I can't wait for this game!!!

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

Best quote in the interview

Colin: Definitely shows like PAX are the greatest moment for me. We have spent three years building this game and the last few months we put out a ton of marketing material. We said we were going to do a lot and everything we set out to do we put into the game. We did not want to talk about them until they were in the game and they worked. There is a lot of danger to make a lot of bold claims and you don’t follow through on them. We don’t want to do that. We said a lot of stuff and we had a lot of people say we wouldn’t be able to do it. Or something like: yeah, that sounds awesome, but not one is ever going to build that.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

TBF we've recently had a massive dump of information, with huge amounts of gameplay footage etc. We already know a huge amount of information regarding this game compared to most other mmo's in development, if ever their was a time in which it was logical to have a lull of information it would be now.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

They are repeating a lot because there are some people still out there that don't believe them. They want to make it clear to everyone what they are doing.

Super excited! Obviously... sounds like the best MMO in a long time.

Thanks for the article! Keep us updated on GW2 ^^

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

 

That's clearly false.... 4 more professions, crafting, dungeons, WvW pvp, Structured pvp, guilds and a bunch of other things I can't currently remember. We've probably seen a bit less than half of the announced features which is ignoring the things they still haven't told us that exist in game.

Now we need 4 more classes, PvP in-depth info, information on the mentioned Keeps, what all there will be to do at the end game, surprises still laying in wait and most of all... a damn release date.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

 

I wouldn't say that just yet...

Decent interview with good answers, but MMORPG.COM needs to listen more closely to ArenaNet is saying because they clearly don't get with with questions like this:

You talked a lot about camaraderie among players. Many MMOs have lost this on a wide level because of guild groups and smaller factions. How do you see players joining up on a large scale in Guild Wars 2?

MMOs haven't lost  this broad camaraderie, MMOs never had it outside of PvP content.   Previous MMOs starting from UO were based on pitting players in competetion with each other for resources in PvE (XP, gold etc).   That was because it slowed down everyone and insured those monthly subscriptions kept coming in. 

DOAC was able to achieve a broader sense of server camaraderie as far as PvP went which is why that game is still brought up as an example but no game has done that the PvE side

ArenaNet is not trying to re-capture something that MMOs have lost.   They are creating something that has never existed in the genre, a truly cooperative MMO where you look forward to seeing another player, rather than view them as someone who is going to steal your XP/kill. 

Don't try repainting the past.  Recapturing old-school MMORPGs in not the goal of GW2 because those "glory days" never existed, they never had the kind of gameplay that GW2 is offering.   The goal seems to be to take the fundemantal traditions of those previous MMOs and bury them.      ArenaNet has had to fly in the face of the inherently flawed mechanics of  old-school MMORPGs (from the class trinity  to the leveling curve to server cooperation to all the rest) to do what they are doing.   And if they pull it off, this genre will finally see some long-overdue evolution.

Im really glad they compared their W v W v W to an evolution of DAoC PvP ...makes me even more excited:)))

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

Haters gonna hate.

We haven't seen like 70% of the game major aspects yet. We have seen 0,001% of the content yet.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

Obvious troll is obvious

I think Dynamic Events is the thing that will do that. That is the glue in the bond that brings the players together. I think that will give you recognition when you start to build that sense of community. The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server. We think we will have those bonds because your server is matched up against two other servers. So it is just that much more important that you become friends and you bond with the players on your server. So the friends you make through PvE and Dynamic Events, those friends will carry over into World vs. World PvP. You may get out of World vs. World PvP and go back to early zones to do events with new people and help encourage them to join you in the fight for your server to take part in battles and beat the other two. We expect large strong communities on each server and I think PvP will end up affecting PvE because people will work together.

------Zomg goodness.  DAoC FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Xondar123

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

Oh, great. Then you might answer a few questions to me:

How will crafting work?

Will you actually get armor dropping or will they be crafted so they actually fit you like in the first game (I do know you can upgrade the armor).

How will Norns work, can they shapeshift at will and what are their froms?

Which animals will be pets? Minipets?

Which are the all the 8 classes, I only know 4?

Either you are working on ANET yourself or that was some weird sarcasm becuse there are a lot of unknowns yet. The reason they havn't said so much news is the fact that they revealed loads at Gamescon a few weeks ago and they only talks about stuff that already works now.

Crafting and PvP are the 2 big subjects which we heard very little about yet. But I think many people forget that it was only a few weeks ago we got to see the game and were shown a lot of this content.

Just relax, they will release more things when they work as they should, besides, it would be stupid to hype up the game so long before launch and reveal nothing new after that.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

Not really, it's the first time they have used this line "If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that" damn, if you played DAOC then this line should have you jumping up and down in your seat.,

All we need now is a Darkness Falls.

http://camelot.allakhazam.com/zones.html?czone=62

I really can't wait for this one, Three servers pitted against each other is just like three factions in DAOC. This is where WAR went wrong but ArenaNet have obviously seen this.

Hell YEAH! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkl_fAjmLmA

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

What's wrong, SWTOR not quite cutting it these days, lol.

I bet you love this line "yeah we have that but we can't talk about it right now" lol poor you.

I love watching this game grow and grow, and the hype keep getting bigger and bigger.  I've seen more and more people talking about it in other games, on websites, blogs etc. This game is looking like it's going to take the mmo world by storm! And judging from the fact that every game is always a little less then the hype, this still should be a great game! I've never seen a game get hype ratings on mmorpg.com like GW2 has already managed, and the hype meter keeps going up.

Thank you Anet for being bold enough to attempt things that are beyond the contemporary  mmo and proving to the games industry that the players are ready for some real change.  I can't say that every new idea that you impliment will be the best idea, but staying the same as every other mmo would have been the worst idea.

Every game that I play until GW2 release is just something to tide me over, kinda like breadsticks before a meal.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

MMOs haven't lost  this broad camaraderie, MMOs never had it outside of PvP content.   Previous MMOs starting from UO were based on pitting players in competetion with each other for resources in PvE (XP, gold etc).  

 

Well Said. We don't really know what the broader implications for this will be yet. This could change things to such a degree to almost be considered a new genre.  Though I suspect when most people actually get used to it this way, they will ask "Why wasn't it always this way?".  

"If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that."

I can't wait.

emo game

*rubs his eyes*

Server vs. Server combat??

/swoon

Also waiting for this game, everytime i read an article or interview about it, or even watch a video. it feels liek the game is getting further away. i want it now. I was one of the few waiting for SWTOR, but this game has completly lured me in. This is going to be my next game.

Originally posted by Hyp47

emo game

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the Organic nature of this Interview... but this one sentence struck me as TWO possible mis-Edits:

or seeing the Necromancer Death Shard for the first time and watching them go WoW!

I have a hard time believing Jeff actually #1>  Said "Shard" when everyone knows it's "Shroud", and #2>  Replaced the common Exlaimatory word "Wow!" with the Acronym for World-of-Warcraft

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Decent interview with good answers, but MMORPG.COM needs to listen more closely to ArenaNet is saying because they clearly don't get with with questions like this:

You talked a lot about camaraderie among players. Many MMOs have lost this on a wide level because of guild groups and smaller factions. How do you see players joining up on a large scale in Guild Wars 2?

MMOs haven't lost  this broad camaraderie, MMOs never had it outside of PvP content.   Previous MMOs starting from UO were based on pitting players in competetion with each other for resources in PvE (XP, gold etc).   That was because it slowed down everyone and insured those monthly subscriptions kept coming in. 

DOAC was able to achieve a broader sense of server camaraderie as far as PvP went which is why that game is still brought up as an example but no game has done that the PvE side

ArenaNet is not trying to re-capture something that MMOs have lost.   They are creating something that has never existed in the genre, a truly cooperative MMO where you look forward to seeing another player, rather than view them as someone who is going to steal your XP/kill. 

Don't try repainting the past.  Recapturing old-school MMORPGs in not the goal of GW2 because those "glory days" never existed, they never had the kind of gameplay that GW2 is offering.   The goal seems to be to take the fundemantal traditions of those previous MMOs and bury them.      ArenaNet has had to fly in the face of the inherently flawed mechanics of  old-school MMORPGs (from the class trinity  to the leveling curve to server cooperation to all the rest) to do what they are doing.   And if they pull it off, this genre will finally see some long-overdue evolution.

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

Originally posted by Dookz

Best quote in the interview

Colin: Definitely shows like PAX are the greatest moment for me. We have spent three years building this game and the last few months we put out a ton of marketing material. We said we were going to do a lot and everything we set out to do we put into the game. We did not want to talk about them until they were in the game and they worked. There is a lot of danger to make a lot of bold claims and you don’t follow through on them. We don’t want to do that. We said a lot of stuff and we had a lot of people say we wouldn’t be able to do it. Or something like: yeah, that sounds awesome, but not one is ever going to build that.

DEv.s that understand what daoc was... cannot be happening. Not that im saying they are attempting to be daoc. But without a doubt they are at least trying to use more than daoc ui in the concept for their game design. PS. its the community via pve efforts to carry onto the pvp efforts and then go back and help pve to help recruit for pvp. This is one major factor in daoc community  and pvp. (No to forget to mention the 3 way pvp and server/ realm pride.)

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played.

Of hundreds of people?  DAOC if you were a hib most hibs you fight and die for. You didn't need to even know them other than if they were elf, lurikeen, firblog, etc. Thats the comradery daoc had. Most pve in the game were group efforts as it almost always relested in better exp (unless people were just fighting yellows [even daoc had solo time when you wanted to fight at your own pace]).

Originally posted by ropenice

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Decent interview with good answers, but MMORPG.COM needs to listen more closely to ArenaNet is saying because they clearly don't get with with questions like this:

You talked a lot about camaraderie among players. Many MMOs have lost this on a wide level because of guild groups and smaller factions. How do you see players joining up on a large scale in Guild Wars 2?

MMOs haven't lost  this broad camaraderie, MMOs never had it outside of PvP content.   Previous MMOs starting from UO were based on pitting players in competetion with each other for resources in PvE (XP, gold etc).   That was because it slowed down everyone and insured those monthly subscriptions kept coming in. 

DOAC was able to achieve a broader sense of server camaraderie as far as PvP went which is why that game is still brought up as an example but no game has done that the PvE side

ArenaNet is not trying to re-capture something that MMOs have lost.   They are creating something that has never existed in the genre, a truly cooperative MMO where you look forward to seeing another player, rather than view them as someone who is going to steal your XP/kill. 

Don't try repainting the past.  Recapturing old-school MMORPGs in not the goal of GW2 because those "glory days" never existed, they never had the kind of gameplay that GW2 is offering.   The goal seems to be to take the fundemantal traditions of those previous MMOs and bury them.      ArenaNet has had to fly in the face of the inherently flawed mechanics of  old-school MMORPGs (from the class trinity  to the leveling curve to server cooperation to all the rest) to do what they are doing.   And if they pull it off, this genre will finally see some long-overdue evolution.

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

 

Great post! +1

Originally posted by remyburke

*rubs his eyes*

Server vs. Server combat??

/swoon

 

Which most likely means limited instanced battlegrounds. Not my cup of tea, but still in terms of orginality and sense of fun GW2 looks much better then any other incoming MMO title.

Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate -- 

Originally posted by Sukiyaki
cant wait for all the wow kids to cry when they experience a real mmorpg again instead of their shallow candygrinder and leave halfempty server back again, then they get all smartass and tell you how that fact they left, proves the games fails and their left spot proves their point why it was the better choice to leave. Btw WoWtards... Did anyone allready see Zorndorfs sockpuppets slandering about GW2 allready? I only saw one until today. Maybe he spends time pretending to be a TERA player now and writing bad reviews about another competing game he never played.

Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --   

You shall love wow and it shall become your world and when the darkness comes you shall feel the cataclism and it shall make you weep and the boy with the stick shall be sick and all shall play it.

Ok not really, but hehe.

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by remyburke

*rubs his eyes*

Server vs. Server combat??

/swoon

 

Which most likely means limited instanced battlegrounds. Not my cup of tea, but still in terms of orginality and sense of fun GW2 looks much better then any other incoming MMO title.

They already said its open and unequal in number of players fightign other players. If its truly open and uneven sides then it will be an independant zone but not instanced.

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by remyburke

*rubs his eyes*

Server vs. Server combat??

/swoon

 

Which most likely means limited instanced battlegrounds. Not my cup of tea, but still in terms of orginality and sense of fun GW2 looks much better then any other incoming MMO title.

Colin: "The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that."

It looks like the SvSvS aspect will be open world pvp orientated. Very, very promising.

Originally posted by vesuvias

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

MMOs haven't lost  this broad camaraderie, MMOs never had it outside of PvP content.   Previous MMOs starting from UO were based on pitting players in competetion with each other for resources in PvE (XP, gold etc).  

 

Well Said. We don't really know what the broader implications for this will be yet. This could change things to such a degree to almost be considered a new genre.  Though I suspect when most people actually get used to it this way, they will ask "Why wasn't it always this way?".  

Heh, I think that last sentence is very true.   It's like the zipper, it seems so obvious now but it took a while to get invented.  Truly good ideas are often like that.

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

I agree that Dynamic Events encourage player interaction without forcing it but your example of the EQ-style groups and guilds is exactly what GW2 is trying to avoid.   From  the article:

I think if you look at MMOs the really frustrating thing is that I am playing this game online with thousands of people and I don’t interact with hardly any of them. Maybe with the people on my friends list or in my guild and that’s it.  In old school MMOs you didn’t want other players around you because they were kill stealing from you or they would get in the way of the stuff I was trying to do. That can drive a player nuts.

GW2 is trying to make a game where you're not limited to only wanting to interact with the few dozen (or less) people in your guild, but everyone on the server.     This is a completely different level than anything that could be attained in EQ or any other previous MMO, if ArenaNet can pull it off.

Old-school guild players always accuse casual gameplay of letting people play a solo game when it's supposed to be a MASSIVELY Multiplayer game.   It's time to throw that tired old argument back into their faces.  What's so MASSIVE about only wanting to interact with your guildmates when they only make up a tiny fraction of the server population?

GW2 seems to be aiming to create a server-wide community that is based not only on just those players who want to be nice but actual game mechanics that support real player cooperation.

I was originally pointing out how the interview implied that this was something old-school MMOs had lost when in fact they never had something on this level simply because of their instrinc game mechancs.    Heck, the orignal interview question seems to say that guild groups are responsible for the loss of the very camaraderie you talk about.    I would agree with you that what camaraderie (in its limited fashion)  that there has been in previous MMOs was the result of EQ-style guilds.

But ArenaNet has decided that they can make a game that can do far better than that. 

This MMO looks so yummy.

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by remyburke

*rubs his eyes*

Server vs. Server combat??

/swoon

 

Which most likely means limited instanced battlegrounds. Not my cup of tea, but still in terms of orginality and sense of fun GW2 looks much better then any other incoming MMO title.

 

Not instanced

Its a separated place of the game, persistent.

Which you can raid villages to get resources for your world, you can ambushes enemy caravans going to a fortress taking material to repair broken walls. (they actually said all of this) etc...

Not small groups, your entire world will be fighting there, it has nothing to do with battlegrounds.

This is a bit off topic, but the person who typed out this conversation needs to get a god damn grammer lesson.  I can't understand what these people said in the interview because he doesn't use things as simple as commas in the correct places.  It's really awkward to read lol.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate -- 

Originally posted by Sukiyaki
cant wait for all the wow kids to cry when they experience a real mmorpg again instead of their shallow candygrinder and leave halfempty server back again, then they get all smartass and tell you how that fact they left, proves the games fails and their left spot proves their point why it was the better choice to leave. Btw WoWtards... Did anyone allready see Zorndorfs sockpuppets slandering about GW2 allready? I only saw one until today. Maybe he spends time pretending to be a TERA player now and writing bad reviews about another competing game he never played.

Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --  Wow hate --   

You shall love wow and it shall become your world and when the darkness comes you shall feel the cataclism and it shall make you weep and the boy with the stick shall be sick and all shall play it.

 

Ok not really, but hehe.

 

 ^^this kid is 12^^

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

There are serious problems with forced grouping to build trust and camaraderie in the current MMO environment, now that they have gone mainstream and there are so many more genes in the pool...

Here are the problems that I see:

1) Many players(won't say most, cause I haven't met most... but most of the ones I have met) are mediocre at best. Back when I used to play WoW I used to take guildies into wailing caverns to teach them how to pull, cause the concept of breaking LOS or of staying at max distance to avoid adds seemed completely foreign to them...

2)Players who don't know... and don't want to know. They are doing something incorrectly(pulling a leroy vs. pulling at a distance, for example), or they are missing something about game mechanics, etc... and they do not want to hear it from anyone. They will even start raging because they perceive you as trying to "tell them how to play their character".

3) Players are self-centered. They will not be team players unless someone forces them to be. IMO this was the downfall of warhammer in NA. Players in europe were hitting the cities and gearing up before players in NA even got to the fortresses. I played on both sides on 4 different servers to max level, and I had RL friends who played on a few more... and the story was always the same. You get a group out in PvP, and no one would listen to the raid leader... Everyone was too busy doing their own thing. Just keeping people together was almost impossible, unless you had a zerg going. This was even more evident in the battlegrounds... "Man, did you see my damage numbers?" "Ummm, we lost..." "Yeah, but did you see my damage numbers?". We had the same thing in WoW... I lost track of how many times we lost our healers to "the bomb" in MC and stuff like that cause people wouldn't listen.

4) Players are picky. They get it into their minds that a group can only be effective if you have classes A, B, E, and G. So if you show up and there is one spot left and you aren't the class they are missing... too bad.

GW2, from everything I have been able to read about it, is incredible. I read their manifesto and watched their videos, and so far I agree with them 100%. They've taken mechanical steps to eliminate number 4, and they are trying to use gameplay to bring people together and try and establish community. If anyone can do it, it will be them... That being said, there is only so much they can do to overcome human nature.

I played DAOC from beta through to beta 3 of ToA, and while people's nostalgia for what we had in DAOC is real... and what we had in DAOC WAS real... People don't understand why and how we had it. The reason it was there wasn't so much because of what they were or what they built... It was because of WHO we were... When DAOC was out, 100k subscribers was a huge number, and there were only a handfull of MMOs, most of them with less than that. It was a much smaller community than the current environment. There was more of a barrier to entry on those games, with their interfaces, lack of tutorials, etc... And the people who actually made it into the game and stuck with the game mostly knew what they were doing. While making games slicker, more user friendly, and more appealing are always good things... I think that removing the barrier to entry on these games and bringing them wholly mainstream has harmed the player's ability to form communities and to find functional teams.

Originally posted by Razzmatazzz

Originally posted by Hyp47

emo game

 

Look at your comment, now back to mine. Now back? at your comment now back to mine.? Sadly it isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting? legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through comments, writing the? comment your comment could look like. What did you post? Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again the? reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible with legit comments. I'm on a chair.

 

you sir win at life. best comment ive ever seen

Originally posted by chopstix906

 ^^this kid is 12^^

Wow hater taste my zvei.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

 

HAHAHA!!!  Actually, their special power is to really annoy others with what they think they know...(0.001dps) HAHAHAHA!!!!

And the hype climbs further...

Looks like GW2 is really pushing for something new here! Even if it doesn't succeed (which it probably will), it'll put a lot more ideas on the platter.

Nice interview, even if we knew most of this already. A couple of mistakes made me chuckle though:

"The other thing and I am seeing this a lot today, is people who are playing the game for the first time today and seeing them come to the earth elemental or see the dragon lands for the first time or seeing the Necromancer Death Shard for the first time and watching them go WoW"

Pretty sure it's 'Death Shroud', and WoW is an acronym for World of Warcraft... I believe you wanted to say wow? ;P

I want them to show the other 4 player classes. They'll probably trickle them out, one by one. :[

Originally posted by Razzmatazzz

Originally posted by Hyp47

emo game

 

Look at your comment, now back to mine. Now back? at your comment now back to mine.? Sadly it isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting? legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through comments, writing the? comment your comment could look like. What did you post? Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again the? reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible with legit comments. I'm on a chair.

 

I actually laughed out loud. Good job.

Every time they release a little more information, it just seems to build my hype for this game.  They are doing SO many things right.  Now, we still dont know what all they're gonna do, so there's lots of room for Wrong, but so far this is heading in a very favorable direction.

I'd rather them not release any info so there is still content to "wow" us. The marketing department hopefully knows what the heck they're doing. I guess we'll see.

Only problem with the PvP part is how they would explain it through the storyline. It seems to be lumped on and doesn't have much context with the PvE game. Sounds more like a giant fragfest than anything meaningful.

Don't get me wrong though, i am totally pumped for this game, just the PvP side doesn't do anything for me since it doesn't tie in with the rest of the game.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

I agree that Dynamic Events encourage player interaction without forcing it but your example of the EQ-style groups and guilds is exactly what GW2 is trying to avoid.   From  the article:

I think if you look at MMOs the really frustrating thing is that I am playing this game online with thousands of people and I don’t interact with hardly any of them. Maybe with the people on my friends list or in my guild and that’s it.  In old school MMOs you didn’t want other players around you because they were kill stealing from you or they would get in the way of the stuff I was trying to do. That can drive a player nuts.

GW2 is trying to make a game where you're not limited to only wanting to interact with the few dozen (or less) people in your guild, but everyone on the server.     This is a completely different level than anything that could be attained in EQ or any other previous MMO, if ArenaNet can pull it off.

Old-school guild players always accuse casual gameplay of letting people play a solo game when it's supposed to be a MASSIVELY Multiplayer game.   It's time to throw that tired old argument back into their faces.  What's so MASSIVE about only wanting to interact with your guildmates when they only make up a tiny fraction of the server population?

GW2 seems to be aiming to create a server-wide community that is based not only on just those players who want to be nice but actual game mechanics that support real player cooperation.

I was originally pointing out how the interview implied that this was something old-school MMOs had lost when in fact they never had something on this level simply because of their instrinc game mechancs.    Heck, the orignal interview question seems to say that guild groups are responsible for the loss of the very camaraderie you talk about.    I would agree with you that what camaraderie (in its limited fashion)  that there has been in previous MMOs was the result of EQ-style guilds.

But ArenaNet has decided that they can make a game that can do far better than that. 

 

 I supose it's possible that people had a different experince than i did but i never only socialized within my guild and friends list, in the early years of EQ. The thing that made the community strong wasn't only forced grouping but time sinks and ease of play. You had so much downtime in EQ in the early years and even if you were killing something , combat consisted of hitting auto attack or casting 1-2 spells then sitting for 10min. You used all this extra time to socialize. Sometimes with your guild or a friend but sometimes it was zonewide conversations or just someone who was hunting near you. You actually had time to really get to know people.

 This was all in the very beginning though after the first couple years things started to change. Especially when SoE took over. The game got easier, people got greedy, and then it started to lose some of that close community. So if you didn't start playing til the game was 3-4 yrs old , you never really got to experience that close knit community some of us talk about.

GW2 like everything else these days is a button mashing game. They even took it one step further , now you have to manually dodge as well as hit skill buttons. So forget about having any type of conversation while fighting unless it is on some type of voicechat. Which is a whole nother nightmare in itself. It's never been a great tool for community interaction and even works against it in some ways.

I do like that GW2 is trying to get the community together, but putting 100 people in the same place doesn't mean they are going to socialize and become a close community. It may give you more of a community feel being around many other players. In reality though everyone is still in there own little social circle. Having 100 people in the same area can also lead to a lot of fighting and bickering. There are certain types of gamers who just dont get along with each other. PvPer's dont like PvEer's , hardcore players dont like casual players , and of course everyone hates the WoW kids. There are exceptions of course but i think you get what i am trying to say.

It's a really ugly thing to think about , and i'd like nothing more than to be wrong and have them prove me wrong. I think you'd have a better chance of getting Osama bin Laden to sing the Star Spangled Banner though. =/

Originally posted by Senjinn

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

I agree that Dynamic Events encourage player interaction without forcing it but your example of the EQ-style groups and guilds is exactly what GW2 is trying to avoid.   From  the article:

I think if you look at MMOs the really frustrating thing is that I am playing this game online with thousands of people and I don’t interact with hardly any of them. Maybe with the people on my friends list or in my guild and that’s it.  In old school MMOs you didn’t want other players around you because they were kill stealing from you or they would get in the way of the stuff I was trying to do. That can drive a player nuts.

GW2 is trying to make a game where you're not limited to only wanting to interact with the few dozen (or less) people in your guild, but everyone on the server.     This is a completely different level than anything that could be attained in EQ or any other previous MMO, if ArenaNet can pull it off.

Old-school guild players always accuse casual gameplay of letting people play a solo game when it's supposed to be a MASSIVELY Multiplayer game.   It's time to throw that tired old argument back into their faces.  What's so MASSIVE about only wanting to interact with your guildmates when they only make up a tiny fraction of the server population?

GW2 seems to be aiming to create a server-wide community that is based not only on just those players who want to be nice but actual game mechanics that support real player cooperation.

I was originally pointing out how the interview implied that this was something old-school MMOs had lost when in fact they never had something on this level simply because of their instrinc game mechancs.    Heck, the orignal interview question seems to say that guild groups are responsible for the loss of the very camaraderie you talk about.    I would agree with you that what camaraderie (in its limited fashion)  that there has been in previous MMOs was the result of EQ-style guilds.

But ArenaNet has decided that they can make a game that can do far better than that. 

 

 I supose it's possible that people had a different experince than i did but i never only socialized within my guild and friends list, in the early years of EQ. The thing that made the community strong wasn't only forced grouping but time sinks and ease of play. You had so much downtime in EQ in the early years and even if you were killing something , combat consisted of hitting auto attack or casting 1-2 spells then sitting for 10min. You used all this extra time to socialize. Sometimes with your guild or a friend but sometimes it was zonewide conversations or just someone who was hunting near you. You actually had time to really get to know people.

 

 This was all in the very beginning though after the first couple years things started to change. Especially when SoE took over. The game got easier, people got greedy, and then it started to lose some of that close community. So if you didn't start playing til the game was 3-4 yrs old , you never really got to experience that close knit community some of us talk about.

 

GW2 like everything else these days is a button mashing game. They even took it one step further , now you have to manually dodge as well as hit skill buttons. So forget about having any type of conversation while fighting unless it is on some type of voicechat. Which is a whole nother nightmare in itself. It's never been a great tool for community interaction and even works against it in some ways.

 

I do like that GW2 is trying to get the community together, but putting 100 people in the same place doesn't mean they are going to socialize and become a close community. It may give you more of a community feel being around many other players. In reality though everyone is still in there own little social circle. Having 100 people in the same area can also lead to a lot of fighting and bickering. There are certain types of gamers who just dont get along with each other. PvPer's dont like PvEer's , hardcore players dont like casual players , and of course everyone hates the WoW kids. There are exceptions of course but i think you get what i am trying to say.

 

It's a really ugly thing to think about , and i'd like nothing more than to be wrong and have them prove me wrong. I think you'd have a better chance of getting Osama bin Laden to sing the Star Spangled Banner though. =/

What Colin means is out of those hundred or so people, they hope that atleast a few would come out and interact with you when the event is over and possibly even decide to group later. I like this approach better than forced grouping. Grouping should only be encouraged or rather inspired if you enjoyed playing with them. So after an event, a few of you might decide to party up and do the next events together without having anyone else that was forced into a group because you needed them but you dont like them, that is their goal. With this mechanic, there is some sense of community, why simply because you aren't competing in the PvE areas anymore as others have pointed out. There is no stealing kills, xps and loot. You're all fighting in the same side.

Originally posted by Githern

I'd rather them not release any info so there is still content to "wow" us. The marketing department hopefully knows what the heck they're doing. I guess we'll see.

Well, they are leading the hype meeter right now, that seems to say that marketing are competent.

Originally posted by Dookz

 

What Colin means is out of those hundred or so people, they hope that atleast a few would come out and interact with you when the event is over and possibly even decide to group later. I like this approach better than forced grouping. Grouping should only be encouraged or rather inspired if you enjoyed playing with them. So after an event, a few of you might decide to party up and do the next events together without having anyone else that was forced into a group because you needed them but you dont like them, that is their goal. With this mechanic, there is some sense of community, why simply because you aren't competing in the PvE areas anymore as others have pointed out. There is no stealing kills, xps and loot.

 

 Ok i thought he was talking about the community as a whole. I can see your points where it will help in smaller ways. I agree encouraged grouping is better than forced. Thanks for clearing that up for me. 8)

I see nothing wrong with playing solely with Guildmates, or with close friends, etc - because, by implication, one has already spent a degree of time playing with PUGS [pick-up groups] and as another poster had pointed out, has experienced mixed results that have been detrimental to one's gameplay.

I'm all for anything that encourages player interaction, however I strongly believe it is / has been player interdependence that encourages, nay, demands socialization; whether it be through grouping to achieve a particular aim, face-to-face trading (life before Auction Houses e.g. localized economies) or crafting.

I disagree with the assumption that dynamic scripting will encourage socialization. It's a bit of a red herring, when to my mind, the real innovation is through dynamic scripts
(i) effecting gameplay, irrespective of whether one interacts with them or not, and
(ii) persistent effect e.g. if a village is razed by an army of orcs then the following conditions will be true: the village will remain burnt (unless rebuilt), and the orcs will remain to terrorize other locales (unless dealt with).

I used to play LoTRO and there was a lot of player socializtion either through RP or grouping as part of the questing system. In that regard, nothing had really changed from my EQ days - except when quests started to get toned down in challenge and a solo option added to the main quests. Then I found "Need help with x quest", "I also need that quest! I'll be right there!", "Sorry, I've just ran it solo. Thanks for the offer!" to be more commonplace.

There is nothing wrong with casual play - but everything wrong with the contemporary definition of casual play as streamlining / removing any semblance of player interdependence that has killed socialization. As another poster on another thread pointed out, one suspects that [contemporary] MMO play is a single-player experience, but with other players as background noise.

That said, I am excited about dynamic scripting because aside from the decline of player interdependence, I've become increasingly disappointed with persistent worlds with non-persistent content i.e. everything 'resets' x minutes later irrespective of player action, provides for only a couple of inches of sand with which to make castles. Barely enough sand to kick in the other kids' faces ;)

Cheers!

Probably having two major events organized on close dates, as GamesCom and Pax, kind of exhausts the information one could release about Guild Wars 2, in this particular moment - however this PvP system choice they speak of in the interview is news to me. Having played Warhammer online and simply loving theyr Realm vs Realm PvP, i couldnt be happyer about Guild Wars 2 opting for a similar system.

I haven't played any of the GW2 demo versions so far, but from what i've red on the net and from the videos i've seen so far, i noticed there are common classes (warrior, ranger, elementalist and necromancer), in the game with a common NPC that  sells you spells (nothing new so far). Personally i would have appreciated an original at least terminology, and/or class progression, like for instance Age of Conan the Herald of Xotli or the Conqueror, or as old Lineage 2 with its Spellsingers, Overlords and all the others, along with a class evolution step.  Guess we'll still have to wait and see if the remaining 4 professions to be revealed are stereotypical classes or maybe they'll bring out something new.

I'm hoping they'll bring back the mesmer from GW1. There's a class you don't see in many other MMOs.

Loving this so much.

The more I read, the more I am won over.

I am SO looking forward to playing this EXPERIENCE--because it no longer seems like just a game to me. =)

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Xondar123

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

Oh, great. Then you might answer a few questions to me:

How will crafting work?

Will you actually get armor dropping or will they be crafted so they actually fit you like in the first game (I do know you can upgrade the armor).

How will Norns work, can they shapeshift at will and what are their froms?

Which animals will be pets? Minipets?LOL Minipets

Which are the all the 8 classes, I only know 4?

Either you are working on ANET yourself or that was some weird sarcasm becuse there are a lot of unknowns yet. The reason they havn't said so much news is the fact that they revealed loads at Gamescon a few weeks ago and they only talks about stuff that already works now.

Crafting and PvP are the 2 big subjects which we heard very little about yet. But I think many people forget that it was only a few weeks ago we got to see the game and were shown a lot of this content.

Just relax, they will release more things when they work as they should, besides, it would be stupid to hype up the game so long before launch and reveal nothing new after that.

 

good stuff cant wait for this game! I just really want more info. From the info and videos I have gathered from these events it looks like to be a fun, social and very poished product.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

I think this guy thought this was a Jumpgate: Evolution article.

Apparently the last few weeks don't count for much to you, then?

Originally posted by Volkspanzer

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

I think this guy thought this was a Jumpgate: Evolution article.

Apparently the last few weeks don't count for much to you, then?

No Lord.Bachus knows his onions, that's the downside of being on top of the info/marketing dowload for a new game ; )

I was interested in their ideas about making the mmo more about players reacting positively with each other, & their acknowledgement to DAOC's 3-FACTION system - one of the BEST examples of ArenaNet choosing the right features and design to implement.

Still only half-way on some of the features revealed: Professions, PvP, End-Game, Crafting, Guilds, Story.

So when's the release date? "When it's ready." : O

GW2 looks great - and sounds great.  Ive been an avid MMO fan for many years, dating back to Earth and Beyond; and have played a dozen or so MMO's.

I truly hope the devs ideas and VERY optimistic hopes and dreams dontcome crashing down though.

One thing I believe many developers completely and utterly fail to capture and grasp is the nature of much of the modern day MMO community.  Perhaps I am a bit jaded, but sadly there are a lot of very nasty and vicious groups of players out there.  Griefing for some people is the ultimate fun.

Every Game I have played has had more than its share of players and entire guilds that can simply ruin a server or game for everyone else.  I'm sure everyone here who has played MMO's understands this.

You have players and  guilds that will do anything and everything they can to get ahead.  Exploit, cheat, bend other people to their devices.  Griefing can be quite prominent. You have players that no matter how great a game is will bash it, the community, and spoil the fun for others - even while still playing the game and moaning constantly about it.

You simply cannot gauge how far a community of players can twist an MMO.

Instead of asking so many questions about the Dynamic Events system, etc and sounding all enthralled and amazed by it... why isnt MMORPG.com and others asking harder questions?  How is GW2 going to prevent your hardcore "ill win at any cost" players from damaging the concept of the game for casual players?  How fast will they get a handle on exploiting and cheats?  How much in-game support is there going to be to handle the ugly stuff? 

It doesnt seem possible... but I can GUARANTEE you that someone will find a way to grief someone else during these dynamic events.  How is GW2 going to fix that?

Could be the most well thought out, designed, and greatest game ever.  But if the Community turns out to be riddled with punks, elitist jerks and the like it will be no better than anything else around.

Originally posted by FURYBlakhart

GW2 looks great - and sounds great.  Ive been an avid MMO fan for many years, dating back to Earth and Beyond; and have played a dozen or so MMO's.

 

I truly hope the devs ideas and VERY optimistic hopes and dreams dontcome crashing down though.

One thing I believe many developers completely and utterly fail to capture and grasp is the nature of much of the modern day MMO community.  Perhaps I am a bit jaded, but sadly there are a lot of very nasty and vicious groups of players out there.  Griefing for some people is the ultimate fun.

Every Game I have played has had more than its share of players and entire guilds that can simply ruin a server or game for everyone else.  I'm sure everyone here who has played MMO's understands this.

You have players and  guilds that will do anything and everything they can to get ahead.  Exploit, cheat, bend other people to their devices.  Griefing can be quite prominent. You have players that no matter how great a game is will bash it, the community, and spoil the fun for others - even while still playing the game and moaning constantly about it.

You simply cannot gauge how far a community of players can twist an MMO.

Instead of asking so many questions about the Dynamic Events system, etc and sounding all enthralled and amazed by it... why isnt MMORPG.com and others asking harder questions?  How is GW2 going to prevent your hardcore "ill win at any cost" players from damaging the concept of the game for casual players?  How fast will they get a handle on exploiting and cheats?  How much in-game support is there going to be to handle the ugly stuff? 

It doesnt seem possible... but I can GUARANTEE you that someone will find a way to grief someone else during these dynamic events.  How is GW2 going to fix that?

 I'm sure ArenaNet will monitor the launch and the early days of the game more heavily than any other day of the game since they recognize this period is the most important. They've done this with Guild Wars 1, very quick to fix any unforseen flaws in mechanics. And even during the life, sometimes even hours of an exploit being exposed, they take action. They read and reply in the fansite forums. Probably the quickest way to bring out problems and get attention quickly. ArenaNet can take severe actions as well from suspension to permanent ban.

In GW1, there are youtube videos of people getting banned by the Bhan of Dhuum, he slices you in half and burns your corpse. They only do this when you are online so everyone sees that they mean business! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fFYug8nXcM In spring alone, they've banned 3700 accounts. So expect that they will continue something like this. They also have an in-game reporting sytem that's very quick to use.

Could be the most well thought out, designed, and greatest game ever.  But if the Community turns out to be riddled with punks, elitist jerks and the like it will be no better than anything else around.

Originally posted by FURYBlakhart

GW2 looks great - and sounds great.  Ive been an avid MMO fan for many years, dating back to Earth and Beyond; and have played a dozen or so MMO's.

 

I truly hope the devs ideas and VERY optimistic hopes and dreams dontcome crashing down though.

One thing I believe many developers completely and utterly fail to capture and grasp is the nature of much of the modern day MMO community.  Perhaps I am a bit jaded, but sadly there are a lot of very nasty and vicious groups of players out there.  Griefing for some people is the ultimate fun.

Every Game I have played has had more than its share of players and entire guilds that can simply ruin a server or game for everyone else.  I'm sure everyone here who has played MMO's understands this.

You have players and  guilds that will do anything and everything they can to get ahead.  Exploit, cheat, bend other people to their devices.  Griefing can be quite prominent. You have players that no matter how great a game is will bash it, the community, and spoil the fun for others - even while still playing the game and moaning constantly about it.

You simply cannot gauge how far a community of players can twist an MMO.

Instead of asking so many questions about the Dynamic Events system, etc and sounding all enthralled and amazed by it... why isnt MMORPG.com and others asking harder questions?  How is GW2 going to prevent your hardcore "ill win at any cost" players from damaging the concept of the game for casual players?  How fast will they get a handle on exploiting and cheats?  How much in-game support is there going to be to handle the ugly stuff? 

It doesnt seem possible... but I can GUARANTEE you that someone will find a way to grief someone else during these dynamic events.  How is GW2 going to fix that?

 

Could be the most well thought out, designed, and greatest game ever.  But if the Community turns out to be riddled with punks, elitist jerks and the like it will be no better than anything else around.

Watch this http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

You can skip to the Q&A section or you can watch the whole thing. Its quite interesting but the Q&A section answers your question.

I have hardly seen a more empty interview than that.

I wonder if MMORPG.com dudes are not paid by game companies, seeing the empty questions they are asking.

Guys, seriously, get a journalist card, do some internship at CNN and come back  to ask real questions and not just write a story about "i'm a game designer and i'm talking bout my life".

If we dig back the interviews u guys did with other games, then APB, WAR, SWG NGE, hell, even Darkfail would be top notch games. 

CHALLENGE UR INTERVIEWEES or don't call it an interview, call it a blog.

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by FURYBlakhart

GW2 looks great - and sounds great.  Ive been an avid MMO fan for many years, dating back to Earth and Beyond; and have played a dozen or so MMO's.

 

I truly hope the devs ideas and VERY optimistic hopes and dreams dontcome crashing down though.

One thing I believe many developers completely and utterly fail to capture and grasp is the nature of much of the modern day MMO community.  Perhaps I am a bit jaded, but sadly there are a lot of very nasty and vicious groups of players out there.  Griefing for some people is the ultimate fun.

Every Game I have played has had more than its share of players and entire guilds that can simply ruin a server or game for everyone else.  I'm sure everyone here who has played MMO's understands this.

You have players and  guilds that will do anything and everything they can to get ahead.  Exploit, cheat, bend other people to their devices.  Griefing can be quite prominent. You have players that no matter how great a game is will bash it, the community, and spoil the fun for others - even while still playing the game and moaning constantly about it.

You simply cannot gauge how far a community of players can twist an MMO.

Instead of asking so many questions about the Dynamic Events system, etc and sounding all enthralled and amazed by it... why isnt MMORPG.com and others asking harder questions?  How is GW2 going to prevent your hardcore "ill win at any cost" players from damaging the concept of the game for casual players?  How fast will they get a handle on exploiting and cheats?  How much in-game support is there going to be to handle the ugly stuff? 

It doesnt seem possible... but I can GUARANTEE you that someone will find a way to grief someone else during these dynamic events.  How is GW2 going to fix that?

 

Could be the most well thought out, designed, and greatest game ever.  But if the Community turns out to be riddled with punks, elitist jerks and the like it will be no better than anything else around.

Watch this http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

You can skip to the Q&A section or you can watch the whole thing. Its quite interesting but the Q&A section answers your question.

 

I was just about to link that video as well. Lol ^^

It is a good video to see as well even if you watch it from the beginning.  I have been keeping up with it since they started releasing information and I have still found some other things that I did not know.  They mention alot of good stuff in the video so check it out.  Most importantly, they discuss some PVP things as well.  It isn't much, but being a hardcore pvp fanatic like myself, I was jizzing in my pants.

Whoah wait time out. Is this a slip up? So the game IS DONE. given that they started the development in 2007?

Damn you ArenaNet, I want this game on the shelf now! This is torture. >.<'

Originally posted by jvxmtg

 

Colin:

Definitely shows like PAX are the greatest moment for me. We have spent three years building this game and the last few months we put out a ton of marketing material. We said we were going to do a lot and everything we set out to do we put into the game. We did not want to talk about them until they were in the game and they worked. There is a lot of danger to make a lot of bold claims and you don’t follow through on them. We don’t want to do that. We said a lot of stuff and we had a lot of people say we wouldn’t be able to do it. Or something like: yeah, that sounds awesome, but not one is ever going to build that.

 

Whoah wait time out. Is this a slip up? So the game IS DONE. given that they started the development in 2007?

 

Damn you ArenaNet, I want this game on the shelf now! This is torture. >.<'

 

If the game was done it would be out already lol.  Obviously it is not done yet ><

Originally posted by Senjinn

GW2 like everything else these days is a button mashing game. They even took it one step further , now you have to manually dodge as well as hit skill buttons. So forget about having any type of conversation while fighting unless it is on some type of voicechat. Which is a whole nother nightmare in itself. It's never been a great tool for community interaction and even works against it in some ways.

 

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences with voice chat.  Voice chat always made my gaming communities closer.  It's always easier to get to know someone with voice than reading chat.  I'm a great typist, but I'd prefer guilds with voice chat options because I feel more at home that way. :)

Anyways, this game is sounding cooler and cooler every time I read something new about it.  Keep up the good work! :D

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played.

Of hundreds of people?  DAOC if you were a hib most hibs you fight and die for. You didn't need to even know them other than if they were elf, lurikeen, firblog, etc. Thats the comradery daoc had. Most pve in the game were group efforts as it almost always relested in better exp (unless people were just fighting yellows [even daoc had solo time when you wanted to fight at your own pace]).

Most guilds had over a hundred people that you grouped with and talked to every day. You don't only fight and die for teammates in PVP. PVE Grouping in games that are actually hard, have death penalties, high end raiding in difficult locations, need strategies, etc. gets intense as well, plus the guilds were very tight and spent a lot of time together, not just pick up fights in pvp.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

 

Originally posted by vesuvias

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

MMOs haven't lost  this broad camaraderie, MMOs never had it outside of PvP content.   Previous MMOs starting from UO were based on pitting players in competetion with each other for resources in PvE (XP, gold etc).  

 

Well Said. We don't really know what the broader implications for this will be yet. This could change things to such a degree to almost be considered a new genre.  Though I suspect when most people actually get used to it this way, they will ask "Why wasn't it always this way?".  

Heh, I think that last sentence is very true.   It's like the zipper, it seems so obvious now but it took a while to get invented.  Truly good ideas are often like that.

 

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

I agree that Dynamic Events encourage player interaction without forcing it but your example of the EQ-style groups and guilds is exactly what GW2 is trying to avoid.   From  the article:

I think if you look at MMOs the really frustrating thing is that I am playing this game online with thousands of people and I don’t interact with hardly any of them. Maybe with the people on my friends list or in my guild and that’s it.  In old school MMOs you didn’t want other players around you because they were kill stealing from you or they would get in the way of the stuff I was trying to do. That can drive a player nuts.

GW2 is trying to make a game where you're not limited to only wanting to interact with the few dozen (or less) people in your guild, but everyone on the server.     This is a completely different level than anything that could be attained in EQ or any other previous MMO, if ArenaNet can pull it off.

Old-school guild players always accuse casual gameplay of letting people play a solo game when it's supposed to be a MASSIVELY Multiplayer game.   It's time to throw that tired old argument back into their faces.  What's so MASSIVE about only wanting to interact with your guildmates when they only make up a tiny fraction of the server population?

GW2 seems to be aiming to create a server-wide community that is based not only on just those players who want to be nice but actual game mechanics that support real player cooperation.

I was originally pointing out how the interview implied that this was something old-school MMOs had lost when in fact they never had something on this level simply because of their instrinc game mechancs.    Heck, the orignal interview question seems to say that guild groups are responsible for the loss of the very camaraderie you talk about.    I would agree with you that what camaraderie (in its limited fashion)  that there has been in previous MMOs was the result of EQ-style guilds.

But ArenaNet has decided that they can make a game that can do far better than that. 

i agree, GW2 is trying something completely new and I'm very optimistic that it will take mmo's to a new level. I was just pointing out many of the older games had active communities tha Had to work together to achieve goals thats why most guilds were near or over a hundred people (if it was a serious one) and you Had to group with strangers as well, so griefing and other negative behavior was frowned upon, because you needed each other, so it made no sense to burn bridges. Games changed to stop the forced grouping (which i like in some ways), but didnt offer many other reasons to interact in the game mechanics. If GW2 can succeed with this dyn event system it will change how future games are made. In the least it gives a game mechanic to interact in the game besides just talking about movies or comic books over the general chat.

Great ... PVP focus.   I was gonna buy this too.   Not any more.

So which of the new games is going to be smart and actually not do what all the rest are doing?

Originally posted by baalio

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

 

There are serious problems with forced grouping to build trust and camaraderie in the current MMO environment, now that they have gone mainstream and there are so many more genes in the pool...

Here are the problems that I see:

1) Many players(won't say most, cause I haven't met most... but most of the ones I have met) are mediocre at best. Back when I used to play WoW I used to take guildies into wailing caverns to teach them how to pull, cause the concept of breaking LOS or of staying at max distance to avoid adds seemed completely foreign to them...

2)Players who don't know... and don't want to know. They are doing something incorrectly(pulling a leroy vs. pulling at a distance, for example), or they are missing something about game mechanics, etc... and they do not want to hear it from anyone. They will even start raging because they perceive you as trying to "tell them how to play their character".

3) Players are self-centered. They will not be team players unless someone forces them to be. IMO this was the downfall of warhammer in NA. Players in europe were hitting the cities and gearing up before players in NA even got to the fortresses. I played on both sides on 4 different servers to max level, and I had RL friends who played on a few more... and the story was always the same. You get a group out in PvP, and no one would listen to the raid leader... Everyone was too busy doing their own thing. Just keeping people together was almost impossible, unless you had a zerg going. This was even more evident in the battlegrounds... "Man, did you see my damage numbers?" "Ummm, we lost..." "Yeah, but did you see my damage numbers?". We had the same thing in WoW... I lost track of how many times we lost our healers to "the bomb" in MC and stuff like that cause people wouldn't listen.

4) Players are picky. They get it into their minds that a group can only be effective if you have classes A, B, E, and G. So if you show up and there is one spot left and you aren't the class they are missing... too bad.

 

 

GW2, from everything I have been able to read about it, is incredible. I read their manifesto and watched their videos, and so far I agree with them 100%. They've taken mechanical steps to eliminate number 4, and they are trying to use gameplay to bring people together and try and establish community. If anyone can do it, it will be them... That being said, there is only so much they can do to overcome human nature.

I played DAOC from beta through to beta 3 of ToA, and while people's nostalgia for what we had in DAOC is real... and what we had in DAOC WAS real... People don't understand why and how we had it. The reason it was there wasn't so much because of what they were or what they built... It was because of WHO we were... When DAOC was out, 100k subscribers was a huge number, and there were only a handfull of MMOs, most of them with less than that. It was a much smaller community than the current environment. There was more of a barrier to entry on those games, with their interfaces, lack of tutorials, etc... And the people who actually made it into the game and stuck with the game mostly knew what they were doing. While making games slicker, more user friendly, and more appealing are always good things... I think that removing the barrier to entry on these games and bringing them wholly mainstream has harmed the player's ability to form communities and to find functional teams.

I agree with most of what you said and in no way am i defending forced grouping. I was happy to see games go more toward missions and content, soloing, some instancing and other new mechanics as the grinding timesink of sitting around waiting for spawns, gear dependence, kill stealing , etc got old, but the teamwork, strategy and relationships made it worth it. Recent games went to far away from the emechanics that encourage socialization. I'm excited to see how GW2's systems works in the game world with hundreds of people running arouind and if it will be enough to get the casual gamers to invest more to the community and be more of a part of it, instead of logging in quickly trying to get xp and logging out, without experiencing the rest. Not putting casual gamers down, I've been one before because of time constraints, but I think they miss out on other aspects of gaming communities, but with GW2 it sounds possible to be on for an hour and still get together and meet many people, succeed in a cool event and not spend more time than they can or want to. I do disagree with the point of so many bad players in guilds or groups, though in pick up groups it is more common, but serious guilds wouldn't keep members that were not willing to learn. If you've planned a raid for hours, took another hour to fight to the right location, etc and then get wiped because someone can't pull a mob or follow orders-they won't be invited back to the next raid. But over all good points and hope to see you in GW2!

The more I read about this game, the more I look forward to actually playing it.  I first heard about it a couple of years ago, and there was a long silence when I would wonder if it was actually going to happen. Fantastic to know that it is, and also that there are so many great features.  My latest excitement is about the tri-partite server v server pvp.  Yay!  *cheers*

They should let us play T_T At least the small parts PAX peoples got to. I don't care if it's limited! I just wanna...PLAY D: *claws at it* GIVE IT TO ME! Next year is going to come so slow. I probably won't get any sleep the week before it actually goes live.

Originally posted by nefermor

Great ... PVP focus.   I was gonna buy this too.   Not any more.

So which of the new games is going to be smart and actually not do what all the rest are doing?

 

 GW was supposed to be a PvP-focused game but I really enjoyed the PvE aspect of it. Anet will undoubtedly provide both aspects of play and the player will choose to take part in either or both.  In GW you could make a max lvl toon and play PvP without ever playing PvE, or PvE without ever PvP.

As for the server  vs server PvP, I am excited to see how they work this out. I would imagine it's a specific instance with balancing limitations set up, but I really really hope that it allows for huge battles

I peed my pants a little bit.

The more I read about this game, the more excited I become to play it!

Next up, the beta.

I hope it'll run properly on my laptop because I hate having to boot up my PC...

The response to the final question makes me wonder how much "end game" PvE GW2 will include.  They made it sound like PvE is where you "level up"--although the GW2 world's "leveling" system through dynamic events sounds much much more entertaining than previous MMOs--and make friends, and then the world PvP server is where you go to participate in end game content, using your "leveled" character. 

For the most part, I don't mind this concept for a game, so long as A) there IS some sort of extensive high level PVE, and B) this system doesn't generate a sense of discontinuity in the GW2 world.   If it feels like you play and develope your character in one world, and then just copy/paste your character into a different pvp world, all the continuity that is traditionally generated by a virtual MMO world is shattered.  Half the appeal of an MMO is existing in a continuous, persistent virtual world. 

now if that game would have a persistent world instead of instances it might actually be interesting, sad.

Originally posted by Thane

now if that game would have a persistent world instead of instances it might actually be interesting, sad.

Except it is persistant.

Originally posted by Thane

now if that game would have a persistent world instead of instances it might actually be interesting, sad.

 It is persistent.

Originally posted by Thane

now if that game would have a persistent world instead of instances it might actually be interesting, sad.

 

its mainly persistent , with a few instances to tell the personal story

read about the game so it wont make you feel sad

@Homitu, you can level through PvP in GW2; it's not simply an end-game activity.

GW2 endgame consists of revisiting areas via the sidekick system, helping others through their personal stories for karma, 5-man dungeons, rolling alts, and of course the PvP which is there from level 2 onwards.

If by "endgame content" you mean large-scale instanced raids, then no, GW2 does not seem to be designed in that direction.

@nefermor: PvP is entirely optional in GW2. GW1 could be said to be "PvP-focused" and in five years I have taken part in exactly 3 PvP matches, yet still have PvE content and achievments to pursue. You never have to do it if you don't want to.

I hope there is some PvE endgame that motivates you to actually keep playing, cause I kinda doubt alot players will go back to level 5 content when they are lvl 80.

Hope they make some of the events and dungeons really REALLY hard :D

Firstly im going to say, i don't doubt this game is going to be epic.........and im not afraid to say it's going to crush WoW.......and finally any WoW troll will tell you....WoW is only the best MMO because really it's the ONLY MMO, and GW is the best PvP MMO because agian, it's the only one.

But GW2 doesn't look like anything NEW so far.......it looks WoW and WaR fused....i've yet to see those GW1 dungeon and mission sets implemented, that's what will really make this game i rekon. Apart from that the visuals, art content etc. and general gameplay will keep us entertained for AGES....all I'm asking for is a story to boot.................

p.s. is anyone else reading Ghost of Ascalon, I've only just hit the 6th or 7th chapter and im starting to like it..........

an MMO needs more than just this cookie cutter template which is no more than an overglorified UI, some basic game content and a few races and classes which don't really add so much to the game.........an mmo needs to be unique, and epic, with lore and fantasy which doesn't come from the boxes we all live in, you can't really fuck up an MMO with so many gamers out there, even Star Trek and Wars are going to sell. 

I imagine the same end game problem all MMOs have with the big question, IF I have played this game well and spent my time exploring and learning the world just as much as levelling to 80 and getting the sweet gear..................WHAT do i do next........apart from rolling another character. What if I really like my warrior? What if I don't want to try any more? What if I want to go the distance with my warrior? MMOs nowdays just don't reward that quality....this could be solved with simply having a MAJOR STORY to follow at the end which yealds only the bonus of an excellent adventure, with or without other players........I don't mind playing with bot AI so long as they're not useless, maybe there is no killing but gaining some ultra elite skills sets for doing the story as you meet the LEGENDS of the LORE..........hell I'm sure i've heard gamers cry this stuff many times before, I've just never seen anyone do anything about it....GW2 could be the first to do it right.

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by Thane

now if that game would have a persistent world instead of instances it might actually be interesting, sad.

 It is persistent.

so they kicked the old system and went for a real mmo this time? would be nice :)

They officially now have my attention.

Can't wait the game. I'm just hoping to hear something new about PvP in GW2...