This will be a relief.

Well it sounds good to me 80 levels with a static amount between levels. Either way GW bascially didnt make you worry about leveling and they game stayed fun in PvE.

Well, when you take out the subscription based model out of the equation, this makes sense. No single player games cares if you finish the game in a day or 3 months. You bought the box, end of sale.

Keeping the interest in the game so future expansions can be sold will be the key

oh dear, this doesnt sound good.

People like leveling, so knowing that level 1-2 is going to be just as long as 79-80 means that yet again, leveling in guildwars means nothing, its not going to feel like an acheivment.

people think that the problem with guildwars 1 was the instancing.. but actually what most MMO players didnt like was the leveling.

No doubt this will suit a lot of players, but those expecting Guildwars to be more 'MMOish' are going to be disapointed.

also, the only real way to acheive a 1-80 with no leveling curve is to make the content linear, as Guildwars 1 was.  Again another flaw with guildwars.

I've not seen anything about GW2 yet which sparks my interest, and articles like this  are fluff.. they arnt telling you the whole truth about their system, and when it comes out ppl will be disapointed.

Actually I intensly dislike level based gameplay...

GW mostly met my dislike, as the L20 cap was very quickly achieved, which then left me to focus on content exploration, skill aquisition and build development and testing.

I play Eve because there are only 'skill levels' ... my character is defined by the skills I have aquired, not some arbitrary 'xp level'.

I have played, EQ2, Wow, Conan, WH & Aion, and they were intensely level based.

Equipment restricted by Level

Content restricted by Level

Skills/abilities restricted by Level

Some people prefer and enjoy this 'playstyle' .. that is thier choice, I have tried it and it leaves me feeling restrained, restricted and limited in my options.

Actually, why should levelling feel like an achivement, i don't understand that line of thought. There are so many other ways they can reward the player, than "..grats you have gained another 1 billion exp you are now level 80.."

I'd rather the achievement being that i'm now level 80 and completed that very hard Quest/instance/event whatever.

Levelling is a way to keep track of how far along a given path you character is, not an achievement in and of itself... well except for heavy grind games :P

Originally posted by Veryll

Levelling is a way to keep track of how far along a given path you character is, not an achievement in and of itself... well except for heavy grind games :P

Its human nature, something you cant avoid.  We love to be different or better or unique compared to our peers.

The ONLY way to be unique in guildwars 1 is to have the 'rare' skinned weapons or armor or pets.  They arnt actually different, the armors arnt different (statistically) so thats the only thing you could do in GW1 to make yourself seem like your own character, and not some duplicate.

So, while leveling may not seem like an acheivment as such, it does set you apart from the crowd, its a measring stick if you like.  Its why MMO's are popular, its called a Role Playing Game.. but wheres the attraction if the character your playing is no better or worse than anyone else?

This leveling system is more like Eve's leveling system.. its not something you need determination  to do, its just a natural inevitability.

Originally posted by sadeyx

Originally posted by Veryll

Levelling is a way to keep track of how far along a given path you character is, not an achievement in and of itself... well except for heavy grind games :P

Its human nature, something you cant avoid.  We love to be different or better or unique compared to our peers.

The ONLY way to be unique in guildwars 1 is to have the 'rare' skinned weapons or armor or pets.  They arnt actually different, the armors arnt different (statistically) so thats the only thing you could do in GW1 to make yourself seem like your own character, and not some duplicate.

 

So, while leveling may not seem like an acheivment as such, it does set you apart from the crowd, its a measring stick if you like.  Its why MMO's are popular, its called a Role Playing Game.. but wheres the attraction if the character your playing is no better or worse than anyone else?

 

This leveling system is more like Eve's leveling system.. its not something you need determination  to do, its just a natural inevitability.

I will agree with you that people love to be different or set apart. But there need not be a level system to do this. You can have rare and very hard to get weapons and armors, a good paint/dye system for armors, the ability to fuse armor like in Aion where you can give an armor a different look, but keep stats.

A level system is indeed a measuring stick, but it doesn't need to be the primary driving force behind the player.

good news for altholics :)

now let´s see how that work with dynamic events and personal story.

Originally posted by sadeyx

oh dear, this doesnt sound good.

People like leveling, so knowing that level 1-2 is going to be just as long as 79-80 means that yet again, leveling in guildwars means nothing, its not going to feel like an acheivment.

People like lvls yes ,  but maybe you don't have to jump to the conclussion that a linear lvl system means nothing ! It sounds like you think that without a progressive harder lvl system, the feeling of achivement can't be obtained. I am quite sure that Areana Net whole idea is to try to prove that wrong.

people think that the problem with guildwars 1 was the instancing.. but actually what most MMO players didnt like was the leveling.

what most players? those who stayed and played complained that leveling was to fast done. But i don't think that can be genelised to most MMO players, i actual think in that case it was instancing that was the turn off

No doubt this will suit a lot of players, but those expecting Guildwars to be more 'MMOish' are going to be disapointed.

why ? should a linear lvl progression system makes it less "MMOish ? Are you saying that without grind its not an MMO?

 also, the only real way to acheive a 1-80 with no leveling curve is to make the content linear, as Guildwars 1 was.  Again another flaw with guildwars.

or is it a flaw in your logic? because those 2 thing is not forced to be tied to each other. And the linear content you mention in GW1 is that the highly quality story line ? 

 I've not seen anything about GW2 yet which sparks my interest, and articles like this  are fluff.. they arnt telling you the whole truth about their system, and when it comes out ppl will be disapointed.

are you a hater? because to claim that nothing sparks you interest for whats looks to be one of the most innovative game in development sure is a strange statement. You offcause have all right to be sceptical, but not being intruiqed is hard to understand for me

 

 

 great news i think. I like the linear lvl progression, and the anti grind idea involved

Originally posted by sadeyx

oh dear, this doesnt sound good.

People like leveling (I don't like levelling), so knowing that level 1-2 is going to be just as long as 79-80 means that yet again, leveling in guildwars means nothing, its not going to feel like an acheivment.

 

people think that the problem with guildwars 1 was the instancing.. but actually what most MMO players didnt like was the leveling.

 

No doubt this will suit a lot of players, but those expecting Guildwars to be more 'MMOish' are going to be disapointed.

 

also, the only real way to acheive a 1-80 with no leveling curve is to make the content linear (yes, despite Dynamic Events, the story may be more railroaded but I think this will be more quality story per story branch and a decent number of story branches at least), as Guildwars 1 was.  Again another flaw with guildwars.

 

I've not seen anything about GW2 yet which sparks my interest, and articles like this  are fluff (true but see below).. they arnt telling you the whole truth about their system, and when it comes out ppl will be disapointed.

I disagree in two ways:

(1)  ANet are just talking fluff here, that's very true, but the talk concerns reevaluating/reworking assumptions.

This is a lot more dependable talk than fluff/talk that is talking about all the little extras that they want to include in the game and tell ppl they are including so everyone with all their mulitude of pecadillos feel appeased by this sort of bs announcement. EG fix the roots not the branches it's as much as you can expect from any talk at the start of things.

EG So far: 1) Levels 2) Healers 3) Death 4) Combat have all had reevaluations. Is talking my language.

(2) : I don't care for levelling.

Analogy, back in the day, if I was playing a platform game, I'd want to play crafty sections that are well designed ("they thought of everything!") than chore through levels that are mind-numbingly difficult mechanics and require sheer number of attempts and one good/lucky/probability attempt and you move on to the next level. The origin of grind, maybe, for a high score reward?? I'm the player that wants to play each level and see how skillfully and how many different competing solutions per level I can come up with that all of them are fun, use gameplay flow and are the antithesis of brute force on the logic of the game mechanics to "clear" the level.

It is true also that what they are suggesting is very ambitious to pull off and therefore expectations need checking. But I'd prefer quality moments that can be redone with a twist than current levelling concepts: Feeding loads of candy at the start then retracting each "hit" further apart: A small carrot and large stick, imo!

I swear that they're doing their utmost to insure that I won't play GW2, after absolutely loving the original.  Static or not, leveling is leveling, and an annoyance.

Shame, really.  Ah well, just one more thing to add to the pile of "forget this game" I've got going.  I was so hoping for some actual GOOD news this time around, like perhaps retracting some of the things that have previously been announced.

High lvl caps are the most simplistic forms of achievement. Its just above hampsters running in a treadmill.

Its also something players often would like to skip on their second toon. Especially if the lvlcap will introduce restrictions on lower lvl. Thats when a high lvl cap turns out not to be fun and only be put in place to make ppl stay longer. While this works for subbased games, GW2's payment model doesnt need that, so I hope they will avoid the typical drawbacks of a high lvl cap.

Originally posted by sadeyx

oh dear, this doesnt sound good.

People like leveling, so knowing that level 1-2 is going to be just as long as 79-80 means that yet again, leveling in guildwars means nothing, its not going to feel like an acheivment.

actually most people don't like leveling, but they know they have to endure the nonsense of leveling in order to get to the fun part of MMOs.

as someone put on another forum i follow "leveling is the punishment players have to go through in order to access the fun of the game."

This is awesome news for GW2.

I will say this though, I had hoped that AN would take the next step from GW1 and get rid of levels. SWG had a great system for creating character advancement without levels pre-cu with skill ranks & trees. Unfortunately, no developers yet will take the risk in such a bold mechanic. 

I guess I'm too old-fashioned from my Pen and Paper D&D days, where gaining a level was huge and exciting. In thiose days, the next level would take weeks or months. Leveling was pretty much the point back then, and it was exciting. This "rush to end" game is not my bag. That's why I quit WoW with a bunch of 80s. End-game was "work".

I think there are just camps of people want "end-game" right away, and then there are people that like to play RPGs with other people. It appears that GW2 is going for the instant-end-game crowd. Those, those are not my kind of people. So it stands to reason that GW2 is not going to be my kind of game. Crap. It was atop my list. I thought it was going to be the game I was looking for.

Guess I'll be hopping on the LotRO F2P when it comes along instead.

IMO this is more good news on the GW2 front.  I personally like gaining levels for the purpose of seeing my character advance not as a sign of an achievement.   I like the feeling of gaining a level simply because it is receiving some positive feedback from the system.  Leveling to me is generally just an indication of time played anyway, not of any real accomplishment.  In the vast majority of games one can level to max level while wiping every single party you join and being a total fail as a player.  This is why I don't put much stock in levels.  Personally, I find achievement and accomplishment to come in the form of downing difficult pve content, which has its own rewards and visual cues to others outside of a level number, and whooping opponents behinds in pvp.  In addition, leveling tends to be what everyone rushes and grinds through anyway, so why not take the focus off the numbers and put it back on the content.

Originally posted by PhelimReagh

I guess I'm too old-fashioned from my Pen and Paper D&D days, where gaining a level was huge and exciting. In thiose days, the next level would take weeks or months. Leveling was pretty much the point back then, and it was exciting.

I thought having great adventures and fun was the point? Oh dear, I've been doing P&P wrong all these years!

GW has never been about a "rush to end game" seeing as max level is easily achieved 1/4 to 1/3 of the way through their storylines, and I see no reason to assume that GW2 will be any different, regardless of the amount of levels. In the blog post itself it is stated that content will be the driving principle, not achieving other levels or getting to "end game".

Originally posted by sidhaethe

Originally posted by PhelimReagh

I guess I'm too old-fashioned from my Pen and Paper D&D days, where gaining a level was huge and exciting. In thiose days, the next level would take weeks or months. Leveling was pretty much the point back then, and it was exciting.

I thought having great adventures and fun was the point? Oh dear, I've been doing P&P wrong all these years!

GW has never been about a "rush to end game" seeing as max level is easily achieved 1/4 to 1/3 of the way through their storylines, and I see no reason to assume that GW2 will be any different, regardless of the amount of levels. In the blog post itself it is stated that content will be the driving principle, not achieving other levels or getting to "end game".

Wasn't levelling in P&P about access to new weapons/spells/skills/abilities... that allowed more complex planning of various stories and  more ambitious ideas generation??

I am not sure your example is the right one... compare levelling in MMO's to a platform game/old-skool scrolling-shooter levels is more appropriate. What do you favor as a gamesplayer: 1) Rock-hard levels and huge number and amount of time to achieve a highscore or 2) Quality design that shows imagination and gameplay flexibility to complete, pitched at a steady and even challenge with lots of features per level but fewer of them?

Anway for RP:

Personality is a mechanic that gives players a method to roleplay their characters. The game keeps track of three categories: ferocity, dignity, and charm. Players may get a chance to say something to an NPC that corresponds to a category, and based on the mix of responses, a character is allocated a personality. This may cause NPCs to react differently to characters and open further options during dialogue; for example, a barbaric character could punch an NPC in the face.

A character with lots of charm and ferocity has the personality of a scoundrel.^[1]

so its 80 instead of 20...level never ment much in GW anyway and people seem like this game is going to a copy of GW1 but with levels...GUYS  the game will be leagues different that 80 levels could work...

dynamic events keep leveling fresh.. quests will not have to be repeated and different races start in their different areas so the worst part about leveling (at least for me is just starting out) will be removed if you pick a different race. classes play so differently that not only will PvP be different but PvE will change as well.

longer time between level cap helps the lower level areas not get left in dust and new players may still see others in the long run (unlike GW now)

PvP can still be played at lower levels and they will be boosted. levels may end up meaning nothing and you may hit 80 in the middle your personal story.,.who knows.

i am very happy about this

From the article: "Overall, we expect our content to be the driving force behind how long it takes to do things in-game. Anyone can increase the length of an experience bar and call it content, but our world is filled with an almost endless stream of things to do." This is excellent.

If, and not to drive the point home too much, NCSoft doesn't force ArenaNet to push this game out too soon the above statements will really help to reinvigorate the MMORPG genre. I'm holding on to hope with this game and with all that I've been reading, with each and every content-rich announcement, it seems like Guild Wars 2 is going to be not just a damn fine game but the MMORPG. That last bit may be pushing a bit too much but, still, it's hard to not get so excited and hopeful when we're being fed detailed, progressive announcements rather than marketing ploys and propaganda. I really think we're going to be in for something special here.

Originally posted by sadeyx

oh dear, this doesnt sound good.

People like leveling, so knowing that level 1-2 is going to be just as long as 79-80 means that yet again, leveling in guildwars means nothing, its not going to feel like an acheivment.

 

people think that the problem with guildwars 1 was the instancing.. but actually what most MMO players didnt like was the leveling.

 

No doubt this will suit a lot of players, but those expecting Guildwars to be more 'MMOish' are going to be disapointed.

 

also, the only real way to acheive a 1-80 with no leveling curve is to make the content linear, as Guildwars 1 was.  Again another flaw with guildwars.

 

I've not seen anything about GW2 yet which sparks my interest, and articles like this  are fluff.. they arnt telling you the whole truth about their system, and when it comes out ppl will be disapointed.

Ironically, these things you cite as negatives, to me are positives.  I was taken aback at first, by the fact that you could hit level 20 so quickly, but soon learned that capping level in GW is just part of your character's progression, and really, a minor one.  It's the rich and detailed storyline that keeps you moving forward, not the carrot at the end of the levelling stick.  And the "linear" storyline gives the impression that you actually are on a grand adventure, where the repercussions of your last quest can have a far-reaching influence on how the story unfolds.  Besides, the greatest literary works ever penned, were completely and totally, "linear" in nature.  But they are still engaging, thought-provoking and absorbing.  This is not a flaw, in my opinion.

Plus, I like the instancing.  Nothing ruins the ambience of an unfolding quest like tripping over the dozen whooping chimpanzees, running around you shrieking "pwnzurmamaz!11!!", as they rush forward to complete the same quest.  Yeah, I'm quite happy keeping these ravening idiots the hell out of my story, tyvm.

Originally posted by sadeyx

oh dear, this doesnt sound good.

People like leveling, so knowing that level 1-2 is going to be just as long as 79-80 means that yet again, leveling in guildwars means nothing, its not going to feel like an acheivment.

 

people think that the problem with guildwars 1 was the instancing.. but actually what most MMO players didnt like was the leveling.

 

No doubt this will suit a lot of players, but those expecting Guildwars to be more 'MMOish' are going to be disapointed.

 

also, the only real way to acheive a 1-80 with no leveling curve is to make the content linear, as Guildwars 1 was.  Again another flaw with guildwars.

 

I've not seen anything about GW2 yet which sparks my interest, and articles like this  are fluff.. they arnt telling you the whole truth about their system, and when it comes out ppl will be disapointed.

Yeah, I have to agree with a few others in that though this might seem like a negative to some, it will seem like a positive to others.

Some people hate levels so already there is a win there. I seem to remember a lot of GW players praising the fact that the 20 levels were relatively painless.

People also liked the story parts of GW so linear content was a no issue.

I think that hardcore GW players might be dissapointed but those who liked the feeling and, er, "gestalt" of GW will probably like it.

I've never understood leveling (or difficulty) curves.  I think that what's fun at the beginning of a game tends to be equally fun towards the end.  What's appropriately difficult (or tedious) at the beginning stays appropriate until the end.  So why do so many games start out ridiculously fast and easy, and then ramp up to excessively difficult and/or time consuming?  

Getting rid of the curve makes perfect sense to me.  If you want to slow down leveling, you can make it slower, just make it equally slow at all levels.

(note: when I refer to difficulty, I'm mostly referring to action games, like shooters.  Not talking about the sort of difficulty in MMOs that you overcome as you learn your class.  In a shooter, generally, you've either got good aim and reflexes, or you don't, and it doesn't change that much from beginning to end.  I only mention it, because it seems to be based on a similar core principle of how games are supposed to work.)

Actually this levelling curve they present there for other MMOs, isn't enitrely true. On most MMOs the next level needs more XP but monsters/quests give more XP too, so the time you need to spent remains almost the same.

Originally posted by scuubeedoo

Actually this levelling curve they present there for other MMOs, isn't enitrely true. On most MMOs the next level needs more XP but monsters/quests give more XP too, so the time you need to spent remains almost the same.

 Not true at all. Very very few games do that properly, and its neve rmade sense to me. It's true mobs/quests increase in XP given, but while they might for example double the amount of xp given, they will require you to gain 5x as much xp to reach the next level, making it take even longer. As many have stated, generally the progression from say level 1-10 is nowhere near the same rate as the last 10 levels. They amount of time to grind out each level continually increases in most games, even when you keep up with only doing stuff like killing the highest possible level mobs you can get xp from.

I really like this idea of static progression that they are discussing. It allows you to set a steady pace and know that each level will take about the same amount of time to reach and you can get a general idea of when you can expect to reach level cap and access certain content, etc. getting to higher level will not = you have to start grinding repetetive content over and over no matter how bored you are of it  for weeks simply so they have this required lengthy timesink to keep you paying next months sub in hopes of getting high enough to access that next set of equipment, or that next dungeon, or whatever.

Originally posted by scuubeedoo

Actually this levelling curve they present there for other MMOs, isn't enitrely true. On most MMOs the next level needs more XP but monsters/quests give more XP too, so the time you need to spent remains almost the same.

Have you ever played Aion?

I think the chart is pretty accurate. I've been waiting for a MMO to show up with the whole '1000 xp' per level design. Worked in a lot of single player RPGs I've played. Nothing really surprised you. Discover something cool 2 to 7 xp. Kill a mob, 5 to 15. Finish a quest 25 to 50 maybe even 100. Bosses and what not a lil' more or less. Such a design can make crafting the experience streamlined. In particular when the goal is to simply get to the top to kill other players anyway.

All of this makes sense to me. And knowing Arenanet, they'll make it work.  

Regardless of anything announced from this point until launch, I will be buying this game. If it's just a graphics update of GW1 with build restrictions and no second profession (which it's not), I will be buying this game. Simply put, I trust the franchise and developers enough to make a one-time payment of $60 for indefinite access to the game. 

The art will be quality, at any rate.

Originally posted by eburn

I think the chart is pretty accurate. I've been waiting for a MMO to show up with the whole '1000 xp' per level design. Worked in a lot of single player RPGs I've played. Nothing really surprised you. Discover something cool 2 to 7 xp. Kill a mob, 5 to 15. Finish a quest 25 to 50 maybe even 100. Bosses and what not a lil' more or less. Such a design can make crafting the experience streamlined. In particular when the goal is to simply get to the top to kill other players anyway.

I agree, it sets the mind to work, how it will be done and sounds promising.

I hope several things are resolved by it eg: Reducing Grind the higher up your level is; allowing lots of different types of content to yield xp ie variety not quantity or exclusivity of xp drops; reducing the sharp division between level tiers; more freedom to level up generally and a wide range of levels all able to contribute in WvWvW.

Guild Wars 2 only continues to impress. I'm glad I won't be spending my time mindlessly making an experience bar move - something that everyone else in the game can do pretty easily, making it a chore more than an achievement.

     Im of the impression that the only reason Anet is bothering with adding lvl's to this game is because only going up to lvl 20 was such an issue to a lot of potential players that they feel they missed out on. It still amazes me that people didnt take a moment to notice that once you hit lvl 20 in GW, you still continue gaining xp and continue to ding when the xp bar hits the end leaving you with yet another skill point to use to gain another new skill. You still "level up" every 20k xp or so. but since it didnt actually make the number over your name ever hit 21 in the process they werent satisfied. Hell by lvl 20 you only had 15% of your available skills possible. You still had to "lvl up" a great deal beyond that point to continue to obtain skills. Of course given the sheer amount of content available to xp from in GW, and the fact that you likely were maybe 50-15%(depending on campaign) of the way through the storyline by the time you hit 20 still left you with lots to enjoy without any repetitive grinding or repeating of content.

     It just seems like there may be a good chance that lvl's will still be similar to the same feel as GW1 in GW2 with the exception that they will let the number over your head continue to count up to 80 so the grind adicts dont hit a low number again and claim that since they hit max lvl, the game must be over and go looking for gear grinds instead of content. You know "content". That thing that almost every mmo player complains about a game not having and call it grindy when it doesnt have enough. Then when a game focuses on content, they complain there isnt enough grind. Then they sit around and complain and moan about how no one makes a game they like and how developers never listen to them.

     I love all these people that try GW and complain about lack of endgame. Yeah its only 80-90% of the game (not counting Hard Mode). If it was any more based on endgame, they wouldnt even have lvl's.

I've played very many MMO's for about 12 or more years and I have to agree that Leveling the second, third, fourth time is a pain after getting one of your characters up there. So I pretty much like the way they are headed with GW 2. I would rather see content and story line then grind grind grind to get more of a story. Most of the MMO's out right now are mostly grindfests to keep players subscribed to LEECH off the players.

The level cap was so low on guildwars 1 was because they didn't want it to be a lvl based game specially for PVP. The game was very very very competitive and they wanted everyone to play against one another based on SKILL of the player not how high the characters level is. Most pvp based mmo's when it comes to pvp usually the higher levels have the greatest advantage over lower players especially if a player had just bought the game and wish to compete but it'll take some time to catch up just to compete with the other players that have had the game longer.

The thing that most people complained about with gw1 and why they left was because of the nerfs. People don't like change, Perhaps a majority of people don't know how to adapt to changes and so forth. Also it was the instancing for me. I hated not being able to run around in a giant world seeing others run by or probibly saving someone along the way that you happen to pass that have around 10 mobs attacking him/her or maybe even being pked by another player or hell you could even decide to pk that person. I think that would be alot of fun and thats where alot of the fun is at for me at least for mmos. It gets lonely specially when you play the game alot by yourself because no one is around where your at or no one is doing that certain mission.

I'm excited about the game i wish it was out already i've been waiting for awhile since eye of the north for it to come out lol. I trust the developers and I know they are going to astonish gamers with their crazy ideas and their work.

The only way you can actually understand this idea is if you actually played the game, for those who are giving up on GW2 merely because of the level cap, I'd say that's a silly reason to give up on it. With all the things they are putting into the game, I'd like to believe you'd hit lvl 80 before you even knew what happened. If I were you I'd wait for feedback on what's what when the game comes out.

meh, it's time we eschewed the archaic level system

Originally posted by Nailzzz

     Im of the impression that the only reason Anet is bothering with adding lvl's to this game is because only going up to lvl 20 was such an issue to a lot of potential players that they feel they missed out on.

...

[End-game] Yeah its only 80-90% of the game (not counting Hard Mode). If it was any more based on endgame, they wouldnt even have lvl's.

I think you might be on the money:

Progress:

- LA : In the first GW character progression was very fast if one were to compare it to a classic MMO. However, as the maximum level in GW is not an end in itself, this was not a problem. How will character progression in GW2 be concretely implemented? Will it be via a conventional system of levels and experience, or did you find something more innovative?

Eric Flannum: Much like the first game, Guild Wars 2 will feature a system of levels and experience. Although early in the development process we played around with some alternate ideas, we felt that experience points and levels were the way to go. Given all of the other areas in which we are taking players out of their “MMO comfort zone,” we thought it best to go with something that was familiar and easy to understand. Even with the standard experience and levels system, progression in Guild Wars 2 is still much faster than other MMOs, even though we’ve raised the level cap substantially. We still don’t regard reaching maximum level as the end of the game, and we’ll be providing players with a lot of things to do once they hit the level cap.

Originally posted by sadeyx

oh dear, this doesnt sound good.

People like leveling, so knowing that level 1-2 is going to be just as long as 79-80 means that yet again, leveling in guildwars means nothing, its not going to feel like an acheivment.

 

 lol /played

I'm geeked.

Therefore I am.

That's all I need to know that I'll have my paws on a copy of Guild Wars 2.

Originally posted by fansede

Well, when you take out the subscription based model out of the equation, this makes sense. No single player games cares if you finish the game in a day or 3 months. You bought the box, end of sale.

Keeping the interest in the game so future expansions can be sold will be the key

Yea I'd say your spot on there.  I'm really interested in experiencing their leveling scheme and can't wait to see how it impacts my game play. 

level 1 - 2 in wow takes about 20 seconds.

level 79-80 in wow takes about 6 hours+.

Chart is right.

Finally a game that focuses on other things that leveling...

Crafting is going to be so much fun!

actually,  this type of non lvl based system works.  its known to most people as FPS style.  in most fps there is no real achievement except in pure kill number and better weapons.  true better lvl better weapon but  lvling in fps's is sort of common place with prestiges and what not so thats not what the focus is on.  the focus goes back to skill and content. 

this will be seen in guild wars 2 with new skills that have to be hunted out and new skill trees made.  it makes it more like an fps where skill and precison are involved and less based on this player has no life and plays 22 hours a day against the casual players.

Originally posted by PhelimReagh

I guess I'm too old-fashioned from my Pen and Paper D&D days, where gaining a level was huge and exciting. In thiose days, the next level would take weeks or months. Leveling was pretty much the point back then, and it was exciting. This "rush to end" game is not my bag. That's why I quit WoW with a bunch of 80s. End-game was "work".

 

I think there are just camps of people want "end-game" right away, and then there are people that like to play RPGs with other people. It appears that GW2 is going for the instant-end-game crowd. Those, those are not my kind of people. So it stands to reason that GW2 is not going to be my kind of game. Crap. It was atop my list. I thought it was going to be the game I was looking for.

 

Guess I'll be hopping on the LotRO F2P when it comes along instead.

  Leveling in GW1 was at first exiting and I have to admit then when I hit 20 there was a letdown...untill I realized that this is where the 'real' game starts.

  Being max (20) was not even close to the power a player would have if they spent a little time to see what would make them stronger. Eq differences for different situations, gaining skills..gotta have Elites! Ahhh, and skill!  It counted!!!  

 In GW1 a team of new 20s wouldn't stand a chance of a snowball in hell agains 20s who had gone on to gain skills and at least 4 weapon sets for different opponents. Not an overnight task!

 Btw, the time to reach 80 is ( according to the dev team about 160 hours plus. I plan to take longer and savor all I can on the way!.

 I agree that leveling is not an achievment..it is little more than time invested.  My pref is to be able to go where I choose, knowing I am ready.

Sweet! another Gary Gygax ism gotten rid of !!    I am so sick of the D&D Legacy finding its way into every game.

maple story anyone? lvl 199 -> 200 is only a little over 2 billion XP...

Originally posted by tikt4ever

maple story anyone? lvl 199 -> 200 is only a little over 2 billion XP...

 Now what would be killer is if level 1 ---> 2 is also a little over 2 billion XP

;-P

I'm not a huge fan of leveling, to be honest. It's a restrictive system that needs to be done away with. I think that more emphasis should be placed on story and adventure and not gathering XP. Leveling should always be secondary and not the main driving force in the game. It is my belief that ANet is trying to accomplish this and I hope that they succeed.

It seems like they are trying to stray away from the flock of WoW-clones and do something different with GW2 and I can't wait to see what they've come up with. I'm getting tired of the same WoW-esque formula that most MMOs use. Hopefully GW2 will be different.

Originally posted by heartless

I'm not a huge fan of leveling, to be honest. It's a restrictive system that needs to be done away with. I think that more emphasis should be placed on story and adventure and not gathering XP. Leveling should always be secondary and not the main driving force in the game. It is my belief that ANet is trying to accomplish this and I hope that they succeed.

It seems like they are trying to stray away from the flock of WoW-clones and do something different with GW2 and I can't wait to see what they've come up with. I'm getting tired of the same WoW-esque formula that most MMOs use. Hopefully GW2 will be different.

 

   Well said!!!   I to hope the very different approach to levels,skills and a great storylineand being able to 'roll' your own story  will be as good as it looks.

  Just picked up 'Ghosts of Ascalon' the first of 3 books telling the story of the 250 years that have elapsed since the original GW story.  Great read and while it will be very helpful for anyone not familiar with he original GW it is a treat for anyone that played GW!

When I reached level 20 in GW1 I felt like there was nothing left to play for, I had max equipment and the story didn't keep me playing.

I hope cooking is one of the crafting things :)

w8 that's just me :(

Originally posted by CheesePlant

When I reached level 20 in GW1 I felt like there was nothing left to play for, I had max equipment and the story didn't keep me playing.

 

I still did the story, but yeah, I felt like: "I don't have anything to achieve. No more useful xp. What is my existance?"

lol maybe not that dramatic. but I still felt like there wasn't too much to accomplish except for the stories.

Originally posted by Dwarfish

Btw, the time to reach 80 is ( according to the dev team about 160 hours plus. I plan to take longer and savor all I can on the way!.

 

Indeed! :D

level 80s should be the absolute pros. The people that when you see one, you can think: "These are the best of the best. They know the game. They are the best players to seek advice from. I 'should' 'respect' them."

only if it were like that :(

they'd have to adjust the xp per level :o

people who complain at GW1's fast leveling, try to be number 1 in PvP then.

Originally posted by Ludichris1

level 80s should be the absolute pros. The people that when you see one, you can think: "These are the best of the best. They know the game. They are the best players to seek advice from. I 'should' 'respect' them."

 

only if it were like that :(

they'd have to adjust the xp per level :o

 

   Your comment that lev 80s should be the absolute pros just doesn't play out in an MMO.

 There are as many clueless people at max level as mid levels.  Levels are a marker for time invested.

 In GW1 lev 20 was where the game started!  A better marker for how 'good' a player was were the titles. Vanquishing areas in hard mode, master level in all campaigns..both reg and hard mode, percent explored, it goes on...more than 30 titles available!

 A HUGE indicator  was in GvG PVP matches, ( there were many other 'arenas requiring fewer people) This  was the real marker for the best of the best.

  Personaly I get bored just leveling for the sake of leveling. If there is a storyline...a good one, I'm there!.

  Last but not least there was something going on every weekend.  There were also huge events on a regular basis. These events still draw players who have, for the most part, left the game. They are that good...and GASP!  fun.