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Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Forum » General Discussion » 3rd person perspective a mistake?

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47 posts found
  SST_2_0

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/14
Posts: 14

2/05/14 12:30:28 AM#21
Originally posted by grigdusher
because melee combat.

You know what was actually really good was Unreal Tournament: Liandri Conflict.  Because it blended 3rd person melee and first person shooting so well.  

 

Really, the biggest problem with first person is the game seems to be based around some cover mechanics and so  you would have to be ready to go in and out of first person into third and vice versa.  I'd have to actually try it before I approved but, Battlefront 2 is another game that did 3rd and 1st well.  I always did 3rd cause that was standard on BF2 on Xbox, how ever on Liandri, the same system, going between them felt really fluid and nice.  I cannot p i m p Liandri enough for how well that was done and how relevant it is to this topic.

 

  atuerstar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 240

2/05/14 12:52:15 AM#22

WHY NOT BOTH?

 

I dont even see why the argument has to revolved around one or the other. Support both playstyles - and support VR while youre at it.

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

3/12/14 8:14:45 PM#23

Personally I always find the wide FOV 1st person perspective the most immersive, by a wide margin. 3d person always makes me feel outside of my character, like i'm playing someone who is moving a toy around. In 1st person it's ME who is moving rather than me moving a figurine. And besides, I can stand only so much of looking at the butt of my space marine rhytmically swinging, and swinging and swinging.... No matter how good my character looks at one point I get sick to the death of staring at his back for hours on end.

Adittionally, I could never get the hang of shooter games, those requiring actual aiming, in 3rd person. I find everything completely off. 3rd person is ok with targetting or close combat where you basically just flail around in the general direction of the enemies, but aiming... no, just no. I tried out this scheme in Firefall and.. it simply didn't feel right for me. This might pass for consoles with their atrocious aiming controls, but mouse and keyboard.. no. Imo they'll have to implement some kind of soft-aiming to compensate and it's just going to hurt the game's appeal with all the cries of dumbing-down etc etc.

It really all depends on the combat system. If it's more aiming FPS-like then 1st person is the only way to go. If it's going to be more targetting, skills affair then I guess 3rd person is better. I'd prefer a more visceral, fps-like experience tbh but then again WH are basically miniatures games so it's a question wether you want to present a computer version of a WH GAME or WH WORLD?

The game looks really interesting though and I used to be a huge fan of WH universe. This might be just a gripe of mine but I would prefer 1st person with option to zoom out when need arises.

  ThrakasVM

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/14
Posts: 3

4/03/14 8:18:13 PM#24
It's spiritual predecessors were [to be] third person shooters, stillborn or otherwise. Half of 40k is seeing cool figures., so not being able to see your own "Mini' would be a huge bummer. I do agree that there should be an option to play in first-person for those who want it, but it should be just as playable as third-person and not an afterthought feature. 
  Mishozor

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/14
Posts: 3

4/03/14 8:47:26 PM#25
Personally,I can't imagine first perspective as assault/raptor.To be simply efficient,at least those classes must be tps.
  Mors.Magne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1432

6/09/14 7:37:43 AM#26

I think 3rd person is a mistake.

 

Oculus Rift will be introduced towards the end of this year, it's 100% certain to be a sell-out. Suddenly, 1st person games will be all the rage and nobody will bother with 3rd person any more (unless it's a strategy game).

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1945

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

6/09/14 7:47:08 AM#27
Originally posted by Adders

I think Eternal Crusade has lots of potential to be a great game, but why 3rd person??

First person gives much better immersion... but also, if it's in 3rd person then using the Rift and Omni combo will suck - why bother?

If people have the coming VR setup, they will want to play 1st person games and Behaviour Interactive may be shooting themselves in their big orky feet.

There are few advantages to 3rd person views, I guess with the WH40K IP it's about seeing your character from the outside, seeing kill moves etc, but it will be condemned to the mouse and keyboard.

I love the IP, but when my Omni and Rift arrive, why bother wasting time with 3rd person games?

yea, because using VR sets totaly doesnt work on 3rd person....

uh wait, it does ^^ you just have your char in mid of the screen.

 

 

 

and for the record, the VR idea came up in the late 1980s. it's nothing groundbreaking new or anything, but gz on finding it.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1853

6/09/14 7:50:25 AM#28
Bleh if it was FPS I wouldn't touch it. One very important aspect of Warhammer is being able to see your manz. From what I've heard (and continue to hope they keep down this path) is that customization of your character will be a major feature - as it should be for a warhammer game.
  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1899

6/10/14 7:52:20 PM#29
This actually made me realise a thing:

How in the name of Marka are we supposed to play Rangers...oh right! I get it! No Rangers. Meh ffs.

Right?
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15844

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/10/14 7:56:27 PM#30
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I think 3rd person is a mistake.

 

Oculus Rift will be introduced towards the end of this year, it's 100% certain to be a sell-out. Suddenly, 1st person games will be all the rage and nobody will bother with 3rd person any more (unless it's a strategy game).

What?!?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  grigdusher

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/08
Posts: 133

6/11/14 8:51:59 AM#31
Originally posted by Gorwe
This actually made me realise a thing:

How in the name of Marka are we supposed to play Rangers...oh right! I get it! No Rangers. Meh ffs.

Right?

some weapon (like sniper rifle and similar) will have a first person aim mode.

war 40K Eternal Crusade: refferal 4$ bonus: EC-9Y7IAZJ8UZN6I http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-9Y7IAZJ8UZN6I

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

6/11/14 8:57:13 AM#32

I like to see my character and the gear i am wearing. That is what MMORPG is all about for me.

I stayed away from Planet Side 2 for same reason as well as Mortal Online.

I am glad they went with 3rd person perspective or i would have avoided this one too.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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  grigdusher

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/08
Posts: 133

6/12/14 3:04:37 PM#33
Originally posted by Gorwe
This actually made me realise a thing:

How in the name of Marka are we supposed to play Rangers...oh right! I get it! No Rangers. Meh ffs.

Right?

http://legacy.eternalcrusade.com/Content/html/newsletter_katie_heroes.html

here the ranger

 

war 40K Eternal Crusade: refferal 4$ bonus: EC-9Y7IAZJ8UZN6I http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-9Y7IAZJ8UZN6I

  OrkGrimskull

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/14
Posts: 3

6/15/14 2:50:43 PM#34

To be honest, I myself along with a lot of other people waiting for this game don't seem to have put much thought or criticism into the 3rd person aspect of the game. I guess we just assumed that's how it would be all along. I think with the large open world aspect, perhaps 3rd person was always the way to go. I saw alpha footage of EC in action, it makes sense based on the way they are developing the game to have it be 3rd person. Of course, you can still rotate the camera to a large degree, and you can go into "first person" mode when you scope your rifles and such. 

There is an FPS multiplayer Warhammer 40,000 game slated to come out next year, but it's in a different arena than EC. 

  binkus

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/07
Posts: 57

7/29/14 6:15:56 AM#35

TY OP for posting this i came here to say the same thing

 

without even the option to switch 3rd to 1st person this game is missing a huge target audience

 

i would play this in 1st person but 3rd nope, non playoh, not for me

 

and as for VR headsets they are going to take the gaming market by storm in a short period of time, i played with the dev kit oculus rift and with graphics updates and tweaks they will be amazing to play on

 

again they release the idea of a 40k game without really thinking of who or why people will really be playing this apart from the fanboys they are constantly shooting their bolters off the mark when it comes to games like this

 

 

nerf scissors! rock is fine...
yours paper

  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 955

7/30/14 9:59:43 AM#36
I can't imagine warhammer 40k game in first person perspective , but why not both options for play how someone like

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Aeander

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 371

7/31/14 7:24:07 PM#37
Originally posted by Adders

I think Eternal Crusade has lots of potential to be a great game, but why 3rd person??

First person gives much better immersion... but also, if it's in 3rd person then using the Rift and Omni combo will suck - why bother?

If people have the coming VR setup, they will want to play 1st person games and Behaviour Interactive may be shooting themselves in their big orky feet.

There are few advantages to 3rd person views, I guess with the WH40K IP it's about seeing your character from the outside, seeing kill moves etc, but it will be condemned to the mouse and keyboard.

I love the IP, but when my Omni and Rift arrive, why bother wasting time with 3rd person games?

 

First person does not give better immersion. It actually detaches you from your character by removing them from your sight. It is hard to empathize with a character you cannot see and can rarely hear.

 

Third person allows for better control of your mobility and better awareness of the stage. It also allows for much better melee combat systems - part of the game's advertised combat.

Third person, when done well is, for all intents and purposes, superior to first person. 

 

And "condemned" to mouse and keyboard? Mouse and keyboard is highly versatile and is often touted as more accurate for shooting games than a controller.

  goboygo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 434

7/31/14 8:05:26 PM#38
Originally posted by Aeander
Originally posted by Adders

I think Eternal Crusade has lots of potential to be a great game, but why 3rd person??

First person gives much better immersion... but also, if it's in 3rd person then using the Rift and Omni combo will suck - why bother?

If people have the coming VR setup, they will want to play 1st person games and Behaviour Interactive may be shooting themselves in their big orky feet.

There are few advantages to 3rd person views, I guess with the WH40K IP it's about seeing your character from the outside, seeing kill moves etc, but it will be condemned to the mouse and keyboard.

I love the IP, but when my Omni and Rift arrive, why bother wasting time with 3rd person games?

 

First person does not give better immersion. It actually detaches you from your character by removing them from your sight. It is hard to empathize with a character you cannot see and can rarely hear.

 

Third person allows for better control of your mobility and better awareness of the stage. It also allows for much better melee combat systems - part of the game's advertised combat.

Third person, when done well is, for all intents and purposes, superior to first person. 

 

And "condemned" to mouse and keyboard? Mouse and keyboard is highly versatile and is often touted as more accurate for shooting games than a controller.

That is your personal opinion, I personally feel the exact opposite, constantly seeing a character from behind reminds me of the fact that its not me.  Its like I'm just a puppeteer.   First person perspective games feel FAR more immersive to me.  I also have far better control over my character in First Person over 3rd person.

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2062

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

9/09/14 1:01:59 PM#39

Can see where OP is coming from, especially with VR around the corner and the game a very long way off.

But there are reasons why 3rd person might be best for this:

- VR is best for games where you're in a vehicle or stationary position. You will sometimes be in vehicles in this game, but mostly not.
- Melee combat is difficult to pull off well in 1st person.
- Since it's Warhammer 40k, you probably want to visually see how bad of a dude you really are most of the time.
- Combat seems inspired heavily from Warhammer 40k: Space Marine, which is 3rd person.

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  nennafir

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 245

10/07/14 10:10:59 PM#40
I hate first person.  It feels robotic and empty.  Your "character" is a gun...how exciting...
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