Wait, what?

I'm completely lost now. Why would they sue a fansite?

I dont understand. Can someone break it down to stupid level for me...........

Do they really want to kill off whatever community is left of this game? they have no idea how many players they are going to piss off with this. More players use Warhammer alliance compared to official forums.

Originally posted by Shastra

Do they really want to kill off whatever community is left of this game? they have no idea how many players they are going to piss off with this. More players use Warhammer alliance compared to official forums.

Luck has nothing to do with this game's failure.

Remember Games Workshop is not Mythic.   It is Games Workshop suing.

A fansite created by fans who like the Warhammer universe are going to get slapped about by Games Workshop which seemingly want to spoil their reputation...?

This'll get dropped once they realise how silly they're being...

they are suing Curse, since they are the "new" owners of the website (and are making money out of it) It stopped being a normal fansite quite some time ago.

Originally posted by Shastra

Do they really want to kill off whatever community is left of this game? they have no idea how many players they are going to piss off with this. More players use Warhammer alliance compared to official forums.

 Games Workshop doesnt care about the WAR MMO anymore, thats Mythics thing, not theirs. Games workshop sold Mythic the licenseing or whatever to make the MMO, this is completely unrelated (well not completely, but its more related to the entire Warhammer IP, not the MMO itself).

And yeah this seems pretty f-ing ridiculous to me. If this is allowed, then really every company out there could just go around suing every fansite ever created because fo things like them using the trademarked name anywhere in it. I lol'ed at the "warhammer allience making people think the site is in some sort of alliance with games workshop" portion of it. If thats what they get when going to the site, they need some new employees. The average person knows the difference between official sites, and fan / information / reference sites.

I hope the judge laughs in their faces.

Forum messages are not "contact links" in my book. An email address, physical address or other contact information would be the way to go. And in looking over their site, there are NO links that say "contact" anywhere on the front page.

In looking at GW's IP policies (easily found on their website), the major portion of the suit is relating to the name of the website (Warhammeralliance.com) which is prohibited by GW's IP use policy. If the page was named something else with a subtitle of "Warhammer Alliance", my guess is that GW would not have done anything.

However, I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv.

I wish it were possible for these companies to sue any site that posted walkthroughs, cheats or mods that trivialized the content of their games. Suddenly cheating at games, and using walkthroughs is as much cheating as using hack programs, has become acceptable and it's doing nothing but hurting these companies.

Games Workshop has long had a history of near fascist like protection of their IP and copyright. They have shut down NUMEROUS fansites for their games over the years, not just for the video games, but the miniature games as well. They have always kind of been the Microsoft of the gaming industry, imo.

Now you know why I stopped dealing with Games Workshop directly as a retailer. They are a bunch of snooty morons with their heads rammed up their own butts. I dealt with them for 5 years before I finally said screw it and went through a third party distributor... If their stupid games didn't sell so well I would have just dropped them completely. I would not be surprised one bit if this was not a "mistake" at all, nor would I be surprised if they didn't drop this lawsuit...

Go Games Workshop, go!

I've always felt that Curse are a bunch of greedy crooks with shady business practices. I hold no sympathy for them if they're getting slapped around legally. I wouldn't shed a tear if their whole network went under.

Whether or not GW is being overzealous about their IP, I don't really have an opinion. Frankly, though, it's their right to control the use of their IP. 

Originally posted by Blurr

I've always felt that Curse are a bunch of greedy crooks with shady business practices. I hold no sympathy for them if they're getting slapped around legally. I wouldn't shed a tear if their whole network went under.

Whether or not GW is being overzealous about their IP, I don't really have an opinion. Frankly, though, it's their right to control the use of their IP. 

That's harsh, I know most people will sob uncontrollably if anything happens to them.

Sounds like they want to use the domain name.

-tal

Brif why should anyone sob about Curse?  98% of the Keyloggers that are planted in in their mods are placed their by them, I have heard Blizzard devs say time and again that Curse is the main pipeline to hacked accounts. It is one of the reasons that they are implementing their own mod delivery system that checks for Trojans.

Really? Blizzard have said in print, 'offically' that Curse is the main pipeline for hacked accounts?

Originally posted by jotull

Brif why should anyone sob about Curse?  98% of the Keyloggers that are planted in in their mods are placed their by them, I have heard Blizzard devs say time and again that Curse is the main pipeline to hacked accounts. It is one of the reasons that they are implementing their own mod delivery system that checks for Trojans.

 

wait. . .what?

[Citation Needed]

Originally posted by jotull

Brif why should anyone sob about Curse?  98% of the Keyloggers that are planted in in their mods are placed their by them, I have heard Blizzard devs say time and again that Curse is the main pipeline to hacked accounts. It is one of the reasons that they are implementing their own mod delivery system that checks for Trojans.

I guess you've never heard of sarcasm.

It's the subtlety Brif...never quite could grasp it :P

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

I'm completely lost now. Why would they sue a fansite?

Because Curse/Warhammer Alliance are making money off the Warhammer brand name through their premuim subscription service and advertising links and Games Workshop doesn't like that sort of thing.

There are three rules to Games Workshop:

1st: Games Workshop hates you.

2nd: Games Workshop does not care about you.

3rd: Games Workshop could give a f*ck.

...but I still play the TT...

=(

You do not build a successful MMO by attacking your own community like this. Just ask Blizzard. 

BTW this company is the reason Blizzard blatantly ripped off Warhammer in the 90s. Blizzard was interested in making an RTS game based on the Warhammer franchise and these guys basically said "F*** off".

Originally posted by Selenica

You do not build a successful MMO by attacking your own community like this. Just ask Blizzard. 

BTW this company is the reason Blizzard blatantly ripped off Warhammer in the 90s. Blizzard was interested in making an RTS game based on the Warhammer franchise and these guys basically said "F*** off".

 Heh, youd think they would have learned a little from that. They missed out on a buttfkload of money.

I lol'd?

Originally posted by jybgess

I dont understand. Can someone break it down to stupid level for me...........

From what I gathered Curse is making money off the fansite and that is 'against the rules' for fansites.  On a more personal note, they may want the domain name for future projects but that's just a guess.

Originally posted by Talthanys

Sounds like they want to use the domain name.

-tal

 Yes this, from the PDF:

B. Defendants' Use of the Trademark WARHAMMER ALLIANCE

and the Domain Name warhammeralliance.com

18. Upon information and belief, sometime in or about 2009 Defendants acquired the

Internet domain name warhammeralliance.com.

19. Defendants' domain name registration fails to provide accurate or complete

“whois” information for the subject domain name, and includes no contact information, but,

rather, is registered anonymously through an entity called “Domains By Proxy.” Upon

information and belief, said registration is maintained anonymously to conceal the identities of

Defendants.

20. Upon information and belief, Defendants knowingly provided incomplete or

materially false contact information in maintaining the registration for the

warhammeralliance.com domain name.

21. Defendants host a website at the URL warhammeralliance.com, which website

prominently displays the name and mark WARHAMMER ALLIANCE.

22. Defendants’ website at the URL warhammeralliance.com displays HTML links

featuring banner advertisements, and, upon information and belief, when Internet users click on

one or more of the displayed HTML advertisements at the warhammeralliance.com website,

Defendants receive payment from one or more advertisers, search engines, or affiliate programs.

23. Upon information and belief, many consumers of Plaintiffs’ WARHAMMER

products and services are members of and users of Defendants’ website, including many such

members and users in the State of Maryland.

24. On March 11, 2008, Defendant Quantam Equity applied to register the trade name

CURSE and the logo used by Defendants on the Warhammeralliance.com website.

25. Upon information and belief, Quantam Equity is affiliated with Defendants Curse

and Thieblot and is complicit with them in the conduct complained of herein.

26. The domain name warhammeralliance.com and the mark WARHAMMER

ALLIANCE incorporate in their entirety Plaintiff’s WARHAMMER trademark.

27. The domain name warhammeralliance.com and the mark WARHAMMER

ALLIANCE itself literally states and implies that Defendants and their business are in an

“alliance” with Plaintiff and its products and services offered under the WARHAMMER Marks.

----------------------------------------------------------

Every possible slating angle is used. They want the domain name bad.

---

Originally posted by Shoju

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
I'm completely lost now. Why would they sue a fansite?

---

Because Curse/Warhammer Alliance are making money off the Warhammer brand name through their premuim subscription service and advertising links and Games Workshop doesn't like that sort of thing.

---

Hm ya, after I made my post I went to WarhammerAlliance itself and read the thread. A lot of people just said what you said, and that makes a lot of sense.

If that is indeed the case, then by all means, sue away.

I've always disliked Curse for buying up fansites and turning them from...well...fansites...into businesses.

Can't say I'll QQ too hard if I see them get their due comeuppance.

It's a shame WAR's community is going to get caught in the crossfire though.

Maybe this is the first step in GW to rescure their I.P, shutting down the sites and finally the game and award it to another company...

Who's next? THQ For using WH40k?

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

---

Originally posted by Shoju

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
I'm completely lost now. Why would they sue a fansite?

---

Because Curse/Warhammer Alliance are making money off the Warhammer brand name through their premuim subscription service and advertising links and Games Workshop doesn't like that sort of thing.

---

Hm ya, after I made my post I went to WarhammerAlliance itself and read the thread. A lot of people just said what you said, and that makes a lot of sense.

If that is indeed the case, then by all means, sue away.

I've always disliked Curse for buying up fansites and turning them from...well...fansites...into businesses.

Can't say I'll QQ too hard if I see them get their due comeuppance.

It's a shame WAR's community is going to get caught in the crossfire though.

My thoughts as well

Originally posted by GamerAeon

Who's next? THQ For using WH40k?

why? thq is legally paying for the license to use the wh40k brand

Most of you guys are new to Games-workshop right... They are very rabid when it comes to people using the warhammer name without proper "thumbs up" from GW. They have shut down fansites before andin all honesty they have the right to atleast force a change of name. And unlike THQ Curse i am sure have no licens deal with GW to use the Warhammer brand/name.

Its pretty common knowledge that GW have a history of pursuing IP complaints, most recently because of the financial troubles they got into (the store products would probably sell better if the prices didnt keep going north but thats another story)

The irony here is that if you look through any GW background fluff its full or stuff taken from other sources.....

Games Workshop are very, very, VERY unforgiving when it comes to their IPs. And considering how they have been stung before (WAR was not the first Warhammer MMO, btw), I don't really blame them. They've had to fight numerous copyright infringements in their history, such as a blatant rip-off abotu 10 years ago when a video game basically copied one of their book covers for a PC game. Where do you think a lot of the design style in Warcraft comes from?

I don't necessarily agree with all of their business practises, but they are, after all, a business. One that they must push forward in a very difficult market: hobby gaming. They are a little heavy-handed in my opinion. For example, even internet stores that legitamately sell their products thrid-party, are not allowed to use their own website's product images. They lack their own forums, etc etc.

But it's a business after all. If someone was messing around with your IP name, or was profitting from your IP, I bet all of you would do the same. Whatever it takes to protect your creation.

Some of the comments here are a bit silly. GW aren't suing Mythic, so why would they sue THQ?! You can't blame GW for doing this. Even if you don't agree, they're doing what they think is necessary to protect their business. And love or hate them, after 30 years, they are still the leading company when it comes to miniature gaming.

Oops, few typos and bad grammar up there..

I'm with GW.  Blizzard STOLE almost all of it's ideas from GW games.  Where's the outcry over that?  The only reason people played warcraft is because there was no Warhammer RTS and the only reason why anyone would deny it is because they are Blizzard fanboys who weren't even born when Warhammer was created.  If you knew anything about GW or Warhammer you'd know that the name "Warhammer Alliance"  Is trademarked and has been for years.  Whatever these wow trolls might say out of their own retarded ignorance, war has gained players and wow has lost players.  Stfu and play the ENDLESS trial before talking shit about things you know nothing about.

considering Warhammer IP "borrowed" just about everything from anything worth of remembering, i'd say this is silly as silly gets.

Originally posted by spinner_vis

considering Warhammer IP "borrowed" just about everything from anything worth of remembering, i'd say this is silly as silly gets.

Erm..yes.. other sources like.. uh..Mythology! Clearly the old gods should sue GW for that.

Sure they didnt invent orcs nor elves, and  quite some was simillar to dungeons and dragons, but GW world is vastly different from Wizards creations and personality of the races is what distincts it from other fantasy settings.

The law suite form my understanding of actually reading through the pdf is mostly about using the franchise name on a site that makes profit of it, so the complaint is perfectly valid and well within their rights.

They are only doing this because WAR is dying and running out of money.

Originally posted by Sauronas

I'm with GW.  Blizzard STOLE almost all of it's ideas from GW games.  Where's the outcry over that?  The only reason people played warcraft is because there was no Warhammer RTS and the only reason why anyone would deny it is because they are Blizzard fanboys who weren't even born when Warhammer was created.  If you knew anything about GW or Warhammer you'd know that the name "Warhammer Alliance"  Is trademarked and has been for years.  Whatever these wow trolls might say out of their own retarded ignorance, war has gained players and wow has lost players.  Stfu and play the ENDLESS trial before talking shit about things you know nothing about.

 People don't give a shit where companies get their ideas. They played Warcraft because it's a good game. Most of the things Warhammer was built on came from other sources anyway, just like everything else. Let me know when Warhammer gets to twelve million subscriptions or even one million subscriptions and you can start talking about  Warhammer numbers. I play the endless trial and it's beer and pretzels just like their miniatures game. There's nothing special there.

In case you aven't noticed Blizzard doesn't have a dog in this fight.

Actually Blizzard may have a dog in this fight there has been a persistant rumor that Redpheonix is either working for or compensated by Blizzard.

No real need for tinfoil hats... As said it is all about a company not being GW making money of GW IP's. Blizzard have the same rules, as does pretty much every company out there.

People who believe this is a legitimate law suite are totally mad as far as I am concerned. It may well be within the bounds of the law for GW to try to protect the credibility of their IP, but in this case they are not doing that. Curse will approach this from several directions but they'll probably just go with this line:

Curse does not make profits off the Warhammer IP. Curse makes profits from offering services related to - but not directly based on - various IPs, such as addon download facilities, developer trackers, forum platforms and other such things; the use of these service in relation to the Warhammer IP are NOT restricted by NOT have a Curse Subscription. The Curse Subscription is implemented purely so that Curse may continue to provide unrestricted access to the services that they offer, and improve those services over time. Those profits are in no way based on the sale of restricted assets related to any of the IPs they provide services for (and that is the TRUTH). The art assets on the site are not owned by Games Workshop and have not been lifted from any material associated with Games Workshop. The use of the name, "Warhammer Alliance," is legitimate as the site provides AS IS services for Warhammer Online and the greater Warhammer franchise; the claim that the website is squatting is illegitimate due to the fact that relevant services are provided.

Sadly the whole, "making money," bit is a tad grey; the best Curse can hope for is that they make it not financially viable for GW to pursue them in a long-term Court Case, or that they can force GW into losing confidence in their case and reaching some kind of mutually beneficial out of court settlement (which is what is likely to happen).

Screw Games Workshop, bunch of assholes.

Its their right to sue, so whats the matter?

Also whoever says GW sues often etc. did any of you know any game from Blizzard besides the lost vikings? Every Blizzard game is a collection of stolen ideas, mostly from GW.

Now GW is strugling while Blizzard doesnt know where to put the money (well a lot goes to lawyers sueing private people writing compendiums for WoW etc.)

The warhammer universe is the greatest fantasy and scifi world out there, GW should get much more money to expand that universe.

because those that files suit own everything related to war not warhammer warammer just have a licence that can be ended when contract is finished .warhammer online isnt a big franchise compared to the whole warhammer franchise compared to some belief.dont know what really happened but we ll know soon!

Originally posted by Aethaeryn

Remember Games Workshop is not Mythic.   It is Games Workshop suing.

yep game workshop have the warhammer franchise and its a big monster way bigger then the puny warhammer online from myhtic(licenced)

Originally posted by Polyjean

Its their right to sue, so whats the matter?

Also whoever says GW sues often etc. did any of you know any game from Blizzard besides the lost vikings? Every Blizzard game is a collection of stolen ideas, mostly from GW.

Now GW is strugling while Blizzard doesnt know where to put the money (well a lot goes to lawyers sueing private people writing compendiums for WoW etc.)

 

The warhammer universe is the greatest fantasy and scifi world out there, GW should get much more money to expand that universe.

 

 Blizzard also stole the colour blue and the letter "B".  Also what ever happened solomons gold? and the dinosaurs?

That site was launched back in 2005, what's the point of suing them now ?  I dont see how they can win this, it doesnt make any sense.

You seem to think that Polyjean is lying based on the tone of your post. Warcraft is generally stolen from Warhammer and Starcraft from Warhammer 40k. This is basically common knowledge.

This is the "devil's spinning coin" scenario. As long as the coin remains spinning on its edge (which is best for both parties), both are winners as EA maintains a good fan base and slightly growing community through Curse's efforts and Curse continues to offer a premier location for cybernauts to get their latest info about the game. If the coin stops spinning, heads or tails, they both lose.

The best thing for EA to do here was correct any flaws in the relationship with Curse (and other fansites) and maybe even solidify the fansite as one of their recommended "goto" community sites. Anything else just gives the devil opportunity to watch the coin drop... and laugh.

+1 on the blacklist

/live goes on and i vote whit my wallet

This is bullshit. Warhammer Alliance did nothing but help WAR. If anything they steered thousands of players to this game!

Originally posted by Zyllos

There are three rules to Games Workshop:

1st: Games Workshop hates you.

2nd: Games Workshop does not care about you.

3rd: Games Workshop could give a f*ck.

...but I still play the TT...

=(

Don't forget the common spelling:  Game$ Work$hop.

They pretty much have always been the Microsoft of tabletop gaming..

Man I just lol'ed the entire way through that article! 

I work in the home audio industry, and this suit bears a striking resemblance to a company most people know called Monster Cable. 

Monster Cable sues anyone and everyone who tries to use the word "Monster" in the name of their business.   If you go to monster.com (you know... the job hunting website), scroll down to the bottom of the page.  You'll see a link that says "Looking for Monster Cable?"  That link was put in place thanks to a legal settlement between monster.com and Monster Cable.  They have also sued Monster energy drinks and a few other big brands... but now are focusing on tiny places...

Most recently, Monster Cable sued a small family owned chain of mini-golf courses on the east coast, claiming trademark infringement.   How ANYONE could confuse a mini-golf course with audio/video cables is beyond me... I think the case is being settled out of court simply because the mini-golf owners do not have the money to afford a legal battle (which is the outcome of most of Monster Cable's frivolous suits).

The funny thing is people are treating GW like they are as bad as Activision, which in AV's case it's all about the money, whereas with GW it's ALL about the IP.

One misconseption thats common when it comes to Games Workshop is that they like other companies are sitting on a pile of money, it's kinda true in a way but far far from the Mircosoft/Activision/Sony amounts - funny thing is about 2/3 years ago GW was close to going under, so going about saying 'they are the mircosoft/activision of TT gaming', at times we wish it was then they would have made the games themselfs as they would have had the money to throw away at those risks, but again all it's stating is that it's just money grabing which is the core of the misconseption as it's not about money, it's about protecting the IP - thats all they have really, if that got comprimised then the whole busness would go under.

The WA thing is because as people have stated GW are highly protective of the IP with the Blizzard 'ripoff' cases iirc GW tired to get them in court at least 5 times over it but Blizzard had canged it just enough to riggle out of it - WA/Curse are basically not 'playing by the rules' when it comes to GW's 'fansites' they are ment to be NON-PROFIT, and Curse is heavily pushing not only the Curse client but all the premiums the site has to offer plus trying to push themselfs into 'the offical site' status - GW don't just got to court on a wimm like that they've proply attempted to at least talk with the owners since the site appreared lots of times and it's been out a LONG time now so this is the last option to get Curse to 'complay' with GW's rules regrauding 'fansites'.

I'll be the first to agree with most people that WA did help EA and Mythic with WAR - however the last thing you should do is fk with the IP owner say 'Game$ Wor$hop the money grabbers' as much as you want but it's no different if someone made a 'fansite' of any other IP then asked you for money for 'premiums' for it

Good lord, with Games Workshop, it HAS ALWAYS been all about the money.  Their business practices have proven that time and again.

In the tabletop gaming world, they are indeed the Microsoft/Activision/EA of that industry.  The fact that the industry as a whole involves a lot less money than the computer gaming industry is just a matter of degree.  Games Workshop's mentality has been every bit as bad.

Its not that they are using the name, its that they are making a lot of money off of the warhammer name which Games workshop owns.  They made 3 million in revenue last year off of Warcraft and Warhammer. I know if I owned a copyright and someone was making that much off of my namebrand then hell yea I would sue.  This isnt a case of a big company going after a fansite. Curse is a multi million dollar company who is making money off of the Warhammer namebrand. Curse also promotes itself as a fansite which is misleading. Fansite implies it is a website run by fans and its only intent is to promote the game and not to profit off of said game. Honestly Blizzard could sue them for the same thing if they chose to do so.

For sitation purposes:

(3 million in revenue last year) - http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/22/curse-gaming/

(multi million dollar company ) - http://www.crunchbase.com/company/curse (funding: $11 million)

Originally posted by Polyjean

Its their right to sue, so whats the matter?

Also whoever says GW sues often etc. did any of you know any game from Blizzard besides the lost vikings? Every Blizzard game is a collection of stolen ideas, mostly from GW.

Now GW is strugling while Blizzard doesnt know where to put the money (well a lot goes to lawyers sueing private people writing compendiums for WoW etc.)

 

The warhammer universe is the greatest fantasy and scifi world out there, GW should get much more money to expand that universe.

 

 I'm gonna hazzard a guess that the folks controlling the Tolkien estate would like to have a few polite legal words with GW concerning the uniqueness and originality of their IP.

Originally posted by jotull

Actually Blizzard may have a dog in this fight there has been a persistant rumor that Redpheonix is either working for or compensated by Blizzard.

Today as I sifted through the news related to this (not surprising since I used to be Site Manager at Warhammer Alliance) I came upon this post, linked to me from folks scratching their heads, just as I am now.

I'm unsure of how serious the poster was putting this up, but just in case people might do so mistakenly, that rumor is completely false. I have not been employed nor currently am employed with Blizzard - not when I was running Warhammer Alliance, and not now. As interesting as it might seem that MMO companies employ "wetworks" divisions filled with folks supposedly loyal to another title to use as "dogs in a fight", it's just not true, at least as far as I'm concerned.

As for the suit? If you look in the thread, there's an informative post from the original owner of Warhammer Alliance, Shelby "Garthilk" Cardozo:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4666095&postcount=51

As always though, people are free to come up with their own opinions. I just thought I'd register to clear up stuff related to me. No idea how this "persistent rumor" got started at all.

BOOOOOOOOOOOO

JUST BOO TO GAMES FAGSHOP!

BOOOOOOOOOOOO!

They are such control freaks with their goofy IP. They would have a lawsuit out on anyone that is making money off of their IP without first giving them a pound of flesh.

TBT: A fan-based movie was made about the inquisitors named Damnatus and they blocked it the moment before it was ready to be released. 

GW, you are all sorts of fail.

AND YES, I AM YELLING: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

The amount of ignorance in this thread is amazing but I blame the person who wrote this article by placing a misleading title. It's not GW sueing Warhammer Alliance. It's GW sueing CUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSEEE FFS. Why are people trying to make GW look like baby killers?

I hope you all know that WA is not a fansite anymore. It used to be a year or two ago till curse bought the site from the owner. Now it's a site part of a commercial company who doesn't have a intrest in a making a fan anything site they are just there to make money off over hyped  mmo's. Why do you think they don't make / buy sites for other mmos? Because they don't thave money behind them and they know if they go over board that this sueing thing will happen more often.

Please correct the title to.

"Games Workshop is sueing Curse Inc." -_-

and stop making curse look like a poor innocent victim. It sucks that WA is caught in cross fire but the only person to blame for that is Curse.

Originally posted by Rohn

Good lord, with Games Workshop, it HAS ALWAYS been all about the money.  Their business practices have proven that time and again.

In the tabletop gaming world, they are indeed the Microsoft/Activision/EA of that industry.  The fact that the industry as a whole involves a lot less money than the computer gaming industry is just a matter of degree.  Games Workshop's mentality has been every bit as bad.

 

Of course its about the money... Have you ever heard of a successful business that lets any potential source of revenue out of their hands?  GW is a corporation, they dont need some third party making use of their IP and not paying a dime to them, it only makes sense for them to sue for their own name. I say sue curse for every dime they can.

Originally posted by Aguitha

That site was launched back in 2005, what's the point of suing them now ?  I dont see how they can win this, it doesnt make any sense.

In 2005 it was a fansite and as from 2009 it was owned by Curse.com which is a company earning money from a registered trade mark which is Warhammer.

Curse deserves all the flak in their ass because they are the Palpatine of gaming sites.They have done more harm to community gaming site and MMO players than people can't imagine.They want to have control over all the mods for any possible successful MMO.The sheeps will flock to them,the sheeps will love them and the sheeps will give them money.

I don`t support and I won't shed a tear for them.

Games Workshop has always been one of  the most bass ackwards companies I've ever come across. Their entire mentality is obnoxious.

I agree with fiontar.

I've seen multiple cases of GW doing stuff like this over the last few years.

Originally posted by expresso

Originally posted by Polyjean

Its their right to sue, so whats the matter?

Also whoever says GW sues often etc. did any of you know any game from Blizzard besides the lost vikings? Every Blizzard game is a collection of stolen ideas, mostly from GW.

Now GW is strugling while Blizzard doesnt know where to put the money (well a lot goes to lawyers sueing private people writing compendiums for WoW etc.)

 

The warhammer universe is the greatest fantasy and scifi world out there, GW should get much more money to expand that universe.

 

 Blizzard also stole the colour blue and the letter "B".  Also what ever happened solomons gold? and the dinosaurs?

And what about Scarecrow's brain?

---

Originally posted by Sauronas
I'm with GW.  Blizzard STOLE almost all of it's ideas from GW games.  Where's the outcry over that?  

---

There is none, because ideas cannot be copyrighted. There is no such thing as owning an idea, only a specific implementation of it.

---

Stfu and play the ENDLESS trial before talking shit about things you know nothing about.

---

Sound advice.

lol! some get their fact mixed up!gw is and formost very popular in their own field but they are not and never wanted to be game dev

that being said their franchise is stil one of the top in their field why do you think everybody want to be linked with war

because if they make it to the expectation of the real war reader and table top player etc the whole nine yard!they have very tengible chance of being the next wow big guns !so gw knows this they would be silly letting it go when they are sitting on top of a gold mine at worst right now, and possibility that it transform in a diamond mine! if a game dev does its job proper !

its not like the lore will miss they got stuff to do 10 everquest 1, 16 expension lol!

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

They are only doing this because WAR is dying and running out of money.

Why would GW give two cents on how much WAR makes? They get paid either way....

The argument about the anonymous registration is kinda weak cause Curse will dodge it by saying that they actually registered to Goddady which in turn offered them "protection from spammers"... That's what "domains by proxy" claims to be.

On the next round GW will hit back with the absence of contact information on the website and Curse will dodge once again with what the original owner of WHA said just above, that not only they knew about WHA but had approved on a disclaimer... Then Curse will counterattack with the argument that GW doesn't even have a fansite on their own about the specific IP so how could it considered competition?

I don't know... i am all with GW on this but it looks a tough battle

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

They are only doing this because WAR is dying and running out of money.

Why would GW give two cents on how much WAR makes? They get paid either way....

Mostly because the bulk of posters on this forum have no clue how licensing, etc, works -- or, indeed, any understanding of economics whatsoever. (Reminds me of the mid-1990s, when people on USENET... remember that?... were convinced Wizards of the Coast somehow got a cut of every after-market sale of Magic:The Gathering cards.)

Basically, on this forum, whoever you hate the most is always behind anything bad, and the reason is always because "They're greedy!", even if there's no possible way they could be making money on the deal.

This has, as some of the smarter folks here have correctly noted, nothing whatsoever to do with WAR and how much money it does or doesn't make. It is, however, a classic example of corporate abuse of trademark laws. Frankly, they do not have a case, but it's likely the owners of the warhammeralliance domain don't have the money or time to defend themselves. This is the same tactic which has been used, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, to shut down sites which criticize a corporation, such as "kmartsucks.com" and the like.

it makes a lot of sense.  We aren't talking personal opinion here.  That would just ruin the judicial system.  Warhammer is losing money by Alliance's using their name and logo without buying the rights.  Also, the forums and information they are providing are illegal as well.  It's not an open server, or at least shouldn't be.  If you read the lawsuit you can see that they went around the system to legalize their work.  It boils down to money.  This isn't something that will ruin the game, maybe get some people annoyed, but loyal players will come back.  It will give Warhammer more money.  Something they need to get a few more creative thinkers on their staff.

Its very simple, and I don't blame Workshop one bit. Curse.com is making money off the Warhammer name, and not paying their dues to Workshop. Of course, its odd, because zam networks has been charging a sub fee for years. I don't know if they pay these MMOs or what. I am now curious about why zam and other websites can charge a sub fee, and not be sued.

Of course, how much money they could possibly be making from the Warhammer name has to be close to nothing, and I would imagine curse.com will settle this.

Originally posted by jotull

Brif why should anyone sob about Curse?  98% of the Keyloggers that are planted in in their mods are placed their by them, I have heard Blizzard devs say time and again that Curse is the main pipeline to hacked accounts. It is one of the reasons that they are implementing their own mod delivery system that checks for Trojans.

 

And yet not a single person, including yourself, has brought forth any proof of this and really need to stop spreading these rumors.  I work as a moderator over on their site, as well as an addon author with projects hosted there.  I have yet to see anything adding trojans to my files (or anyone else's for that matter).  The most that is ever added to a mod is by the client for version checking to the .toc file.  I've even decompiled the client itself and have found nothing that adds a trojan.

Your statement has no base, no reference and no proof.  I'm also interesting in this blue post by Blizz backing up your claim that they've reported Curse as the primary trojan distribution center.  Wait, there isn't one?  That's what I thought.  Research your facts before you post nonsense such as this.

Why is it that corporations have decided that no one but them should be allowed to have a domain name? A fan site is something a corporation should be happy to see.

Okay, so the big boys didn't care to create a fan site as good as someone else and that someone else has done well enough at it to even turn a buck... isn't that like saying that people can't collect and trade Barbie Dolls? Oh wait, no that would be more like the buying and trading of accounts... another retarded position of the gaming MMO industry. I guess it would be more like saying there could be no fan sites talking about Barbie Dolls or any other product on the market.

Honestly, what products other than MMO's have so many restrictions placed on the consumers? If I buy a car, I can upgrade it, use the hell out of it, sell it, trade it...  ... and the same goes for guns, ammo, knives, and in some states women... but MMO companies have become so greedy and controlling that it has become pretty disgusting in my humble opinion.

They want you to grind your life away to play their pathetic games, then they release an expansion to make you grind more, and if that doesn't work they release another expansion and add twice the content to draw you back.... to grind more.

I found this article only because I was curious about Warhammer online after not playing it for over a year... I see i still don't care to play it.

I hate to flame, but  next thing we know we will get sued for the used of putting warhammer in posts because they can't profit?!?

I believe that if someone buys a website and pays for it and it happens to contain a part of your company... sueing them (especially if its a fan site) is a silly and a harsh move as far as PR and debunking many people feelings towards them. 

Most likely it will be thrown out... or at very most modified to the courts satisfaction (the website itself).

Seems like a money grubbing kind of tactics. Reviewing their pdf its seems to me this is more about wanting to take it down/take that web url address itself...

I hope this enrages as many warhammer fans such as myself.... to see a company that you enjoy their products going after content that is designed to promote their products...

unfair advantage lol.

killing their gamers trust and love... 

good on GW... while i find them over priced, i do agree with protecting their property.

they got after miniwargaming.com for their use of GW pictures (mwg is now taking fan made pictures to replace the GW ones)

tho mwg is a online retailer for GW model figures soo it makes sense they would get after them.

lets not forget blizzard ripped off GW back in the 90s to make warcraft (it was a IP for warhammer fantasy) so im not suprised they are going after anyone using/selling GW related contect.

fansite or not, making any sort of money off GW products violates GW rights, EA would do it.. blizzard would too.. im sure any model company would as well.. its the reason they have copy right laws and CR their products.

Warhammer Alliance is still forums dedicated to a game called Warhammer Age of Reckoning. The use of the name is in that context is, although I;m not a lawyer and my opinion is not worth more than anyone elses here, that is IMO the very concept of fair use.

You do not need to be a non-profit company run by a nerd living in off cheetos in some damp basement to run a fan site. Curse revenue model does no involve the "use" of material pulled from the GW intellectual property.

Curse makes money off of a premium servive model of an addon management management software promoted on curse.com and banners on their warhammer alliance forums... a 3rd party forums site for the game warhammer age of reckoning. It has nothing to do with RPGs, Miniatures or anything competing with GW activities.

GW doesn't have a foot to stand on... they just wanna shut curse up and drag em in a lawsuit they probably cannot afford. As they say in poker, they are setting them all in, hoping that they fold.

They probably do not get the fact that the name of the forums does not matter... they can call it WAR-Forums.com or warforums.curse.com... or whatever... people are still gonna use it cause it's damn good and better than the official ones.

GW are fucked in the head.

Originally posted by Ngeldu5t

Originally posted by Aguitha

That site was launched back in 2005, what's the point of suing them now ?  I dont see how they can win this, it doesnt make any sense.

In 2005 it was a fansite and as from 2009 it was owned by Curse.com which is a company earning money from a registered trade mark which is Warhammer.

 

Actually, you're mistaken:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15653

F**k Game Workshop! If they haven't been assholes since forever now there would be World of Warhammer instestead of world of Warcraft. I dont pitty them. I grew up on Games Workshops games, but they have always been assholes to their fans, especially outside of UK and US.

Would it be TOO much to ask that people understand the basics of Trademark and Copyright law before posting? (First, Trademark and Copyright aren't the same thing, and while they're both in the category of "Intellectual Property" law, and there's some overlap, there's a lot of differences.)

Warning: Gross oversimplification follows.

It is not illegal to "make money" using someone else's Trademark. I can start a company which competes with Games Workshop and I can use their trademarks in my advertising, to advertise either comparisons or compatailibility. That is, "These miniatures are 100% compatible with Warhammer 40K!" is legal to say. So it "This game is way better than Warhammer!" I *do* have to acknowledge that those are trademarks and they are used without permission, but GW cannot sue me for violating their trademark if I follow the rules. (I also cannot replicate their logo or "trade dress", as those images are COPYRIGHTED. You cannot copyright a word or phrase, but you can copyright a distinctive image, such as a logo.)

Trademark law was originally intended not to protect corporations, but to protect consumers -- to keep me from selling "Tilenol" or "Kentucki Fried Chicken", for example, using subpar ingredients and taking advantage of the trust consumers had in the brands I'm imitating. The benchmark there is "confusion", that a "reasonable" consumer might mistake the shoddy knockoff for the real thing. Obviously, this does benefit corporations, too, which is fine -- if you've spent years building a quality product under a brand name, you have a right to be upset when someone uses a nearly identical brand name to produce an inferior product and destroy your reputation. Trademarks are also limited to specific businesses -- "McDonalds" is a trademark for a restaraunt, but I could start "McDonalds Plumbing Supplies" and not be in violation.

Now, what complicates things are some annoying changes made a few years ago to the Lanham act, which allows for suits due to "trademark dilution" -- a corporation can claim that their trademark is "diluted" if it is used in a way which weakens the trademark, even if there's no chance of customer confusion. The language of the law is very vaguely worded and the court cases dealing with it are all over the map, so it has become the favorite cudgel for corporations looking to gain more control over their trademarks than the law actually allows.

IANAL, but I do not think GW has any real case here. There is no chance of a reasonable consumer "confusing" WarhammerAlliance.com for an "official" site. The "dilution" argument would be extremely weak. I think this is purely a case of corporate lawyers looking to justify their existence by finding something to do. However, it is also likely, given how poorly WAR is doing, that fighting in court to preserve the domain is not going to be worth it for the domain owners, and they will likely settle out of court.

I have noticed, BTW, that a large majority of the posters to this thread don't seem to perform any kind of legal analysis of the issue; instead, they take sides based on whether or not they like the Warhammer game, or WAR, or GW, or Mythic. There's a word for this kind of thinking: Stupid. Law is not about feelings or what you WANT or what you think someone "deserves". Law is about law, and if you're going to hold forth on whether or not a lawsuit is justified, why not study the laws involved and make a judgment based on THAT, instead of what you wish "should" happen? Is that just too much work?

Originally posted by scuubeedoo

The argument about the anonymous registration is kinda weak cause Curse will dodge it by saying that they actually registered to Goddady which in turn offered them "protection from spammers"... That's what "domains by proxy" claims to be.

On the next round GW will hit back with the absence of contact information on the website and Curse will dodge once again with what the original owner of WHA said just above, that not only they knew about WHA but had approved on a disclaimer... Then Curse will counterattack with the argument that GW doesn't even have a fansite on their own about the specific IP so how could it considered competition?

I don't know... i am all with GW on this but it looks a tough battle

gw doesnt need to prove anything or justify anything !they OWN the thing so they decide not anybody else if it was otherwise

ea would be the happiest company!there is a reason it works this way .true some closet company buy these ownership stuff

for the sole purpose of suing left and right but gw isnt like that their track record proves it.some just try shady ways to get by

and reep benefit without regard to the gw code of conduct!(yes there is one)or mythic would be happier to do like they like

already gw gave mythic  lot more head room then gw  usully  give!

Originally posted by drbaltazar

 

gw doesnt need to prove anything or justify anything !they OWN the thing so they decide not anybody else if it was otherwise

ea would be the happiest company

Hence my earlier point re:people not bothering to understand, know, or even care about the law before offering their opinions. Sorry, "dr". There are legal and illegal ways to use other people's trademarks, and determining if a given use falls into the former or latter category is precisely why we have courts, lawyers, judges, lawsuits, appeals, and all that other rigamarole. My not-a-lawyer opinion, based on some time spent actually studying the relevant law, is that GW doesn't have a case, but will probably win anyway because the expense of fighting them is more than the site is likely to be worth. Do you disagree? Then, please, tell me why, ideally with some citations of the relevant parts of trademark law or some precedent cases. Perhaps I'm extremely wrong, but simply insisting this is so without referencing any facts -- not just your idea of how trademark works, which is wrong in every way -- will not convince me.

Also, learn when to use the "shift" key, and some punctuation besides "!". Thank you.

Originally posted by Blurr

I've always felt that Curse are a bunch of greedy crooks with shady business practices. I hold no sympathy for them if they're getting slapped around legally. I wouldn't shed a tear if their whole network went under.

Whether or not GW is being overzealous about their IP, I don't really have an opinion. Frankly, though, it's their right to control the use of their IP. 

 

i agree about curse after they shafted mark from aion source, ive never used any of there sites since.

I never thought I would see WAR stoop to the same level of idiotic drama as games like Darkfall.  

Sigh, such potential squandered by stupidity.  

Originally posted by kaiser3282

 Heh, youd think they would have learned a little from that. They missed out on a buttfkload of money.

Yeah, poor GW... They earn loads of cash anyways. The fact that they are very protective of their IP is actually good, only question is how Mythic got the right to it? Well, and how they could sell the rights to Warhammer fantasy RPG to Fantasy flight games that makes nice boardgames and bad RPGs.

Besides, Blizzard was not the company we know today at the time, they were most known for cheesy chess Amiga games before Warcraft, it Wasn't until Diablo that anyone noticed them.

But I don't feel sorry for Curse.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

I never thought I would see WAR stoop to the same level of idiotic drama as games like Darkfall.  

Sigh, such potential squandered by stupidity.  

"WAR"... be it Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, Mythic... or EA... are NOT involved in this. Get your facts straight and dont use this as a lauching pad for your Darkfall rants.

This is between Curse and Games Workshop.

This is completely Curse's fault.

They were idiots that used a IP, and from that make money from it. Sorry idiots but GW is just doing any other company would do.

It would be a different matter if they asked GW first, but they didn't. So they screwed themselves over.

Man the stupidity this is bringing out, just look at alienovrlord. Hey idiot, Mythic has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

Now go back to WoW.

Warhammer Alliance....

Well GW does have rights to this IP title, TT WHFB has used this moniker for a long time. Although if GW really wanted it why not take action years ago when Curse.com started using it.

Really in the end it belongs to GW. This is all without regard to EA Mythic and WAR.

Although with regard to the game, well a website isn't going to revive the game, and I doubt it will put a steak through this blood suckers heart. It's gonna limp on as the undead of mmo's for a while longer till something else on the food chain manages to finally put it out of it's missery.

The owners of the website make cash of the trademarked Warhammer name.

I repeat, The owners of the website make cash of the trademarked Warhammer name.

THAT is illegal, NOT the fact of it being a fansite.

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Originally posted by drbaltazar

 

gw doesnt need to prove anything or justify anything !they OWN the thing so they decide not anybody else if it was otherwise

ea would be the happiest company

Hence my earlier point re:people not bothering to understand, know, or even care about the law before offering their opinions. Sorry, "dr". There are legal and illegal ways to use other people's trademarks, and determining if a given use falls into the former or latter category is precisely why we have courts, lawyers, judges, lawsuits, appeals, and all that other rigamarole. My not-a-lawyer opinion, based on some time spent actually studying the relevant law, is that GW doesn't have a case, but will probably win anyway because the expense of fighting them is more than the site is likely to be worth. Do you disagree? Then, please, tell me why, ideally with some citations of the relevant parts of trademark law or some precedent cases. Perhaps I'm extremely wrong, but simply insisting this is so without referencing any facts -- not just your idea of how trademark works, which is wrong in every way -- will not convince me.

Also, learn when to use the "shift" key, and some punctuation besides "!". Thank you.

mm!there arent many licency to gw, espacially not with a game like war .so those having licence are in no way related even remotely to curse ,so like i say gw can do what the hell they want with it .so yes they have a case because

obviously they want to sue curse.and if they sue you can be sure they have a strong case ,since they almost never sue!

the only time some kind of rule of conduct would apply is between gw and licence !no licence they got to pay plus the exemplary fine for falselly using name that they dont own ,rent  or are even licenced to!

it like me using your name to make money!its not legal!i would go to jail so it the same thing here stealing is stealing

so curse .com should be sued fined and should go to jail!(thats my view of it!just because its online doesnt mean its not stealing!

as always well done Games Workshop, i see nothing wrong here for them to sue...

it'd be like microsoft using BBC iplayer while still charging players "gold membership" to view it. They are making money on the GW name... i'd be pissed too if another person was making money by using my identity for their own ends.

it's all about goodwill, and the common americ... i mean idiot, thinking that anything Warhammer and all IP related would therefore be authorised and thumbs up from the holding company, and any think or thereof would appy to have been given the green light. Welcome to the wonderful world of law, all GW is doing is holding their interests as a business and protection to themselves. I see no issue here, surprised they didn't do it sooner... meh.

just a shame no one read the article and just saw "GW sues Curse" and started monkey dancing here like a bunch of 12 year olds ;)

I think the first amendent and the fair use law will pretty much quash this suit if they want to take it to court.

Pretty much tells me to never ever purchase anything that is related to Games Workshop.

According to the post above me there is no such thing as freedom of speech anymore, have to wonder about his knowledge of law.  Fan sites have been sued before and unless they really have stepped over the line, there is nothing to the suite.

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Would it be TOO much to ask that people understand the basics of Trademark and Copyright law before posting? (First, Trademark and Copyright aren't the same thing, and while they're both in the category of "Intellectual Property" law, and there's some overlap, there's a lot of differences.)

Warning: Gross oversimplification follows.

It is not illegal to "make money" using someone else's Trademark. I can start a company which competes with Games Workshop and I can use their trademarks in my advertising, to advertise either comparisons or compatailibility. That is, "These miniatures are 100% compatible with Warhammer 40K!" is legal to say. So it "This game is way better than Warhammer!" I *do* have to acknowledge that those are trademarks and they are used without permission, but GW cannot sue me for violating their trademark if I follow the rules. (I also cannot replicate their logo or "trade dress", as those images are COPYRIGHTED. You cannot copyright a word or phrase, but you can copyright a distinctive image, such as a logo.)

Trademark law was originally intended not to protect corporations, but to protect consumers -- to keep me from selling "Tilenol" or "Kentucki Fried Chicken", for example, using subpar ingredients and taking advantage of the trust consumers had in the brands I'm imitating. The benchmark there is "confusion", that a "reasonable" consumer might mistake the shoddy knockoff for the real thing. Obviously, this does benefit corporations, too, which is fine -- if you've spent years building a quality product under a brand name, you have a right to be upset when someone uses a nearly identical brand name to produce an inferior product and destroy your reputation. Trademarks are also limited to specific businesses -- "McDonalds" is a trademark for a restaraunt, but I could start "McDonalds Plumbing Supplies" and not be in violation.

Now, what complicates things are some annoying changes made a few years ago to the Lanham act, which allows for suits due to "trademark dilution" -- a corporation can claim that their trademark is "diluted" if it is used in a way which weakens the trademark, even if there's no chance of customer confusion. The language of the law is very vaguely worded and the court cases dealing with it are all over the map, so it has become the favorite cudgel for corporations looking to gain more control over their trademarks than the law actually allows.

IANAL, but I do not think GW has any real case here. There is no chance of a reasonable consumer "confusing" WarhammerAlliance.com for an "official" site. The "dilution" argument would be extremely weak. I think this is purely a case of corporate lawyers looking to justify their existence by finding something to do. However, it is also likely, given how poorly WAR is doing, that fighting in court to preserve the domain is not going to be worth it for the domain owners, and they will likely settle out of court.

I have noticed, BTW, that a large majority of the posters to this thread don't seem to perform any kind of legal analysis of the issue; instead, they take sides based on whether or not they like the Warhammer game, or WAR, or GW, or Mythic. There's a word for this kind of thinking: Stupid. Law is not about feelings or what you WANT or what you think someone "deserves". Law is about law, and if you're going to hold forth on whether or not a lawsuit is justified, why not study the laws involved and make a judgment based on THAT, instead of what you wish "should" happen? Is that just too much work?

Good Post.

I hope others take the time to read it.

since we dont know what the reason gw filed a lawsuit or will yet your and most of the arguement on this tread are irelevent

but im willing to bet that for gw to make a move ,they didnt do this on a whim!it must have been a very important reason!

i didnt google everything (would be too long but i did google one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Protection_Act

dont know about you but just this alone make a strong case they have

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/legal/Complaint.pdf

this is the lawsuit!

COMPLAINT FOR TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT; CYBERSQUATTING;
DILUTION; UNFAIR AND DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICES;
AND UNFAIR COMPETITION

and these are the complaint fell free to research them all ,i did cybersquatting and it sounded frivoleous till i found the wiki and it sound very serious offence!

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Would it be TOO much to ask that people understand the basics of Trademark and Copyright law before posting? (First, Trademark and Copyright aren't the same thing, and while they're both in the category of "Intellectual Property" law, and there's some overlap, there's a lot of differences.)

Warning: Gross oversimplification follows.

Thanks for the clarifications, however i would like to ask some questions as per below ( pls note i dont know anything about the law) :

It is not illegal to "make money" using someone else's Trademark. I can start a company which competes with Games Workshop and I can use their trademarks in my advertising, to advertise either comparisons or compatailibility. That is, "These miniatures are 100% compatible with Warhammer 40K!" is legal to say. So it "This game is way better than Warhammer!" I *do* have to acknowledge that those are trademarks and they are used without permission, but GW cannot sue me for violating their trademark if I follow the rules. (I also cannot replicate their logo or "trade dress", as those images are COPYRIGHTED. You cannot copyright a word or phrase, but you can copyright a distinctive image, such as a logo.)

"for cybersquatting under 15 U.S.C. § 1125(d);" But WHA did being sold to curse, which they dont have the right, right? Anything by the name of "Warhammer" isn't it own by GW?

Trademark law was originally intended not to protect corporations, but to protect consumers -- to keep me from selling "Tilenol" or "Kentucki Fried Chicken", for example, using subpar ingredients and taking advantage of the trust consumers had in the brands I'm imitating. The benchmark there is "confusion", that a "reasonable" consumer might mistake the shoddy knockoff for the real thing. Obviously, this does benefit corporations, too, which is fine -- if you've spent years building a quality product under a brand name, you have a right to be upset when someone uses a nearly identical brand name to produce an inferior product and destroy your reputation. Trademarks are also limited to specific businesses -- "McDonalds" is a trademark for a restaraunt, but I could start "McDonalds Plumbing Supplies" and not be in violation.

Link: http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-11-08/business/17451070_1_monster-cable-products-noel-lee-monster-slots a law suit by Monster. You mean Monster can not win?

Now, what complicates things are some annoying changes made a few years ago to the Lanham act, which allows for suits due to "trademark dilution" -- a corporation can claim that their trademark is "diluted" if it is used in a way which weakens the trademark, even if there's no chance of customer confusion. The language of the law is very vaguely worded and the court cases dealing with it are all over the map, so it has become the favorite cudgel for corporations looking to gain more control over their trademarks than the law actually allows.

What you mean is this?  "The domain name warhammeralliance.com and the mark WARHAMMER
ALLIANCE itself literally states and implies that Defendants and their business are in an
“alliance” with Plaintiff and its products and services offered under the WARHAMMER Marks."

IANAL, but I do not think GW has any real case here. There is no chance of a reasonable consumer "confusing" WarhammerAlliance.com for an "official" site. The "dilution" argument would be extremely weak. I think this is purely a case of corporate lawyers looking to justify their existence by finding something to do. However, it is also likely, given how poorly WAR is doing, that fighting in court to preserve the domain is not going to be worth it for the domain owners, and they will likely settle out of court.

The thing is GW is suing much more, like the abuse of Warhammer website without proper procedure, etc...

Originally posted by Selenica

You do not build a successful MMO by attacking your own community like this. Just ask Blizzard. 

BTW this company is the reason Blizzard blatantly ripped off Warhammer in the 90s. Blizzard was interested in making an RTS game based on the Warhammer franchise and these guys basically said "F*** off".

This has NOTHING to do with the Warhammer MMO. And Games Workshop owns the Warhammer IP. It is theres. THEY  decide what to do with it, not anyone else. Curse did something and recieved money using their name and images without permission or consent. They deserve to be sued.

Originally posted by Naral

Games Workshop has long had a history of near fascist like protection of their IP and copyright. They have shut down NUMEROUS fansites for their games over the years, not just for the video games, but the miniature games as well. They have always kind of been the Microsoft of the gaming industry, imo.

 

 Just before FFG released their new version of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG, a bunch of fan websites for the first and second editions (who were not making money at GW's expense) received cease and desist notices. Every so often, you can count on GW to totally hose over their fans.

Maybe it's just me but I don't see the GW case as having *any* basis.

I don't see any copyrighted trade-dress on Warhammer Alliance site.  On a quick scan, I don't even see any trademarks.  Using proxies for domain registration is common to prevent spam (and does not prevent contacting the owner via the proxy).

Furthermore, GW's trademark of the Warhammer name should be *far* more narrowly defined than most trademarks (if it was even awarded in the first place) as warhammer is a common word that was also in usage in the same industry prior to GW's creation of Warhammer.

GW deserves the nickname Game$ Work$hop.  I'm sure some googling would turn up a long history of frivolous suits they've filed against various companies over the years (and some valid suits too).  The case that proves the point though is two-fold:

1) Official event rules require (or used to anyway) the proper current figure to be used (and painted in an approved way).  Of course, GW retires figures every year and comes out with new ones just to force people to buy new ones.

2) The mini prices are mostly based on how effective the unit is in the games and not remotely related to the price to manufacture the mini.

Frivolous lawsuit is frivolous.

Originally posted by Selenica

You do not build a successful MMO by attacking your own community like this. Just ask Blizzard. 

BTW this company is the reason Blizzard blatantly ripped off Warhammer in the 90s. Blizzard was interested in making an RTS game based on the Warhammer franchise and these guys basically said "F*** off".

 

 Just to clarify a bit, it wasn't a blatant ripoff (i.e. Blizzard didn't just go out and do it on their own): GW initially had Blizzard work on a Warhammer RTS. GW then decided that they did not like what Blizzard had made, and walked away. Blizzard then slapped a new name on it, and launched it as Warcraft instead of Warhammer. That is why all the artwork and such resembles that of GW; it was originally supposed to be a GW game.

Originally posted by wilcoxon

Maybe it's just me but I don't see the GW case as having *any* basis.

I don't see any copyrighted trade-dress on Warhammer Alliance site.  On a quick scan, I don't even see any trademarks.  Using proxies for domain registration is common to prevent spam (and does not prevent contacting the owner via the proxy).

Furthermore, GW's trademark of the Warhammer name should be *far* more narrowly defined than most trademarks (if it was even awarded in the first place) as warhammer is a common word that was also in usage in the same industry prior to GW's creation of Warhammer.

GW deserves the nickname Game$ Work$hop.  I'm sure some googling would turn up a long history of frivolous suits they've filed against various companies over the years (and some valid suits too).  The case that proves the point though is two-fold:

1) Official event rules require (or used to anyway) the proper current figure to be used (and painted in an approved way).  Of course, GW retires figures every year and comes out with new ones just to force people to buy new ones.

2) The mini prices are mostly based on how effective the unit is in the games and not remotely related to the price to manufacture the mini.

 

 Your two points just show that they, like most companies, try to find ways to maximize profits. Really whether or not the case has merit will come down to who can prove what. If GW can show that Curse was using GW icons and such, and made a profit from the Warhammer name, then the case is valid. On the other hand if Curse can show that they had contacted GW and negotiated the looks of the websites (from saved e-mails and such), and can show that they do not make money directly off of GW IP, then they will win.

Originally posted by wilcoxon
(...)

Furthermore, GW's trademark of the Warhammer name should be *far* more narrowly defined than most trademarks (if it was even awarded in the first place) as warhammer is a common word that was also in usage in the same industry prior to GW's creation of Warhammer.

GW deserves the nickname Game$ Work$hop.  I'm sure some googling would turn up a long history of frivolous suits they've filed against various companies over the years (and some valid suits too).  The case that proves the point though is two-fold:

1) Official event rules require (or used to anyway) the proper current figure to be used (and painted in an approved way).  Of course, GW retires figures every year and comes out with new ones just to force people to buy new ones.

2) The mini prices are mostly based on how effective the unit is in the games and not remotely related to the price to manufacture the mini.

OMG, another company which wants to make as much money as humanly possible? Weird...

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Originally posted by Lizard_SF
Law is about law, and if you're going to hold forth on whether or not a lawsuit is justified, why not study the laws involved and make a judgment based on THAT, instead of what you wish "should" happen? Is that just too much work?

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Welcome to the forums mate.

If we can somehow find a way to convert Stupid into raw energy, I'll make a lolrocket fueled by the posts here and launch myself to Mars.

I hear the rocks there are pretty smart.

What little I do know about intellectual property is that the owner can decide who can use it and how it is to be used. Which in this case GW indeed does have a case against curse. Since they are the owners of the IP they have the right to decide that they do not like how curse is using their IP and hence want it removed.
 

i had a website named bloodbowlesp.com time ago, GW sent me a letter to put it down, or go to the courts. Thats the ppl we dealing with.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

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Originally posted by Lizard_SF
Law is about law, and if you're going to hold forth on whether or not a lawsuit is justified, why not study the laws involved and make a judgment based on THAT, instead of what you wish "should" happen? Is that just too much work?

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Welcome to the forums mate.

If we can somehow find a way to convert Stupid into raw energy, I'll make a lolrocket fueled by the posts here and launch myself to Mars.

I hear the rocks there are pretty smart.

 

I agree Vagrant. If you get your lolrocket working, lemme borrow it. My roflcopter broke down as I was reading this thread.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Sauronas

I'm with GW.  Blizzard STOLE almost all of it's ideas from GW games.  Where's the outcry over that?  The only reason people played warcraft is because there was no Warhammer RTS and the only reason why anyone would deny it is because they are Blizzard fanboys who weren't even born when Warhammer was created.  If you knew anything about GW or Warhammer you'd know that the name "Warhammer Alliance"  Is trademarked and has been for years.  Whatever these wow trolls might say out of their own retarded ignorance, war has gained players and wow has lost players.  Stfu and play the ENDLESS trial before talking shit about things you know nothing about.

 People don't give a shit where companies get their ideas. They played Warcraft because it's a good game. Most of the things Warhammer was built on came from other sources anyway, just like everything else. Let me know when Warhammer gets to twelve million subscriptions or even one million subscriptions and you can start talking about  Warhammer numbers. I play the endless trial and it's beer and pretzels just like their miniatures game. There's nothing special there.

 

In case you aven't noticed Blizzard doesn't have a dog in this fight.

 

 Honestly if they borrowed it was from like the dude said before "Mythology", and possibly some D&D and Tolkien.  Yet, the whole style is much different than any of those and they didn't completely rob it.  Blizzard was going to make the Warhammer rts "Warcraft".  Games Workshop says no, so Blizzard just changes stuff around and releases their own.  Plus, the warhammer mmo although I do play it has nothing to do with this.  The failure that Warhammer Online has been is all EA and Mythic not Games Workshop and the true Warhammer IP which is an awesome IP that has been around since the eighties.

Actually, Blizzard and Game Workshop were going to make Warhammer...but Game Workshop didn't like the "quality" of the game while it was in developement and pulled the IP [Warhammer] so Blizzard made some changes and released Warcraft; ultimately roflstomping GW's one-chance grab at cash.

Everyone knows Games Workshop are a bunch of wankers right?

Basicly GW is just protecting their brand. If Curse makes money on that brand its not a fansite anymore, its a company.  As its a company it should have separate permission to use the brand ( usually involves licence fee ) Reading through the info one can see that GW tried to contact Curse through the given links on Curse website and did not succeed, they also checked the domain info to contact Curse but its registered anonymously via " Domains by Proxy " 

So GW tried to contact Curse, Curse gave a big FU via having incorrect contact information and hidden the domain info. In the corporate world this can be seen as very suspicious activity and GW sees it as purposefully trying to conceal the identities of the owners.. Since Curse didn't want to "discuss the issue", GW is just raising the stakes.

This kind of stuff is normal in the corporate world but often media, ike this site too brings this kind of info as a sensational issue to people that have no clue what actually is going on and causes more harm than it benefits anyone. 

GW is just protecting their property and trying to get Curse to the negotiation table. I'm no GW fan tho but this is what any company should do to protect its brand or products.

I am wondering, whether the Terms of Use of WHA back when it was a fansite, mentioned that our personal details could be used from 3rd parties for commercial reasons (i.e. sold)?

IF YES, doesn't that automatically cancel the whole lawsuit and furthurmore puts in question G.W.'s ownership of Warhammer IP for the simple reason they didn't forced it back then even if there was commercial use or at least intention for it?

IF NO, doesn't the action of selling that fansite violate the Terms of Use which are the only ones we had agreed?

In short, either someone stole (=used them without proper permission) our accounts in WHA, or G.W. wasn't careful enough back then when they let the site run with a Disclaimer they provided but without actually checking the Terms of Use of the site.

Originally posted by Angelshark

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

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Originally posted by Lizard_SF
Law is about law, and if you're going to hold forth on whether or not a lawsuit is justified, why not study the laws involved and make a judgment based on THAT, instead of what you wish "should" happen? Is that just too much work?

---

Welcome to the forums mate.

If we can somehow find a way to convert Stupid into raw energy, I'll make a lolrocket fueled by the posts here and launch myself to Mars.

I hear the rocks there are pretty smart.

 

I agree Vagrant. If you get your lolrocket working, lemme borrow it. My roflcopter broke down as I was reading this thread.

You three win 2 internets each

/salute

Originally posted by Shastra

Do they really want to kill off whatever community is left of this game? they have no idea how many players they are going to piss off with this. More players use Warhammer alliance compared to official forums.

Perhaps.   A properly done Warhammer MMO would rake in the cash, killing off the current one so they can then lisence out or co-produce one in the future would be a good business move on the money making front.

However, this isnt about Warhammer online the game, its about a profit making former fan site.

This is not a surprise. Games Workshop has always been rabid about protecting their IP. They didn't survive for 30+yrs by allowing 3rd parties to profit off using the Warhammer name for nothing.

quick answer - PLEASE READ THIS.

Basically Games Worksop HAVE to try stop others using their copyrighted trademarks. If they DONT TRY, then in the law they will LOSE the trademark COMPLETEY.

Then ANY other BUSINESS could come and publish all their games for that businesses OWN profit.

It's weird legal stuff.

So though the fansite isnt makign any profit - if they went on using their trademarks for a numebr of years without GW asking them to remove them, it is in the eyes of the LAW tantamount to a tacit admission form GW that they no longer wish to retiain rights over their IP.

So GW HAS TO DO THIS.

(had this same issue with a certain fansaty football site recently)

and PS - all the ignorant haters are real lame

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by jybgess

I dont understand. Can someone break it down to stupid level for me...........

From what I gathered Curse is making money off the fansite and that is 'against the rules' for fansites.  On a more personal note, they may want the domain name for future projects but that's just a guess.

They also likely want to kill the WAR to free up licensing options. Most IP contracts include some sort of stipulation that if something fails and is no longer maintained by the company the licensing IP then the license can be revoked without penalty.

No idea on the specifics of their IP license specifically mind you.