Hmmm.

Nothing about this on the CoH site as yet.

Wait....in order to put a greater focus on CoH, they are reducing the team size?  Some one explain how that works to me.

Seems like the focus would remain the same, but content and fixes would come out slower.

There's not really a long term future in CoH these days.  Going rogue was probably the last major paid expansion, and they know that investing a lot of money past this point is futile. 

Sadly rogue was not a game changer.  It refreshed the graphics and added some content, but it didn't address a lot of things that could keep the game growing instead of shrinking like pvp zones, base raids, and server populations (on some servers).

I enjoyed the game for many months, and hope that other mmo's incorporate some of it's ideas.  It's responsive, visceral, and tactical combat was heads and shoulders above 90% of other mmo's

Why do PvPers think it's all about PvP? CoH has been doing great since Going Rogue came out. It's brought a lot of people back to the game. I, for one, have been really enjoying the new content and look forward to the next two updates.

I bought a copy of "Going Rogue" from an ebay seller for about $15, played it for a couple of hours and haven't picked it up again. I've played every major update since release, but there's just not enough there to keep me engaged.

If they are "refocusing" after this last release, perhaps they are trying to bring in new leads for a CoH successor.   I think they've pushed CoX along as far as they could,  theres no use in trying to improve at this point.  The next thing I see them doing is starting from scratch.

Wasn't there some talk a few months back about a possible "City of Heroes 2"?

I don't have a link but there was speculation about 6 or 8 months ago that CoH2 was in the works with a new game engine since the current engine is so old.  Going Rogue was dressing to take the current game as far as it could.

As an observation, all the servers indicated much higher traffic until this week so it appears the expansion had brought a lot of players either to the game, or back to the game.  I think the DC game and, if it ever gets done, the Marvel game will show if there is room for more than one superhero MMO.

Why do companies feel the need to release bullshit statements that are essentially lies.

You are optimizing the refocus (great phrase there) by laying people off, nice. How about bluntly saying "We are downsizing our team to make our resources fit in the budget based off of revnue." Everyone knows layoffs are a way to decrease spending so just say so.

It's like with APB where they made press releases about how they were pulling people off of their other projects to focus on the growth of APB blah blah blah. When really it was "Oh crap we're bankrupt, let's put one last ditch effort to increase APB's player base so we can have any hope of getting out of this hole."

Give me a company that will be straight forward and honest for a change "This is how many people we have working on the project, this is how many players we have, here is what we plan for the future" and they will get my money.

I saw no real speculation about CoH2 beyond the fact that NCSoft had picked up and reserved the rights to the name "City of Heroes 2" and any attendant abbreviations and subtitles.

That said, I'm honestly not surprised that there are a few layoffs, considering the extra manpower that was hired to complete Going Rogue.  What is a surprise is if there is any truth to BaBs being among those laid off.  Although considering he hasn't been present on the forums since late April (which is a little odd for him) I guess if it is true, he may have known it was coming for some time.

The expansion is done..less labor is needed.  Makes perfect sense to me.  This isn't something that doesn't happen with virtually every software release, game or not.  People are hired on for the development cycle, some of them are let go when that part of the overall product cycle is finished.

Originally posted by corrandk

The expansion is done..less labor is needed.  Makes perfect sense to me.  This isn't something that doesn't happen with virtually every software release, game or not.  People are hired on for the development cycle, some of them are let go when that part of the overall product cycle is finished.

Developers are retained if there's additional development planned for the future. For MMOs, when one expansion is released, the next one starts to go into development, so developers typically aren't let go. It only makes sense to fire developers after a release if there are no more major expansions planned, which means the game is near the end of it's life cycle.

Originally posted by LordDraekon

I bought a copy of "Going Rogue" from an ebay seller for about $15, played it for a couple of hours and haven't picked it up again. I've played every major update since release, but there's just not enough there to keep me engaged.

 Tried the trial but the effect was largely the same, I played from launch til right after COV and for me going rogue seemed to add a whole lot of new quests but the feeling I still got was the game hasn't really changed and that rather low well of fun is quickly going to run dry.  I logged in twice but haven't had an interest to play again since unfortunately.

Your going to cut staff, so the rest of the staff will work harder??

Expect more with less, oh well more of the same for mmo's lately.

Originally posted by adam_nox

Sadly rogue was not a game changer.  It refreshed the graphics and added some content, but it didn't address a lot of things that could keep the game growing instead of shrinking like pvp zones, base raids, and server populations (on some servers).

You are so full of something it is not even funny. First, the graphics refresh was Ultra-Mode. Yes, it was scheduled and developed with Going Rogue. It, however, was not part of Going Rogue.

Second, pvp-zones have been in the game since Wednesday, May 4, 2005. In over 5 years time the PvP-zones have never driven more than low single digit percentages of the player-base. Adding in more PvP-Zones would do nothing for the game. Since you obviously skipped MMO-History 101, look up Tabula Rasa

It was an NCSoft published game developed by Destination Games. After the Game launched the developers decided to do a 180 and turn a PvE focused game into a PvP focused game. The subscriber base flopped, Destination Games folded, and City of Heroes pulled NCSoft's collective rear end out of that fire.

Even looking beyond just NCSoft Citing PvP as something that brings players to games is a brain dead idea. Would you mind opening your eyes and telling me what happened to WarHammer Online? Sony Planetside? All Points Bullitin? Global Agenda? All of these multiplayer PvP-centric games failed in their original markets. The only reason Global Agenda survives as an independent game is that Hi-Rez studios had the brains to figure out that a PvP focus was not going to pay the bills.

Then there's your subject of Base Raids. Again, the player base hasn't been there to support any sort of PvP content to begin with. Implementing Base Raids would do nothing to bring back players that already left, and it's not going to do anything to drive new subscribers either.

Now whether or not you like it, or accept it, and obviously you don't, Going Rogue was a huge game changer that demonstrates what the current Paragon Studios staff can accomplish. It was such a game changer that even DC had the brains to figure out DCUO didn't have a prayer against Going Rogue in it's current state, leaning on SOE for the delay.

Basically Mr. Nox, you can take your trolling SCO style F.U.D. and take a hike. Nobody's buying the lies your selling.

Originally posted by Zerias

Originally posted by adam_nox

Sadly rogue was not a game changer.  It refreshed the graphics and added some content, but it didn't address a lot of things that could keep the game growing instead of shrinking like pvp zones, base raids, and server populations (on some servers).

You are so full of something it is not even funny. First, the graphics refresh was Ultra-Mode. Yes, it was scheduled and developed with Going Rogue. It, however, was not part of Going Rogue.

Second, pvp-zones have been in the game since Wednesday, May 4, 2005. In over 5 years time the PvP-zones have never driven more than low single digit percentages of the player-base. Adding in more PvP-Zones would do nothing for the game. Since you obviously skipped MMO-History 101, look up Tabula Rasa

It was an NCSoft published game developed by Destination Games. After the Game launched the developers decided to do a 180 and turn a PvE focused game into a PvP focused game. The subscriber base flopped, Destination Games folded, and City of Heroes pulled NCSoft's collective rear end out of that fire.

Even looking beyond just NCSoft Citing PvP as something that brings players to games is a brain dead idea. Would you mind opening your eyes and telling me what happened to WarHammer Online? Sony Planetside? All Points Bullitin? Global Agenda? All of these multiplayer PvP-centric games failed in their original markets. The only reason Global Agenda survives as an independent game is that Hi-Rez studios had the brains to figure out that a PvP focus was not going to pay the bills.

Then there's your subject of Base Raids. Again, the player base hasn't been there to support any sort of PvP content to begin with. Implementing Base Raids would do nothing to bring back players that already left, and it's not going to do anything to drive new subscribers either.

Now whether or not you like it, or accept it, and obviously you don't, Going Rogue was a huge game changer that demonstrates what the current Paragon Studios staff can accomplish. It was such a game changer that even DC had the brains to figure out DCUO didn't have a prayer against Going Rogue in it's current state, leaning on SOE for the delay.

Basically Mr. Nox, you can take your trolling SCO style F.U.D. and take a hike. Nobody's buying the lies your selling.

 Well said Zerias.Well said indeed.Fact overload.See pvpers like raiders belive the mmo world revolves around them.That no casual game can make it.Heard some casual game has 12 million subs now.Hmm.

I like pvp in coh actualy.But if they produced a whole expansion on pvp it would be a waste.Its rare you find more than 5 in any pvp zone as is.Realy hopen BaB is not layed off.
 

I'm shocked to see this leaked as news so quickly and I'm doubly shocked to see my name associated with it.  I don't know who leaked this, why, or how they knew but I'm very uncomfortable with the thought of it leading anyone to the conclussion that I was involved in making this public knowledge.

Originally posted by Caskio

Wait....in order to put a greater focus on CoH, they are reducing the team size?  Some one explain how that works to me.

Seems like the focus would remain the same, but content and fixes would come out slower.

It's called "doublespeak" and all large companies use this tactic that has been successful for politicians and world leaders for centuries. It's the same reason why the lemming-masses keep buying the same lies of politicians (on both sides of the political aisle) every 4 years.

But hey, whatever works...right?

Originally posted by CBruce

I'm shocked to see this leaked as news so quickly and I'm doubly shocked to see my name associated with it.  I don't know who leaked this, why, or how they knew but I'm very uncomfortable with the thought of it leading anyone to the conclussion that I was involved in making this public knowledge.

 

 Well your name is part of the article, but I don't think there's any suggestion that it was you that leaked it or that you had anything to do with it. Can i also surmise from your posting that NCSoft/Paragon either has very lax rules about posting on internet forums and/or boards about anything to do with NCSoft/Paragon or that you either don't care or no longer work there? Big jump I know.

It's true that GR will probably be the last major expansion for CoH and if paragon are working on something else then that ca only be a good thing, but I am surprised that if they are working on something else they've laid staff off rather than moving them to the new project. I can't and don't see CoH keeping paragon going ad infinitum so they need something to go with.

"CBruce" joined today.  Makes me doubt that handle actually belongs to BAB.

Originally posted by CBruce

I'm shocked to see this leaked as news so quickly and I'm doubly shocked to see my name associated with it.  I don't know who leaked this, why, or how they knew but I'm very uncomfortable with the thought of it leading anyone to the conclussion that I was involved in making this public knowledge.

 

Bruce, you know we heart you, sunshine. Just prod me if you want to chat.

- Jules (yeah, that one, formerly from SIRadio)

Nothing good comes from cutting staff. It means COH is hurting big time.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Nothing good comes from cutting staff. It means COH is hurting big time.

 

Isn't this their first round of layoffs? They've managed to last longer than most, considering how difficult it is to keep a business going right now, large or small.  My workplace managed until last month, it could be something as simple as that.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Nothing good comes from cutting staff. It means COH is hurting big time.

 

Most times it means there is more important work todo.

Originally posted by Caskio

Wait....in order to put a greater focus on CoH, they are reducing the team size?  Some one explain how that works to me.

 

You're assuming that they didn't have any other projects in the works...

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Nothing good comes from cutting staff. It means COH is hurting big time.

 

CoH's population EXPLODED with GR. And far from just returning players checking it out. The free month that came with the combo pack is up and people are staying. CoH isn't hurting...

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Nothing good comes from cutting staff. It means COH is hurting big time.

 

Ah yes, the inevitable outsider's view of the business world. Fortunately for the rest of us, you don't know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by corrandk

The expansion is done..less labor is needed.  Makes perfect sense to me.  This isn't something that doesn't happen with virtually every software release, game or not.  People are hired on for the development cycle, some of them are let go when that part of the overall product cycle is finished.

Developers are retained if there's additional development planned for the future. For MMOs, when one expansion is released, the next one starts to go into development, so developers typically aren't let go. It only makes sense to fire developers after a release if there are no more major expansions planned, which means the game is near the end of it's life cycle.

 

 

Sounds like you're thinking of boxed expansions. When City of Villains came out, the team shrank quite a bit just afterward - and down to their 15 person minimum. (Of course, Cryptic at the time was also looking at the marvel MMO and going on to other things.) 15 people moved with the IP to NCSoft to start Paragon Studios. Those 15 put out quite a few updates - COH doesn't get many boxed expansions, but does get several free issues a year with content updates of various sorts.

So your assumption there is incorrect. This so far looks like nothing more than post-release shrinkage, given past history. (Note they do have Issue 19 and Issue 20 - 20 supposedly big enough it's requiring a *signed* NDA, something they haven't done in a long time, already in beta testing and not due till next year.)

Zerias when talking about Tabula Rasa pvp, their did not give players the pvp their where asking for, their where asking for doing pvp as the 2 sides, insted their made human on human pvp, wich dont make sense in terms of the game.

Plantside has alot of ppl playing when it was new, enouge ppl must still be playing as it is still online.

Global Agenda,  is just an instence game, and had only a small team pvp, there was bigger pvp fights in BF1942, same why as crimecraft and guildwars, it is a multieplayer game with a mmo lobby system.

WAR made not have gotten the subs their wanted for it, but it havnt close, and it still got alot of ppl that normal dont pvp in to pvping, as the pvp in that game is the most easy, fun and casual I seen in any mmo.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by corrandk

The expansion is done..less labor is needed.  Makes perfect sense to me.  This isn't something that doesn't happen with virtually every software release, game or not.  People are hired on for the development cycle, some of them are let go when that part of the overall product cycle is finished.

Developers are retained if there's additional development planned for the future. For MMOs, when one expansion is released, the next one starts to go into development, so developers typically aren't let go. It only makes sense to fire developers after a release if there are no more major expansions planned, which means the game is near the end of it's life cycle.

 

Speculation Ceridith. It makes more financial sense to hire on temporary employees to push out a major expansion and then let them go until they or others are needed again. Layoffs are done for budget streamlining, cost cutting.... it doesn't necessarily mean anything bad for the CoH franchise or Paragon Studios. Either way, private sector employment / stability is tough!

Originally posted by jpnole

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by corrandk

The expansion is done..less labor is needed.  Makes perfect sense to me.  This isn't something that doesn't happen with virtually every software release, game or not.  People are hired on for the development cycle, some of them are let go when that part of the overall product cycle is finished.

Developers are retained if there's additional development planned for the future. For MMOs, when one expansion is released, the next one starts to go into development, so developers typically aren't let go. It only makes sense to fire developers after a release if there are no more major expansions planned, which means the game is near the end of it's life cycle.

 

Speculation Ceridith. It makes more financial sense to hire on temporary employees to push out a major expansion and then let them go until they or others are needed again. Layoffs are done for budget streamlining, cost cutting.... it doesn't necessarily mean anything bad for the CoH franchise or Paragon Studios. Either way, private sector employment / stability is tough!

The part i am not sure about your argument is that if Paragon hired temporary employees for the purpose of helping on GR, shouldn't Paragon have stayed as contract workers to let them go at the end of the development cycle, and if that is the case wouldn't be more an end of contract than a lay off, so I question why they are talking about lay off then. Besides, if I read well Back Alley Brawler is among of the rumored lay offs.  

Looks like Going Rogue didn't meet NcSoft's sales figures and now some people are getting the boot. I was thinking of going back to the game but now i have even less desire to return to it.  This is not good news at all.

Will make the meet and greet at the NY Comic Con interesting, eh?

Originally posted by TwwIX

Looks like Going Rogue didn't meet NcSoft's sales figures and now some people are getting the boot. I was thinking of going back to the game but now i have even less desire to return to it.  This is not good news at all.

It was priced way to high.  For what was offered asking 40$ is a joke.  WOW Cata is coming out in Dec and it's the same price and we getting  a hell of a lot more stuff.

Originally posted by Aguitha

Originally posted by TwwIX

Looks like Going Rogue didn't meet NcSoft's sales figures and now some people are getting the boot. I was thinking of going back to the game but now i have even less desire to return to it.  This is not good news at all.

It was priced way to high.  For what was offered asking 40$ is a joke.  WOW Cata is coming out in Dec and it's the same price and we getting  a hell of a lot more stuff.

 

$40 was only if you bought the "complete edition", which was the expansion plus basic account. Targetted at new players. Just the expansion was $30. Note, however, that the complete edition came with a free month of play even if you already had an account, so it was effectively cheaper than just the expansion ( $40-$15=$25 )...

Thats sad to hear about the layoffs...

I just hope this game doesnt suffer too badly because of it.

There was...is alot of stuff planned and slated to come out.....i just hope that those things dont get too badly effected.

As a number of people pointed out...there have been things being put out that just dont seam to have alot of content....little do they realize thats becasue some of it got pushed back becasue it didnt work the way it team wanted it too.

---

Originally posted by Zerias
look up Tabula Rasa
It was an NCSoft published game developed by Destination Games. After the Game launched the developers decided to do a 180 and turn a PvE focused game into a PvP focused game. The subscriber base flopped, Destination Games folded, and City of Heroes pulled NCSoft's collective rear end out of that fire.

---

CoH didnt "save" NCSoft when Tabula Rasa went under. Lineage 2 and Aion did.

In the financial quarter following Tabula Rasa's demise CoH accounted for about $5 million in sales. Lineage 2 and Aion were both around $35 million.

Ok, its great that you love CoH but dont make up lies to make it bigger than it really is.

As for the impact that Going Rogue has had on sales we will have to wait until November for that. But I can say that days before Going Rogue launched CoH accounted for 2% of NCSoft's total sales. Which is less than Guild Wars, a game that has no monthly fee and hasnt had a new release in 3 years.

Funny.  If you (figuratively) put WOW revenues in the denominator, and what you get in the numerator, and compare that with the same for CoX, you might find your statement is slightly miscalculated.

(I was referring to Aguitha)

CoH rocks.  Tons still play it.  Maybe people were fired but the reasoning here is all speculation.  So many haters online.

They always cut staff after a major expansion... it's perfectly normal. Unfortunatly I was expecting they'd start work on CoH2 but looks like that might not be in the makings right now.

     My opinion (yes, opinion) is that while CoH still retains a reasonable player base, given it's age, NCSoft has made the decision that the game has been taken as far as it will go.  The game will continue to be supported, but it's quite likely that Going Rogue will be the game's last major expansion.  It would appear that, to NCSoft, CoH has now become that old car that has served you well for years, and still has a few miles left on it, but it isn't worth putting a lot of money into anymore.

     CoH has had a nice run, and I'm sure that it will continue on for a few more years, but in my view, this announcement is evidence that the game has now taken it's first step on the long walk to MMO retirement.

Originally posted by Zerias

Originally posted by adam_nox

Sadly rogue was not a game changer.  It refreshed the graphics and added some content, but it didn't address a lot of things that could keep the game growing instead of shrinking like pvp zones, base raids, and server populations (on some servers).

You are so full of something it is not even funny. First, the graphics refresh was Ultra-Mode. Yes, it was scheduled and developed with Going Rogue. It, however, was not part of Going Rogue.

Second, pvp-zones have been in the game since Wednesday, May 4, 2005. In over 5 years time the PvP-zones have never driven more than low single digit percentages of the player-base. Adding in more PvP-Zones would do nothing for the game. Since you obviously skipped MMO-History 101, look up Tabula Rasa

It was an NCSoft published game developed by Destination Games. After the Game launched the developers decided to do a 180 and turn a PvE focused game into a PvP focused game. The subscriber base flopped, Destination Games folded, and City of Heroes pulled NCSoft's collective rear end out of that fire.

Even looking beyond just NCSoft Citing PvP as something that brings players to games is a brain dead idea. Would you mind opening your eyes and telling me what happened to WarHammer Online? Sony Planetside? All Points Bullitin? Global Agenda? All of these multiplayer PvP-centric games failed in their original markets. The only reason Global Agenda survives as an independent game is that Hi-Rez studios had the brains to figure out that a PvP focus was not going to pay the bills.

Then there's your subject of Base Raids. Again, the player base hasn't been there to support any sort of PvP content to begin with. Implementing Base Raids would do nothing to bring back players that already left, and it's not going to do anything to drive new subscribers either.

Now whether or not you like it, or accept it, and obviously you don't, Going Rogue was a huge game changer that demonstrates what the current Paragon Studios staff can accomplish. It was such a game changer that even DC had the brains to figure out DCUO didn't have a prayer against Going Rogue in it's current state, leaning on SOE for the delay.

Basically Mr. Nox, you can take your trolling SCO style F.U.D. and take a hike. Nobody's buying the lies your selling.

 

I wish those who are now unemployed that they find speedy re-employment. It's very hard in this day and age to find a job quickly, but can always hope for the best. I feel for them.

CoH was a game I liked for short periods, but never could really get my claws into. I think it's good to have a game like this on the market since it's pretty much a one-of-a-kind, being in its own city and all, the artwork, the combat abilities, character templating, etc. I hope it lasts for a good while yet, despite it never having been my cup of tea.

This is fishy news.

Besides, the layoffs could be temp.

Originally posted by jinxxed0

This is fishy news.

Besides, the layoffs could be temp.

There are a lot of people in this thread who don't understand when layoff is used (including the guy who tried to act like no one else understood the business world but him when clearly he was clueless).

If they were moving them to another product they would not use the word layoff, it would be transfer etc. because they're still hired by the company.

If it were temp employees then it is never a layoff when you let go of temps.

There is never truly a "laying these people off is temporary and we're going to hire them back soon". It doesn't work and it wouldn't be done if they were just going to hire them back. In non-MMO studios it was common practice to hire up a bunch  of people (mostly QA) shortly before a release and then let most of them go after the release but MMOs don't work that way since they are constantly expanding/updating and running.

If the leak is true it can essentially only mean that their revenues are lower then expected (or are expecting them to go down in the near future) and they need to cut down their work force to stay in good shape. That simple.

Well... I hope the game stays healthy. My whole family played during our 7 day trial and I am about to pick up the 40 dollar version of going rogue. We all loved it and had a blast on the trial! Shame to see anyone get laid off too, because I would much rather be hearing the exact opposite and keep those guys around for future updates.

Originally posted by Kravis

 

 

 

I only played a new toon to 12 for the 7 day trial, played for only few hours and got really bored.  The reactivation weekend is online and I did not delete the client (yet) and decided to load my old toons.  All I can say is, WHERE IS EVERYONE?  All of my toons are on Virtue, took a trip through Talos and was a bit concerned very few people were around.  Used to be piles of people in Wentworths and hanging around the Geen Line.  The server was red when I logged so I don't know what's going on, will check it Friday night and see what's what.

 

 

 This part i can answer.Virtue is the unofical rp server sooo alot of people in atlas,Pokect d as well as riki warzone.more  top end toons in pi as well.An id guess half would be in pretoria on new toons.

Gota rember to when zones over fill it spawns another zone their was 2 pis yesterday an for while 2 atlas parks as well.Content in coh is spread out an not always hand held lead to.In pretoria i found a few contacts i could work for just by talking to them not being introduced.An no you dont have to leave pretoria at 20 just you can at 20 on.Some realy neat stories their.

Has anybody seen anything about this other than what came from here?  The other articles out there all point back to MMORPG.com as the source...

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Has anybody seen anything about this other than what came from here?  The other articles out there all point back to MMORPG.com as the source...

theOcho, one of the community team from the official boards:

To the statement released:

"The PR statement from the article is correct.

In an effort to put a greater focus on the City of Heroes franchise, Paragon Studios is shifting resources within the studio. In order to optimize the refocus, there has been a reduction in force that has impacted a small amount of people. Paragon Studios is an integral part of the NCsoft West family and will continue to prosper, delivering the world’s most popular superpowered hero MMO game, City of Heroes, to fans around the world."

In reguards to BaB leaving:

"It’s our policy not to comment on personnel issues but rest assured that we remain as dedicated as ever to the future of the City of Heroes franchise."

"Paragon Studios is still profoundly committed to City of Heroes and is proud of both the game we have created and the community who plays it. We're here for the long run, no need to be scurred."

Sad to hear that the game is losing employees.  I guess NCSoft thought it was time to put the game on life-support after the failure of Going Rogue.  I used to play the game before the Mission Architect disaster.  I made a lot of friends.  It had a great community.  Sad, really.

Doom  troll thead ! Most of the people who've posted cant have played recently or ever.  This game has more people than ever, most of the servers are busier than i've seen in years. Freedom and virtue are still laggy there's so many people on. The next issue after going rogue is introducing more end content .  This is still the only mmo i've played where you can find teams easily from start to level cap and its only gotten better.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Nothing good comes from cutting staff. It means COH is hurting big time.

 

You obviously haven't been playing the game for the past few months if you think its hurting in the least bit. Nearly every server is yellow and 2 - 3 are always red or full. It hasn't been close to  that for me since I first started playing 36 months ago. The population has shot up with going rogues release and it's holding onto its customers since.

Originally posted by cujo603

Doom  troll thead ! Most of the people who've posted cant have played recently or ever.  This game has more people than ever, most of the servers are busier than i've seen in years. Freedom and virtue are still laggy there's so many people on. The next issue after going rogue is introducing more end content .  This is still the only mmo i've played where you can find teams easily from start to level cap and its only gotten better.

I just recently tried the seven day trial that MMORPG offered for people to try out Going Rogue.  I saw a few people, but not a lot.  It seems about the same as when I left the game a few years ago.  Going Rogue didn't seem to bring very many, if any people back.  If the servers are as crowded as people claim, I don't think it would have been necessary to lay people off.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by corrandk

The expansion is done..less labor is needed.  Makes perfect sense to me.  This isn't something that doesn't happen with virtually every software release, game or not.  People are hired on for the development cycle, some of them are let go when that part of the overall product cycle is finished.

Developers are retained if there's additional development planned for the future. For MMOs, when one expansion is released, the next one starts to go into development, so developers typically aren't let go. It only makes sense to fire developers after a release if there are no more major expansions planned, which means the game is near the end of it's life cycle.

 

 I would like to point out that CoH/CoV has not tried to stack one expansion onto another like many companies, EQ being a prime example, where one of the reasons I quite playing was their schedule of 2 to 4 expansions every year.  I got tired of plopping down a couple hundred dollars a year to keep up.  CoH/COV geared up to produce Going Rogue.  I would not expect another expansion for several years.  Why keep people on for a project that is not even much on the drawing board yet, much less in need of developement.  I think they are probably doing brainstorming about a possible next expansion, but I doubt it will be out of the "what might we do" stage for some time.  That sort of thing can be done inhouse with the downsized staff, and when the time comes to actually start programming and writing, then they can hire some more manpower to work on things.  In the current economic situation in the REAL WORLD, that makes a lot of sense.  Keeping people on staff  because you might need them sometime down the road doesn't...

To people who didn't see very many people when they tried it out recently....

When did you play?  Middle of the night?  While at work?  This is not my experience.  In the going rogue zones multiple teams are constantly in play, people are calling to fill teams or be on teams constantly in all channels.  In the busiest servers you can't swing a cat without hitting new people.  In the sparcer servers, it's still busy, and getting a team is hardly difficult... I get blind invites all the time, and usually accept them.

I sometimes think you people would complain population was falling off if there were a 200 person waiting list to get on all the servers... I'm not seeing the problem you are, and I've been playing over 5 years.  Maybe you've all been on WoW or something, where I assume, based on the subscription numbers Ive seen, that you can't hardly move without running over somebody... I like it a bit more reasonable, myself.

(Not as dead as EQ is these days, now there is a failing game if there ever was one...)

The servers are yellow and red because they could never handle even the slightest influx of new or returning people. Every time there's a free weekend or a new update gets released, the servers go to shit. It's been like this for years and continues to be like this even after their server "upgrade".

This is just another reason why i am reluctant to come back. And, yes. I came back  temporarly over the summer.

Originally posted by CBruce

I'm shocked to see this leaked as news so quickly and I'm doubly shocked to see my name associated with it.  I don't know who leaked this, why, or how they knew but I'm very uncomfortable with the thought of it leading anyone to the conclussion that I was involved in making this public knowledge.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by corrandk

The expansion is done..less labor is needed.  Makes perfect sense to me.  This isn't something that doesn't happen with virtually every software release, game or not.  People are hired on for the development cycle, some of them are let go when that part of the overall product cycle is finished.

Developers are retained if there's additional development planned for the future. For MMOs, when one expansion is released, the next one starts to go into development, so developers typically aren't let go. It only makes sense to fire developers after a release if there are no more major expansions planned, which means the game is near the end of it's life cycle.

Given NCsofts past record of axing four western games, its possible they plan to add a 5th closed game to their collection. Only time will tell how this works out.

lol...NCS-West is running dry on money. It's just like the body after a traumatic injury...the brain is desperately trying to keep core functions running by reducing blood flow to the extrimities.

In NCSW's case, money is blood and they're running out of it and so they're cutting off the flow of said cash to limited profitable franchises.

On a side note:

For those of you saying "well why keep devs if the game is end-of-life" or "expansions are as frequent {directed at Beggly}" You are absolutely right, the company doesn't...they move them to other projects (see Blizzard). The fact that NCSW laid them off means either:

a) NCSW doesn't have anymore projects planned for the near future

b) NCSW is strapped for cash

Furthermore, to those saying "you're all naysayers" yes...because a company wishing to NOT commit Corporate Suicide would willing come forward and say "yeah, we're broke and cancelling less profitable franchises". They'll run CoH/V into the ground just like Tabula Rasa and Exteel** before finally saying they're closing the servers.

**I know so many who were pissed to learn they'd just spent a lot of money (a few spent more than $100 USD -THAT MONTH-) buying the "exteel" coins for the item shop only to learn the following month the servers would be closing.

Originally posted by freach

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Nothing good comes from cutting staff. It means COH is hurting big time.

 

Most times it means there is more important work todo.

 

Just like there were more important games to play back around the time Jack Emmert thumbed his nose at the game and fans and moved on to ruin other games.   

CoX had so much potential ... and I admire many of the features they pioneered, however the inattentiveness to the end game and the players who waited patiently for ... nothing ... ,  Enhancement Diversification, and the changes to the Hamidon encounter were all catalysts for a massive exodus away from the game, IMO.  

It was never the same, try as I might - even with free activation weekends.   There just wasn't enough incentive in content and innovation given to me as a veteran player to warrant a sustained investment of the game. 

Oh, and I was one of a select few fans who begged for the means to switch sides after CoV was released.   My suggestions for what I called "Crossover" were mocked, panned in typical derision by the fanbois and developers alike.   There was just no way to do it without keeping archetypes balanced, I was told.   Looks lke they found a way ... but ... oh by the way ... nobody plays anymore, you tools!

I doubt they are even close to closing the game.

However, not putting any more cash into expansions, and possibly consolidating servers, in the next year, that i could see.

I do not think their latest expansion did very well, nor drew back many old players.

Have to see how DC does when they come out.  That could affect what happens next year.

COH V  has the same problems many older games do. It is hard to attract many new player to be long term, and even harder to get people that used to play to come back for more than a few weeks.

Expansion are mostly aimed at  your current players, and your old players that had bought and played before,   and hard to get them to keep subbing if they had not liked something about game before.

All that said, think it is still a money maker, if they drop some devs and just go to trying to keep what they have.

Originally posted by DarLorkar

I doubt they are even close to closing the game.

I don't think so either as long as they are making cash on it.

But they might do as SOE with VG and put a skeleton crew on it to just keep it running.

The panel stated they had around 750k characters logging in after GR... not WoW numbers, but not bad.

This is just one giant back and forth between posters and trolls who clicked here from the main page and replied to the title without reading the thread.

"Lol nobody plays this game."

"Yes they do, the servers are in yellow capacity"

"They're laying off? I guess the game is dying."

"It's not dying, I just said the servers are in yellow."

"Lol, guess the next step is shutting down because no one plays"

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by DarLorkar

I doubt they are even close to closing the game.

I don't think so either as long as they are making cash on it.

But they might do as SOE with VG and put a skeleton crew on it to just keep it running.

Possible, but thats not been the approach that NCsoft has taken in the past.  Aion(west) I can see them doing that, but another western game?...

Wow, put out an awesome new expansion and then get fired.  That's gratatude for ya.

Originally posted by boincman

Wow, put out an awesome new expansion and then get fired.  That's gratatude for ya.

NCsofts attitude seems to be "what have you done for me lately?"(as in this quarter). Its all about making the quarterly report look  sweet.  While thats pretty much a standard suit perspective, NCsoft seems to take it to extremes in terms of their western games.  Time will tell the tale.

Next will come the server merges in an attempt to keep the game afloat and then finally the game will be closed.

Originally posted by Caskio

Wait....in order to put a greater focus on CoH, they are reducing the team size?  Some one explain how that works to me.

Seems like the focus would remain the same, but content and fixes would come out slower.

indeed

There are many die hard fans of this game, and even more people that play for a few months, leave and come back. I am of the later but I know of many hard core fans that have Veteran rewards up to the current month of playing.

In this game, your subscribed time earns you Vet rewards ( not how old your account is ). That is alot of incomming consistant money that NCsoft would be fools to get rid of. I did see a spike in server activity for a few months, but it is settling back down a bit with 3 servers remaining in the red ( red meaning heavy load on server ) for prime times.

At any rate, it is always sad to see people loose thier jobs, but I feel the game is going to be just fine if not less a few of the lower populated servers.