off EVE as a d20 product just yet.
White Wolf has a whole series of d20 supplements, INCLUDING Everquest2 and WoW roleplaying game. EVE would just go adding to the mmorpgs they have transferred to pen and paper. That being said, I much prefer their World of Darkness system than D20, so i hope for something like that.... or something entirely different.
As for WoD, i understand the concerns, but there is one thing for sure: a WoD MMorpg NEEDS to be different from the mold and if there is one thing CCP excel is making things original. So, they have, in my opinion, a good chance to succeed.
As for EVE lacking support, i doubt. that is their money-making thing. Cutting support to their only source of income for some future one that might or might not be true does not seems a smart move to me. It seems they have some financial strength up there in Iceland, so it will be no problem enchancing the group.... hoping they train the newcomers well.... but then other companies (ie Blizzard) already handle personnel turnover pretty well withouth affecting the quality or style of their products, so it can be done.
Thats all heresay for the most part, as you yourself and martin have all said "you have friends", you've given no credibility to your statements outside of "it's your friends" or "friends of friends".
Bane, here is it as stated by the CEO and presented in black and white on a huge screen in front of hundreds of fans: http://evevault.ign.com/View.php?view=Movies.Detail&id=16
I'm sure you'll probably say that the numbers are fudged or that the CEO is lying, but I guess that response is to be expected. Lack of knowledge on your part does not constitute "heresay" on someone else's.
There is so much potential to this news. Gives me hope for the future.
At the same time i dread the fact that it may be a complete failar.
We are talking CCP here...
Failure is not an option!