I disagree with 2 points of this review. Customer service and lag. Customer service is something personal, and its hard to ascertain any of it from one persons experience. I've had to call customer service twice in my life and in both cases i was immediatly connected and immediatly helped. I'm in Europe though, perhaps the situation in the U.S. is worste.

I really disagree with lag though. In my experience most lag is the result of lack of RAM. I've got 4 GB ram and while many of my guildies who own "lesser systems" complain about lag, I have a minimal amount of it, even during big wintergrasp battles or in Dalaran. However, even the lag that some people experience there is nothing, NOTHING compared to the absurd amount of lag that people have experienced in games like Vanguard and AoC.

Finally, I think Wintergrasp could be given some more mention. In my opinion wintergrasp is the single best addition to the expansion, It's warcraft as its meant to be, and frankly puts sieging in other games like AoC and Warhammer to shame. If theres one complaint about it it is that there should be far more of it.

I do agree that gnome death knights are retarded, but thats mainly because it doesn't fit into our expectations model of what a death knight should be. Lore wise, and logically, there isn't any reason why a gnome shouldn't be raised as a deathknight by the lich king.

 Ive been really happy so far. More than the previous 2 releases. I still find the pvp lacking , but since Ive given up on it  .... it really doesn't matter anymore. On the pve side of things I found dungeons , I found them to be retardedly easy. Extremely easy , If people said a monkey could play wow before  .....they definately can now. I don't think I have gone into an instance up to lvl 80 that actually used crowd control. Those are probably the only 2 complaints i have had. Other than that , the quests , DK  , and storyline have been fantastic.

I generally got bored with the end-game of WoW and just made new characters.  Is it still almost exactly the same run up that it was pre-expansions?  It seemed like everything that was added was for the 60-game, the 61-70, and now the 71-80 games.

I disagree also on 2 of your con's.

Customer Service is fine.  Yeah of course dont expect them to answer your petition in 15 minutes, it aint going to happen.   But you can be sure that if you have a problem they will solve it.  I had a few problems and they were all adressed in a professional manner.

gnome DK ?!?!  That's not a con

Lag i give you this one, but what can you do really ?  When a game is popular and peoples gahter in the same area, computers can only handle "that" many peoples in one area.

Easy to Play......

Thats one of the good points? The reason MMO's today are sucking so hard? Wow.... pretty low mmorpg.com..pretty low...

Originally posted by demonic87

Easy to Play......

Thats one of the good points? The reason MMO's today are sucking so hard? Wow.... pretty low mmorpg.com..pretty low...

I think you may be confusing the term "easy to play" with "easy to master". There's a massive difference between these two terms. A game being easy to play means that in ordeer to pick the game up and enjoy myself with it, I really don't need to doa  whole lot. The barrier to entry is low. That's a near universal positive in the world of games. The bottom line is that if I pick up a game and don't nearly instantly understand the fundamentals, it's not a very well designed game.

Now, easy to master... that's a different story entirely. Games shouldn't be easy to master. There should always be ways to improve from the base. As in any good game, skill should develop over time, with practice.

Let's look at an example from the real world: pool.

Pool is one of my favorite real life games . It's something that I thoroughly enjoy. It's an easy game to play. You pick up a cue, you smack the white ball into another ball and hope it goes intoa  pocket. There is almost no barrier to entry in pool. You can pick it up and play the game. It's an easy game to play.

That being said, I rarely win at pool. You see, as much as I like it, I just don't have the opportunity to play it very often and so my skill level is rather rudimentary. I often get my butt handed to me by friends and colleagues. Pool is a difficult game to master.

While this argument isn't talking at all about the merits of WoW (I personally don't play it), it does point out a problem with the original interpretation of what the reviewer said.

The problem with MMOs right now, or I should say that the percieved problem with MMOs now as I haven't decided which side of the fence I am personally on on the subject, is not that games are easy. games should be, NEED to be easy to play in order to turn a profit on their multi-million dollar price tags. The barrier to entry MUST BE LOW. The trick is that easy to enter games should also be difficult to master which, granted, is not always the case.

Anyway, I hope that clears things up for you.

How the hell easy to play is pros? So what is point to play? I think many people need challenge, or maybe at least old school players... Just this comment abou easy to play make me to keep away from game. Give me some challenge, because WoW can be played even by most idiotic people...

WoW is easy to get into but has challenges at all levels. You know, I've tried many MMO's and in every MMO people say WoW is so easy, yet none of these MMO's (perhaps with exception of everquest) actually have the challenging bosses that require complex strategies like WoW. Far and a way, most MMO's are still stuck in the "tank and spank" mindset when it comes to challenge. Implementing extra penalties for death or a slow levelling curve, does not make a more challenging or complex game, it only makes for a more frustrating one.

Naxxnamaras is a good example of an instance filled with real challenges. Real challenges, because it doesnt matter how good your gear is, if you aren't awake and don't use your brain you'll whipe the raid, period. 

Wow is easy to step into, but if you like a challenge, you'll also find it in WoW. Wether its heroic dungeons, raid dungeons or becoming the top Arena player, the game gives players the opportunity to challenge their gameplaying abilities.

And to the guy who says heroics are easy, I met a guy like you in heroics once, bragging about how pisseasy everything is and how the PVE is nerfed, and only idiots would find it hard. Then at the end of the ride that same person that complained about it being so easy made us whipe on Loken, 4 times.  Ran to far away, didn't ran far enough, lost aggro, etc, etc. Heroics may be easier now then they where at the beginning of The Burning Crusade, but they are still difficult enough that most are hard to actually pug succesfully.

Furthermore, it is true that in Heroics the use of CC seems to be down. This is because tanking in general was buffed, something which was truly needed, because of the fact that the challenge and complexity of tanking resulted in few people actually willing to play one. And its better to have a slightly easier game and be able to play then to have a challening experience but not being able to play because theres no tank available.

Let me tell you a secret though, healing in general is nerfed (mana regen is nerfed, no downranking, potions nerfed). So while the DPS is ignoring their ability to CC, the healer is blowing all his cooldowns to keep the tank up, and you'll find such groups whipe very often because of it. While you can certainly ignore CC on many trash, a group that does take advantage of their CC, will put a lot less stress on their healer and as a result have a much bigger chance to finish the dungeon without a whipe.

I have to agree with the review of this expanion =), it's been a pleasure to play it and enjoy some much needed new content.

However as per usual I've now completed all of the content, the end game holds nothing new for me until Blizzard opens up some more of the high end raiding dungeons.

I'm not a fan of PvP so Wintergrasp doesn't do it for me.

So thumbs up for a great expansion I just wish there was more in it for me to do other than repeat and rinse on alt characters.

Hurry up with the next batch of dungeons, or better yet implement a lost dungeons of norrath system to bring some replayability into the game.

I just hit lvl 80 on my DK almost a week ago. I completed Howling Fjord, Borean Tundra, Dragon Blight, Grizzly Hills, Zul'Drak, and many quests in Scholazar Basin including the instances and group quests to level to 80. I still had the rest of Scholazar Basin, Crystal Forest, Icecrown, and Stormpeaks to complete, if I wanted to see all of the content, which I do, which is why I'm still questing.

I want to reemphasize how great this expansion is. The whole story surrounding Northrend is massive. The contenent itself has an overall story that you're working through. Each zone contributes to that overall story along with providing a zone wide story. Several mini-stories are  apart of the zone wide story. So in essense, you have stories, within a story, within a larger story.

Controlling vehicles is fun. There are a "ton" of different vehicles you can take control of, even as low as lvl 68. The instances are a lot of fun. They look great, and they all have their challenges to overcome and learn before the instance becomes gravy. At this moment I have 3 Epics, have done 2 raids, in both their Heroic and non-Heroic form and have done Heroic 5 mans to death. Practice makes perfect and if you're a new grouup to an instance or raid, it will be a challenge.

Wintergrasp, the PvP zone where you fight for a keep with siege vehicles and cannons etc, which if you win provides access to a 1 boss raid zone, can be a lot of fun. I'm not really into PvP in this game, because the class balance just sucks. A Rogue who can stun lock you the entire fight, even after you pop a crowd control release, is just overpowered. Anyways, they added a new BG as well and it involves siege vehicles as well.

The performance is touchy in the game, and I run a super computer created to run next generation games. I don't think Northrend was optimized as well as the rest of the game and I wonder where all that money went that they earned. Perhaps the servers cannot handle so many people with the upgrade in graphics....who knows.

Anyways, the expansion is a lot of fun and has me hooked on this game for at least a few more months. I started playing seriously a month before WoTLK released, but before that I never could get into the game. I'd say WoW is the best MMORPG on the market pound for pound.

Originally posted by Conley

I disagree with 2 points of this review. Customer service and lag. Customer service is something personal, and its hard to ascertain any of it from one persons experience. I've had to call customer service twice in my life and in both cases i was immediatly connected and immediatly helped. I'm in Europe though, perhaps the situation in the U.S. is worste.

 

I really disagree with lag though. In my experience most lag is the result of lack of RAM. I've got 4 GB ram and while many of my guildies who own "lesser systems" complain about lag, I have a minimal amount of it, even during big wintergrasp battles or in Dalaran. However, even the lag that some people experience there is nothing, NOTHING compared to the absurd amount of lag that people have experienced in games like Vanguard and AoC.

 

Finally, I think Wintergrasp could be given some more mention. In my opinion wintergrasp is the single best addition to the expansion, It's warcraft as its meant to be, and frankly puts sieging in other games like AoC and Warhammer to shame. If theres one complaint about it it is that there should be far more of it.

I do agree that gnome death knights are retarded, but thats mainly because it doesn't fit into our expectations model of what a death knight should be. Lore wise, and logically, there isn't any reason why a gnome shouldn't be raised as a deathknight by the lich king.

I was running my super computer with only 2GB of 400ghz RAM while using Vista 32bit. My FPS dropped to single digit sometimes while flying. Now that I put in 4 gigs of 800ghz OCZ high performance RAM for $19.99, I haven't experienced any lag, so I agree that the new expansion is RAM intensive.

I also have to agree - the new area is really amazingly done, graphics and sound wise.  Just sad that these touches can't be found outside of Northrend, i.e. if you have a low level alt, it just feels like grind to get to lv 68. As it is nowadays, you only need ca 2/3 of outland, which gives you a bit of a choice of where to level.

Furthermore, I also want to agree to easy to play - the quests are much "smoother" somehow, and diverse, as e.g. flying as a bird, or a a mechanic "bot", or e.g. bombing things.

Even if it feels like more of the same, it is done pretty well! Now the only thing missing perhaps is housing.....

What I believe Blizzard never managed well are the hubs for all levels. IF is still well populated, but cities like Exodar or Darnassus, which are so nice, are way too huge considering there is basically noone there; I almost want to go so far to say they wasted design on those cities.... And alternatives? E.g. Shatt, but that is in Outland.

Oh, and what is wrong with a gnome DK? I love my gnome DK - seeing that tiny bugger kicking some huge dragon butt is pretty cool imho.

Theres a problem with the game using my 4870X2 where in places with lots of tree's my FPS drops to like 8. My PC is fine and isn't my end and other people with my card on the forums reported the same thing. I tried to contact their customer service and never got a reply and tried to make a post on the forums and never got a reply.

All I wanted was a Blizzard guy reply and say "we'll look into it" but nothing......

If this was SOE or CCP I'd have a reply straight away and they'd always help me out.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

Theres a problem with the game using my 4870X2 where in places with lots of tree's my FPS drops to like 8. My PC is fine and isn't my end and other people with my card on the forums reported the same thing. I tried to contact their customer service and never got a reply and tried to make a post on the forums and never got a reply.

All I wanted was a Blizzard guy reply and say "we'll look into it" but nothing......

 

If this was SOE or CCP I'd have a reply straight away and they'd always help me out.

If that was CCP you wouldn't have to deal with trees. Alliances moving stuff around does the trick probably . Then again they fixed that.

Originally posted by ElendilasX

How the hell easy to play is pros? So what is point to play? I think many people need challenge, or maybe at least old school players... Just this comment abou easy to play make me to keep away from game. Give me some challenge, because WoW can be played even by most idiotic people...

How do you define challenging. Much of the time games that are defined as challenging simply translates into lots grinding for gear.   I don't have a demographic to back up this statement but most people are not looking to replace real life with online life. IMO Blizzard has to some degree found a place for all types of players. You can be casual and still enjoy the game, or you can take the path of the hardcore to extremely epic levels. This is why World of Warcraft has maintained its subscriber base since launch, there is something for everyone. BTW in my year of playing WoW I found customer service to be top notch.  Any issues I had were immediately handled in a timely manner.  Sadly it was the death Knights that drove me from the game.  

Lastly I think you should reconsider your comment about idiotic players. What is more idiotic than spending hundreds or thousands of life hours acquiring endless amounts of game gear.

I agree with the reviewer's views. I also agree with some of the comments above about ease of end game content. And yes, I definitely get the point about Ease of Entry vs. Ease of Mastery.

So far, the endgame is too easy. Yes, there are hard parts like Sartharion with three drakes up, but you can only do that once per week for an hour. Yes, PVP is challenging at the top ranks of arena but that is only applicable for a select number of classes and specs with access to gear and partners. 

I understand that Naxxramas was designed to be "the new Karazhan" and should be entry-level raiding. I understand that when additional raids arrive (such as Ulduar), they will be harder and we will not be able to blow through them in a night as we did here. It took us ten days to get enough guild members to 80 and clear every dungeon and every raid in today's WOTLK.  If it weren't for the achievement system giving us additional challenges if we gimp ourselves, we would probably have reduced attendance now.

The content is high quality. I'm a satisfied customer. I'm looking forward to more challenge as well.

Thanks,
Carneros

I agree with the review

best visuals in the industry?  someone needs to get their eyes checked

they did improve WoW's visuals in the expansion and (for those who dont mind the slightly cartoony looks) it looks quite good.  However there are far better games out there (visually) than WoW.

I have to agree with most of what objective things the review said, but I take great exception with the tone of the review, especially the first sentence of the review proper.

That is just poor reviewing. It sets an incredibly biased tone for the rest of the review.

Originally posted by Leodious

I have to agree with most of what objective things the review said, but I take great exception with the tone of the review, especially the first sentence of the review proper.

That is just poor reviewing. It sets an incredibly biased tone for the rest of the review.

Very true, WoW is definitely not my game of liking but I did not mind the review besides parts of it where it definitely started to scream fanboy, not saying that is the case, it just felt like it especially that first sentence.

Other parts of the review were nice except for the "Community" section, you talked only about the website rather than anything to do with the actual game's community.

Let go through this entire thread because its funny to me.
I guess i best establish some credit.

Starting i played consul rpgs on Nintendo dragon quest and the such until ps2 rpgs became boring and unplayable

I also played bbs such as legend of the red dragon (personal favorite, wasn't it everyones?), falcons eye, tradewars, etc.  Dam old lady in the woods hated me i swear.

Moved onto 10six , UO, EQ1, SWG, daoc (personal favorite of the 3d mmos), wow, ps, well its pretty much safe to say i have played most of them (minus many Asian grinders because they sucks). The ones I listed i played quite a bit, there were a few other is devoted some time to but many many more i spend maybe 1 day to a week playing. I like mmos still do and i know games so lets look into this thread and review.

One more thing, this post is not me being mad or angry i am playing wow while i type it. What this post is, is REALISTIC and not some fanboy's or clueless player's look into the latest expansion pack for WOW.

First point Wotlk = one of the worst x-packs ever.

OK the reviewer says otherwise. For about half of the review i thought  it was a master piece after all all his sarcastic comments hit the raw spots nice and good... oh wait hes not joking... what ?   And that was my basic thought process 2/3s through this review.

"The Death Knight" yes this is one new class to a game that is under classed, which makes use of not a single engaging or innovative mechanic. Oh OP in pvp too obviously.  However, this is not a bad thing all around.

"ten more levels raising the maximum level to eighty" Zomg new levels. Seriously, i mean so what? so like if blizzard sold a new x-pack tomorrow that had like 20 more levels would it be twice as good as this one? More levels = a way to make old equipment not useful anymore and start up the grind for equipment, which is good but somehow missed in this "review". It also allows new players to "fit in".

"new PVP zones" Trash

"brand new continent Northrend" I will give you this good sir as there was a lot of new content, yes nothing really "new" but still worth while.

"the most heavily populated areas, such as Dalaran" True in fact if on a high pop server with a far far better computer than yours it has well server lag not just client its so bad. But never mind the waiting 10-20 sec to sell and buy items in dalaran at 7:30pm server time. This plus the comments about Winters grasp in the thread who must have been made by people on low pop servers or they must be taking some form of "medication" that alters their perception of time (and thus altering their perception of lag). The reason i say this is there is pretty much no game that lags as bad as wow during a WG attack once everyone is in it, as their SERVER lags so hard i push attack button 50 times and get 3 attacks 20-40 seconds later. This is true for everyone on high med/high pop servers. So ignoring the "stories" WG is simply awful do to awful coding and blizzard not updating there servers.

The sound ... what sound i turn mine off, i have winamp ya know. After i am playing to play not sleep silly.

"The achievement points added to WoW pre WotLK personally enhanced the leveling grind for me" Because you get one what every like 2 days? ok maybe 2 a day if your hardcore. Lets address why achievements are good for the correct reason. They give you something to do ONCE YOU HIT 80. In other words AFTER the level grind and seeing as how most of them can not be completed until your 80, well blizzard knows what they are for and so do all the level 80s that PLAY THE GAME.  Still its fun to do while for others it may not be a motivating feature. 

Wow the game play section has no mention of end-game why is this? I cannot say but i can tell you about it. Its the same as before, which is good after all raiding works for the players of wow.  Lets also address 25 man raid and how 5 nights a week for ahh 2-4 hours its basically unraidable because of the lag. Don't believe me look at the 47 page sticky and then look up how that is the 3rd one posted so far.
Lets also look at the end game content, the first week of wraths release its was finished. My guild also completed all the end game pve content in 2 weeks of raiding (this is while pugging a few people because some of our people had not hit 80 yet).  So basically the x-pack game with little additional raiding. So little that it was finished the first week and also by a no name scrub guild finished in 2 weeks after this scrub guild started raiding (this also through the lag that would cause us to cancel a raid for a night or wipe all night to literally unbeatable bosses as we would hit them every 20 secs but the enrage timer stays the same).

That being said i still like wow and wrath. Wrath was just a piss-poor expansion, that added no addition depth, provided almost no end game ( far far less than before they expansion), and really has nothing additional to note other than the fact that all wow players had to now go out and buy a $40 x-pack for no reason what so ever.

So for a one sentence summation; Wrath of the lich king is an expansion pack that is less of the same as before.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by demonic87

Easy to Play......

Thats one of the good points? The reason MMO's today are sucking so hard? Wow.... pretty low mmorpg.com..pretty low...

 

I think you may be confusing the term "easy to play" with "easy to master". There's a massive difference between these two terms. A game being easy to play means that in ordeer to pick the game up and enjoy myself with it, I really don't need to doa  whole lot. The barrier to entry is low. That's a near universal positive in the world of games. The bottom line is that if I pick up a game and don't nearly instantly understand the fundamentals, it's not a very well designed game.

Now, easy to master... that's a different story entirely. Games shouldn't be easy to master. There should always be ways to improve from the base. As in any good game, skill should develop over time, with practice.

Let's look at an example from the real world: pool.

Pool is one of my favorite real life games . It's something that I thoroughly enjoy. It's an easy game to play. You pick up a cue, you smack the white ball into another ball and hope it goes intoa  pocket. There is almost no barrier to entry in pool. You can pick it up and play the game. It's an easy game to play.

That being said, I rarely win at pool. You see, as much as I like it, I just don't have the opportunity to play it very often and so my skill level is rather rudimentary. I often get my butt handed to me by friends and colleagues. Pool is a difficult game to master.

While this argument isn't talking at all about the merits of WoW (I personally don't play it), it does point out a problem with the original interpretation of what the reviewer said.

The problem with MMOs right now, or I should say that the percieved problem with MMOs now as I haven't decided which side of the fence I am personally on on the subject, is not that games are easy. games should be, NEED to be easy to play in order to turn a profit on their multi-million dollar price tags. The barrier to entry MUST BE LOW. The trick is that easy to enter games should also be difficult to master which, granted, is not always the case.

Anyway, I hope that clears things up for you.

 

Stradden you almost basically said the same thing. Games are to easy these days, and World of Warcraft is by far, hands down, one of the easiest MMO's to play. For christ sakes, they have bots that could do almost everything you can think of in World of Warcraft.( if you cheated that is) Now that being said, the reason why games fail is because of what WoW is, an easy game. There would be no way in hell Blizzard could reach 11 miilion subscribers with a challenging game. People are just to lazy in this day and age. They don't want to suffer through 10 hr raids just to only kill one boss because its so freaking hard. They don't want to have to search for a quest, ala EQ. They want things given to them, like items. Look at Warhammer for instance. The one main thing that Mark Jacobs spits out of his mouth is items. He thinks thats what will attract more players. RvR screwed up? Oh well, lemme add more items and easier ways to get them. Theres your instant 1000 subs. The truth is, hes right. 

Think about it, you make a game and try to balance it out for a wider subscription number. You put all these idea's into the game and what do you come up with? An easy game. Now this isn't to say easiness is the only thing that ruins MMO's. But it definitly is one of the main reasons. This review was a bad review btw. Once the reviewer wrote this game is fucking awesome, he lost the review. I don't understand why you think its neccesary for your reviewers to put there own opinions into reviews. I mean seriously, how credible can you take a review that starts off with, "This game is fucking awesome". Does anyone proof read this shit? You don't see newsreporters running around ssaying "OMFG, Obama is here bitches!!!", do you? I know your free workers are not newsreporters, but if they want to be good writiers and move on to other writing careers, you need to correct that, or not care. I'll stop here, because I really enjoy this site sometimes. Good day!

Originally posted by mackdawg19

 You don't see newsreporters running around ssaying "OMFG, Obama is here bitches!!!", do you?

I think i did see this quite a few times acctually :)

Off topic? sure. Worth it? definitely.

Originally posted by mackdawg19

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by demonic87

Easy to Play......

Thats one of the good points? The reason MMO's today are sucking so hard? Wow.... pretty low mmorpg.com..pretty low...

 

I think you may be confusing the term "easy to play" with "easy to master". There's a massive difference between these two terms. A game being easy to play means that in ordeer to pick the game up and enjoy myself with it, I really don't need to doa  whole lot. The barrier to entry is low. That's a near universal positive in the world of games. The bottom line is that if I pick up a game and don't nearly instantly understand the fundamentals, it's not a very well designed game.

Now, easy to master... that's a different story entirely. Games shouldn't be easy to master. There should always be ways to improve from the base. As in any good game, skill should develop over time, with practice.

Let's look at an example from the real world: pool.

Pool is one of my favorite real life games . It's something that I thoroughly enjoy. It's an easy game to play. You pick up a cue, you smack the white ball into another ball and hope it goes intoa  pocket. There is almost no barrier to entry in pool. You can pick it up and play the game. It's an easy game to play.

That being said, I rarely win at pool. You see, as much as I like it, I just don't have the opportunity to play it very often and so my skill level is rather rudimentary. I often get my butt handed to me by friends and colleagues. Pool is a difficult game to master.

While this argument isn't talking at all about the merits of WoW (I personally don't play it), it does point out a problem with the original interpretation of what the reviewer said.

The problem with MMOs right now, or I should say that the percieved problem with MMOs now as I haven't decided which side of the fence I am personally on on the subject, is not that games are easy. games should be, NEED to be easy to play in order to turn a profit on their multi-million dollar price tags. The barrier to entry MUST BE LOW. The trick is that easy to enter games should also be difficult to master which, granted, is not always the case.

Anyway, I hope that clears things up for you.

 

 

Stradden you almost basically said the same thing. Games are to easy these days, and World of Warcraft is by far, hands down, one of the easiest MMO's to play. For christ sakes, they have bots that could do almost everything you can think of in World of Warcraft.( if you cheated that is) Now that being said, the reason why games fail is because of what WoW is, an easy game. There would be no way in hell Blizzard could reach 11 miilion subscribers with a challenging game. People are just to lazy in this day and age. They don't want to suffer through 10 hr raids just to only kill one boss because its so freaking hard. They don't want to have to search for a quest, ala EQ. They want things given to them, like items. Look at Warhammer for instance. The one main thing that Mark Jacobs spits out of his mouth is items. He thinks thats what will attract more players. RvR screwed up? Oh well, lemme add more items and easier ways to get them. Theres your instant 1000 subs. The truth is, hes right. 

Think about it, you make a game and try to balance it out for a wider subscription number. You put all these idea's into the game and what do you come up with? An easy game. Now this isn't to say easiness is the only thing that ruins MMO's. But it definitly is one of the main reasons. This review was a bad review btw. Once the reviewer wrote this game is fucking awesome, he lost the review. I don't understand why you think its neccesary for your reviewers to put there own opinions into reviews. I mean seriously, how credible can you take a review that starts off with, "This game is fucking awesome". Does anyone proof read this shit? You don't see newsreporters running around ssaying "OMFG, Obama is here bitches!!!", do you? I know your free workers are not newsreporters, but if they want to be good writiers and move on to other writing careers, you need to correct that, or not care. I'll stop here, because I really enjoy this site sometimes. Good day!

WoW is a good game. Yea for the most part it is easy to learn and play at least for the most part, so yes I would agree on that. However, it is geared more to the high end/hard core player. Without being in a guild or finding good pug groups you are not going to have the best of equipment. Once you could at least PvP and gain armor by doing battlegrounds and gaining honor to obtain better equipment. Now that is out unless you also do arena.

I for one love to do trade skills but even that is obsurd in many ways with days for a cooldown and poor drop  rates for needed materials. Then most of the trade skills are really pointless because dropped gear is much better than anything that can be made so you are not going to get your money back by doing them or gain enough money to buy your mount or whatever in a real timely fashion.  There may be a few things with this expasion that are useful but the balance and use overall in trade skills is more for fun than making any kind of real money.

All the classes have their good and bad points but I really like the Deathknight. There is many nice things to the new class but I am sure there are some drawbacks as well. So far overal I am enjoying the DK. Are they OP not sure I have always thought the Druid was OP and the any of the Horde have a much better advantage in PvP because their racial traits are actually very useful in PvP where Alliance is not. I for one believe that is because most Bliz employees play a Horde. Thus the advantage.

As for the lag I for one can say it is awful since WotLK. It had began to be a bit of a problem before but yea it is a pain now. I have a cable connection and plenty of memory and a nice graphic card and processor. So you figure it out. I live in US so maybe that has something to do with it but I have Aussie friends that have the lag too. /shrug

Summoning it up yea the new expansion is nice(very nice) but some of the new things suck. WoW is more and more gearing to those hard core players and forgetting that they also have many that can't invest that much time into a game like it or not, RL does come first for some. Job means you got money to pay bills one of which is your lovely WoW account.  If you can spend plenty of time in the game and be able to raid/do battlegrounds and arenas you should be doing flips. If not you are probably like me and not overjoyed at many of the new things that are going to make it less fun to play.

Note:

I for one have not been in many of the instances (raid or otherwise) from the start; many quest are not complete and won't be due to RL and time. So I am sure there will be much of this expansion I will  never see, as I have not with BC or the original either. I am not the only one that hasn't and I realize for this game that will not change.

Many good posts in this thread.

I just wanted to comment on WoW considering I recently quit EVE and tried Archlord and Vanguard and was thinking of coming back to WoW (I played in 2005 and hit level 60 and quit almost immediately after as end-game wasn't appealing to me).

But my experience with WoW is still burned in my head, it was my first true MMO and I liked it for two months until i hit max level. But what really struck with me WoW was its popularity and reasons for it. I find it very clever and interesting to think why does WoW have 11 million subscribers and other games can't even get 5% of that.

Archlord for instance looked nice but it was still kind of grindy. Vanguard looked decent but with the server problems and the visual problems, no wonder it failed. I find it funny how these companies actually think their game will be decent when it is not even finished and has serious issues and is just a poor man's version of WoW.

I think Blizzard designs the best games out there, and by best games, i'm defining it as most popular. Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo 2 (my most addicted game ever by far), WoW have been immensely popular games and it is clear that no one does it better than Blizzard. So why does blizzard usually always succeed?

Because they now their population base and they know what makes people tick. WoW is easy to use which is perfect, it is where EVE fails, WoW has many things to offer and not much of a grind, so all types of people can play it. Once you have this design, make some decent graphics, and seriously, Vanguard is retarded in that i couldn't even play it on my computer. Complete utter failure on Vanguard's part, i just don't get the point of making a game where everyone can't play it on their computer. I thought it was proven that graphics are good but usually not the deciding factor, gameplay trumps graphics.

I personally, would probably not play WoW again as i dont' like raiding and after being a diablo 2 hardcore player, unless getting great gear keeps you alive, there's no point in really getting it. Which comes back to my next point in that, it is of my opinion, why get epic gear in WoW when it doesn't really matter? That's my opinion and i ultimately realize that i'm the minority. I don't like raiding or the end-game in WoW or all the other clone games out there, but i'm the minority, and Blizzard realizes that, and they pander to the majority.

So variety, more raiding, more high level content, easy stuff, slim facile and rudimentary economy, I LOVED EVE's economy, made 20+ Billion in liquid isk when i figured it out :), 1 bil per week. But my main point is that, regardless of what anyone says about WoW, i guarantee you, the majority of people surveyed will be properly and positively piqued by the expansion and that's because blizzard is a master at knowing what people want and giving them.

The reviewer happened to be one of those people. Personally, based on what others say, would have been immensely impressed by a more robust market but that's how my brain works and i'm a minority.

I would have put "easy to play" also on the con list. Its starting to get embarassing.

I thought the reason for such a late review would be that the reviewer wanted a chance to experience the content but clearly he wrote this while still under the influence of his New Year tipple.

Levelling was admittedly a pleasant experience, with the new piloting mechanics giving a nice variety to quests, and the new zones being extremely impressive. However, once you have reached 80 (and you can get there without going to any of the higher level zones, simply do all the quests in lower zones), the game starts to lose its shine.

There is no need to do the level 80 instances on their normal setting, you can simply choose heroic mode and start to farm badges and epics straight away. The difficulty level is ridiculously low, requiring virtually no cc and only one or two bosses pose any challenge for an averagely geared group.

Raids can be PuGGed by any group with even half understanding of their class. This is certainly true for 10 man Naxx and the Wintergrasp boss on both his 25 and 10 man versions. Other bosses and heroic raids are more challenging, but not for any guild who got into even SSC in TBC. I know of players who have full epic sets for their main spec AND for their offspecs, such is the ease of endgame in wotlk.

Now we come to the true mess in wotlk, PvP. Damage has scaled beyond belief, while healthpools and healing have lagged behind. This leads to certain classes two shotting cloth, and perhaps needing to spend a couple more seconds finishing off anyone else. Certain comboes faceroll in 2v2, healers hardly survive long enough to cast a heal, and warlocks are entirely useless. Claims that resilience will fix some of these issues look like PR talk when a 10k ambush will be reduced to at best 7k even at resilience cap.

So in short, I don't believe the reviewer really took his time to experience wotlk, and instead wrote about that initial "wow" feeling he got when he first entered Northrend. Of course that wow is great while it lasts, but now a month and a half later I really am finding it hard to say wow and more often find myself asking why I continue to play what amounts to a McDonalds MMO.

i agree its a great expansion . the only thing i think blizz missed out on was adding more low level content . around the time of the burning crusade there was a huge influx of new players . theres plenty of returning players but it lacks the same buzz as two years ago . having said that this is far far better than the burning crusade .

Ignore Zorndorf his mum works for Blizzard.

Yes I made an account because I couldn't let such a fanboy review go unopposed. You must be a terrible player if you find heroics hard.

What's wrong with gnome Death Knights?

Leveling is not hard this is true. Do the quest and you can reach max level no problem. You don't have to do the quest that might require a group, although it would help.  However, to get better gear you will need to look at instances and raids. It is true that you can probably get pug groups and raids but you still have to do them for better gear. Once you could PvP and do battlegrounds to gain honor points and be able to get deceint gear, but with WotLK that is no longer the case unless you also do Arenas as it takes Arena Points as well. Why? Is Blizz now saying that if you don't PvP completely you can't have even deceint gear? Cloth wearers have always had a bit of a challenge but from what I am hearing now it is worse.  I haven't played any of my clothies yet so can't speak from first hand knowledge yet. I can say though that my honor from battlegrounds before has been wiped with the launch of this expansion. I suppose it doesn't matter as I would not have had arena points to go with them. I for one and not a hard core PvPer nor player and  the money I pay every month is not a drop in the bucket to those who are and who Blizz caters too. Suppose you can't blame them for those are the peeps that keep them going.

Yes WoW is a nice game, great graphics, nice story lines some fun quest(some not so fun) and nice interface. They allow the use of add on which really is useful in playing the game.  All in all I don't have the same lust for the game as I once had.  I began my gaming with Diablo and on to D2, EQ then WoW. Since WoW has geared more and more to the high end and hard core with PvP as well I have tried others like Archlord, Requiem, Shiaya and Atlanica. The latter being the one I most enjoy graphics aren't as beautiful as in any of these and story lines are not as complete but I can play and have fun and feel like I have to be a hard core player to do so.  No none of these will last as long as WoW but I am not paying $15.00 a month plus the added expansion cost to not have fun. Nice graphics and story lines are not going to last forever and even Hard Core get bored after a time. Many came back with this expansion but they will get bored again and they will wander again.

My gift at Christmas was a game card and the expansion I am not sure I will continue after my card runs out.

Oh there is nothing wrong with a gnome DK that is what I chose. Course be prepared to not be taken seriously due to your size. All I can say is dynamite comes in small packages.

My vision of mmorpg gaming is dead.  

I have to agree that being easy to play is good in terms of getting money for a company and getting a high subscription rate, but not good for us old school gamers. I'm pretty new to MMORPG (as the amount of posts can tell and my join date, although I have been reading articles on here for months), but I've been playing MMOs since MUDs, and Ultima Online was my first actual "MMO" game that I subscribed too.

That said, I hate the fact that WoW is so "easy to play". That's why when Tasos posted the beta quotes a couple of months ago and a lot of them said "the starting areas are too hard" or "I've never wanted to kill a mob so badly", I got a hard on. Us "old-schoolers", if you want to call us that, NEED and DESIRE a dangerous, hard game out there. I'm cautious with Darkfall because it has promised too much and I've fallen for hype before, but we need SOMETHING, and I don't think being "easy to play" is a pro for many of us out there.

Why don't people focus on the one thing which has always been WoW's problem since day 1: The lack of things to do at max level.

Seriously? Raid or PVP? Why? Raid for better gear? So you can do what exactly? What does PVP do for anyone? Does it alter the game world? Can you capture territtory? No, of course not. WoW is the definition of a themepark game.

I wanted to like WoW. I have friends who play WoW. But as much as I try, I just could never get into it for more than a month. SWG spoiled me I suppose. 

I agree with the poster who said that his vision of MMORPGs is dead. The success of WoW has pretty much ended all possibility of the seamless, player driven, classless, leveless, open-ended MMO design that I loved so much.

Now people pay to play single player RPGs with multiplayer capability.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Why don't people focus on the one thing which has always been WoW's problem since day 1: The lack of things to do at max level.

Seriously? Raid or PVP? Why? Raid for better gear? So you can do what exactly? What does PVP do for anyone? Does it alter the game world? Can you capture territtory? No, of course not. WoW is the definition of a themepark game.

I wanted to like WoW. I have friends who play WoW. But as much as I try, I just could never get into it for more than a month. SWG spoiled me I suppose. 

I agree with the poster who said that his vision of MMORPGs is dead. The success of WoW has pretty much ended all possibility of the seamless, player driven, classless, leveless, open-ended MMO design that I loved so much.

Now people pay to play single player RPGs with multiplayer capability.

Sorry, but I had to quote this for truth.

I was so bored of WoW before the expansion.  I bought it in the hopes of rekindling some passion for it, but I got to level 74 and quit.  I just can't be bothered doing more of the same old same-old.  More levelling, more grinding, collect 10 of this and 10 of that etc.

Raiding it not something I enjoy any more, mostly due to the high amount of overconfident spotty-virgins and their purple-pixel envy.  Meh.  Not only that but most of the new games over the past few years have tried to copy all this crap like it's the best thing since bread and butter.

I simply can't stand the 'forced in to one class with levels' formula.  It worked for paper-based D&D with maybe 4 players and a GM - it's total garbage in a pvp environment.  It's Darkfall or Bust for me now. If it flops I think I'll give up MMORPGs completely.

I agree with all points of review except for the score, I would give it an 8.

Gnome Death Knights as a con? I always planned if I went back to WoW with WotLK and made a Death Knight I would definately go Gnome.

Originally posted by Kasmos

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Why don't people focus on the one thing which has always been WoW's problem since day 1: The lack of things to do at max level.

Seriously? Raid or PVP? Why? Raid for better gear? So you can do what exactly? What does PVP do for anyone? Does it alter the game world? Can you capture territtory? No, of course not. WoW is the definition of a themepark game.

I wanted to like WoW. I have friends who play WoW. But as much as I try, I just could never get into it for more than a month. SWG spoiled me I suppose. 

I agree with the poster who said that his vision of MMORPGs is dead. The success of WoW has pretty much ended all possibility of the seamless, player driven, classless, leveless, open-ended MMO design that I loved so much.

Now people pay to play single player RPGs with multiplayer capability.

 

Sorry, but I had to quote this for truth.

Amen to that.

Once I had completed all the current high end content I took stock of what was next for my Druid, hmm cooking dailies or the HC dailies or perhaps even go and grind some leathers to get that last point in LW, then it struck me, I'd been sitting there for perhaps 30 minutes trying to decide what type of grinding I wanted to do, grinding = MMO death knell.

I've played the expansion and seen all that it currently has to offer, it lasted me 2 months and thats not bad for the £19.00 I spent, but for now I've quit WoW, well until 2 yrs time when thier next expansion comes out, back to playing DDO with my kids for now =).

Originally posted by qbangy32

 back to playing DDO with my kids for now =).

I've given some serious thought to trying to set up a pen and paper D&D game, as some of my friends have.

At least then I would have the cusomtization and creativity that I crave in games.

Thanks for the review. I understand where you're comming from. you are just pointing out somethings you like and dislike. Don't know why people get offended. My connectin is horrible and my computer is lame. yet somehow it manages to play wow really well sure it lags sometimes and we get mad because we are gamers. we rant yet we understand that its still good.

Yeah I wouldn't want to wait for consumer service either. I've found one game where you are instantly connected with a GM in a matter of minutes or seconds. But wow has a lot of players can't help everyone at once. Although if they did it might make their business better and players more loyal maybe.....

I'm gonna go ahead an disagree with the review. Wrath of the Lich King is great if you are a huge carebear. If you enjoy games that require no skill, it is a game for you. If you enjoy spending hours getting items that will be useless is a few weeks, it is a good game for you. If you would like to give up your social life to be good at a game, then Wrath of the Lich King is great for you.

If you are looking for an MMO that requires skill, isn't repatitive, and doesn't require you give up your life to be good, then you shouldn't play Wrath of the Lich King. Blizzard is now just stuffing it pockets with the subscriptions from 12 year old boys who want to be uber-leet gamers, so they made this expansion. That and they wanted to take key features from Warhammer, and add it to their game.

That is my Wrath of the Lich King review.

Nice review.

After 4 years of raiding/cancelling/differentMMOS, all i can say is WoW-WotLK... is worth every penny.

I've never been so relaxed in all my mmo experience. The difficulty of the game is on the spot. No more boring faction grinds like before. Tradeskill stuff that actually sell! I can do RL stuff, in-game quests, PvP, and raid all in the same day. Now that's what mmorpgs should be like. No more long timesink grinds that's not really productive overall. No more over the top depressing raid boss wipes. PvP actually looks for me not the other way around.

People say it's too easy. EASY? No skill? I don't see everybody having the same raiding gear and arena gear. It's challenging enough to give you those "YESS !#%#%king YESSS!! WOO!!" ear destroying screams over vent after a boss kill or an achievement. It's easy enough to give you enough time for IRL and in-game productivity. My subscription is finally paying for happiness and not raidwipe-stress and "oh god how many hours do i need to complete these?" game experience.

My raiding guild(which is numero uno horde side !EPEEN!) runs 3 groups of 10manRaids and 2 groups of 25manRaids 3 days a week and the rest of the week for world PvP, BG, arena, and extra personal IRL stuff.

Thank you Blizzard for making a game that will piss off people who are too smart to be wasting their brains playing mmorpgs--that's you mr."hardcore". This game is perfect for the raiding PvErs and the bloodthirsty PvPers. That's WotLK4U.

I think WoW is very good entertainment. Its even that good, that it attracts people who never bothered to play computergames before. Why? Because it is so easy to get into and unlike many people think, also easy to master.

Challenging gameplay is not having to grind epic gear so you can soak up more dmg and deal more dmg. That is just what i call a treadmill preparation. But also a reason why many WoW players like WoW. After a hard day of work, they log into their favourite fantasy world and mindlessly do some fighting, crafting, rping or whatever. It is comparable to watching a movie or listening music. They also dont take an effort.

WoW is pure entertainment, not a gamer's game. There is nothing wrong with that and subscriptions also show it sells very well.

The players that want longer learning curves, complexity in crafting, tough AI, they move on after a short while of playing WoW. But those are apparently in the minority, so you cant really blame Blizzard for creating THE mainstream MMO.

I played wow from beta until april 2007.  In that time my guild raided all the end game content except the very final encounters in aq40 (fought but didnt win) and naxrammus.  During that time I enjoyed what blizzard had made but it became obvious that they had run out of ideas. The raid encounters became overly complicated and annoying rather than fun and it didnt look like they had any way of changing this.

then blizzard dropped the raid numbers down to 25, killed my guild and said "its ok, you can grind faction by repeating the same instances over and over".

I think I peaked too early. The game was great in the first 2 years and I played it too much but there is nothing new there except rehashing of other games ideas (which they did in the first place but at first it was a nice change - a game that didnt want you to spend an hour walking somewhere just to drag out the lack of pve content - places were actually interesting). 

then grind. now walrus men. go figure.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Why don't people focus on the one thing which has always been WoW's problem since day 1: The lack of things to do at max level.

Seriously? Raid or PVP? Why? Raid for better gear? So you can do what exactly? What does PVP do for anyone? Does it alter the game world? Can you capture territtory? No, of course not. WoW is the definition of a themepark game.

I wanted to like WoW. I have friends who play WoW. But as much as I try, I just could never get into it for more than a month. SWG spoiled me I suppose. 

I agree with the poster who said that his vision of MMORPGs is dead. The success of WoW has pretty much ended all possibility of the seamless, player driven, classless, leveless, open-ended MMO design that I loved so much.

Now people pay to play single player RPGs with multiplayer capability.

Hear hear. I agree entirely, 100%.

Hell, several people I know who play WoW share your view. They play WoW, basically, because many of their friends do and they get to "hang out", and nothing more. They find the game itself boring.

WoW did to the MMO genre what has happened in every other genre that's become popular... FPS, RTS, you name it. As soon as a game comes that is a "breakthrough", all ingenuity, originality and willingness to try something new or different halts. Suddenly, companies who wouldn't touch MMOs before are hopping on the bandwagon to get their piece of the pie. And what do they all do? They try to copy WoW, of course.

At the same time that Blizzard has broken MMOs wide-open into the "mainstream", they have created the barrier around and stagnated what made the genre popular in the first place; in particular, the open-ended, classless, player-driven elements that you mention in your post, Daedalus.

I have personally separated WoW and its ilk into their own sub-category, which I call "Massively Multiplayer Online Action Games". Because, to me, they've practically stripped out all the classic elements of a RPG.

In traditional RPGs, you have to seek out NPCs and see what they might have to say to you, do they have a quest, etc. In WoW, there's zero exploration necessary... the big yellow ! over their head says it all. No need to wonder which NPC in the entire village you have to talk to next in the quest line.. the big yellow ? over their head shines like a beacon... Even if they're indoors, no problem. The mini-map in the compass will display where they are as well.

In traditional RPGs, getting a quest usually means some major task that can take days to complete (not necessarily in one stretch). In WoW and its ilk, the typical quest is "go kill 20 boars and bring me their tusks". That's not a quest. That's a task.

In traditional RPGs, you have to actually seek out an object, or objects required for a quest, and they may not always be easy to find. In WoW and its ilk, quest objects now give off sparkles that you can see from 100 feet away, thus eliminating the only bit that actually required player effort to complete. It's now basically "run and collect the sparkly things and then run back to the NPC with the ? over its head and get your reward".

In traditional RPGs, the journey is as much part of the experience as the destination. In WoW and its ilk, it's "all about getting to end-game as fast as possible". Many people deem the grind to level cap ("the real game" as many call it), to be too slow and a waste of time.

And I can keep going with the examples. It's great that Blizzard seem to have put more focus on the story in WoTLK and started implementing in-game cut-scenes as a way of moving the story forward. It's about time, frankly... Guild Wars (whether you think it's a "real MMO" or not) and FFXI have been doing this for years... to name just two. The previous Warcraft games were big on cinematics, so I don't know why they waited so long to continue that into WoW.

Hell, even the one thing that is brought up as "proof that WoW is challenging", raid bosses, seem to be  too much for many players. I've seen numerous posts calling for raid bosses to be made soloable and/or take less time; because "being forced to group up for a raid boss isn't fair". Given enough time, I'm sure even those people will get their wish.

In all, to me, calling WoW a MMORPG is a misnomer. The game's focus is quite obviously on action and rapid progress, with RPG elements being demoted to near non-existence.

It's great what Blizzard have done and no one can deny their success, no matter what you think of WoW. But man it annoys me what they've done to the genre overall.

a 9.2 score is not inline at all with the other reviews on this site.

LoTRO = 8.5

EVE = 8.5

EQ2 = 7.9

UO = 7.8

WoW = 8.1

i do not think WoLK deserves more than a 8, but to each his own.

Looking over some of the responses saying that WoW is a "challenge", I have to wonder if a challenge should be something more than avoiding accidentally aggroing a mob that results in a wipe of the group and mobs that are a challenge because they have a lot of hit points and highly damaging attacks.

It would also be nice if these raids and PVP had some wider effect on the game world. Not to mention that a company doing as well as Blizzard ought to have the funds to implement a few features in WoW that have proven to be quite successful in other games, such as player cities and housing.

very biased review,  and very unrealistic review compared to alot of other creditable reviews as well.

Originally posted by Gikku

WoW is a good game. Yea for the most part it is easy to learn and play at least for the most part, so yes I would agree on that. However, it is geared more to the high end/hard core player. Without being in a guild or finding good pug groups you are not going to have the best of equipment. Once you could at least PvP and gain armor by doing battlegrounds and gaining honor to obtain better equipment. Now that is out unless you also do arena.

Summoning it up yea the new expansion is nice(very nice) but some of the new things suck. WoW is more and more gearing to those hard core players and forgetting that they also have many that can't invest that much time into a game like it or not, RL does come first for some. Job means you got money to pay bills one of which is your lovely WoW account.  If you can spend plenty of time in the game and be able to raid/do battlegrounds and arenas you should be doing flips. If not you are probably like me and not overjoyed at many of the new things that are going to make it less fun to play.

Lets se i have pugged 25 naxx, os, mylagos ... so i would think this x-pack was for causal players seeing as ANYONE can jump into lfg and get into a pug and literally finish end game content atm.

Actually I found that D&D MMO to be far more "Easy". The Eberron one. I don't find the raids to be that easy at all. The Naxx one with the fire wall was pretty tough and their was another with a giant beattle guy. Though he was bugged I'm told so that explains his cheapness.

WTF is with all these people calling for player housing? How can you complain about the pointless grinds and achievements and then bother asking for an online dollhouse? I'm all for more storage, but I don't think they need to add housing just for that. If I wanted to decorate a house, I'd do so IRL.

Give a gnome some LOVE!!!

Originally posted by Sanguinia

WTF is with all these people calling for player housing? How can you complain about the pointless grinds and achievements and then bother asking for an online dollhouse? I'm all for more storage, but I don't think they need to add housing just for that. If I wanted to decorate a house, I'd do so IRL.

How ironic!

The same can be said of Raiding. If I wanted to have better gear (read clothes) then I'd do so IRL and go to a shop and buy me some new fancy clothes.

So your point is pretty mute. 

WoW is one of those topics that gets a good deal of attention. I think anyone who has played it and even many who have not, have their opinions on the game.

The topic at hand however, is the review of the WotLK expansion and not WoW itself.

Q. How do I feel about WotLK after the review?

A - I have no idea. The review mentions customer service which has nothing to do with the expansion whatsoever. It does make mention of some hardware issues like Graphics and Sound but there is not much depth to it.  There is also very little talk about content other than how wonderful it is.  I appreciate the reviewer is a fan of the game and being a fan does not disqualify him from being a reviewer or making an honest and unbiased review.

Unfortunately and with all do respect to him and MMORPG's staff, that is not what we got here.  The review tells me nothing about the expansion other than it's <expletive> awesome. Such a review only serves to further the notion of fanboyism and re-open what are really pointless debates on the pros and cons of WoW itself.

The reviewer mentions three Cons in the side teaser but only talks about two of them. The blurb about the Gnome Death Knights was actually eye catching and I wanted to read the review to see why that was. Nowhere in the review did I see any mention of the reason why the reviewer dislikes Gnome Death Knights. (If I am wrong on that someone feel free to point it out.)

So how do I feel about WotLK after the review?

I really do not know.

Originally posted by Sanguinia

WTF is with all these people calling for player housing? How can you complain about the pointless grinds and achievements and then bother asking for an online dollhouse? I'm all for more storage, but I don't think they need to add housing just for that. If I wanted to decorate a house, I'd do so IRL.

You could make that argument for almost anything in the game. The entire reason we play these games is because we would never be able to do ALL of these activities in real life, and certainly not to the extent or without the threat of dying. Someone once posted this "advertisement" on these forums and I think it says it all:

triptronix.net/ishbadiddle/images/outsidecj0.jpg

A house isn't about storage. And the fact that you would consider a house to be nothing but a storage box speaks volumes about how people regard MMOs today. Housing and player cities are about creating a virtual world rather than a virtual themepark. Do you really think that your epic, l33t warrior would be homeless after completeing the most difficult raiding dungeons? If so, that's pretty sad.

When I played SWG, I was extremely proud of my house. I will never have a house like that in real life, and so that game allowed me to do something and feel like I had a second home somewhere else. But that's what these games are supposed to be about and what has been completely lacking in most MMOs: virtual immersion.

WOTLK - Is a casual player expansion. My guild cleared all raid content by 12/1. It's such a joke I quit playing my main and left my guild. I play to raid and kill the biggest mobs in the game. Any PUG can do that now.

Achievements? Who cares. They are nothing more than a time waster. Big deal. So I cleared Naxx. Now lets do it with 21. Now lets do it naked using only one hand standing on one leg. Big deal. We cleared the content, its NOT fresh or new just because you do it with 21 or with 3 drakes up. Again, big deal.

LAG - OMG Lag. My guild had to start raiding at 12midnight east just to be able to raid. I swear we fought ONE trash spider pack for at least 5-10m one night.

Diversity? What's that? Everyone looks even more the same now. Epic gear means nothing, raid gear means nothing. I would say the effort and time put into raiding should get you something different but to be honest there is not a lot of time or effort anymore. Simply login, AOE everything down and stay out of the fire. That's really all raiding in WOW has come too. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

So yeah, if you login for an hour or two every day or so, I bet WOTLK is cool to you. Specially if your idea of raiding is joining a PUG and clearing all the lvl 25m content. Yep, I bet it's real cool. However, to those like myself that have played Wow from day one and enjoyed the more CHALLENGING aspects of the game.....it's not so cool.

So I quit raiding. Playing my DK now just for kicks. I will wait and see what the next content patch provides and if it's more challenging then  I will go back to raiding. Till then I will just relax :)

I agree with most of what the review had to say, Blizzard is very good at delivering a polished game... Though like many others I'm awaiting the new content and hoping it will be harder. I do understand why they made WotLK version of Kara(Nax) easier for new comers who have never raided, but I think they could have tweaked it up a little. Arthas should be quite contenting.

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Sanguinia

WTF is with all these people calling for player housing? How can you complain about the pointless grinds and achievements and then bother asking for an online dollhouse? I'm all for more storage, but I don't think they need to add housing just for that. If I wanted to decorate a house, I'd do so IRL.

 

How ironic!

The same can be said of Raiding. If I wanted to have better gear (read clothes) then I'd do so IRL and go to a shop and buy me some new fancy clothes.

So your point is pretty mute. 

I don't think my point is moot at all. I never said I was a raider. In fact, I don't raid. Closest I came to it was my friend came over once and logged in his character and let me Frost Bolt the Fire Lord for five minutes. Cool, but... meh. I do my own thing in mmos. Housing just doesn't seem epic. Sounds rather lame. "Ooh, let's decorate my house!" Sounds like something out of Neopets. Me, I just like killing monsters. If there were zombies invading, I wouldn't even play games. I'd be out there killing those damn-dirty zombies. [They're trying to take our jobs, you know?]

Originally posted by Sanguinia

 Me, I just like killing monsters. If there were zombies invading, I wouldn't even play games. I'd be out there killing those damn-dirty zombies. [They're trying to take our jobs, you know?]

I think that sums up the problem right there. You have no problem with the endless repetition of killing monsters, so you can't appreciate anything not associated with combat. MMOs were once upon a time focused more on creating a vibrant community with as many opportunities to fight as to so socialize, craft, and feel like you were apart of and shaped the world around you, rather than riding themepark rides.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Sanguinia

 Me, I just like killing monsters. If there were zombies invading, I wouldn't even play games. I'd be out there killing those damn-dirty zombies. [They're trying to take our jobs, you know?]

 

I think that sums up the problem right there. You have no problem with the endless repetition of killing monsters, so you can't appreciate anything not associated with combat. MMOs were once upon a time focused more on creating a vibrant community with as many opportunities to fight as to so socialize, craft, and feel like you were apart of and shaped the world around you, rather than riding themepark rides.

Meh, when I was younger I was a role-player. AD&D for ages. [the real role-playing] That's immersive. This is a video game. Most people [WoW numbers] just play to relax. Sure, some socialize and blah blah blah, but that's not for me. Ever try to hold a conversation with people in an mmo? UGH! Between the kids who think saying "Vagina" in public chat = comedy, or the PvP'ers who hop constantly and aggro an entire room full of mobs only to complain when we all die, or the blind invites for no reason and the gold farmers... UGH! And the spammers! Constant. Freaking. Spam! Socialization is what ruins the immersion and feel of the world you're playing in. Other than that, there's only so much you can do to feel like part of the world around you. In my opinion, that'd be more of an immersion thing than a socialization/crafting issue. Those things wouldn't make someone feel like part of a world just.. part of a guild, or something.

And to me, it's not just combat, it's how it's done. I have a Druid in WoW, and he has Cat Form. Meaning, he can turn into a "panther" [I don't know what the damn thing is supposed to be. It's some kind of cat.] And I imagine him to be developing animal instincts. Especially since I have him mostly fight in Cat Form. So, he spends less time in his normal Elven form. And that type of little thing amuses me. But, when I approach NPCs nine times out of ten, I'll switch out of Cat Form because to me they'd figure he was some damn "panther" or whatever, just coming out of the forest at them. And even if they would figure that it's a Druid, how would they know which one? All of the Cat Forms look alike on the same faction. So, that's the type of thing I do. It's not just about swinging a sword or slinging a spell. [Though, my Warlock does have macros for most of his casting time spells! One spell I even took portions derived from the Necronomicon! That is where I get my fun! That's where I'm coming from. It's not just "kilz more monstars plz!"]

Originally posted by Bravnik

WOTLK - Is a casual player expansion. My guild cleared all raid content by 12/1. It's such a joke I quit playing my main and left my guild. I play to raid and kill the biggest mobs in the game. Any PUG can do that now.

Achievements? Who cares. They are nothing more than a time waster. Big deal. So I cleared Naxx. Now lets do it with 21. Now lets do it naked using only one hand standing on one leg. Big deal. We cleared the content, its NOT fresh or new just because you do it with 21 or with 3 drakes up. Again, big deal.

LAG - OMG Lag. My guild had to start raiding at 12midnight east just to be able to raid. I swear we fought ONE trash spider pack for at least 5-10m one night.

Diversity? What's that? Everyone looks even more the same now. Epic gear means nothing, raid gear means nothing. I would say the effort and time put into raiding should get you something different but to be honest there is not a lot of time or effort anymore. Simply login, AOE everything down and stay out of the fire. That's really all raiding in WOW has come too. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

So yeah, if you login for an hour or two every day or so, I bet WOTLK is cool to you. Specially if your idea of raiding is joining a PUG and clearing all the lvl 25m content. Yep, I bet it's real cool. However, to those like myself that have played Wow from day one and enjoyed the more CHALLENGING aspects of the game.....it's not so cool.

So I quit raiding. Playing my DK now just for kicks. I will wait and see what the next content patch provides and if it's more challenging then  I will go back to raiding. Till then I will just relax :)

Great post, actually more informative than the original review, which I agree is a joke.

People that say this game is easy to play, hard to master are delusional. There was a time when this may have been more true, but the game has been cooked down to the easiest common min/max denominator.

The new dungeons are uninspired, the quest flow completely compartmentalized, and the old world of the game, which was very well done, completely trivialized.

Sure it gives everyone who is casual, or came late to the game, a mee too I am a badass feeling.

But truly talented hardcore players? Meh, get off my lawn!

I agree to a certain point, but compared to the Burning Crusade and the original game release, this is by far the best pack they have come out with to date.

Blizzard has been able to take the normal everyday grind and bring it to a level that is just overall enjoyable.  If you know anything of the Warcraft series, the story of the Lich King, and the creation of the undead prevails as one of the most enthralling and engrossing aspects of the game.  I am hoping this is a turnaround to the direction that the Blizzard games has been taking.  Since the release of Diablo 2 I have thought that their quality has been going downhill.

Their games are always good for at least 10 years if not more which is a heavy reputation to carry.  I am finally glad to see that one of their recent games has been given a good review.  The only problem here is that it will take you some time to get your toon to level 68 to actually play the game.  And it will cost you quite a bit of money.  But the price of the original game and the Burning Crusade expansion has come down.  So you will be saving alot more then those of us who have been with it since the beginning.

Slowly, Blizzard has turned the MMO into an online amusement park.  Which explains the large attraction to the game for people of all ages.  It still has the grind that most MMOs have but it has taken it one step further by introducing amusement type park things to do.  (i.e. leaping on the backs of giants, taking control of robots, flying dragons into battle).

For me, going from level 70-80 has probably been the most enjoyable thing I have done in an MMO so far, though I have only played 6 or 7 of them.  Also the instances seem more centralized as in most players can go into them, including the heroics level once they reach level 80.  Some of the players I have talked to complain about this saying that they are too easy but I dont see it that way.  I guess if you plan to play this game as a life long game and it being the only game that you play that would be annoying.  Only problem I had personally with them is that they were too short.

There are many subplots or chains off the original story to get involved in and don't forget to team up with somebody though they have made it so in most cases you can solo many of the quests.  It will make it that much more enjoyable.  The soloing prolly came from the complaints that you can not get things done in the other packs without grouping.

I highly recommend this game.

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On the down side I have a few complaints.  I would imagine that Blizzard made the game to be family oriented, just as the team who is putting together Star Trek Online plans to do.  Well WOTLK looks it.  To me it looks so family oriented as to almost be a saturday morning kiddie cartoon.  I am not saying it is not fun, it is alot of fun.  I am just saying per the artwork and the overall design, its appears to me to be a bit more geared towards the kiddies.  I see that in the artwork, and I see that in the gameplay as well.  Now I could get into a discussion of what I consider to be mature or non-mature artwork but I am just mentioning this briefly.  Afterall, Blizzard designed this game to be family oriented.  Which by far it is.  Far from me to say that their should be different styles of artwork in a game for the money that is paid out.

The instances are too short.  Compared to the past instances in BC and WOW, they are maybe 1/2 the distance and time for completion.  They are immense and huge as are with most WOW instances but to complete them for your quests or dropped itmes it takes far less time.

Oh and I have to mention the crowd, I have maybe 10 servers with characters on them, both alliance and horde and have to say that WOW players are still some of the most greedy, self-centered and rude individuals I have ever played with.

It is not unusual for a 25. 10 or 5 man team to kick someone because they do not like the damage they are doing or the way they are playing.  Plus, they act as if they would kill someone in real life over the attainment of one elite item.  The language, attitudes, and overall  consciousness of the players seems almost to be in league with the Lich King himself.  Also with an extreme gang appeal.

Lastly I have to mention the battlegrounds.  With games like Team Fortress, Battlefield 2, Enemy Territories Quake Wars I find it uncomprehensible to see that WOW has only 5 battlegrounds if you include the new Wintersgrasp.  True their seems to be different arenas that you can enter to PVP in but if you compared what WOW is offering to play against other players and games like those I mentioned above, for the money that I have payed out you would think they would have maybe 50 or 60 arenas and battlegrounds.  It just does not make sense.  I have to give credit to Guild Wars for having the system that they do over WOW.

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The reviewer here gave it a 9.2 and called it fantastic.  I am sorry but I can't go that high.  To me an MMO should last a lifetime.  I have already spoken to individuals that that appeal does not hold for WOW.  Level to 80, get what you can and quit.  Partly I blame this on the price.  I find it sad that games like Guild Wars will be adhering to $14.99 or so a month with the release of GW2 following in the footsteps of WOW. 

As I said, I feel an MMO should be a hobbie, lasting for a long time, much like collecting trains, model airplanes, or cars.  I dont feel that WOW has that sort of appeal.  The games is turning into a buy the 'in' sneaker or cellphone that their friends have that seems to happen amongst most groups or high school crowds.  Most of the people that seem to be playing it is because their friends are playing it, as if they 'have' to play it because their friends are.  I really wonder just how many people actually like it.

I hate to give out numbers but if I have to with this I would give it a 'good' rating of 8.0.  It is by far the best of the 3 but the overall childish feel that the game has which the players also help to create, the rigid artwork, and strict "don't go off the bleedin' track" gameplay gives it that score for me.  Plenty to do, lots of fun to have, but once finished my interest drops to 0 and the boredom rate happens real fast.  At least for this player it does. 

Get off my lawn you kids!

 Critics ratings of Lich King pwns WoW haters.

the review was like done by someone who started gaming a year ago.

Originally posted by Bravnik

WOTLK - Is a casual player expansion. My guild cleared all raid content by 12/1. It's such a joke I quit playing my main and left my guild. I play to raid and kill the biggest mobs in the game. Any PUG can do that now.

Achievements? Who cares. They are nothing more than a time waster. Big deal. So I cleared Naxx. Now lets do it with 21. Now lets do it naked using only one hand standing on one leg. Big deal. We cleared the content, its NOT fresh or new just because you do it with 21 or with 3 drakes up. Again, big deal.

LAG - OMG Lag. My guild had to start raiding at 12midnight east just to be able to raid. I swear we fought ONE trash spider pack for at least 5-10m one night.

Diversity? What's that? Everyone looks even more the same now. Epic gear means nothing, raid gear means nothing. I would say the effort and time put into raiding should get you something different but to be honest there is not a lot of time or effort anymore. Simply login, AOE everything down and stay out of the fire. That's really all raiding in WOW has come too. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

So yeah, if you login for an hour or two every day or so, I bet WOTLK is cool to you. Specially if your idea of raiding is joining a PUG and clearing all the lvl 25m content. Yep, I bet it's real cool. However, to those like myself that have played Wow from day one and enjoyed the more CHALLENGING aspects of the game.....it's not so cool.

So I quit raiding. Playing my DK now just for kicks. I will wait and see what the next content patch provides and if it's more challenging then  I will go back to raiding. Till then I will just relax :)

I see your point. Luckily for me, I don't raid anymore due to the time requierements (I don't do PUGs) and the fact that patched can nerf a lot of work (i.e. special gear not being special anymore). So with my 2 - 3 h max a day it is really okay, since I will never get to see all contents anyway.

the typical problem of all MMOs - casual versus hardcore....

why don't you try EQ1 or L2 ? you'll get some raiding there which is not possible with PUGs.

Originally posted by Sanguinia

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Sanguinia

WTF is with all these people calling for player housing? How can you complain about the pointless grinds and achievements and then bother asking for an online dollhouse? I'm all for more storage, but I don't think they need to add housing just for that. If I wanted to decorate a house, I'd do so IRL.

 

How ironic!

The same can be said of Raiding. If I wanted to have better gear (read clothes) then I'd do so IRL and go to a shop and buy me some new fancy clothes.

So your point is pretty mute. 

 

I don't think my point is moot at all. I never said I was a raider. In fact, I don't raid. Closest I came to it was my friend came over once and logged in his character and let me Frost Bolt the Fire Lord for five minutes. Cool, but... meh. I do my own thing in mmos. Housing just doesn't seem epic. Sounds rather lame. "Ooh, let's decorate my house!" Sounds like something out of Neopets. Me, I just like killing monsters. If there were zombies invading, I wouldn't even play games. I'd be out there killing those damn-dirty zombies. [They're trying to take our jobs, you know?]

He never said you were a raider. He was applying your view of housing to other aspects of the game, specifically raiding for better gear. Nowhere does he say "You're a raider", or even imply it.

That said, the larger point I think you're missing (and many players, in their rather short-sighted view of "what a game should be") is that just because *you* personally wouldn't enjoy it doesn't mean there aren't many, many others who would. Don't like private housing? Don't get a private house. Simple.

What he says about older MMORPGs is true as well - regardless of your personal experiences with AD&D. Before WoW came along and stripped out almost all the aspects of a player-influenced-world, many MMOs were focused on things like housing, a deeper crafting system, and other elements that made building and nurturing a community as much part of the game as going out and slaying beasts.

Just because it doesn't appeal to someone like yourself, or to someone else who'd rather spend their time killing mobs, doesn't mean it would be useless.

Would you seriously want to deprive numerous others something they'd personally enjoy, simply because you don't? That would be a bit selfish, wouldn't it?

There's a certain response that last bit that I'm almost anticipating.. but I don't want to seem like I'm putting words in anyone's mouth.. so I'll wait and see if someone actually says it before commenting on it :-p

Originally posted by Kalay

The reviewer here gave it a 9.2 and called it fantastic.  I am sorry but I can't go that high.  To me an MMO should last a lifetime.  I have already spoken to individuals that that appeal does not hold for WOW.  Level to 80, get what you can and quit.  Partly I blame this on the price.  I find it sad that games like Guild Wars will be adhering to $14.99 or so a month with the release of GW2 following in the footsteps of WOW. 

Actually, they'd be following in the foot-steps of many, many pay-to-play MMOs that came along long before WoW. Blizzard did not invent subscription-based online games, no more than they created the MMORPG.

Once upon a time, some MMOs billed on an hourly basis. Imagine paying those bills?

And, in another context, it's a commonly held fact that MMORPGs are more a "service" than they are a game. You buy a single player game and receive a finite amount of content (player-made content notwithstanding where applicable). It's a one-time deal. MMOs, on the other hand, are an on-going service that continue to expand, adding updates, patches, providing in-game events, etc. They are not finite, but can continue to grow and expand as long as the company continues to support it. Besides that there is the cost of hardware, bandwidth and of course paying the employees who develop, test and implement the new content, who design and run in-game events, etc.

I'm not sure how ArenaNet makes money on Guild Wars with no subscription. They don't even have an item shop (thankfully) like other free-to-play MMOs do.

Personally, I'm glad if they are going with a monthly subscription. If it's not going to be a one-time purchase like GW is and they're going to implement a way of making money, a subscription fee is the most fair way to go about it. Unlike "Item Malls", a flat subscription fee helps to maintain a level playing field where everyone has the same resources available to them in-game and how much extra real-world money you have to spend on in-game items doesn't have any part in the design (RMT notwithstanding... they aren't playing the game as designed).

As I said, I feel an MMO should be a hobbie, lasting for a long time, much like collecting trains, model airplanes, or cars.  I dont feel that WOW has that sort of appeal.  The games is turning into a buy the 'in' sneaker or cellphone that their friends have that seems to happen amongst most groups or high school crowds.  Most of the people that seem to be playing it is because their friends are playing it, as if they 'have' to play it because their friends are.  I really wonder just how many people actually like it.

Regardless, if you enjoy a hobby like collecting trains, model airplanes or cars, you'd expect to spend money to maintain and expand on that collection wouldn't you? And probably a lot more than a $14 or $15 monthly sub.

I think people focus so much on the "monthly subscription" part that they lose perspective of just how little that is compared to the many other things people do for entertainment, spending far more than $15 in a single evening, much less an entire month. A MMO subscription is one of the cheapest forms of sustained entertainment you can find with a price-tag. You're paying about 50 cents a day to play a MMO as many or as few hours as you wish. Last I checked you can't even get a single game on many arcade machines for that little.

That said, whatever the reason people are playing the game, they're paying to play it just like everyone else. If you don't want to pay the subscription fee, you don't play. There seems to be an overtone of "people play because their friends do", as in peer-pressure... Frankly, that's not Blizzard's problem. People play for their own reasons and Blizzard's only responsibility is to provide the service they're charging for.

I hate to give out numbers but if I have to with this I would give it a 'good' rating of 8.0.  It is by far the best of the 3 but the overall childish feel that the game has which the players also help to create, the rigid artwork, and strict "don't go off the bleedin' track" gameplay gives it that score for me.  Plenty to do, lots of fun to have, but once finished my interest drops to 0 and the boredom rate happens real fast.  At least for this player it does. 

Heh, I'll go one step farther... the gameplay of WoW bores the hell out of me. I tried, 5 different times, the last 3 on by the urging of friends and/or family, who *swore* if I just let them show me how great WoW is, I'd be hooked. Guaranteed.

Didn't happen.

I get to the 30-40 range and I just run out of steam. Logging in seems to be more effort than it's worth. Of course, I'm told by them all that "I didn't give it a fair chance", which I laugh at. I gave it *5* wholehearted tries, from as far back as the game's launch to as recently as a couple months ago. It's just not for me... they just can't accept it. Ah well. To each their own.

For me, personally, WoW as a whole gets around a 6. I give it high points in terms of polish and world presentation (its stylized graphics are subject of much controversy, but I personally think they're fine) . But in terms of gameplay and "things to do", it falls flat for me.

Originally posted by Conley

Let me tell you a secret though, healing in general is nerfed (mana regen is nerfed, no downranking, potions nerfed). So while the DPS is ignoring their ability to CC, the healer is blowing all his cooldowns to keep the tank up, and you'll find such groups whipe very often because of it. While you can certainly ignore CC on many trash, a group that does take advantage of their CC, will put a lot less stress on their healer and as a result have a much bigger chance to finish the dungeon without a whipe.

As a healer, I haven't noticed this so-called nerf.  I've been playing a priest since day one and have never had to downrank spells.  I didn't even realize that downranking spells saved mana, until the so-called nerf.  I have always topped healing done, had lowest over heals, and never have a mana problem.  I rarely used potions, so 1 potion a fight limit isn't really a limit to me either.

It's all in how you play the game I guess, in my personal opinion the uprank spells have always served me better.

Originally posted by Overpower

 Critics ratings of Lich King pwns WoW haters.

Some day, you will learn that a Critic's review doesn't always hold true for a person's personal opinion.

Every critic on the planet could get down on their knees in front of Blizzard for this expansion, and I would still not be able to stomach this game.

Originally posted by Sanguinia

Most people [WoW numbers] just play to relax. Sure, some socialize and blah blah blah, but that's not for me. Ever try to hold a conversation with people in an mmo?

I play to have fun more than anything else, and if there's anything I learned about WoW from almost day 1, is that I probably wasn't going to have fun in the long run because I just couldn't get into the game, and part of that is that most people give themselves rediculous names and talk about the stupidest things in chat. And this holds true for RP servers as well.

This wasn't a problem for me when I played SWG. Probably because SWG was a much harder game and kept the kids away. I actually DID hold good conversations in SWG, sometimes with people who just killed me on the opposing faction to discuss their tactics, weapons, armor, etc. That's certainly not something you could ever do on WoW. Most likely the person who killed you will type in some stupid laughing macro, accompanied by some weird posturing.

Video games are not a place for me to relax. If I want to relax, I will get a snack and watch television. When I play a video game, I want to be actively thinking and engaged, not mindlessly hitting a button over and over again.

I quit WoW recently. The expansion made an easy game even easier.

Take a look at wowjutsu ratings and you'll see guilds that couldnt complete Kara having cleared all raid content for WOLK.

My guild had completed all 25 man and 10 man raids within 4 weeks from launch. And because Bosses drop 3-4 epics each, everyone in our guild is fully epic equipped.

For Molten Core and other classic raids it took us 6-12 months to finish gearing a tier set. Many of us completed our tier 7.5 sets in 3 weeks.

Blizz even made pvp easier. If you suck at pvp just do 25 man raids and then spend those badges buying epic pvp gear set pieces.

Heck you dont even have to raid to get tier armor. You can now buy tier 7 gloves and chest piece with heroic 5 man badges.

Personally Ive already managed to get the best possible fist main hand, best possible fist offhand, all 5 pieces of t7.5 armor, 3/5 offset t 7.5 armor, 3/5 pvp armor (without ever having to do any pvp outside of wintergrasp). I have all the cooking recipes possible (all daily cooking done). I finished the rep grind for exalted with sons of hodir, the fishing epic item, head enchant, and more.

There is absolutely nothing left for me to do in this game. Im not going to pay Blizz $15 a month to sit around and pat themselves on the back.

I sure do miss Star Wars Galaxies. That was a rare MMO experience where the game had no ending. I miss my houses. The player cities. The deals with crafters to hunt resources for them. The complexity. A true Steak amongst MMO's. WoW is just hamburger

First of all the community is not the website and forums, is how people act in game and generally how the average wow player acts. But I guess since that is just a big black hole of misery I guess you happened to fail to mention that.

As for PvP it is impossible to have good pvp in a game where there are no risk or consequences for pvping. It will always no matter what they do feel dull and pointless, because it is.
Having said that I did reach Warlord on my hunter pre bc and I also were among the first to down Nefarion before new content was released so I already felt at that point like I had finished the game, and so BC while a good xpac really just served me the same potato mash colored red and it didn't keep my interest for long. Now with Wotlk I know blue potato mash when I see it.

I have to agree with the last part of the review about the queues.  I know that on the Icecrown server the queues have been really bad the last couple of weeks...of course it was the holiday break for most so there would naturally be an influx of players to the game.

But even before the holiday break there has been queue times that have been upto 2 hours for some.  I know that Blizzard is doing what they can to fix this issue but...I know that is starting to turn off some of the fan base from playing the game or even coming back to the game from an extended break.

WotLK is a good expansion for the series but I was disappointed that there was no real new content for the the folks that want to start new character up.  I know that the Death Knight is the new class but you start out at level 55 with that new character. 

That brings me to my next point. 

With the new Death Knights running around the low level areas they have to start their profession skills from zero and work their way up.  This I think is great, but on the PVP and PVE servers it is disruptive for those that are playing their low level characters to having to fight off a level 55 for a herb or mining node so that they can level up their professions as well.

I found the new content refreshing but put me back into the same old grind.  Grind the character up to level 80.  I also was looking at the instances that are in the Northrend area and they are well designed.  Just would have like to see more of them.  There is a lot of things to do for soloing and there are a few group quests out there but I was hoping for more group quests to run on the progession to level 80.  I think that is where the biggest downfall of the game is at and when you finally hit level 80 then you have to start working as a group again to get through the new raiding content.  I think that Blizzard should have worked this angle more and made it more challenging to get to level 80 by working in groups as you level up.

Mostly, WotLK is a good expansion, but there is room for growth.

Cerabellem - Icecrown Server US

Wrath is a mixed bag.  It doesn't ruin WoW but doesn't really improve it either.  If you love playing WoW, then Wrath will keep you happy.  If you hated WoW, then Wrath does not offer you anything new.

Not sure about Alliance side, but on Horde the Taunka and Hand rep are meaningless.   They serve no purpose.  As of right now, there is no quartermaster for either so what's the point of having them a seperate rep?   Why not just make Hand be normal Undercity rep?

This is purely cosmetic, but I find it unacceptable there are so few armor models.  I mean virtually every blue plate helm looks exactly like every other blue plate helm.  Sometimes I can see a slight change in tinting, but that's about it.  I don't want my character to be in xmas colors like in BC, but I look exactly like everyone else.  Heck when my DK changes from his dps to tanking gear there is no visual change except for his weapon.

First of all, its a cool review, and for me its %90 true. TBC was a little failed. And when i saw Outland first time I wasn't surprised at all, only place I liked was Nagrand. It was kinda boring for an expansion back, I didnt get what I wanted, there was only less action on more lore.  Even Illidan became a farm boss. But now WotLK seems like more developed unlike TBC. I think the game itself is always enjoyable, but the rate changes by showing something new to players, and WotLK was a whole new experience and its the point where I could really see lore and game merged.

Well, about customer support, I didnt have any problem, in fact that depends on ppl. I believe Blizz is making the best to help to customers.

thank you all. since i am a fresh player of WOW. your reviews help me a lot concerning the game

This review is bias from the start. First off the guy from the start says that the xpac is $&#&ing awesome. The majority of WoW players would dissagree and call that bias. WoW has now started to crack. This is the easy meter of World Of Warcraft:

WoW Original:

PVE: Pretty hard first time around with no mods, Some what of a grind.

PVP: Twinks R Us should say it. Crappy gear sends you to the grave yard.

Dungeons: This ties in with pve sort of. The dungeons are clean and exciting.

Open world PVP: This ties in with PVP. The PVP is very very poor to the noobs but fun to the higher levels. I know we can all say that we have been pwned once or twice neer the end of a hard quest.

Battle Ground PVP: Meh, Capture the flag, and get resorces is quite fun for a while till u have to grind it.

End game: Alot of hard core raids makes this one stand out.

Over all, WoW Original was the hardest out of the series. It was fresh, new, and fun which made the hard core peeps happy and the kids cry.

WoW BC:

PVE: Outland... hmmm, pretty nice area.... I see some new but most old. Thats how I would say it. I liked it, but Blizz could have added a litttle more features.

Dungeons: See how I put this in the right spot? The dungeons in BC arnt that great, there very repetitive and Blizz makes you want to grind dungeons to level fast with buddys since the exp boost on dungeons was patched up to be alot more than questing. Also Blizz put Heroic dungeons which require keys and reputation to enter. Heroics have enhanced loot and mobs which makes the average joe not so average after all.

PVP: Overall theres nothing new.

Open World PVP: New areas, not new style.

Battle Ground PVP: Same thing. Resorces and Capture the flag.

Endgame: Added Karazan and ZA. Not that original but it kept me happy for a month.

Over all, big dissapoint ment for people that waited till midnight. It was a quick peice of $&#% that lasted a week.

WoW WoTLK:

PVE: Same as BC, added more quest, new cap, more rep to grind, and thats about it.

Dungeons: Wee bit harder Heroices, especially Uldars side dungeons on heroic. Makes the average group fail at the end.

Raids (Endgame): Remakes, thats all I have to say. You payed money to Blizz for $&$&ing remakes of raids? HAH!

PVP: One word, WINTERGRASP BITCH! This is what made me like this xpac. Good solid PVP.

Other thoughts, umm WoTLK should have been 15$ imo. Nothing new but wintergrasp. The raids are the same for gods sakes and the only decent thing added was achievements. Big dissapointment.

Ratings:

WoW Original: 5/5 Nothin gets better than this.

WoW BC: 3.5/5 Could have lived with out it.

WoW WoTLK: 4/5 A big dissapointment but wintergrasp was epic.

WoW is aimed at the casual gamer now. Hard Core raiders will get bored really fast. Over all though I don't see how you can give an Expansion a 9.2 rating when most of the content is modeled after Lord of the Rings Online.

9.2?..........I think not.

WoW raiding  .........people didn't stand in fire = win

WoW raiding  ..........people DID   stand in fire= loss

either way......people yell in vent =p

If WoW is so easy, by all means, anyone here, go ahead and link me your #1 arena team in your battlegroup, or show my your armory to your character having killed the LK on heroic.

Exactly.  This game has challenges.  This game can be hard.  You choose to ignore that and twist the game to fit how you want it to be.

It is made to be easy to get into, and for the most part, easy to play because that's what opened the game up to 11 million more people.  Instead of a game with 500,000 hardcore EQ people who loved camping a spawn for 72 hours, you have people facebooking WoW and such.

9.2 IS pretty high, but meh, I don't think their is any game close.

Originally posted by Swanea

If WoW is so easy, by all means, anyone here, go ahead and link me your #1 arena team in your battlegroup, or show my your armory to your character having killed the LK on heroic.

 

Exactly.  This game has challenges.  This game can be hard.  You choose to ignore that and twist the game to fit how you want it to be.

 

It is made to be easy to get into, and for the most part, easy to play because that's what opened the game up to 11 million more people.  Instead of a game with 500,000 hardcore EQ people who loved camping a spawn for 72 hours, you have people facebooking WoW and such.

9.2 IS pretty high, but meh, I don't think their is any game close.

You're doing the same. It's what everybody does. You see the features or aspects that appeal to you and express why you think it's good or bad.

In wow anyone can reach level cap.  You might ask how is that a bad thing?  The first Naxx had less than 1% of WoWs population raid in there.  All those people sololing to level cap means they don't know how to function in 5 man instances ....not to mention raids. EQ might not have near the population of wow but a random level cap player in EQ is far more likely to be a skilled player who knows his or her class well than the random level cap wow player.

I'll put it this way..........If you really like raiding then the only achieve that will matter and your biggest challenge will be finding 30-40 people who don't absolutely suck that have similar play times. Then pray that random drama doesn't destroy your guild.

The 9.2 review is on par with the other professional reviews found on the internet.

http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/942519-world-of-warcraft-wrath-of-the-lich-king/index.html

There it hits 92.46% from a whopping 35 different reviews.

If all video games were as polished and lasting as WOW was, Blizzard would not make so much money.

I am frankly dissapointed in the state of current video games these days.

Not only MMO's.

MMORPG is taking a turn here concerning WOW and it was not a minute too late.

Meh.

I played WoW WotLK at a friend's house, and really, I've played better.

First of all, this game is not cheap. It's about $50 just for the game, plus a subscription fee of about $15. Most people just don't have that kind of money.

Another thing is the lack of drive. Why are we killing these little animals? I can understand with things like a dragon who is terrorizing a village, but in the lower levels of the game you're just killing little animals.

The range of choice when creating your charecter is probably the worst I've seen in ant MMO. There are only 4 classes, though I admit the shapeshifting druids were pretty cool. You can't choose any kind of clothes, just your skin color and hairstyle. Now, I know you can gett better gear and clothes as you go along in the game, but It's just not enough.

So, I just wasn't all that impressed. I don't know why this is the #1 game in the world. I like DDO much better for a fantasy game, and It fits really well because I actually play D&D offline on the game board.

So as I said before:

Meh.