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Sony Online Entertainment | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Beta Testing  (est.rel 2014)  | Pub:Sony Online Entertainment
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Landmark Forum » General Discussion » We have launched....Right?

20 posts found
  User Deleted
 
OP  4/11/14 10:51:28 AM#1

I was looking  at the Landmark section and perusing the forum posts and noticed that any reviews posted were pretty quickly flamed as the game is not officially released yet.  And indeed the status of Landmark on this site says 'Development'  On seeing that i felt a bit of a twing.  It's just not being quite honest is it?  In all fairness i really think MMORPG should update this to released and change the pay model to box purchase with a cash shop.

The only difference between this game other other 'launched' games that i can see is that this game is promising faster than normal game expansion and patches.  And of course I bought it knowing that they would have an endless 'beta' excuse for not having a decent UI, tutorials, chat abilities, grouping etc.  Very minimal accountability, its a buyer beware kind of thing as it stands.

I'm not complaining about the game, i actually really like it, for what it is, but I do feel that Sony is being very shady in their marketing strategy. Very shady.  This game is pretty expensive really and the open cash shop is pretty grabby in my opinion and its only very early days.

So someone put my mind at ease and explain how this purchasing experience has been different that buying say...Guild Wars 2?  Can anyone explain to me how this game has NOT launched at this point?  And how this open ended 'beta' status is not simply beta testing our wallets?

Let me state again.  I like the game.  I would buy it again without question.  That said,  I feel a bit ...dirty?  Not sure how to put it but i do know that if Sony would step up to the proverbial plate and come clean on its status I would feel much better about the company.  Why not simply say its a limited pass game and make it seem exclusive?  Assuming that they are not willing to open the doors to millions of people at this point.

But back to MMORPG.   The general response is that you can’t critique Landmark because it not 'released'.  If people are paying $99.99 to play it is really DOES need to be reviewed, and very thoroughly indeed.  For the buyers sake and Sony reputations sake.  So many people love it that i really think being more open to reviews would be a good thing all round.

And also, can anyone explane how this game is still listed as "development"?  With a straight face.

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 936

4/11/14 11:08:45 AM#2

You actually bring up one of the biggest problems in the industry right now. That is, simply, misinformation about what a "beta" really is. There are a couple reasons for this. First of all, many Korean games actually get government grants while they're in Beta, so they'll actually remain in beta perpetually, or at least for really long times. This isn't something that's only found in games (I remember gmail was in beta for ever!), but it certainly has become popular, especially where grants are given to companies with unreleased products. 

 

Landmark isn't even in this type of public or "Open" beta state. Sure, if you spend some money, they'll let you play around, but they're still doing a lot of work in the background. It's definitely a new age marketing tactic in order to get people to buy-in early. Early adopters pay, gain early access, and maybe some exclusive or attractive in-game items to start with. It's a great way to monetize a free game. That said, it's not the lone means of monetizing it and they will try to get their game out as quickly as possible so they can capitalize on the larger market exposure. 

 

So even though it seems release-ready, it's not. Either that or it is and they are simply waiting on some additional orders before they launch it. Whatever the reason, you won't see any reviews until they've officially released.

Crazkanuk

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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2640

4/11/14 11:33:55 AM#3

I am not buying what you are selling.  You keep saying you like it, play it, but you don't seem to know a lot of what you should.  You can pay $19.99 for unlimited closed beta access, and the $100 package basically gives you 5 all access closed beta accounts (1 with better stuff).  I fail to see how $19.99 is very steep for unlimited early access....If it is for someone, then wait till it is $0.  GW2 cost $60ish at launch, Landmark will cost $0, both have a cash shop, even if you somehow want to apply closed beta to launch $20<$60. 

 

Cash shop, I see nothing I need or want, right now.  I need raw materials, I will go mine/harvest them. Just as with any f2p game, or really the way the market has gone, any mmo almost, you can buy short cuts.  I prefer p2p myself, with no cash shop, but not a lot of options for that. 

 

SoE has been honest, from what I have seen, when dealing with Landmark, they stated Closed beta would actually be a closed beta, and last a good deal longer than alpha, and that the game would not be nearly 'ready', until they hit open beta, as they consider open beta to be a soft launch, not closed.  If you want to apply your own standards and thinking to what they have, and not actually listen to what they say, then whos fault is that?  SoE has pissed me off before, as a EQ/VG/SWG player, but with Landmark, they are so far being open and honest, would it be nice if it was going faster?  Sure...  I am more excited about Next myself, but I realized that Landmark may end up being their biggest game in the end.

 

As for reviews, and needing to be reviewed because it is $100, well we already talked about that, it is $20 to get in, and their is no NDA.  You can watch 1000 videos of what is and isn't in the game at the moment.  They have a roadmap/blueprint for where they are going that is not in some secret pay web page, hidden from view.  Want to review Landmark, go for it, but when the land is going to totally change, and have tiers/levels, combat and monsters aren't in yet, crafting gear to deal with those aspects are not in, pvp aspects not in yet, tools not finished....You get the idea, go ahead and preview it, as it would end up being meaningless, and almost  a waste of time to read, unless it was going to be something ongoing.

 

I could end up not liking Landmark in the end, it all depends on the final tools for crafting, pve, pvp, content creation etc...  Seeing some of the stuff people have built, does give me hope though, that it may be pulled off on all sides in the end.  Still more excited for Next though, as it is more developer/professional, and 100% fantasy, where Landmark is not tied to being only fantasy.

 

Sorry, if you were actually being 100% honest, but you did seem a little ignorant of a lot of what is happening and going to happen in Landmark, for someone playing it.

 

Edit:  No we haven't launched, if TL;DR, they consider Open Beta (not closed, and stated closed would last much longer than Alpha) as the announcement saying, "We are almost ready to launch, and things are about completely done."

  bentrim

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 83

4/11/14 11:40:34 AM#4
That's why I have not, and WILL NOT buy this game. They are strangling money out of the customers for something that they WILL HAVE ......down the road. Talk about pre-selling "air"  WOW good job SOE, you've sunk to new lows.
  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1683

4/11/14 11:49:10 AM#5

I haven't been following EQNL, but I would draw the line at "will there be a full wipe prior to launch?"

a) If there is no wipe, then the game has launched and progression is permanent.

b) If there is a wipe, then you are currently in beta.

c) If there is a wipe and the game has been formally launched by the developer, then you are currently playing a very bad game and should run away.

 

At least those are what I would use to determine what state a game is in.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2640

4/11/14 11:54:57 AM#6
Originally posted by bentrim
That's why I have not, and WILL NOT buy this game. They are strangling money out of the customers for something that they WILL HAVE ......down the road. Talk about pre-selling "air"  WOW good job SOE, you've sunk to new lows.

 Good thing for you, save your $20, as it will be free, and nothing in the cash shop that you 'need' to buy so far, which is good.  Hopefully the cosmetic/created stuff sells good enough to keep it that way.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2640

4/11/14 12:02:09 PM#7
Originally posted by Rusque

I haven't been following EQNL, but I would draw the line at "will there be a full wipe prior to launch?"

a) If there is no wipe, then the game has launched and progression is permanent.

b) If there is a wipe, then you are currently in beta.

c) If there is a wipe and the game has been formally launched by the developer, then you are currently playing a very bad game and should run away.

 

At least those are what I would use to determine what state a game is in.

 Their will be wipes during closed beta, to the extent they will not 100% commit.  They would like to let people keep tools/resources, but they have reserved the right to do a wipe on them.  If people buy anything in the shop, they will keep it, so as you cannot spend money on something and lose it.  Claims are a 100% known wipe, and will probably happen a few times, as land is changed to provide tiers, connected, etc..   No claim will make it out of closed beta, but they do template you claim, and you can template designs and other things you use to build, so you can rebuild quickly/quicker later.

I am fine with whatever way they do the wipes, I have legendary tools and such, but I can make them again, and I imagine resources will be a little harder to come by, when monsters, combat and tiered land comes into play, so it probably would be wise to just wipe it all on SoE's part, not just claims and such.

  azarhal

Elite Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 576

4/11/14 12:10:02 PM#8
Originally posted by Rusque

I haven't been following EQNL, but I would draw the line at "will there be a full wipe prior to launch?"

a) If there is no wipe, then the game has launched and progression is permanent.

b) If there is a wipe, then you are currently in beta.

c) If there is a wipe and the game has been formally launched by the developer, then you are currently playing a very bad game and should run away.

 

At least those are what I would use to determine what state a game is in.

There is going to be a claim wipe (at the least) when they change the land generation to have water and the underground caves in a few weeks.

There is also going to be a claim wipe when the game move to open beta (but none after that).

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2724

There... are... four... lights!

4/11/14 1:18:42 PM#9

During how many years did Minecraft sell an alpha and then beta game before they released 1.0?

Nuff said.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 874

4/11/14 1:29:54 PM#10

Sorry OP, I disagree. Landmark is very much still in development and they are still rolling out features. Though it is in closed beta now, we have seen more feature rollouts than bug fixes so far and I expect that to continue for a while.


Quite a few companies are now selling alpha/beta access these days as a way to not only monetize the game but acquire testers and feedback. It doesn't matter if I like it or not - it's the way things are. But that doesn't mean the game has launched.


Maybe "launch" needs to be redefined.

  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 874

4/11/14 1:32:02 PM#11


Originally posted by bentrim
That's why I have not, and WILL NOT buy this game. They are strangling money out of the customers for something that they WILL HAVE ......down the road. Talk about pre-selling "air"  WOW good job SOE, you've sunk to new lows.

I have a couple friends who are playing Landmark exclusively now, so it's not "air". Did they buy in? Yep. Is it playable? Yep. Are they getting what they feel is their money's worth? Oh hell yeah. They love it.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4649

4/11/14 1:46:19 PM#12
Who's going to give better feed back during a beta. someone that pays to be there or random people treating it like a free trial who spend more time bitching about how greedy a company is on a site like this than actually testing/talking with ( not to ) the developers.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  ABRaquel

Tipster

Joined: 1/19/04
Posts: 541

The air feels damp and oppressive, like a wet nun.

4/11/14 2:05:16 PM#13
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

During how many years did Minecraft sell an alpha and then beta game before they released 1.0?

Nuff said.

+1, so true.

I'm not partial to EQL but to be honest I don't think they're being dishonest or trying to rip people off.

  Raelln

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/11/14
Posts: 53

4/11/14 2:25:56 PM#14

I love Landmark.  They convinced me to buy the game with their 7 day closed beta access.

 

That said, the game is for all intents and purposes, released. Oh sure, they are trying to do the popular "call it alpha/beta/pre-release/early access" like Minecraft and a whole host of Steam games are doing these days but the game is most certainly released.

Historically speaking, Alpha tests were only extended to a very select group of testers that may or may not include friends and family of developers. 

Historically speaking, Closed Beta were invitation only - usually dependent on certain specifications (IE: player demographic, CPU specs, alleged playing history) or limited by specific number of invites.

Historically speaking, Open Betas are usually fairly easy to get into as a large number of testers are desired for stress testing and what not.

 

This new rage of buying "early access" to the game is really just releasing a new game in an unfinished state so they can monetize development and create a psychological tool to defend against potential bugs or lack of content in the game.

Minecraft released the moment they allowed the general public to buy the game. They might have called it "alpha" or "beta" for the next 2 years - but it released back when they accepted the first payment for a game license from a customer. Landmark is the same. The moment someone paid something for permanent early access was the moment the game is actually "released", regardless of whatever label the marketing department chooses to put on it.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11423

4/21/14 2:56:17 PM#15
Originally posted by azarhal
Originally posted by Rusque

I haven't been following EQNL, but I would draw the line at "will there be a full wipe prior to launch?"

a) If there is no wipe, then the game has launched and progression is permanent.

b) If there is a wipe, then you are currently in beta.

c) If there is a wipe and the game has been formally launched by the developer, then you are currently playing a very bad game and should run away.

At least those are what I would use to determine what state a game is in.

There is going to be a claim wipe (at the least) when they change the land generation to have water and the underground caves in a few weeks.

There is also going to be a claim wipe when the game move to open beta (but none after that).

regarding wipes,

this was announced in the FAQ last year, before the Alpha started

https://www.everquestnext.com/landmark-faq

End of Closed Beta Wipe

Timing: Occurs at the end of Closed Beta testing

Character: Your character and all progression will be retained.

Claims: Your claim(s) will be wiped. All claims will be templated so that you have blueprints of what you built.

Resources and Collected Objects: All resources and collected objects will be retained.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1457

4/24/14 12:44:46 PM#16
Originally posted by Deleted User

So someone put my mind at ease and explain how this purchasing experience has been different that buying say...Guild Wars 2?  Can anyone explain to me how this game has NOT launched at this point?  And how this open ended 'beta' status is not simply beta testing our wallets?

Rather simple. Because they said, it is Beta now(so expect that it is actually a beta) and that you can play it for free(0.00$) a few month later, when it is finally released.

You don't want buggy betas? Don't play betas.

You don't want to invest money? Don't invest money.

It is really that simple. And they said it all upfront.

So either you were to lazy to read, and even then.. as much as i know they offer you a complete refund. Or you are trolling.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1227

4/26/14 4:17:47 PM#17
Originally posted by Rusque

I haven't been following EQNL, but I would draw the line at "will there be a full wipe prior to launch?"

a) If there is no wipe, then the game has launched and progression is permanent.

b) If there is a wipe, then you are currently in beta.

c) If there is a wipe and the game has been formally launched by the developer, then you are currently playing a very bad game and should run away.

 

At least those are what I would use to determine what state a game is in.

Others have posted that there may - or may not - be a full wipe.

However you mentioned "character progression" which makes me wonder whether you are up to speed with what exactly EQN:L is. What "pre-purchasers" will get to keep - if anything and probably and subject to change! - are templates for building stuff. Building stuff - not progression - is the crux of what EQN:L is / is going to be.

(There is "progression" but its not really what EQN:L is about.)

  Rattenmann

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 326

4/26/14 4:25:50 PM#18

Wait, we are rambling about a closed beta here?

I am all for flaming games that stay in beta longer then they should, but Landmark JUST got into beta and has been in Alpha less then two months. This team is pushing updates weekly and communicating with the player base every single day.

 

While i agree that taking money for a beta is bad, SOE is far FAR FAR away from the worst we have right now. Nothing in the store is actually of any use ingame. You don't need to buy anything at all. You can craft everything that is in the store, save for some outfits (with no stats!) i think.

MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2724

There... are... four... lights!

4/27/14 6:26:42 AM#19
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by Deleted User

So someone put my mind at ease and explain how this purchasing experience has been different that buying say...Guild Wars 2?  Can anyone explain to me how this game has NOT launched at this point?  And how this open ended 'beta' status is not simply beta testing our wallets?

Rather simple. Because they said, it is Beta now(so expect that it is actually a beta) and that you can play it for free(0.00$) a few month later, when it is finally released.

You don't want buggy betas? Don't play betas.

You don't want to invest money? Don't invest money.

It is really that simple. And they said it all upfront.

So either you were to lazy to read, and even then.. as much as i know they offer you a complete refund. Or you are trolling.

Considering how he deleted his account in addition to this thread... what I have highlighted is the most likely version of the truth ;)

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  iller

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/18/04
Posts: 515

4/28/14 6:13:49 PM#20
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

During how many years did Minecraft sell an alpha and then beta game before they released 1.0?

Nuff said.

...and got progressively more expensive to BUY for everyone else who wasn't an early adopter.

 

Meanwhile, I can't go ANYWHERE on youtube without still being bombarded by 20 ****ing Minecraft letsplays every single day.  I never clicked on that crap!  It's like MyLittlePony videos, they just SHOW UP in your goddamned sidebar nonstop b/c like 75% of gamers out there seem to keep watching that trash.  EQN will probably be in the same boat once it gets rolling too.  Infact it's even more likely to b/c it's F2P like TF2 and LOL are D: