#1. The game looks old; the game is old.

#2. There used to be an illusion that Blizzard cared 50% for it's customers and 50% for profit. Activision/Blizzard has turned this into 5% customer and 95% profit.

#3. MicroTransaction / Cash Shop puts a bad taste in most players mouths.

#4. There are so many newer MMOs out and plenty more to come.

#5. Expansions are so redundant and basic. Innovation has been lost.

They locked in free D3 and a yearly subscription? Wow, that's simply genius.

That means that all those WoW players who opt for doing that will be counted towards the total sub number for the next year regardless whether they will play WoW or not. Plus it makes it easier for people to jump back into WoW from time to time even if they're playing other MMO's or just singleplayer games. Smart move.

Originally posted by precious328

#1. The game looks old; the game is old.

#2. There used to be an illusion that Blizzard cared 50% for it's customers and 50% for profit. Activision/Blizzard has turned this into 5% customer and 95% profit.

#3. MicroTransaction / Cash Shop puts a bad taste in most players mouths.

#4. There are so many newer MMOs out and plenty more to come.

#5. Expansions are so redundant and basic. Innovation has been lost.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head . The loses Blizzard are likly to incure next year will be substantually more than 1.1 million . These arn't the seasonal loses some fans would like to have us believe . Theres a whole lot of new games coming out just as Blizzard are about to release a total mistake of an expansion . It will not go well for them .

Blizzard’s World of Warcraft has lost 1.7 mln subscriptions over the course of this year not 1.1 just saying

I also think that the craze of past-WoW was like a MMO baby boomer generation. Everyone jumped on the wagon, e.g., the nerd, the jock, the hottie, etc. This has come to an end. It's all about retention now - keeping the same players active. However, 7 or so years later = people are getting older.

We are sick of it. We yearn for depth and innovation. We try to find it in other games, yet they don't offer. It's the same old bs.

This type of thread is gonna be too common.  Every week we are gonna see a thread about how many people left that week.  I think we got it.  They are finally declining.

Game is 7 years old it would be just un natural if it didn't lose players after that many years. 

Originally posted by precious328

#1. The game looks old; the game is old.

If you like the style WoW is still one of the most visually appealing games out there, it could use character updates but it still has a very beautiful world. Yes the game is old.

#2. There used to be an illusion that Blizzard cared 50% for it's customers and 50% for profit. Activision/Blizzard has turned this into 5% customer and 95% profit.

It has to maintain 50/50 otherwise it wouldn't be where its at now. People are taken care of and blizzard devotes a large employee base to maintain a happy playerbase.

#3. MicroTransaction / Cash Shop puts a bad taste in most players mouths.

Its all vanity.. i don't see the issue here. Unless you're referring to the guardian cub which isn't very effecient at making gold.

#4. There are so many newer MMOs out and plenty more to come.

All of the new MMO's out now are trash, the ones to come aren't here.. who is to know what will happen.

#5. Expansions are so redundant and basic. Innovation has been lost.

BC was good, wrath was different but got old quick and cata is good for alt-o-holics and hardcore raiders(4.3)

So what i'm trying to say is i don't get the reason for your points and i find them flawed. The game is still great unless you've played it for 7 years.. {mod edit}

its a dated and boring game, i gave up on it about the time cata came out...it doesnt allow the core fans to enjoy it and its now so boring no new players are starting.

I say it should hang up its hat and move aside for SWTOR and other large titles due out!

1. WoW ages, no doubt about it. Sure MoP gonna have better textures and models, but 2012 games will have it even better and gap will be even bigger than atm.

2. Microtransaction - even though it is vanity except RMT pet, - it allows to ramp up revenue and profits - that's for sure. Many customers are starting to wonder - hey I have cash shop here, and many "free" games also have cash shop, so what I pay subscription for?

Introducing cash shop into WoW is defeating best subscription advantage = pay flat rate and have everything.  Not to mention that imho with MoP cash shop will expand alot, as it will be many things for 'pokemon fights' there. More pets, skins, etc

3. Cataclysm was failure. Redoing whole 1-60 lvl world was not bad idea, BUT inreasing xp rate to ridiculous amounts was devaluating this redoing of zones, as people are levelling so fast they don't see most of this new/redo content anyway.

4. Gamers are just getting tired of 'same old' .

5. There is common view that WoW is on slippery slope atm, and I think it has 'snow ball' effect. WoW lost ~ 2 million subs in preety short time.  Swtor, GW2, Tera and ArcheAge and all other titles that 2012 will be full of, will drain even more subscibers. 

There is just no doubt.

Sure WoW propably still will be biggest mmorpg, but imho 2012 will make it's lose another 2-3 millions of subs.

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

Its no wonder their are so eager to release the game in Brazil and three tiny Asian MMO markets.

Someone is trying to compensate for losses of  "susbcriber numbers" which to them are their biggest currently running PR campaign. They desperately need some new launch peaks inflating the sub numbers again for their next announcements so every fanboy can be like "oh look they didnt drop further dohho WOW is fine even if my sever is dead now!". No mather how shortlived these peaks are...

Originally posted by nyxium

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.

Lineage Eternal > Diablo 3

Just going to put that one out there, won't stop the Diablo fans buiying just becuase it has Diablo in the title.

Blizzard is a self perpetuating gaming culture, I think when the cracks start happening they will find it harder to maintain any kind of market dominance.

Its the dawn of wow.

We all were asking who the wow killer would be, and in the end there is not one but many. Wow is starting to bleed out, and when the new AAA mmos are out, every one of them will hit a big wound in wow, well lets see if it can raise again with the pandas. 

Originally posted by Durray

Lineage Eternal > Diablo 3

Just going to put that one out there, won't stop the Diablo fans buiying just becuase it has Diablo in the title.

Blizzard is a self perpetuating gaming culture, I think when the cracks start happening they will find it harder to maintain any kind of market dominance.

IT won't stop me from buying diablo3.. LE won't be released anywhere remotely close to D3.

Though thought this thread was about WoW...

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by nyxium

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.

How can Panda's in China eating cutey wootey bamboo chutes be in bad taste? The chinese will love it. Yiyiyiyiyiyiyiiiiiiii ah ssssssso.

I try to think back why i played this game so long back in the day. only reason i could find is it had people. tons of people to group with be in a guilds with. and thats it. it never was innovative in anyway. and the devleopers were always changing stuff to the point you got nerfed every patch. i think i spent more time frustrated by my class getting nerfed then actually trying to have fun again at some point.

It's like every month they had a new direction. and they would NEVER roll-back any change even if the forums were in riot mode.

All hate talk aside. they will slowly dwindle down but never really die. it will just be made more appealing to younger people and familys and before the last xpac comes it will go free to play. i know morhaim promised no free to play, but i think it will. heck those new pokemon pets could be sold in a cash store and i'm sure you will see more F2P past 20 before it goes fully.

I wish they would have cared about us older vets the ones that help them spread the word and make the game the hit it was. but we arent the demographic they're  looking for now.

I wish them luck.

They need to start with dumping Ghostcrawler.....

The man do alot of harm to classes who where once fun to play.

Cataclysm was bad, alot can agree on that one, MoP will be even worse...

So in a year where Blizzard is going to get hurt in numbers so they try to focus on Asia to let it look like they are not losing subs.

I have no intention to play with panda's and it will leave a bad taste for Euro and USA players, not all but alot at least.

Also if you wathced Blizzcon with the announcement of the new MoP you should have at least laughed realy hard.

Chriss Metzen is pumping up thw whole hall and live vieuwers with talk about a massive war that is comming.

Horde Are You Ready !!!

Alliance Are You Ready !!!

War is COMMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then a panda bear does a barrel roll...........i shit you not i was spitting out my coffe -_-

What en enormous anticlimax of a speech :P

Its like having ... and all of a sudden she turn her face to you but you see its a man rofl ^^

Such a bad way of selling MoP.

But to each his own i gues.

WoW have shot their own legs off in 2012 it will survive iam sure of that, but they will lose players who are the backbone of wow.

GW2 and SW and in a not so distand future Archage will bring wow to their knees.

It will feel mortal again and iam sure Ghostcrawler will not be leading wow after 2012 is over.

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by precious328

#1. The game looks old; the game is old.

If you like the style WoW is still one of the most visually appealing games out there, it could use character updates but it still has a very beautiful world. Yes the game is old.

#2. There used to be an illusion that Blizzard cared 50% for it's customers and 50% for profit. Activision/Blizzard has turned this into 5% customer and 95% profit.

It has to maintain 50/50 otherwise it wouldn't be where its at now. People are taken care of and blizzard devotes a large employee base to maintain a happy playerbase.

#3. MicroTransaction / Cash Shop puts a bad taste in most players mouths.

Its all vanity.. i don't see the issue here. Unless you're referring to the guardian cub which isn't very effecient at making gold.

#4. There are so many newer MMOs out and plenty more to come.

All of the new MMO's out now are trash, the ones to come aren't here.. who is to know what will happen.

#5. Expansions are so redundant and basic. Innovation has been lost.

BC was good, wrath was different but got old quick and cata is good for alt-o-holics and hardcore raiders(4.3)

So what i'm trying to say is i don't get the reason for your points and i find them flawed. The game is still great unless you've played it for 7 years.. obviously you're tired and older and hopefully found job by now.

 

You're absolutely right. The game is fantastic. It's so fantastic that 1.1 - 1.7 MILLION users quit in a single year. Do you not realize how big that number is?

Age of Conan claims to have around 600k subscribes. This is like having their ENTIRE game vanish... TWICE.

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by precious328

 

So what i'm trying to say is i don't get the reason for your points and i find them flawed. The game is still great unless you've played it for 7 years.. obviously you're tired and older and hopefully found job by now.

 

You're absolutely right. The game is fantastic. It's so fantastic that 1.1 - 1.7 MILLION users quit in a single year. Do you not realize how big that number is?

Age of Conan claims to have around 600k subscribes. This is like having their ENTIRE game vanish... TWICE.

Glad you agree with me now..

Though what do people expect, game has been out for 7 years with 3 new time consuming prospects on the horizon. Not to mention people will jump back into the game for 4.3 to fight death wing.

I mean its about time WoW starts to bleed.. it was bound to happen sooner or later but to say its because the game is crap is pure ignorance.

I'm not a pver but I'll tell you why one pvper left the game a while ago.I think it has just lost its magic. Back in Vanilla, people pvp'd because they wanted to. Now people pvp because they have to get gear. Grind this, grind that. It's boring. Did you guys notice that most people only do the required amount of arena games just to get the points per week? It's because they are not having fun doing it. They're only doing it because they want gear.... It's the community that has gone downhill. They only do things if they get something in return. They've forgotten how to have fun. It's a shame...being brainwashed into thinking grinding this and that is fun. They even go into a bg and stand there afk... Is that fun? Isn't it more fun to go to the dentist? ;)

Another thing is how the devs listen to the vocal whining minority on the forums that probably don't even play the game. Nerf this, nerf that. This [insert class] killed me and it's not fair, nerf them. [Insert class] is so op, nerf them. I lost a duel so therefore his class is op. That guy in my guild is a [insert class] and he always does more damage/healing than me, nerf him. Instead of nerfing, buff the other classes maybe?

Anyway, it's not like any dev will read this rant and think, "Ohhh maybe we should do online surveys and ask people that are playing the game for input instead of listening to the crybaby trolls on the forums."

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

They locked in free D3 and a yearly subscription? Wow, that's simply genius.

...and still WoW is loosing subs... I think the loss of subscribers would have been bigger if this free D3 wasn't aded to a 1 year WoW subscription...

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by precious328

#1. The game looks old; the game is old.

If you like the style WoW is still one of the most visually appealing games out there, it could use character updates but it still has a very beautiful world. Yes the game is old.

#2. There used to be an illusion that Blizzard cared 50% for it's customers and 50% for profit. Activision/Blizzard has turned this into 5% customer and 95% profit.

It has to maintain 50/50 otherwise it wouldn't be where its at now. People are taken care of and blizzard devotes a large employee base to maintain a happy playerbase.

#3. MicroTransaction / Cash Shop puts a bad taste in most players mouths.

Its all vanity.. i don't see the issue here. Unless you're referring to the guardian cub which isn't very effecient at making gold.

#4. There are so many newer MMOs out and plenty more to come.

All of the new MMO's out now are trash, the ones to come aren't here.. who is to know what will happen.

#5. Expansions are so redundant and basic. Innovation has been lost.

BC was good, wrath was different but got old quick and cata is good for alt-o-holics and hardcore raiders(4.3)

So what i'm trying to say is i don't get the reason for your points and i find them flawed. The game is still great unless you've played it for 7 years.. obviously you're tired and older and hopefully found job by now.

 

You're absolutely right. The game is fantastic. It's so fantastic that 1.1 - 1.7 MILLION users quit in a single year. Do you not realize how big that number is?

Age of Conan claims to have around 600k subscribes. This is like having their ENTIRE game vanish... TWICE.

 

You are forgetting all those who still play...something above 10million.

quite simple...

They did not innovate enough, i think the secret of MMO's longlevity is innovating while still giving the players the feeling that its still the same old game they are playing, making them feel at home in the world, keeping things challenging...

How many beta players are still around in WoW?

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

quite simple...

 

They did not innovate enough, i think the secret of MMO's longlevity is innovating while still giving the players the feeling that its still the same old game they are playing, making them feel at home in the world, keeping things challenging...

 

How many beta players are still around in WoW?

I was a beta player and stayed for six and a half years, BUT.....throughout that time I did a lot of eye rolling and grumbling as I watched them "edit out" things that were GOOD and add things that were, in my opinion, crippling.  Eventually I said, "C'est la vie," and moved on.

I agree with your assessment, by the way. Innovating while still making a game seem like "home" is a good foundation for lasting player commitment, in my opinion.  I know that's probably not an easy balance, but it's the developers' job not mine, so....I can't be bothered with figuring out the "hows" of it all.  Just a gut level feeling for me that that is what needs to happen.

Originally posted by popi07

Blizzard’s World of Warcraft has lost 1.7 mln subscriptions over the course of this year not 1.1 just saying

 

Where is the proof of this?

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by precious328

#1. The game looks old; the game is old.

If you like the style WoW is still one of the most visually appealing games out there, it could use character updates but it still has a very beautiful world. Yes the game is old.

#2. There used to be an illusion that Blizzard cared 50% for it's customers and 50% for profit. Activision/Blizzard has turned this into 5% customer and 95% profit.

It has to maintain 50/50 otherwise it wouldn't be where its at now. People are taken care of and blizzard devotes a large employee base to maintain a happy playerbase.

#3. MicroTransaction / Cash Shop puts a bad taste in most players mouths.

Its all vanity.. i don't see the issue here. Unless you're referring to the guardian cub which isn't very effecient at making gold.

#4. There are so many newer MMOs out and plenty more to come.

All of the new MMO's out now are trash, the ones to come aren't here.. who is to know what will happen.

#5. Expansions are so redundant and basic. Innovation has been lost.

BC was good, wrath was different but got old quick and cata is good for alt-o-holics and hardcore raiders(4.3)

So what i'm trying to say is i don't get the reason for your points and i find them flawed. The game is still great unless you've played it for 7 years.. obviously you're tired and older and hopefully found job by now.

 

You're absolutely right. The game is fantastic. It's so fantastic that 1.1 - 1.7 MILLION users quit in a single year. Do you not realize how big that number is?

Age of Conan claims to have around 600k subscribes. This is like having their ENTIRE game vanish... TWICE.

 

You can still make a case its the best game in the market though.  Its certainly better than anything thats come out since.

Although I agree with some of what youve said

1.  The game is indeed old.  Most people have played it for several years, and there comes a time when the wonder and allure just fade.  That is the number one reason, BY A HUGE MARGIN, that WoW is fading (which ties in to point 5)

As far as it looks old?  Yes, games can have some amazing looking graphics.  However WoW still has a winning art style and its flair really goes a long way.  Rift may look stunning, but its so damn boring at the same time (though ember isles looks like an improvement).  Art Style > all.  But then thats just me.  I still can stomach EQ1.

2.  I got the feeling a long time ago Blizzard just didnt care.  The development pace for WoW has always been pretty putrid. Popular requests like player housing or shared banking are met with 'that would be expensive to add, strain on our database, blah blah blah'.  Well hold on, the poster boy for greed (SoE) has the most in depth housing system on the market in two of their games, and is always expanding inventories and banks/shared banks.   So SoE implements these expensive features but Blizzard doesnt.

Oh maybe they are using that extra money for development?  *Compares amount of content added since launch EQ2 vs. WoW*  Nope.  EQ2 implements expansive features, so probably less revenue per sub x 150k, compared to more revenue per sub x 4 million NA/EN alone.

So where the heck is this money going to?  There are currently 7 raid mobs in the game that are worth doing.  7.  For all that money.  (Okay maybe 8 if you want cheap entry level raid pvp loot from the loot pinata in BH)

But ever since BC took so long to come out Ive always been wondering...where is the money going?

Point 3 for me goes back to point 2.  Okay, sparkle pony for 25 bucks a pop.  Where is the money going??  If this game wa spumping out content as often as Rift I wouldnt think twice about the MTs.  Its why I give SoE a pass on them, because both EQ games have less than 200k subs (maybe much less) but their development cycles, even with the recent slowdown, are still mostly acceptable.  

I can understand if the game needs RMT to keep up a fast paced devleopment cycle.  If Trion went out and added an in game shop with fluff and said 'We know we told you wed have no RMT but we want to keep up our level of development and we feel this extra income is necessary' I would applaud them for it (as opposed to being sneaky with the double collectors edition nonsense).  But there is zero evidence WoW needs these RMTs.  Its pure greed.

4.  Im not sure this is a factor, yet.  Yeah, some left WoW for Rift.  Thise people did not stay at Rift and most actually went back to WoW (at least from my server's experience).  The number decrease isnt because of new games.  Now next year may be different because SWTOR will make a big splash.  GW2 I predict will *not* make a big initial splash due to peoples misconceptions about the game (GW1 not an MMO, PvP sounding title, etc) and gradually grow over time into a juggernaut (if its good of course).  I predict the GW2 impact to be felt in 2013.  Tera?  not even a blip on most people's radar screen.  Archeage?  WoW isnt the sandbox crowd.  TSW?  If its good it will be late 2012/2013 before it builds momentum.

5.  Cata is the same thing as Wrath.  the 1-60 game is great fun now but too fast.  60-70 is bad and 70-80 is BRUTAL.  81-85 is boring the second time through.  The Cata dungeons are not as good as Wrath.  Currency grind is old.  Replacing gear every update is old.  What happened to the interesting raid design of Ulduar?  Hard modes launched as such an amazing concept and now its flick an artifical switch and BOOM harder mob.  

I do think it also has to do with the slow cycle.  We are just looking at the same zones too long.  This time around the set of zones sucked so its excruciating.  MoP actually looks like it might have interesting zones, but it might be too late for me by then, especially since they are keeping the same stupid currency grind system.

So I guess I agree with 4 of the 5 points, at least partially.

In other news... Rift has just announced they have 1.1 million new subscribers, all from china.

Players report a massive increase in gold spamming in local and regional chat.

More at 10, now Bob with the weather...

Bob: Well, it seems that it is raining noobs out here in Tommarow Land.  Locals report power outtages all over the place and the island has crashed 3x now with no fix in sight.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

quite simple...

 

They did not innovate enough, i think the secret of MMO's longlevity is innovating while still giving the players the feeling that its still the same old game they are playing, making them feel at home in the world, keeping things challenging...

 

How many beta players are still around in WoW?

I do have to agree with this, they haven't been all to innovative lately.. seems they may try some things with MoP but meh we'll see. It just sucks most innovations have been left to raids. Wintergrasp(IMO) was the last good thing they thought of that wasn't a raid boss or encounter.

Originally posted by precious328

 

You're absolutely right. The game is fantastic. It's so fantastic that 1.1 - 1.7 MILLION users quit in a single year. Do you not realize how big that number is?

Age of Conan claims to have around 600k subscribes. This is like having their ENTIRE game vanish... TWICE.

AoC does NOT have 600 k subscibers.  Funcom stated AoC that since June 600 k users registered in AoC.

This does not mean that those 600k subscribe to AoC, hell that does not even mean that 600 k are playing AoC atm.

I am into this 600k cause I have registered to AoC freemium, but I've stopped playing after few days.

So AoC subscriptions are propably FAR lower than 600k.

. Not to mention people will jump back into the game for 4.3 to fight death wing.

 

I dont think that many will.  I will bet money that even with no 'big bad' as the focus of MoP, the final raid of MoP will feature a more interesting villain.

Deathwing just isnt interesting.  He would be far better served as a penultimate boss to a more noteworthy villain.

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by precious328

 

You're absolutely right. The game is fantastic. It's so fantastic that 1.1 - 1.7 MILLION users quit in a single year. Do you not realize how big that number is?

Age of Conan claims to have around 600k subscribes. This is like having their ENTIRE game vanish... TWICE.

AoC does NOT have 600 k subscibers.  Funcom stated AoC that since June 600 k users registered in AoC.

This does not mean that those 600k subscribe to AoC, hell that does not even mean that 600 k are playing AoC atm.

 

I am into this 600k cause I have registered to AoC freemium, but I've stopped playing after few days.

 

So AoC subscriptions are propably FAR lower than 600k.

 

One fo the 600k here too.  Hated the melee combat system and left.  Someday I may try a caster, but meh better games out there for me (although AoC I dont think is a bad game, its a 'not for everyone game'...which is mroe of what the industry needs)

This is why I don't like published sub numbers.  It's a lose lose scenario.  You lose when you do well because every game has ebbs and flows.  The quality of the game or the future of the game is based on sub numbers.  

Personally, and I know this is true for more and more, I don't choose my MMO based on what the flavor of the month is.  I could do without the gloom and doom caused by people who change games more often than Lindsay Lohan misses court dates.

Originally posted by nyxium

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

 

 Yep and it would take about all of them playing to equal the revenue stream from Europe and NA subs. besides are people going to learn chinese to have someone to play with?

On numbers wise..for the amount of money blizzard has made over the last 7 years on this game they really aught to have invested it better. For an investor actibliz has made them money , but when roughly 1/2 of the bridge supports looks like it's about to fall down you tend to stop driving on the bridge. Bobby K is worried about that. And you will see an immediate increase in cash shop shit and "deals" etc to keep that profit margin coming in.

Nature abhors a vacuum. The sooner this game goes away the better it will be for the industry to fill the hole with something worthwhile.

All imo of course

Originally posted by MMOtoGO

This is why I don't like published sub numbers.  It's a lose lose scenario.  You lose when you do well because every game has ebbs and flows.  The quality of the game or the future of the game is based on sub numbers.  

Personally, and I know this is true for more and more, I don't choose my MMO based on what the flavor of the month is.  I could do without the gloom and doom caused by people who change games more often than Lindsay Lohan misses court dates.

Well I never did go with the flow. Most of the time I am playing games that most of people find either "boring", "outdated", "low population" ,etc  

But I don't see anything wrong with publishing sub numbers.  It does not affect my choices so why should I be against it?

Anyway Blizzard publish it propably because of investors not because they want to say "hey we dropped from 12 mil to 10 mil".

They know it is not good press.

lets hope they sink for good.

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by nyxium

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.

Originally posted by precious328

I also think that the craze of past-WoW was like a MMO baby boomer generation. Everyone jumped on the wagon, e.g., the nerd, the jock, the hottie, etc. This has come to an end. It's all about retention now - keeping the same players active. However, 7 or so years later = people are getting older.

We are sick of it. We yearn for depth and innovation. We try to find it in other games, yet they don't offer. It's the same old bs.

 

I also believe that the huge influx of players that came to WoW was due to so many having already played the RTS version of the game and who where looking to carry on that adventure, those games are now collecting dust on your shelves and have been replaced by the likes of Modern Warfare and Call of Duty, these are the games that have taken the shine off WoWs numbers.

WoW was hot property way back when it was head and shoulders above the competition, unfortunately it hasn't really pushed the genre forward, it's stayed true to it's "When it's done it's done" but following this mantra always means your competitors find themselves with more than enough development time on their hands to get their own shiny new products out to the ever hungry gaming masses.

WoW was good when it was fresh, it rested on it's laurels and now it's past it's sell by date, D3 looks ok but there are other games coming out that look even better, for instance the recently announced Lineage Eternal.

(Ex WoW player who has gone clean for nearly 2 yrs)

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by nyxium

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.

 

Bad taste? His comment was dead on. And if you think a Western audience would embrace this panda silliness more so than the East, then man, you are painfully out of touch with reality.

 

Yet it was the western audience that has been requesting Pandarens since they day the game launched.  This is the same thing as EQ2 adding beastlords...subscribers are getting their overwhelmingly most requested thing added to the game

Originally posted by Asamighost

lets hope they sink for good.

This is the mentality I will never understand. If we wake up tomorrow and there is no World of Warcraft will that somehow make all the third rate games released in the last 5 years better?  Will Warhammer, STO, AOC and Aion be awesome games then?  Or do you just hate WOW because its what all the kewel kids are doing?

Originally posted by MMOrUS

 D3 looks ok but there are other games coming out that look even better, for instance the recently announced Lineage Eternal.

 

 

Lineage eternal is being made by NCSoft.  Doesnt mean it wont be good, but the odds arent in its favor and is it even going to be a 2012 release?

I love all the theories here.  Why would someone quit wow? Maybe they slowly realized the same I did in the first year. The only reason to play beyond the leveling cap is to farm gear so you can farm better gear. That's all wow offers. That's all wow will ever offer. The world became a virtual chat room that you participated in between instances. PVP never meant anything because there was no risk asssociated with it. It was just another way to farm gear.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by nyxium

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.

 

Bad taste? His comment was dead on. And if you think a Western audience would embrace this panda silliness more so than the East, then man, you are painfully out of touch with reality.

Are you serious? In china the panda is pretty damn close to being a national treasure and here we have a game that takes that treasure and turns it into something else. Some in china may love it and others will dispise it for it desecrates their treasure. Pandas are part of their culture and are viewed quite differently there than they are here.

It was the west that LOVED the pandaren, it was begged for since BC and it was assumed to be one of the new races then because of its pressence in Warcraft3. Get a clue as you obviously have none.

I "stopped playing" in a way.  I still log on from time to time, but my days of spending 6+ hours in the game no longer occur.  I don't see anything wrong with the game, but as others have mentioned, those who started playing the game when it was first released back in 2004 (good job on 7 years strong btw Blizz!) have grown themselves, and interests have changed.  

What would be nice, for new players to the game, is if the WoW timeline was part of the game progression.  For example, a new player to the game (or new character on the account if so desired) can do all of the Vanilla content, and upon completion, move onto the BC content.  "We are doing that now" you may say.  

Then you do not understand.  I mean the original game, and all expansions that follow would actually be stepping stones in your character's development.  Not the way it is now, where current content is current for everyone.  That way, new people to the game can enjoy that way WoW was in years past.  But anyway, thats just my opinion.  I would enjoy making a new priest and going back and getting Benediction, as an example.  

Alot of time went into making all the content for WoW, and its a shame that only the current stuff is what matters.  Just to point out a few places to show my meaning, how many full-sized raids still do Black Temple, Naxx, or ICC, and at level?

And they will continue to lost people until:

1: they add content like solo or small group dungeons

2: random world events in which everyone can participate for rewards

3: AOE looting

4: something to do other then endless rep grinding dailies.

5: they actually release new content every 2 months instead of 1.5 years. This is 2011 surely they have the dev.test.play sequence down pat by now?!?!?

 

Originally posted by itgrowls

And they will continue to lost people until:

1: they add content like solo or small group dungeons

5man groups aren't that big..

2: random world events in which everyone can participate for rewards

There aren't many games who do this besides rift and it got old kinda fast

3: AOE looting

Again not many games have such a feature but ya it would be nice to have.

4: something to do other then endless rep grinding dailies.

Fishing, archeology, dungeons, bg's, arena, old content grinds, achievements, raiding, alts.. angry birds? darkmoon faire and transmo in 4.3 and 'pokemon' in MoP

5: they actually release new content every 2 months instead of 1.5 years. This is 2011 surely they have the dev.test.play sequence down pat by now?!?!?

They are one of the best at releasing quality and timely content. Some of their patches are expansion worthy content updates that other companies throw out.  The only other company to match content updates is trion.

5: oh and almost forgot, they need not wait a year and a half to release new content like expansions AHEM then maybe it would bring new life back to the game.

Just wanted to attempt to get that across huh..

WoW lost 1.1 million subscribers this year but still has over 10 million playing it's 7 year old dinosaur game...... Oh NOOOO! Blizzard better hurry and make it F2P!!!  ***sarcasm off***

Lets take a look at every MMO every released.. 7 years later most of these MMO's have become F2P or shut down due to very little interest... WoW loses 10% of its sub base and people are saying it's the beginning of the end?? Seriously? lol... Even with the new MMO's due out, I don't see WoW becoming f2p anytime soon, nor do I see any trouble with blizzard making crazy profits for 2012...

People have to understand it's 7 years old and with age it has gotten even more popular, not the other way around...

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by MMOrUS

 D3 looks ok but there are other games coming out that look even better, for instance the recently announced Lineage Eternal.

 

 

Lineage eternal is being made by NCSoft.  Doesnt mean it wont be good, but the odds arent in its favor and is it even going to be a 2012 release?

I take it you dislike NCSoft, well with that in mind lets change NCSoft for Trion (though I suspect that will get a thumbs down aswell) and Rise of Nations, this is another top down game, and infact an MMO that looks like it will be a sure fire hit when it goes live, it's also pushing the genre forward where aqs D3 is more of the same.

My point is this, Blizzard isn't really creating anything new, it's resting on it's laurels and relying on past customers sticking with them to buy products that could be better.

Titan may be their only chance of recapturing the customers who are leaving for other games, however lets hope they decide to ditch the long drawn out expansion program they have in place, it's one of the hings holding them back, too little content means bored players and bored players soon look elsewhere, I did.

Avoid the 12-month plan, plain and simple. I like actually OWNING a physical copy of the game, not sime digital license they can rip me off on the second they feel like it.

And thats besides the fact that my interest in Diablo 3 has been brought from 100 to 0% by the downright idiotic minds "leading" Blizzard, so no chance of me ever getting the game (just like I haven't grabbed Starcraft 2 still, since some people do possess some self-control).

Originally posted by Cursedsei

Avoid the 12-month plan, plain and simple. I like actually OWNING a physical copy of the game, not sime digital license they can rip me off on the second they feel like it.

 

And thats besides the fact that my interest in Diablo 3 has been brought from 100 to 0% by the downright idiotic minds "leading" Blizzard, so no chance of me ever getting the game (just like I haven't grabbed Starcraft 2 still, since some people do possess some self-control).

Whats wrong with SC2? What is this about self control? You buy what you like, you think people are mindless sheep and just buy games and put them on their shelves because infact they really hate them? lol.

Its ok though, i didn't buy modern war 3 because i have some self control.

I copied this becuase this proves from an actual WOW player that the MAIN game is not worth playing.

The best way to start would be to start the 7 day trial or let somebody Recruit you as a friend, which would be 3x more exp for both people, way to level up many classes extremely fast, and experience the end-game much sooner. Would you be interested in doing RAF?

He is saying the game is crap and that you should SPEED level as fast as possible to get to the "REAL" game which is "END GAME".

So if the Wow players themselves think the game offers nothing other than end game,does it really hold any weight to how many subs it has?

So i would be more concerned as to WHY it  ever had this many subs to begin with if so many that play it think the game was crap?NONE of the 11 million would have known about any end game without first playing the part they admit is crap,so why did all those 12 million keep playing Wow throguh the boring crap part?

No this is NOT a random opinion of one Wow player, i have heard this type of menatality for years now and in many forums and chat inside games.

I think the truth is that players are starting to realize they wasted a lot of their life on a game that really offers nothing you can't get for free.I truly beleive most fo Wow's sub base was people that are attracted to hype and follow their friends becuase they are playing.Now thta there is two new hyped games coming out,their friends and themselves are now attracted to the NEW hype.

So Wow is going to lose easily another 2-5 million by time SWTOR and GW2 releases.It will actually lose even more than that however MANY will keep Wow subs because they are afraid to let go of all that effort they put into Wow.

Originally posted by Wizardry

I copied this becuase this proves from an actual WOW player that the MAIN game is not worth playing.

The best way to start would be to start the 7 day trial or let somebody Recruit you as a friend, which would be 3x more exp for both people, way to level up many classes extremely fast, and experience the end-game much sooner. Would you be interested in doing RAF?

He is saying the game is crap and that you should SPEED level as fast as possible to get to the "REAL" game which is "END GAME".

So if the Wow players themselves think the game offers nothing other than end game,does it really hold any weight to how many subs it has?

So i would be more concerned as to WHY it  ever had this many subs to begin with if so many that play it think the game was crap?NONE of the 11 million would have known about any end game without first playing the part they admit is crap,so why did all those 12 million keep playing Wow throguh the boring crap part?

No this is NOT a random opinion of one Wow player, i have heard this type of menatality for years now and in many forums and chat inside games.

I think the truth is that players are starting to realize they wasted a lot of their life on a game that really offers nothing you can't get for free.I truly beleive most fo Wow's sub base was people that are attracted to hype and follow their friends becuase they are playing.Now thta there is two new hyped games coming out,their friends and themselves are now attracted to the NEW hype.

So Wow is going to lose easily another 2-5 million by time SWTOR and GW2 releases.It will actually lose even more than that however MANY will keep Wow subs because they are afraid to let go of all that effort they put into Wow.

Largest load of crap yet

The guy is obviously looking for a RAF partner.. seriously don't skew things around. He didn't say anything about the game being crap, he just wants to rush to end game.

There is so much content for a new player that it could keep him busy for months before he even reaches end game. Each player plays the way they want, the majority of WoW players believe it or not love questing and playing thru the whole game.

Stop being ridiculous

That is a gamer mentality ...not a WOW mentality. It is the same in every game I have ever played. The best gear is at the end of the game which is why folks race to get there. Don't try to pretend it isn't the same in a single player RPG either. When you killed a big boss in Baldur's gate or Neverwinter Nights you couldn't wait to see what they dropped. It is the fun of the reward and the best rewards are at the end of the games.

Someone mentioned random world events.  This is a very very popular thing to do in MMO's and I cannot understand why the companies that make them cannot figure that out. I play LOTRO and when they had world events they were very well received, Granted the servers that Turbine has are crap and cannot handle a large crowd, but it is great fun to have lots of people involved in a world event (and gives the gm's some fun time too).

Originally posted by Wizardry

I copied this becuase this proves from an actual WOW player that the MAIN game is not worth playing.

The best way to start would be to start the 7 day trial or let somebody Recruit you as a friend, which would be 3x more exp for both people, way to level up many classes extremely fast, and experience the end-game much sooner. Would you be interested in doing RAF?

He is saying the game is crap and that you should SPEED level as fast as possible to get to the "REAL" game which is "END GAME".

So if the Wow players themselves think the game offers nothing other than end game,does it really hold any weight to how many subs it has?

So i would be more concerned as to WHY it  ever had this many subs to begin with if so many that play it think the game was crap?NONE of the 11 million would have known about any end game without first playing the part they admit is crap,so why did all those 12 million keep playing Wow throguh the boring crap part?

No this is NOT a random opinion of one Wow player, i have heard this type of menatality for years now and in many forums and chat inside games.

I think the truth is that players are starting to realize they wasted a lot of their life on a game that really offers nothing you can't get for free.I truly beleive most fo Wow's sub base was people that are attracted to hype and follow their friends becuase they are playing.Now thta there is two new hyped games coming out,their friends and themselves are now attracted to the NEW hype.

So Wow is going to lose easily another 2-5 million by time SWTOR and GW2 releases.It will actually lose even more than that however MANY will keep Wow subs because they are afraid to let go of all that effort they put into Wow.

There was a couple of other posts on that same thread, one of them mine, that advised to NOT rush to endgame and enjoy what the game had to offer. Guess those posts didnt fit the agenda?

Problem is, 10 min playing SWTOR and I can tell you it is terrible.

I created 5 characters to level 5 and they are all exactly the same it feels.  Spam random buttons and stuff does.  Doesn't seem to matter what you press.  Combat is pretty clunky.  Of the 5 classes I tried I really didn't feel like any of them were different at all.

=(

I'm passing on the annual pass and will buy D3 when it releases.  It would only make sense to buy the annual pass if I thought I would play WoW 6 months in the coming year and that's unlikely.  Heck, MoP may not even be out during that time.

ya they recently annonced a lost of 800k  during the Q3 so ya i guess would be close to 1.7 million,

so NA + uk is down to a 3.9 million sub or around that and the rest  of player are in china. and we all know that china dont have sub but a different way of paying.. i think by hours right

ouch, lol they are hurt!

http://wow.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=28229

WOW will probably be around until they are just breaking even...which will be a while. But they will have WOW 2 ready to go. I know the desire for the sandbox fans is to have WOW disappear into thin air but I just don't see Blizzard letting all that player base go. There is too much Lore there and people would flock to an updated version of the game. Despite what the sandbox fans want to think they are the minority I believe. Most people don't have the time in their busy lives to log onto a game and spend 30mins just trying to figure out what to do because you can do anything. And I definately don't want to log on to a game and spend an hour trying to do something just to be killed and have it all taken away.

Originally posted by gibby18

WOW will probably be around until they are just breaking even...which will be a while. But they will have WOW 2 ready to go. I know the desire for the sandbox fans is to have WOW disappear into thin air but I just don't see Blizzard letting all that player base go. There is too much Lore there and people would flock to an updated version of the game. Despite what the sandbox fans want to think they are the minority I believe. Most people don't have the time in their busy lives to log onto a game and spend 30mins just trying to figure out what to do because you can do anything. And I definately don't want to log on to a game and spend an hour trying to do something just to be killed and have it all taken away.

WoW 2!!! do I have to relevel all to 90 again!??

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by precious328



 

So what i'm trying to say is i don't get the reason for your points and i find them flawed. The game is still great unless you've played it for 7 years.. obviously you're tired and older and hopefully found job by now.

 

You're absolutely right. The game is fantastic. It's so fantastic that 1.1 - 1.7 MILLION users quit in a single year. Do you not realize how big that number is?

Age of Conan claims to have around 600k subscribes. This is like having their ENTIRE game vanish... TWICE.

Glad you agree with me now..

Though what do people expect, game has been out for 7 years with 3 new time consuming prospects on the horizon. Not to mention people will jump back into the game for 4.3 to fight death wing.

I mean its about time WoW starts to bleed.. it was bound to happen sooner or later but to say its because the game is crap is pure ignorance.

 

You need a lesson in sarcasm.

Originally posted by MMOrUS

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by MMOrUS

 D3 looks ok but there are other games coming out that look even better, for instance the recently announced Lineage Eternal.

 

 

Lineage eternal is being made by NCSoft.  Doesnt mean it wont be good, but the odds arent in its favor and is it even going to be a 2012 release?

I take it you dislike NCSoft, well with that in mind lets change NCSoft for Trion (though I suspect that will get a thumbs down aswell) and Rise of Nations, this is another top down game, and infact an MMO that looks like it will be a sure fire hit when it goes live, it's also pushing the genre forward where aqs D3 is more of the same.

My point is this, Blizzard isn't really creating anything new, it's resting on it's laurels and relying on past customers sticking with them to buy products that could be better.

Titan may be their only chance of recapturing the customers who are leaving for other games, however lets hope they decide to ditch the long drawn out expansion program they have in place, it's one of the hings holding them back, too little content means bored players and bored players soon look elsewhere, I did.

 

 

 

 

When you have a formula that works (and Im talking Diablo here) why change it that much?  How much has Elder Scrolls really changed from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim?  You tinker too much and you risk alienating your fans.

When I buy Diablo 3 I want something similar to D2.  I dont want LE.  Now, when I buy LE I dont want something similar to D2.

Also fwiw End of Nations is being made by a compnay with two very non innovative RTS's under its belt so its completely unknown if it will be even worth playing.  trion is only the publisher.

Originally posted by Painlezz

Problem is, 10 min playing SWTOR and I can tell you it is terrible.

 

I created 5 characters to level 5 and they are all exactly the same it feels.  Spam random buttons and stuff does.  Doesn't seem to matter what you press.  Combat is pretty clunky.  Of the 5 classes I tried I really didn't feel like any of them were different at all.

 

=(

 

Thats some amazing research right there.  In similar research, all classes in Rift seem to play the same at level 5.  You know, every new character I create in skyrim seems to play the exact same for the first 10 minutes of the game.

by the end of 2012, it will be like, World of What??

LoL

*because GW2 will surely have been released by then

I recently re-subbed to the game out of sheer boredom. I'll play it until GW2 launches. Then goodbye, hopefully forever. 

I don't hate WoW, I have problems with certain aspects of it.

I think what we are seeing is the very start of the decline of WoW. I don't think the game will ever truly die. Look at games like my beloved Ultima Online still plugging along in spite of being pre-historic from a graphics stand point. Wow is dying the death of a thousnad razors. It will slowly see a decline of its massive player base until it is no longer the top dog. It doesnt mean its dead, just that it has come back to earth. 

The fact that people are freaking out over this just shows the power and interest of this game.  It won't be going anywhere.  People stop and start up games all the time.  They just overhauled the graphics with cataclysm and keep updating it.  If original EQ can keep it going, WoW will surely never die.  People just play it too much and get all burnt out and whiny.

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by precious328

#1. The game looks old; the game is old.

If you like the style WoW is still one of the most visually appealing games out there, it could use character updates but it still has a very beautiful world. Yes the game is old.

#2. There used to be an illusion that Blizzard cared 50% for it's customers and 50% for profit. Activision/Blizzard has turned this into 5% customer and 95% profit.

It has to maintain 50/50 otherwise it wouldn't be where its at now. People are taken care of and blizzard devotes a large employee base to maintain a happy playerbase.

#3. MicroTransaction / Cash Shop puts a bad taste in most players mouths.

Its all vanity.. i don't see the issue here. Unless you're referring to the guardian cub which isn't very effecient at making gold.

#4. There are so many newer MMOs out and plenty more to come.

All of the new MMO's out now are trash, the ones to come aren't here.. who is to know what will happen.

#5. Expansions are so redundant and basic. Innovation has been lost.

BC was good, wrath was different but got old quick and cata is good for alt-o-holics and hardcore raiders(4.3)

So what i'm trying to say is i don't get the reason for your points and i find them flawed. The game is still great unless you've played it for 7 years.. {mod edit}

So what are you trying to say is that WoW is great for new players, but for veteran ones it sucks? And if you find the reasons stated in the quote flawed its bacause you have never played another mmo other than WoW, or you still endure that childish and borish creation just because it was great a few years ago, and like me when i played WoW, you think nothing can beat it...well...i also think Michael Jordan is the greatest NBA player ever, but he cant play anymore, hes old for it....but he was the best...like WoW. Just kill that game already.

Originally posted by PadmeAm

I still think though with gradual declining numbers WoW still has some years left...

At least a decade, if it follows a typical MMO decline curve.

I belong to the many people hoping that WoW dies already and releases the market from it's grasp.

Unfortunately Blizzard "inspires" the industry way too much and in every negative sense that came with WoW (see tons of wow clones), so WoW going down may indicate to dev studios and investors the possible end of the P2P era and push F2p/freemium/VIP-member models even more.

I dont see what all the commotion is about.  I made a thread almost a year ago about how I thought the the game world was so static and dead in all the areas that were vanilla besides Ironforge and Orgimmar and even into what I was playing at the time, TBC.

It wasnt that it just felt static and unloved and unused, but it was more like a deep seeded "I hate you" static feeling, like you know only a few straglers have walked most of the vanila paths and the rest wouldnt dare touch it.  I new the population was really bad, hell I couldnt get into any of the dungeons I wanted being a LVL 64. 

Originally posted by eycel

I dont see what all the commotion is about.  I made a thread almost a year ago...I was playing at the time, TBC.

That would be three years ago.  Just sayin'.

no, I was playing TBC but it was after release. 

Roger.

I'm still holding on... for now. Been thinkning to drop my sub soon though. I'm seriously losing intrerest and with new games coming, I'm too much occupied to care about WoW at all anymore.

Only a matter of time before it was to go on the decline. Can't reign on top forever. All good things eventually must come to an end. WoW still has a lot of life left though for years to come.

Originally posted by VoIgore

I belong to the many people hoping that WoW dies already and releases the market from it's grasp.

Unfortunately Blizzard "inspires" the industry way too much and in every negative sense that came with WoW (see tons of wow clones), so WoW going down may indicate to dev studios and investors the possible end of the P2P era and push F2p/freemium/VIP-member models even more.

Really? There isnt enough F2P choices available?  More Asian crap than I care to count and the AAA titles that cant compete all have F2P options now. A handful of P2P  that you dont have to play and you want more?

I think by the summer of 2013 and possibly a lot sooner WoW will announce and extention of free 2 play to levels 1-60 .  Over the course of 2012 they will probably lose anything between 2-4 million players ( maybe more ) and when that happens expanding the current free to play will seem like a good idea .

Originally posted by Painlezz

Problem is, 10 min playing SWTOR and I can tell you it is terrible.

 

I created 5 characters to level 5 and they are all exactly the same it feels.  Spam random buttons and stuff does.  Doesn't seem to matter what you press.  Combat is pretty clunky.  Of the 5 classes I tried I really didn't feel like any of them were different at all.

 

=(

Wut?

You tend to get differentiation between classes in themepark games through abilities. Abilities are gained through level progression.

Level 5 and 10 mins of playing is not a yardstick for such a comparision. If someone doesn't like an aiming mechanic or a UI set-up in that time I could understand it. But class homogeneity... nope.

Originally posted by Rusty715

Originally posted by VoIgore

I belong to the many people hoping that WoW dies already and releases the market from it's grasp.

Unfortunately Blizzard "inspires" the industry way too much and in every negative sense that came with WoW (see tons of wow clones), so WoW going down may indicate to dev studios and investors the possible end of the P2P era and push F2p/freemium/VIP-member models even more.

Really? There isnt enough F2P choices available?  More Asian crap than I care to count and the AAA titles that cant compete all have F2P options now. A handful of P2P  that you dont have to play and you want more?

 

Read my posting again.

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

I think by the summer of 2013 and possibly a lot sooner WoW will announce and extention of free 2 play to levels 1-60 .  Over the course of 2012 they will probably lose anything between 2-4 million players ( maybe more ) and when that happens expanding the current free to play will seem like a good idea .

I don't know why Blizzard would go F2P even if they lose another 2 million players. They will still have strong 7 million playing the game. Never heard of a MMO with 7 million subs suddenly going F2P (oh wait there is no MMO to have that many players). Also the new expansion will certainly get a lot of players back so i hardly doubt that 2 to 4 million is a good speculation. Losing around 4 mill players in one year is a very sharp decline, sorry but your numbers are way too unrealistic and far fetched.

...and with the upcoming MMos (like SWTOR, Guild Wars 2, Tera, etc...) will lose a lot more, and they know...that is why they are focusing on the Asian market.

I don´t even care if WoW goes free to play. That game died after the WOTLK expac for me.

I like to compare WoW to AoL that is if people actually remember what America Online was the most popular Internet Service Provider.

1.  AoL was crap, it was always crap, it didn't matter how many people subscribed to their service. It was still crap. Anyone who thinks their service was good at any point in its' history is just being Ingorant.

2.  AoL was dumbed down lowest common denominator Internet. It apealed to a lot of people who didn't understand what the Internet was and people who were not ready for real Internet access.

3.  AoL was heavily marketed in ways everything from TV ads to other product tie ins to even Randomly sending out AoL CDs through snail mail.

4.  At its' height of popularity AoL had 50% of the ISP market. It became a self contained center of cool with people using AoL instant messager like it was the second coming.

5.  Eventually AoL users did wise up that the service was just over hyped trash and that there were way better ISPs out there. They left slowly at fist: ten thousand here, hundred thousand there. But then BAM it happened millions woke up and quit the service seamingly overnight. That is because it became "uncool" to use their service. In two short years AoL went from King of the ISPs to completely irrelevent.

Replace AoL with WoW and Internet with MMORPG and you have a good History of where this is going. WoW is on early stages of Step 5. WoW will likely lose 6 to 8 million subs in the next year because the trend is accelerationg it cool factor that gained them all the subs in the first place will now work against them. The #1 reason people will give for quitting will be:

"I quit because my friends quit."

Then some time after that ex WoW player will look back and say "I can't beleive I used to play that horrible game."

Dare I say it?

Yes, I dare. "Ding, dong, the witch is dead".

Well, okay, not really munchkins. Just entering that final stage of old age, complete with senility and the desperate need to hang on to former glories.

WoW has had its time and it's flourished in that time. There's no harm in standing to one side to let the whipper snappers take up the mantle.

WoW changed the genre (whether it was for the good or the bad is up to the individual, but not really important), but now it's time for the likes of Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic, The Secret World and a bundle of other titles to jump in to the ring and slog it out to decide who's fit to have their say in changing the genre.

To be honest with you, I'd rather not have a best. I'd rather have a myriad of other titles all competing on equal terms. That way there's less of a target for forum goers to continually compare against or for developers to say "you know, let's just make that and call it something else".

We might just have a a buzzing MMO scene rather than a stale one dominated by a grand patriarch that is followed by a gang of rats all trying to emulate him.

Well I seem to have stated my thoughts really, even though I said that opinion wasn't necessary.

And the ruby slippers? Well they can lie in a muddy hollow for all I care, because there really should be no holder of the title 'master'.

True, that Pokemon idea smells like a trial for when and if the games go F2P to me as well. If it becomes popular it is a possible revenue that more or less could pay for running the game by itself.

But SOE tried the same thing in EQ2: Kingdom of the skies and it didn't work there. That of course proves nothing since EQ2 have a older playerbase than Wow and it is a bit differently made but still, I wouldn't call it a success until it is proven so.

As for Diablo 3, I heard dates from 1996 and forward so I am taking any statement when it will be released with a rather large grain of salt. It will be eventually and I dount Blizzard will be in any financial crisis the next 5 years (well, any real crisis anyways, that some moron in accounting assumes they will make larger profits than they actually make is rather common).

Any smart company will have a plan for when their best seller starts to earn less and less money, it will happen to any game eventually. 

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by nyxium

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.

 

Bad taste? His comment was dead on. And if you think a Western audience would embrace this panda silliness more so than the East, then man, you are painfully out of touch with reality.

Are you serious? In china the panda is pretty damn close to being a national treasure and here we have a game that takes that treasure and turns it into something else. Some in china may love it and others will dispise it for it desecrates their treasure. Pandas are part of their culture and are viewed quite differently there than they are here.

It was the west that LOVED the pandaren, it was begged for since BC and it was assumed to be one of the new races then because of its pressence in Warcraft3. Get a clue as you obviously have none.

Originally posted by Novusod

 

 

 

 

I like to compare WoW to AoL that is if people actually remember what America Online was the most popular Internet Service Provider.

 

1.  AoL was crap, it was always crap, it didn't matter how many people subscribed to their service. It was still crap. Anyone who thinks their service was good at any point in its' history is just being Ingorant.

 

2.  AoL was dumbed down lowest common denominator Internet. It apealed to a lot of people who didn't understand what the Internet was and people who were not ready for real Internet access.

 

3.  AoL was heavily marketed in ways everything from TV ads to other product tie ins to even Randomly sending out AoL CDs through snail mail.

 

4.  At its' height of popularity AoL had 50% of the ISP market. It became a self contained center of cool with people using AoL instant messager like it was the second coming.

 

5.  Eventually AoL users did wise up that the service was just over hyped trash and that there were way better ISPs out there. They left slowly at fist: ten thousand here, hundred thousand there. But then BAM it happened millions woke up and quit the service seamingly overnight. That is because it became "uncool" to use their service. In two short years AoL went from King of the ISPs to completely irrelevent.

 

Replace AoL with WoW and Internet with MMORPG and you have a good History of where this is going. WoW is on early stages of Step 5. WoW will likely lose 6 to 8 million subs in the next year because the trend is accelerationg it cool factor that gained them all the subs in the first place will now work against them. The #1 reason people will give for quitting will be:

"I quit because my friends quit."

Then some time after that ex WoW player will look back and say "I can't beleive I used to play that horrible game."

This.

I guess that people leaving WoW is not going to be some 300k here and 250k there, slowly draggin it down like happening in other games. I will very likely rather be a massive snowball effect that will quickly develop an unstoppable dynamic on it's own.

People always underestimate the social factor about it. "I quit because my friends quit" will be just following accordingly to "I only play because my friends play", which is by far the #1 reason for people sticking to the game today.

At some point every MMO dies. Companies can't afford to run the old servers forever when newer innovations arise and the old just doesn't cut it anymore. I left WoW after WOTLK and played some of Cataclysm. Don't get me wrong. I really don't have a problem with WoW. I just want something new.  And as of a month ago I started playing again. I really don't mind the break from all my more serious games. And I'm willing to give the expansion a shot. I don't mind CS. I just mind buff items being available in CS. But as many customers lost, you have to think. The dedicated subs moved on and that 1.7 mil could probably be replaced with at least 75% percent of that with new more casual players being that it seems like Blizz is going this direction. But that really doesn't bother me either. I don't have the time to spend a week or two grinding. Meeting the demands for scheduled raids and instances. I play when I can. But I enjoy it more. So I guess I'm one of those casuals........since 2006. My highest toon is only a 79.  But thats just how it is. There's an MMO for everyone that fits their needs. The problem is WoW had built the opposite of what it once was. From hardcore serious dedication to a weekinf warrior fest. Blizz isn't going to hurt over this. But maybe they'll start on a WoW2. And leave WoW open for the casuals.

Originally posted by VoIgore

Originally posted by Rusty715

Originally posted by VoIgore

I belong to the many people hoping that WoW dies already and releases the market from it's grasp.

Unfortunately Blizzard "inspires" the industry way too much and in every negative sense that came with WoW (see tons of wow clones), so WoW going down may indicate to dev studios and investors the possible end of the P2P era and push F2p/freemium/VIP-member models even more.

Really? There isnt enough F2P choices available?  More Asian crap than I care to count and the AAA titles that cant compete all have F2P options now. A handful of P2P  that you dont have to play and you want more?

 

Read my posting again.

Yes, I was in a hurry at the time and misread. Im sorry. I will amend it to just say, I hope you are wrong.

Originally posted by VoIgore

I guess that people leaving WoW is not going to be some 300k here and 250k there, slowly draggin it down like happening in other games. I will very likely rather be a massive snowball effect that will quickly develop an unstoppable dynamic on it's own.

No evidence suggests that.  Take a look at EQ's falloff curve, or DAoC's.  Hell, even AoC and WAR.

Populations can sometimes take steep, precipitous drops in a hurry (bad expansion often the cause), but around 50-200k the population bottoms out.  You hit the core of people for whom this is the best of all possible worlds, even with everyone else gone, and the deluge of players leaving slows to a trickle.

Now WoW's got gobs of servers to merge/shut down before it hits minimum stable population, and that should be a serious issue.  But you're still going to hit the core of players who just won't ever leave, until the company pulls the plug.

Then again, it can always go Kotick's Dream--P2W ca$h $hop.  F2P and live forever.  Who knows.

I just never liked that Blizzard STILL had yet to update the original races' character models.  Seriously, the human male model was bad when the game launched, its just getting worse.  Though I doubt that would stop the numbers from dropping. 

Once the exodus starts it begins to feed on itself and accelerate. It is also very difficult to turn around.

You will routinely hear WoW players mention that the game is too repetitive.  Oddly, I found a quote from Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street where he explains that his original profession of marine biology was only enjoyable for the first few years, until he found that his profession involved "a lot of doing the same thing over and over again."  He left, and now heads up a game with content where players do the same thing over and over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Street

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by VoIgore

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Now WoW's got gobs of servers to merge/shut down before it hits minimum stable population, and that should be a serious issue.  But you're still going to hit the core of players who just won't ever leave, until the company pulls the plug.

Then again, it can always go Kotick's Dream--P2W ca$h $hop.  F2P and live forever.  Who knows.

Blizzard had the opportunity to merge/shut down servers but instead chose to come up with the LFD. Convenient but has done the community no service. 

They'd rather come up with other community killers, making the game even more lobby based and solo friendly than it already is just to not have to lose face with the closing of servers.

For shame.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by nyxium

And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!

Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.

 

Bad taste? His comment was dead on. And if you think a Western audience would embrace this panda silliness more so than the East, then man, you are painfully out of touch with reality.

Are you serious? In china the panda is pretty damn close to being a national treasure and here we have a game that takes that treasure and turns it into something else. Some in china may love it and others will dispise it for it desecrates their treasure. Pandas are part of their culture and are viewed quite differently there than they are here.

It was the west that LOVED the pandaren, it was begged for since BC and it was assumed to be one of the new races then because of its pressence in Warcraft3. Get a clue as you obviously have none.

 

Pandaren's "presence" in WC3 was as an April Fool's joke, bud. WC3 was an amazing title, but the fact still remains: Pandaren was a joke. A younger Eastern audience is going to eat up the idea of creating a Panda race in the World of Warcraft. Where you got the ridiculous notion (aside from the cries of a very small vocal internet fucking forum minority) that WoW's Western fans were going to embrace this joke, is beyond me. Out of touch is an understatement.

So his notion makes him out of touch but somehow your notion is the ultimate truth? what is your notion based on that everyone is going to hate Panda and that gives you the right to insult him and act so obnoxious? ever heard of this word 'irony'?

So much doom and gloom in this thread. I am definitely no Blizzard fangirl, but I think that some people are over-reacting, not seeing the bigger picture. Perhaps it is the forums that are making them short-sighted.

I doubt highly WoW is going to die anytime soon, if ever. I think what we will see is more deals that wrap up Blizzard games with the WoW subscription. It won't really pay for Blizzard to go Freemium because they will lose their upfront money from subs. It is too lucrative for them to lose it. I reckon they will expand the cash shop and hope that people will pay for both subs and vanity items.

Look at D2, SC, and WC3. They are all still ongoing, and for the age of those games, going strong. In 10 years time, I would not be surprised if WoW still has a few million players. Blizzard has a strong fanbase for any game they release, so I don't see why WoW should be any different. Is a game with several million players dying/dead?

Originally posted by Cecropia

 

Pandaren's "presence" in WC3 was as an April Fool's joke, bud. WC3 was an amazing title, but the fact still remains: Pandaren was a joke. A younger Eastern audience is going to eat up the idea of creating a Panda race in the World of Warcraft. Where you got the ridiculous notion (aside from the cries of a very small vocal internet fucking forum minority) that WoW's Western fans were going to embrace this joke, is beyond me. Out of touch is an understatement.

When BC was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there.  When they were not, there was some grumbling.

When LK was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there.  When they were not, there was some grumbling.

When Cata was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there.  When they were not, there was some grumbling.

MoP is announced.  There are going to be Pandaren...and...there is some grumbling.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

When BC was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there.  When they were not, there was some grumbling.

When LK was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there.  When they were not, there was some grumbling.

When Cata was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there.  When they were not, there was some grumbling.

MoP is announced.  There are going to be Pandaren...and...there is some grumbling.

Yeah, I don't understand why people are getting their panties in a bundle about Pandaren. I am a bit disappointed that pandas were chosen over some other races and that they are neutral (eep in PvP), but there are other things coming in the expac that make me go huh far more than Pandaren.

Anyway, the moral of the story is game developers are between a rock and a hard place. No choice they ever make is going to be good, so hey... just make some choice that fits the game and say "Screw it" :)

Originally posted by MurlockDance

Yeah, I don't understand why people are getting their panties in a bundle about Pandaren. I am a bit disappointed that pandas were chosen over some other races and that they are neutral (eep in PvP), but there are other things coming in the expac that make me go huh far more than Pandaren.

Anyway, the moral of the story is game developers are between a rock and a hard place. No choice they ever make is going to be good, so hey... just make some choice that fits the game and say "Screw it" :)

The Talent System changes are the biggest turn off for me.  The Talent changes with Cata was led to my shortest period of play after an xpac.

The illusion of choice sells...it sold RIFT.  All these choices that Blizzard is making - how long before they put out an xpac where it becomes WoW Heroes . . . and you pick a canned toon to play?

WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.

I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.

But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.

Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.

WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.

Originally posted by Mupf

WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.

I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.

But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.

Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.

WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.

And WOW will survive for many more years, or you telling me it is goign to shut down in a year or so?. As far as maintaining huge playerbase what other MMOS do we know that have done it over period of 7 years? sorry but you are contradicting your own post since there is nothing to compare with WOW in terms of player base and success.

Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by Mupf

WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.

I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.

But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.

Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.

WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.

And WOW will survive for many more years, or you telling me it is goign to shut down in a year or so?. As far as maintaining huge playerbase what other MMOS do we know that have done it over period of 7 years? sorry but you are contradicting your own post since there is nothing to compare with WOW in terms of player base and success.

"Maintain" is the important word for me. WoW did not "maintain" its playerbase. Someone in this thread asked about people from beta still playing the game, and my guess would be: close to none. WoW re-invented its playbase, and that's what I see as the worst part of its whole development in recent years. The Panda-Stuff will be another reinvention, Generation 3 of WoW-Players will see the light.
And although you can't compare the numbers, there are games out there that managed to maintain the beta-playerbase. WoW just doesn't care. And I can't stand carelessness.

Originally posted by Mupf

"Maintain" is the important word for me. WoW did not "maintain" its playerbase. Someone in this thread asked about people from beta still playing the game, and my guess would be: close to none. WoW re-invented its playbase, and that's what I see as the worst part of its whole development in recent years. The Panda-Stuff will be another reinvention, Generation 3 of WoW-Players will see the light.

And although you can't compare the numbers, there are games out there that managed to maintain the beta-playerbase. WoW just doesn't care. And I can't stand carelessness.

 

WoW is not thought about by its devs as a game with high player retention. They (re)designed it to be appealing to newcomers, not to keep existing ones.

And as someone else stated, the original game was so good that many players said, for a long time "I don't really like this or that change, but that's how life apparently is, I'll live with it. Still a great game". Until one day, they said "Enough. This is no longer the game I fell in love with."

Thirdly, Blizzard lives to large part from their once pristine reputation and great past games. It's cool to play Blizzard games (or at least, was. Times are changing, I think). But they are sabotaging themselves because they've entered the sphere of "everything we touch turns to gold. Apparently, we can do anything!"

To pick up on your "disregard": I completely agree. Blizzard shows a sickening disregard for its games, for its reputation, for its customers. And its games.

I once had respect for the great company that gave me Diablo, WarCraft and StarCraft. I weep for the company that now gives us a cash shop, real-money Auction House, completely flounderes as to where WoW's road will go,  and who mutilated Diablo III to a money-grabbing husk of a game. Not to mention its enforced online play.

The loss of subs was forecast some time ago by Blizzard themselves. Their primary goal was to cannibalize their own sub base before the new flock of MMO's pulled them away.

To that end, Titan was what should have been announced at Blizzcon, not MoP...

It's going to be a nasty hit too because MoP should, by all rights, be free.

They can promote Diablo, MoP, Dota and all their other endeavors and that's all great.

It's not going to cannibalize their playerbase as planned though.

Titan and hype for Titan could blunt the frenzy being made by upcoming games like TOR/GW2/etc .

We've all heard for years that  "fill in the blank" game's is going to be a WoW-killer.

At this point, we know the game is going to decline due to its' old age and retire quietly.

The bigger question is which game will succeed it.

Originally posted by Mupf

Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by Mupf

WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.

I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.

But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.

Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.

WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.

And WOW will survive for many more years, or you telling me it is goign to shut down in a year or so?. As far as maintaining huge playerbase what other MMOS do we know that have done it over period of 7 years? sorry but you are contradicting your own post since there is nothing to compare with WOW in terms of player base and success.

"Maintain" is the important word for me. WoW did not "maintain" its playerbase. Someone in this thread asked about people from beta still playing the game, and my guess would be: close to none. WoW re-invented its playbase, and that's what I see as the worst part of its whole development in recent years. The Panda-Stuff will be another reinvention, Generation 3 of WoW-Players will see the light.
And although you can't compare the numbers, there are games out there that managed to maintain the beta-playerbase. WoW just doesn't care. And I can't stand carelessness.

Maintainign few beta players over the years doesn't equate to maintaining the playerbase at large and that was your argument in previous post. And yes there is still no other MMO to comapre with WOW when it comes to maintaining huge player base over the period of 7 years, hence any comparison is moot. WOW will continue to maintain its players over the years since many MMO are doing quite well with 200K subs or less. It will be foolish to think that WOW won't be able to survive for another 5 years and will just cease to exist.

Originally posted by Novusod

 

 

 

 

I like to compare WoW to AoL that is if people actually remember what America Online was the most popular Internet Service Provider.

 

1.  AoL was crap, it was always crap, it didn't matter how many people subscribed to their service. It was still crap. Anyone who thinks their service was good at any point in its' history is just being Ingorant.

 

2.  AoL was dumbed down lowest common denominator Internet. It apealed to a lot of people who didn't understand what the Internet was and people who were not ready for real Internet access.

 

3.  AoL was heavily marketed in ways everything from TV ads to other product tie ins to even Randomly sending out AoL CDs through snail mail.

 

4.  At its' height of popularity AoL had 50% of the ISP market. It became a self contained center of cool with people using AoL instant messager like it was the second coming.

 

5.  Eventually AoL users did wise up that the service was just over hyped trash and that there were way better ISPs out there. They left slowly at fist: ten thousand here, hundred thousand there. But then BAM it happened millions woke up and quit the service seamingly overnight. That is because it became "uncool" to use their service. In two short years AoL went from King of the ISPs to completely irrelevent.

 

Replace AoL with WoW and Internet with MMORPG and you have a good History of where this is going. WoW is on early stages of Step 5. WoW will likely lose 6 to 8 million subs in the next year because the trend is accelerationg it cool factor that gained them all the subs in the first place will now work against them. The #1 reason people will give for quitting will be:

"I quit because my friends quit."

Then some time after that ex WoW player will look back and say "I can't beleive I used to play that horrible game."

 

that could be applied to any popular game or trend that people play now, COD, Uncharted, Halo, "SEASON PASS", etc....just PLAY THE SAME GAME 6+ HOOURS EVERYDAY FOR MORE THAN 1 YEAR....

Guess what?....you WILL get bored...

just try any P2P, F2P game out there, even DCUO couldn't do better than the run of the mill mmo....why?, Casual play....there will not be any "hardcore" mmo in the future as popular as WoW...

P.S. Read most of the comments here, even in new games most people are expecting a Second Coming of the vanilla WoW feeling....they will be dissappointed, even with GW2 and SWTOR.....we are in the "Casual Era". Hell, Dark Soul's is considered "hardcore".

Battletoads for the NES was "hardcore", try finishing it without cheats....

I suspect this has more to do with the demographics of gaming than anything else, but having dropped in to see cataclysm and have been appalled at how much more unfriendly the game feels with the new guild system.  I'm not a terribly social person to begin with but I love the "shared world" feel of MMOs.  Unfortunately WoW's approach to "social gaming" is making me feel shut out of the game rather than more interconnected.

I'm a solo player - I love the shared world feel of MMOs, but I don't do groups.  WoW's dungeon/raid structure is already hostile to my playstyle, delaying my access to the endings of plotlines by an expansion or two until I can solo them.  But now, every time I log in, I run a guantlet of spams randomly inviting me to join quilds (one of the first things I figured out was how to auto-block request windows).

I don't want to join someone else's guild and I don't want to go around spamming for signatures to set up my own private alt-guild.  So in the end, the game just feels ... itchy.  Even though I don't see as many players logged in in one place, it has developed a sort of unfriendly, trapped-in-too-small-a-room feeling to it rather than a social feel to it.

Originally posted by maplestone

I suspect this has more to do with the demographics of gaming than anything else, but having dropped in to see cataclysm and have been appalled at how much more unfriendly the game feels with the new guild system.  I'm not a terribly social person to begin with but I love the "shared world" feel of MMOs.  Unfortunately WoW's approach to "social gaming" is making me feel shut out of the game rather than more interconnected.

I'm a solo player - I love the shared world feel of MMOs, but I don't do groups.  WoW's dungeon/raid structure is already hostile to my playstyle, delaying my access to the endings of plotlines by an expansion or two until I can solo them.  But now, every time I log in, I run a guantlet of spams randomly inviting me to join quilds (one of the first things I figured out was how to auto-block request windows).

I don't want to join someone else's guild and I don't want to go around spamming for signatures to set up my own private alt-guild.  So in the end, the game just feels ... itchy.  Even though I don't see as many players logged in in one place, it has developed a sort of unfriendly, trapped-in-too-small-a-room feeling to it rather than a social feel to it.

I'm a little confused by this, you are a solo player but you're complaining that you can't solo group content when its released... Group content and the LFD system shouldn't bother you whatsoever.

The guild spam and invite thing? that isn't a game issue that is a player issue and blizzard gives the tools to stop it. Why is this even a complaint.

Leveling on several servers I still see plenty of players running around..

Sounds like you should stick to single players and pretend the NPC's are PC's.. from my understanding that is the only thing you get out of an mmo. Just knowing you're not alone is enough for you.

Originally posted by Aori

(1) I'm a little confused by this, you are a solo player but you're complaining that you can't solo group content when its released... Group content and the LFD system shouldn't bother you whatsoever.

(2) The guild spam and invite thing? that isn't a game issue that is a player issue and blizzard gives the tools to stop it. Why is this even a complaint.

(3) Leveling on several servers I still see plenty of players running around..

(4) Sounds like you should stick to single players and pretend the NPC's are PC's.. from my understanding that is the only thing you get out of an mmo. Just knowing you're not alone is enough for you.

 

(1) Believe it or not, there are actually stories in WoW - but the stories all end at a dungeon or raid. If you are a solo player, you get all the buildup - but you don't get the climax.  This isn't a complaint (it's too fundemental to the design of the game), it's just an observation on the experience a solo player has.

(2) It's a broken system - it's designed to make the game more social and interconnected, and I'm pointing out that to some players it has the exact opposite effect, making them feel more disconnected and alienated.  This is an issue.

(3) Oh, I don't find it empty - just not quite as packed as it felt on my last visit.  This is not a good or bad thing - I just wanted to clarify that the slightly claustraphobic feel I experienced was not due to overcrowding, but rather do the way people were encouraged to interact.

(4) NPCs are not people.  People are not NPCs. Single-player RPGs and solo-play MMOs are completely different experiences and no amount of imagination will change that.  If this point of view is baffling, I simple ask you accept that I must be a strange and mysterious person who does not fit into your model of the world.

WoW: Is it over father?

Blizzard: No king rules forever my son.

WoW: I see... only free to play...

Vetran Players: Tell them only that the Lich King died... and that World of Warcraft died with him.

people still care even they left the game..WoW rules..you will be back :D

Its bound to happen, its impossible to be number one for so long. WoW had a hell of a run though and im sad to see it go :( [Btw i play gw now, and have not played wow since wotlk]

I dunno, Diablo 3 and it's Item Mall (basically...) on top of almost requiring you to be in the pressence of a Blizzard employee that's watching over your back on top of only playing online is even more "Come on..."

There's a lot to hate about Diablo 3 when you take out its hype of being Diablo and look at its "features"...

Originally posted by zellmer

I dunno, Diablo 3 and it's Item Mall (basically...) on top of almost requiring you to be in the pressence of a Blizzard employee that's watching over your back on top of only playing online is even more "Come on..."

 

There's a lot to hate about Diablo 3 when you take out its hype of being Diablo and look at its "features"...

 

Thought this was a WoW thread..

Though anyways there is no item mall and it isn't even remotely close to one. I don't get your being in the presence of a blizz employee comment.

There is only a lot of hate about Diablo 3 on these forums.. there is some slight bias here.

Originally posted by zellmer

I dunno, Diablo 3 and it's Item Mall (basically...) on top of almost requiring you to be in the pressence of a Blizzard employee that's watching over your back on top of only playing online is even more "Come on..."

There's a lot to hate about Diablo 3 when you take out its hype of being Diablo and look at its "features"...

Doesn't matter, it will sell great anyways, it is a Diablo game.

I don't think it can get as much income as Blizzard gotten from Wow of course, and if they arent careful Diablo 4 will not sell so good but right now Diablo 3 will sell because it is Diablo and many people remember those games foundly including me.

If they mess it up then Torchlight 2 might take over those players instead, but Blizzard will still make a fortune on box sales/Steam downloads.

Originally posted by Aori

Thought this was a WoW thread..

Though anyways there is no item mall and it isn't even remotely close to one. I don't get your being in the presence of a blizz employee comment.

There is only a lot of hate about Diablo 3 on these forums.. there is some slight bias here.

Well, it is a little more complicated since you sell and buy stuff for actual money.

It is kinda a item mall but you both buy and sell stuff in it, like SOEs exchange servers.

Lets agree and say that it isn't a traditional item mall even if you likely can buy most items in the game there for real money.

And it ios kinda on topic, or close at least since many assumes that the players Wow loses will move to D3 instead. Maybe they are right.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Aori

Thought this was a WoW thread..

Though anyways there is no item mall and it isn't even remotely close to one. I don't get your being in the presence of a blizz employee comment.

There is only a lot of hate about Diablo 3 on these forums.. there is some slight bias here.

Well, it is a little more complicated since you sell and buy stuff for actual money.

It is kinda a item mall but you both buy and sell stuff in it, like SOEs exchange servers.

Lets agree and say that it isn't a traditional item mall even if you likely can buy most items in the game there for real money.

And it ios kinda on topic, or close at least since many assumes that the players Wow loses will move to D3 instead. Maybe they are right.

Sure but there was no point in his topic.. it was just him pointing out how he doesn't like diablo 3.

Considering each item takes time to be earned and put up nothing changes, the time put in per item is still there thus keeping the balance. It isn't like a item mall where everyone flocks and can buy the top weapon and you see 50% of the community exactly the same. This obviously won't happen, balance is still maintained.

A bit tricky but its a whole new beast i don't believe deserves the P2W or Cash Shop titles yet.

would just like to point out that

i was 30 7 years ago WoW was my first mmo and it was good i had fun met some good people that i still talk to and play with today , i also met  to many to count  bad people who used the game to hate on people , point is we grow as players i for one need a more alive game that helps me to play with poeple and not make it a mmo single player game, for me as soon as i found out about Guild Wars 2 that was it i had to leave WoW, SWTOR will pass the time for now but its is still stuck in the past with the holy trinity thing,

as people have said wow is bleeding but still a old good game but now im old i need new game skills to keep me intrested and the game fresh with hope gw2 will be that game.

Everquest is still going after almost 13 years. I played 1999-2003 ish and have probably played 6 mmo's since then. I miss Everquest and am occasionally tempted to start it again. I keep telling myself to leave it be, it was what it was, yet I get cravings. I don't feel that with WoW or any other game I dedicated hours, months, or years too.

How does a company put a mmo out with the magic of Everquest? That is the keyword: Magic. All the people who played EQ way back when know what I'm talking about when I say Magic. The new generation only know WoW and don't know what it was like to WORK for the level cap.

Imagine in WoW you had to spend hours just to get your corpse and ALL items and equipment back after death. Go through hell levels where it took a weeks to get through a level playing every day, all day. 20 minute boat rides only to get slaughtered upon arrival because of an opposing faction (butcherblock, overthere). A community so tight that you make real life freinds for eternity.

I'm waiting for that challenge again.

Here's the latest report:

This brings us to 1.7 million subscribers lost in the last 3 quarters. Some things they made note of on the call:

• Most of the subscriptions were lost in China.
• There is normally an increase in subscriptions around December.
• The decreased profit came from all of the games in development and no launches occurring.
• There will be at least two major releases next year.

Originally posted by Subilac

Everquest is still going after almost 13 years. I played 1999-2003 ish and have probably played 6 mmo's since then. I miss Everquest and am occasionally tempted to start it again. I keep telling myself to leave it be, it was what it was, yet I get cravings. I don't feel that with WoW or any other game I dedicated hours, months, or years too.

How does a company put a mmo out with the magic of Everquest? That is the keyword: Magic. All the people who played EQ way back when know what I'm talking about when I say Magic. The new generation only know WoW and don't know what it was like to WORK for the level cap.

Imagine in WoW you had to spend hours just to get your corpse and ALL items and equipment back after death. Go through hell levels where it took a weeks to get through a level playing every day, all day. 20 minute boat rides only to get slaughtered upon arrival because of an opposing faction (butcherblock, overthere). A community so tight that you make real life freinds for eternity.

I'm waiting for that challenge again.

Wow's population goes up and down all the time, people tend to flock back for the new patches and expansions, but people havent felt the need to go back lately cause the last few patches and Cata havent been really up to spec.

WoW is being overshadowed now by the new MMO's on the market, the content they release is completed far to easily, I dont see this new expansion helping much, uless it makes the game actually hard to play again like it should be.

Wow, a lot of bitching and whining with very few replies mentioning WoW's current subscriber base. Yes it has "lost" a lot of subs, more than most MMO's could handle, but WoW could lose over HALF its player base and still make a profit!

It's what, 7 years old now? I don't think the 10 million plus sub base is none too shabby tbh.

So what if the shareholders worry about a number? Think they have any clue about the actual game?

Also, you do realise that the sub is not one number for each territory don't you? You do not pay the same in say UK or USA as you might in some Asian countries, so a number of subs does not give you an accurate picture of money taken....

And hey, if people think WoW is dead, which it isn't, just wait till this time next year after SWTOR, GW2 and too many others to mention have come out. The number of subs out there WILL of course drop dramatically, but WoW will still have numbers that most MMO's would kill for.

And finally of course, there is the small matter of games such as D3 and Titan on the horizon, Activision will still grasp our money somehow....

I have played WoW on and off since the OB, and although the shine has gone for me, it still holds many fond memories. I can see BOTH sides of the love or hate it arguments (those of a sensible, coherent nature ofc!), but as a player, these numbers would not worry me in the slightest.

By far the funniest thing in this thread is the Blizzard worship going on by the people desperate to defend it.

Why defend Blizzard? firstly it is not even Blizzard anymore right? It was bought by a company that comes across in every way as money sucking.

Saying WoW is crap is not ignorance...we have all played it and thus nobody is ignorant.

If I say it is crap now, and I do then it is indeed crap to me. why would you argue that? It seems obvious to me the WoW haters are the ones that hate what WoW has done to the industry as a whole and to it's own game. Thus they properly relish it's demise.

WoW is a  non gamers game. It could have gone in a gamer direction. There is a reason my sister n law plays WoW. She is not a gamer.

Here is the kicker though. To lose that many people in a year ia a wake up call. One has to be blind and refuse to understand business at it's most basic level to claim this is not a tragedy.

It is silly to defend it here. We all know it, we have all played it, if you love it so darn much you should be re learning your class as it has been 24 hours and it must have been needlessly changed by now :)

Why be here when you also could be having fun with the innovative end game?

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by zellmer

I dunno, Diablo 3 and it's Item Mall (basically...) on top of almost requiring you to be in the pressence of a Blizzard employee that's watching over your back on top of only playing online is even more "Come on..."

 

There's a lot to hate about Diablo 3 when you take out its hype of being Diablo and look at its "features"...

 

Thought this was a WoW thread..

Though anyways there is no item mall and it isn't even remotely close to one. I don't get your being in the presence of a blizz employee comment.

There is only a lot of hate about Diablo 3 on these forums.. there is some slight bias here.

 

From who it seems. Biased would imply what? I am one I suppose you would say is biased?

I was looking forward to Diablo3 until they annouced the reasons I wont be buying it. I am biased?

On the other hand you bitch and moan this is not a D3 thread but does not stop you at all?

Mirror neearby?

Originally posted by Ramzeppelin

By far the funniest thing in this thread is the Blizzard worship going on by the people desperate to defend it.

Why defend Blizzard? firstly it is not even Blizzard anymore right? It was bought by a company that comes across in every way as money sucking.

Saying WoW is crap is not ignorance...we have all played it and thus nobody is ignorant.

If I say it is crap now, and I do then it is indeed crap to me. why would you argue that? It seems obvious to me the WoW haters are the ones that hate what WoW has done to the industry as a whole and to it's own game. Thus they properly relish it's demise.

WoW is a  non gamers game. It could have gone in a gamer direction. There is a reason my sister n law plays WoW. She is not a gamer.

Here is the kicker though. To lose that many people in a year ia a wake up call. One has to be blind and refuse to understand business at it's most basic level to claim this is not a tragedy.

It is silly to defend it here. We all know it, we have all played it, if you love it so darn much you should be re learning your class as it has been 24 hours and it must have been needlessly changed by now :)

Why be here when you also could be having fun with the innovative end game?

 

 

Ill make your words mine. Played it for almost 4 years, loved it, and the rest is summed up in your words.

WOW lost enough subs this year to triple the population of any of the WOW clones and still has 9 million or more players than any of these said clones.  Trust me, I understand as well as anyone that WOW is getting old and I too would like to find an alternative. Ive tried many and none measure up. The haters can and do pray for the destruction of the game. But if it happened, and it wont for years yet to come, what would they have to gain?  The same twisted satisfaction that the SWG haters get now that its closing? SWTOR is proof that the "wow clones" are not going away. Just look at the preorder numbers for that game. If WOW died today, tomorrow you would see 10 just like it go into production. The WOW formula makes money and lots of it. Its not going away even if WOW does.

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by zellmer

I dunno, Diablo 3 and it's Item Mall (basically...) on top of almost requiring you to be in the pressence of a Blizzard employee that's watching over your back on top of only playing online is even more "Come on..."

 

There's a lot to hate about Diablo 3 when you take out its hype of being Diablo and look at its "features"...

 

Thought this was a WoW thread..

Though anyways there is no item mall and it isn't even remotely close to one. I don't get your being in the presence of a blizz employee comment.

There is only a lot of hate about Diablo 3 on these forums.. there is some slight bias here.

Somebody didn't read the article

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

right over his head.

Originally posted by zellmer

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by zellmer

I dunno, Diablo 3 and it's Item Mall (basically...) on top of almost requiring you to be in the pressence of a Blizzard employee that's watching over your back on top of only playing online is even more "Come on..."

 

There's a lot to hate about Diablo 3 when you take out its hype of being Diablo and look at its "features"...

 

Thought this was a WoW thread..

Though anyways there is no item mall and it isn't even remotely close to one. I don't get your being in the presence of a blizz employee comment.

There is only a lot of hate about Diablo 3 on these forums.. there is some slight bias here.

Somebody didn't read the article

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

right over his head.

The article unless i missed it hardly mentions anything about D3 aside from releasing it and its annual pass option. I don't get what you were trying to accomplish by posting what you did.. explain it to me as it makes no sense.