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Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Forum » General Discussion » The "Ask the Devs a question" thread! (Not suggestions)

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490 posts found
  mintyc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/07
Posts: 38

9/09/13 1:38:06 PM#341
Originally posted by Savij
Originally posted by grigdusher
Originally posted by patrickbalthazar
Originally posted by grigdusher

hitbox? headshot?

all the race will have the same hitbox or the body size will be considered?

als headshot: space marine have backpack and shoulder armor that "cover" the head, and have big body but human size head. Orks have "frontal" head,  it's impossibile to make an headshot from the back of an ork, and really hard make an headshot from the back or side of a space marine. Eldar instead wear bigger "conical" helmets and have a full exposed head.

also aiming for the head versus orks it's a better idea, because if you miss the head you hit the body, but if you miss an eldar head you make a "full" miss.

how it will be balanced?

like the rest of the game - we do not balance on a per character base, war is not balanced! But also this is not an ego shooter where only you skill with your mouse/gamepad is important, it will make a difference if you are very bad, but this is also an RPG. Also for now, a headshot is not an insta-kill, it just does more damage, but that part is up to further testing, life expectation etc is not finalized ;)

no ego shooter? so no K/D showed or simiar? it's a nice thing for me but i fear a lot of people will whine for no k/d epenis.

put some socks into your underwear that works too :3

if i remember corectly kharn the betrayer was rewarded with a kill counter. so if they want to go with the lore based rout they could make the kill counter a piece of gear you have to get rather than just a plain hud option ;)

that way those who want it have to work for there ego stroking and those who dont can just laugh as the chat is filled with others complining about the drop rate or the expense...etc

  grigdusher

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/08
Posts: 131

9/09/13 1:53:21 PM#342
Originally posted by mintyc
Originally posted by Savij
Originally posted by grigdusher
Originally posted by patrickbalthazar
Originally posted by grigdusher

hitbox? headshot?

all the race will have the same hitbox or the body size will be considered?

als headshot: space marine have backpack and shoulder armor that "cover" the head, and have big body but human size head. Orks have "frontal" head,  it's impossibile to make an headshot from the back of an ork, and really hard make an headshot from the back or side of a space marine. Eldar instead wear bigger "conical" helmets and have a full exposed head.

also aiming for the head versus orks it's a better idea, because if you miss the head you hit the body, but if you miss an eldar head you make a "full" miss.

how it will be balanced?

like the rest of the game - we do not balance on a per character base, war is not balanced! But also this is not an ego shooter where only you skill with your mouse/gamepad is important, it will make a difference if you are very bad, but this is also an RPG. Also for now, a headshot is not an insta-kill, it just does more damage, but that part is up to further testing, life expectation etc is not finalized ;)

no ego shooter? so no K/D showed or simiar? it's a nice thing for me but i fear a lot of people will whine for no k/d epenis.

put some socks into your underwear that works too :3

if i remember corectly kharn the betrayer was rewarded with a kill counter. so if they want to go with the lore based rout they could make the kill counter a piece of gear you have to get rather than just a plain hud option ;)

that way those who want it have to work for there ego stroking and those who dont can just laugh as the chat is filled with others complining about the drop rate or the expense...etc

war 40K Eternal Crusade: refferal 4$ bonus: EC-9Y7IAZJ8UZN6I http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-9Y7IAZJ8UZN6I

  patrickbalthazar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 133

9/10/13 8:15:33 AM#343
Well I won't say no to a Kill Counter or K/D ratios etc, but showing off id not what this game is about, and from experience showing stuff like this makes people behave very differently in a game...as example, if there would be a K/D stat, then many players watch that stat very often, and try to make sure that they don't die in any engagement, just make sure the stat does not get worse, so their playstyle changes. This is not wh40k - a SM who does not run into battle charging and screaming? I think the problem is pretty clear, where bragging rights and showing off is important in PvP, we also want gameplay to be essentially lore like - for now, lets wait, lets get this tested in alpha and beta and adjust and decide stuff like this then!

Patrick Balthazar
Tech Lead - Behaviour Online
Lead Programmer - Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade
www.EternalCrusade.com - #eternalcrusade - @lordpada

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 340

9/10/13 8:31:43 AM#344
Originally posted by patrickbalthazar
Well I won't say no to a Kill Counter or K/D ratios etc, but showing off id not what this game is about, and from experience showing stuff like this makes people behave very differently in a game...as example, if there would be a K/D stat, then many players watch that stat very often, and try to make sure that they don't die in any engagement, just make sure the stat does not get worse, so their playstyle changes. This is not wh40k - a SM who does not run into battle charging and screaming? I think the problem is pretty clear, where bragging rights and showing off is important in PvP, we also want gameplay to be essentially lore like - for now, lets wait, lets get this tested in alpha and beta and adjust and decide stuff like this then!

hm ya maybe it would change some playstyles

but statistics are always very interesting, maybe make them not visible to others? so noone need to care about their K/D or other stats cause noone else will see them

and for the e-penis lovers we could invent a point system that counts together some stats and equals them into a number that let other people imagine what kind of skill that guy has

 

just some little thoughts :3

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  patrickbalthazar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 133

9/10/13 8:45:46 AM#345
Originally posted by Savij
Originally posted by patrickbalthazar
Well I won't say no to a Kill Counter or K/D ratios etc, but showing off id not what this game is about, and from experience showing stuff like this makes people behave very differently in a game...as example, if there would be a K/D stat, then many players watch that stat very often, and try to make sure that they don't die in any engagement, just make sure the stat does not get worse, so their playstyle changes. This is not wh40k - a SM who does not run into battle charging and screaming? I think the problem is pretty clear, where bragging rights and showing off is important in PvP, we also want gameplay to be essentially lore like - for now, lets wait, lets get this tested in alpha and beta and adjust and decide stuff like this then!

hm ya maybe it would change some playstyles

but statistics are always very interesting, maybe make them not visible to others? so noone need to care about their K/D or other stats cause noone else will see them

and for the e-penis lovers we could invent a point system that counts together some stats and equals them into a number that let other people imagine what kind of skill that guy has

 

just some little thoughts :3

Oh I know what you mean, and i spend quite some time looking into 'rating' systems, developing one for TSW too...in the end it's a very difficult thing. No matter what you do, there will be always people who don't like it. That said, we first need to see what type of game this is - as said, this is not a shooter, so having the stats like in a shooter is maybe not the right way. to mask the stats is also not really a good way, and also, players will always compare each other and try to be better than others, so again - I believe this is something that will need actual players and their feedback while and after playing the game. deciding this now is just not right, because the first priority should be to make a fun game, then we can add chocolate sprinkles on top :)

Patrick Balthazar
Tech Lead - Behaviour Online
Lead Programmer - Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade
www.EternalCrusade.com - #eternalcrusade - @lordpada

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 340

9/10/13 8:58:02 AM#346

sounds alright to me

if you need any help just let us know :)

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  zmalamuth

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/05
Posts: 9

9/10/13 2:32:25 PM#347

If I may drop an Idea?

My guild comes from Warhammer Online, and we were RvR orriented, and there was this nice add-on, that showed K/D ratio but as Zone Kills/Deaths, not as personal kills, and showed ammount of people that were present in that fight.

We found it interesting, since we usualy fought with 3v1 odds and managed to come on top. We did't really care who killed who, but it was good for forum bragging rights to show the other team SS when they would claim we had help or we had 3 Warbands hiden in bush... etc.

So in accordance with 40K lore, this way people could show some epic defences or last stands of one squad vs half a chapter and have a "verrified ingame tool" to prove their claims.

SO this add-on would show only people that would participate in fight, and number of kills.

Might be worth to give it a go?

  Batpimp

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/13
Posts: 26

www.dawnofwar.info

9/10/13 2:59:24 PM#348

Patrick,

 

I agree this is a very difficult idea to implement without changing players way of playing. For example, In the new Planetside 2 we can immediately see what happened. Players went to the biggest baddest battles, not to participate in the objective, but just stack up their K/D ratio. My vote would be to NOT show this. I would MUCH rather see stats showing accomplishments. For example,

How much healing a person did.

How many captures they did on a point of interest

How long they held a point

How many persons they rezzed

How often they followed orders

etc.

 

These would be far more useful to me. I imagine being a single Ork in a mass of Orks. If i see a squad of Orks playing the objective and along with doing smart things like capturing points and rezzing as a team player i am MUCH more inclined to see where they are at and who is leading them to try and join them. This "problem", how i see it anyways,  where you display K/D but show nothing of them completing team work is destructive to the idea that this is a TEAM based strategy minded intended game. After speaking with Miguel at PAX, watching his live panel, I was more excited than ever when he said the armies would be Unequal and Unfair...but equally to all. Strategy would HAVE to be involved to overcome the strengths of the other races. I think we should incentivize teamplay and not promote "Stat padding".

 

On another note I wanted to ask a question. I am not entirely sure it should be directed towards you but perhaps :).I think this game has the capability to change our understanding of immersion in the WH40k universe.

When you guys think and create the orks in your virtual world, what are your ideas on how you plan to animate and integrate the psychic collection of the Orks power? For example, I play a DoW2 (dawn of war 2), a mod to be specific check it out!

dawnofwar.info

In that game you can cast an ability on ork infantry units that creates a buff for surrounding allied orks within a radius. With chivalry as an example, you can press a button on your keyboard to make emotes that other players in that game can hear as a warcry.

Could something like this be implemented? Here is an example,

The immediate problem for orks as you guys mention is trying to get within range of melee to be able to maximize the kill potential of orks. Swarming the enemy while taking losses just on approach is a problem but fluffy for the Orks. Assuming vehicles and stormboyz are not in play, it would be AWESOME to be able to press "Z" on my keyboard,  for example,  create a shout that effects nearby allies and collectively add up our "psychic power" and buff  NEARBY allied orks. I could see something simple like 5% speed increase or 5% incoming ranged dmg reduction. It would create the waagh effect that we would hear orks do AND incentivize the player to be immersed in what a real orkboy would do. Or i can see maybe a player whom is controlling a Warboss give his squad a buff of some kind with his waagh.

 

It would be so awesome to be immersed in that with my earphones on in the dark!!

I wouldn't even care if the Warboss/Nob  player would be in my squad and just stompin making humiez fly around with his hammer as i charged in and died, probably haha , as long he PTFO! Anyhow i got excited about the possibilities but im not sure if in reality we could make it happen. Just an idea.

 

 

 

  Batpimp

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/13
Posts: 26

www.dawnofwar.info

9/10/13 3:01:13 PM#349
Originally posted by zmalamuth

If I may drop an Idea?

My guild comes from Warhammer Online, and we were RvR orriented, and there was this nice add-on, that showed K/D ratio but as Zone Kills/Deaths, not as personal kills, and showed ammount of people that were present in that fight.

We found it interesting, since we usualy fought with 3v1 odds and managed to come on top. We did't really care who killed who, but it was good for forum bragging rights to show the other team SS when they would claim we had help or we had 3 Warbands hiden in bush... etc.

So in accordance with 40K lore, this way people could show some epic defences or last stands of one squad vs half a chapter and have a "verrified ingame tool" to prove their claims.

SO this add-on would show only people that would participate in fight, and number of kills.

Might be worth to give it a go?

I like this idea. reminds me of DAoC.

  quotheraving

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/10
Posts: 278

9/10/13 4:08:46 PM#350
Originally posted by zmalamuth

If I may drop an Idea?

My guild comes from Warhammer Online, and we were RvR orriented, and there was this nice add-on, that showed K/D ratio but as Zone Kills/Deaths, not as personal kills, and showed ammount of people that were present in that fight.

We found it interesting, since we usualy fought with 3v1 odds and managed to come on top. We did't really care who killed who, but it was good for forum bragging rights to show the other team SS when they would claim we had help or we had 3 Warbands hiden in bush... etc.

So in accordance with 40K lore, this way people could show some epic defences or last stands of one squad vs half a chapter and have a "verrified ingame tool" to prove their claims.

SO this add-on would show only people that would participate in fight, and number of kills.

Might be worth to give it a go?

I kinda agree with both sides so far!  Kill counters seem like they could detract from team play and feed a 'me first' mentality, but some kind of bragging rights maybe a good idea and as such a recognised and legitimate ingame mark of this may not be a bad idea.

 

Couldn't acts of heroism like the survival against the odds or 'Hero of the battle at ----' also be represented as visible awards such as visually distinctive weapons with unique names, purity seals, wargear, titles and the like, which that character is given the honor of bearing into battle till the end of the campaign and possibly even linger on afterwards in a trophy case within the player's ship in subsequent campaigns.

Additionally if these awards were gained for outstanding contributions to the battle as well as, or instead of kills scored then e.gotism is given a far more constructive outlet. 

 

That way players both get bragging rights albeit packaged in a lore friendly wrapper, while potentially still encouraging good play habits.

 

 

I guess this is a bit like Batpimp's idea only that it isn't displayed in the form of an 'immersion breaking' league table of numerical scores like some arcade game's leader board, but as an actual in-game element. 

 

More a suggestion than a question, but hey I'll post it there too.

  Nonderyon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/07
Posts: 171

9/10/13 6:40:44 PM#351

I totaly agree, shown k/d ratio just borns elitist.

but some numbers need to be seen, when the first campain is over, like how much people died/killed by that faction...etc.

  Sive0n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/05
Posts: 27

9/10/13 9:50:43 PM#352

I agree with the hypothesis that k/d changes players and the community behavior, but i like to see a way to see/show how decent a player is. So I propose to have a score or combat rating that should take all actions things a player does into consideration, this would be a mathematical formula that would include kills, deaths, revives, heals, captured objectives, attacked objectives, etc...

an Example:

A player could have two internal hidden variables, "positiveScore" and "negativeScore". Each time they do something positive(kill an enemy, revive, capture an objective,etc..) it gets added to the positiveScore, each time the player does something negative(death, losing an objective, friendly fire, team kill) it gets added to the negativeScore.

Combat Rating = positiveScore / negativeScore

This way you get all the advantages from having a score without the disadvantages of detrimental things like k/d, it just shows your general effectiveness.

It also allows for interesting things like having hidden multipliers to add a little extra(bonus points) when you do things in a certain way, like "capturing an objective without dieing", etc...

 

PS: really looking forward the the official forum... it needs a suggestion area that allows players to vote for the ideas.

  Nonderyon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/07
Posts: 171

9/10/13 10:37:59 PM#353

Still, there are bunch of people who would say: "your rank is too low" and dont get invite or just kick out from party...

So, my option is "don't need any score what show how good anyone is" unless something about leadership or commanding

  DecisiveRaindrop

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/13
Posts: 17

9/10/13 11:26:57 PM#354
There will always be people who are the elitists who will continually put down people due to skill, but what if we did a ranking system for the guilds, listing awesome feats of awesomeness. This way, there will be recognition in the community. There will always be the elite guilds that are very over the top pro, but there will also be aspiring guilds out there doing great things too. This also has the benefit of bringing the guild together to achieve the impossible, so they might get some recognition. There will also be those guilds who would not be so successful, but unfortunately not everyone will get fair chances for becoming a more respected player, but that is life. It may sound a bit cruel, but not everyone wins.
  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 340

9/11/13 1:52:15 AM#355
Originally posted by Sive0n

I agree with the hypothesis that k/d changes players and the community behavior, but i like to see a way to see/show how decent a player is. So I propose to have a score or combat rating that should take all actions things a player does into consideration, this would be a mathematical formula that would include kills, deaths, revives, heals, captured objectives, attacked objectives, etc...

an Example:

A player could have two internal hidden variables, "positiveScore" and "negativeScore". Each time they do something positive(kill an enemy, revive, capture an objective,etc..) it gets added to the positiveScore, each time the player does something negative(death, losing an objective, friendly fire, team kill) it gets added to the negativeScore.

Combat Rating = positiveScore / negativeScore

This way you get all the advantages from having a score without the disadvantages of detrimental things like k/d, it just shows your general effectiveness.

It also allows for interesting things like having hidden multipliers to add a little extra(bonus points) when you do things in a certain way, like "capturing an objective without dieing", etc...

 

PS: really looking forward the the official forum... it needs a suggestion area that allows players to vote for the ideas.

but that would feed what quotheraving said

they would try to avoid everything what pulls down your score

losing an objective pulls your score down > oh then i dont go defend something

dieing pulls your score down > oh then i just wait here and put my sniperrifle on

 

 

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  Batpimp

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/13
Posts: 26

www.dawnofwar.info

9/11/13 3:50:18 PM#356
Originally posted by Sive0n

I agree with the hypothesis that k/d changes players and the community behavior, but i like to see a way to see/show how decent a player is. So I propose to have a score or combat rating that should take all actions things a player does into consideration, this would be a mathematical formula that would include kills, deaths, revives, heals, captured objectives, attacked objectives, etc...

an Example:

A player could have two internal hidden variables, "positiveScore" and "negativeScore". Each time they do something positive(kill an enemy, revive, capture an objective,etc..) it gets added to the positiveScore, each time the player does something negative(death, losing an objective, friendly fire, team kill) it gets added to the negativeScore.

Combat Rating = positiveScore / negativeScore

This way you get all the advantages from having a score without the disadvantages of detrimental things like k/d, it just shows your general effectiveness.

It also allows for interesting things like having hidden multipliers to add a little extra(bonus points) when you do things in a certain way, like "capturing an objective without dieing", etc...

 

PS: really looking forward the the official forum... it needs a suggestion area that allows players to vote for the ideas.

While I think an idea like this is useful, I think it would detract from the developers time to balance the game. For instance, I would MUCH rather have them have a simple idea implemented. Your checks and balances is great in theory but I would much rather have a snapshot in 2 seconds of whom has done what. As in captured points, rezzed other players. In clear writing i just want an absolute amount.

Problems i see with making it TOO in depth i see is :Time wasted for developers working numbers and checks and balances instead of worrying about if people are having fun, if they are immersed, and if team play is being incentivized.

Or another problem could be is:  what is more important rezzing players or killing players? Following orders or going rogue and causing mayhem? I think thats up to opinion. In this way i think its better to have a simple layout with a snapshot of whats going on and LET YOU decide whats important. I imagine more things going wrong and adding more details like this could only end up  making things worse....sometimes LESS is better and more is worse.

  Batpimp

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/13
Posts: 26

www.dawnofwar.info

9/11/13 3:54:10 PM#357
Originally posted by Savij
Originally posted by Sive0n

I agree with the hypothesis that k/d changes players and the community behavior, but i like to see a way to see/show how decent a player is. So I propose to have a score or combat rating that should take all actions things a player does into consideration, this would be a mathematical formula that would include kills, deaths, revives, heals, captured objectives, attacked objectives, etc...

an Example:

A player could have two internal hidden variables, "positiveScore" and "negativeScore". Each time they do something positive(kill an enemy, revive, capture an objective,etc..) it gets added to the positiveScore, each time the player does something negative(death, losing an objective, friendly fire, team kill) it gets added to the negativeScore.

Combat Rating = positiveScore / negativeScore

This way you get all the advantages from having a score without the disadvantages of detrimental things like k/d, it just shows your general effectiveness.

It also allows for interesting things like having hidden multipliers to add a little extra(bonus points) when you do things in a certain way, like "capturing an objective without dieing", etc...

 

PS: really looking forward the the official forum... it needs a suggestion area that allows players to vote for the ideas.

but that would feed what quotheraving said

they would try to avoid everything what pulls down your score

losing an objective pulls your score down > oh then i dont go defend something

dieing pulls your score down > oh then i just wait here and put my sniperrifle on

 

 

Exactly. In all my years of gaming i have learned a few things. PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS ALWAYS GAME THE SYSTEM. It is better to give them NO OPTIONS than to give them too many, especially when the game is brand new.

 

I do however that Squads and GUILDS/CLANs should be rewarded with team work..individual players whom do good a battle field could just get maybe a title after their name like in guildwars or aesthetic changes. In the match though just give me the gist and the important things...Strategic points..squad leaders names..and troop movement. I dont need to know you got 43 headshots.

  patrickbalthazar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 133

9/12/13 10:43:17 AM#358
Originally posted by Batpimp
Originally posted by Savij
Originally posted by Sive0n

I agree with the hypothesis that k/d changes players and the community behavior, but i like to see a way to see/show how decent a player is. So I propose to have a score or combat rating that should take all actions things a player does into consideration, this would be a mathematical formula that would include kills, deaths, revives, heals, captured objectives, attacked objectives, etc...

an Example:

A player could have two internal hidden variables, "positiveScore" and "negativeScore". Each time they do something positive(kill an enemy, revive, capture an objective,etc..) it gets added to the positiveScore, each time the player does something negative(death, losing an objective, friendly fire, team kill) it gets added to the negativeScore.

Combat Rating = positiveScore / negativeScore

This way you get all the advantages from having a score without the disadvantages of detrimental things like k/d, it just shows your general effectiveness.

It also allows for interesting things like having hidden multipliers to add a little extra(bonus points) when you do things in a certain way, like "capturing an objective without dieing", etc...

 

PS: really looking forward the the official forum... it needs a suggestion area that allows players to vote for the ideas.

but that would feed what quotheraving said

they would try to avoid everything what pulls down your score

losing an objective pulls your score down > oh then i dont go defend something

dieing pulls your score down > oh then i just wait here and put my sniperrifle on

 

 

Exactly. In all my years of gaming i have learned a few things. PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS ALWAYS GAME THE SYSTEM. It is better to give them NO OPTIONS than to give them too many, especially when the game is brand new.

 

I do however that Squads and GUILDS/CLANs should be rewarded with team work..individual players whom do good a battle field could just get maybe a title after their name like in guildwars or aesthetic changes. In the match though just give me the gist and the important things...Strategic points..squad leaders names..and troop movement. I dont need to know you got 43 headshots.

It's nice of you guys that you discuss these things, especially since I am very keen on getting a good system here, but I think the thread is more for questions, rather then suggestions and discussions.

that said - I agree, the system we will make is not finished, we will invest more time in it for sure, but it's not the time yet to set them in stone. We are listening to all of you and we will make sure as many players as possible will be happy with the system in the end - that is for sure!

And just as conclusion to this: thx all for the interest and the dedication you show, I am sure together we will make a great game everyone can be proud of!

Patrick Balthazar
Tech Lead - Behaviour Online
Lead Programmer - Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade
www.EternalCrusade.com - #eternalcrusade - @lordpada

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 340

9/12/13 12:34:57 PM#359
What are the actual things The devs are working in? :P

Maybe something we can help with? :3

Im so exited! I want to be a gear in your developer engine!

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  patrickbalthazar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 133

9/12/13 12:44:24 PM#360
Originally posted by Savij
What are the actual things The devs are working in? :P

Maybe something we can help with? :3

Im so exited! I want to be a gear in your developer engine!

we are currently focusing on the combat experience - so everything that makes the combat fun and smooth, good looking, etc.

Patrick Balthazar
Tech Lead - Behaviour Online
Lead Programmer - Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade
www.EternalCrusade.com - #eternalcrusade - @lordpada

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