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Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Forum » General Discussion » Ideas and Suggestions for Eternal Crusade (renamed)

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  User Deleted
7/22/13 5:25:17 PM#141
Originally posted by Gholos
Originally posted by quotheraving
Originally posted by freakishbean
Originally posted by Gholos

My suggestion: i would to see Imperial Guard at the release and in particular the Ogryn.

I think that Imperial Guard could works like Ork Boyz (FTP) for the normal Guardsman, cause like Ork Boyz they are weaker than a Space Marine and more numerous; futhermore i think that not all the players that want to play free are supposed to chose an ork so give another choice to them could be a good idea.

As major Imperial Guard's classes, could be introduced: Commisar, Ogryn, Kaserkin, Sanctioned Psyker.

And if you want to use a trinity like system, it could works this way:

Commisar = crowd control class/ buffer

Ogryn = tank/ melee dps

Kaserkin = ranged dps

Sanctioned Psyker = healer

I'd rather see an Imperial Guardsman with a Medic loadout be the designated "healer", rather then a Psyker. Psyker should be crowd control. But simply put, organizing everything into a class system is a bad idea, unless it is a very, VERY specialized role - IE, Psykers.

I'd be very careful about having a dedicated healer class in any shooter style game!

As I pointed out in another thread the holy trinity (tank, dps,healer) of character roles biasses the game towards longer and longer battles which ultimately reduces the feeling of action in the game.

I do however agree that characters need to have very distinct battlefield roles in order to have a clear purpose in a battle, shoes that no-one else can fill!  However apeing the holy trinity of tab target mmos and the earlier pen n paper rpgs that they were inspired by is not the way to achieve this in my opinion.

 

Ask yourself this... Is there a strong role for healers in WH40k the tabletop game?

Let's take the obvious 'healer' for an example, the Apthecary.

An apothecary allows the squad he's with to ignore the first failed But bear in mind that it's no help against wounds that don't allow an armour save: ones with an AP of 3 or better, or which ignore armour saves (like power weapons).

 

In effect he acts to prevent damage, though this just represents his quickly tending to wounds and allowing Marines to fight on.

What he doesn't do is to magically remove damage, which is indicated by the fact that he can't remove wounds already suffered by a multiwound character and can't prevent grievous wounds from sources that are likely to result in fatal wounds (such as power weapons and weapons which bypass armor).

So fluff has it then that he helps tend the wounded and is capable of getting wounded SpaceMarines back into the fight, but clearly his medical abilities are severely limited and there is an underlying rationale at work, a rationale that would be severely challenged by rendering him with the usual mmo style healing role.

 

 

Yes i understand what you mean, i m not sure that a trinity system will fit this game well, this is why i say "if"".

Howether in my mmo experience it is the only system that work well and that allow you to build up group with classes that need to coordinate and rely on others in order to survive. Dont forget that this game will have PvE contents too so strictly tabletop rules couldnt be sufficient.

 

Another way to intend the classes could be divide it in major roles:

 

front line classes: tough classes with high armor and wounds, that are very hard to kill and specialized in crushing enemy lines and that are strong in melee dps (for example: power fists, chain weapons, power weapons)

 

support classes: classes with less armor and wounds that cover and aid the frontline ones and that are specialized in long ranged weapons with high dps (for example: heavy weapons, sniper's rifles) or special abilities ( for example: psionic powers, healing skills)

 

scout classes: light classes with stealth ability that can explore the battleground, ambush enemies and set traps (for example: mines, explosives)

You're mistaking specialist troops with support troops (basically the support guys would be the crafters, the medics, etc, that would be mostly non-combat guys because funnily enough every faction in warhammer 40.000 has their craftsmen (marines have tech marines, orks have meks, eldar have bone singers if I am not mistaken and chaos have hereteks, the Imperial Guard would have tech priests by the way and the way this could work is in the following way: tech marine is more of a frontline crafter, basically not a full tactical marine in terms of durability but has more advanced weaponry and can do some light/medium crafting, the meks basically cobble together anything their hearts desire and have to deal with the durability and chemical stability of said objects, the bone singers could have ready access to crafting materials but would need a higher degree of skill to obtain good items, the hereteks would be allowed to experiment and do anything they wish which could result in some extremely advanced weapons but with high durability issues and if the imperial guard get put it: tech priests would take a long time to craft anything but the items they can craft, of which there are a plethora, are the best all rounders)).

  Gholos

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/13
Posts: 209

7/22/13 6:11:52 PM#142
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Gholos
Originally posted by quotheraving
Originally posted by freakishbean
Originally posted by Gholos

My suggestion: i would to see Imperial Guard at the release and in particular the Ogryn.

I think that Imperial Guard could works like Ork Boyz (FTP) for the normal Guardsman, cause like Ork Boyz they are weaker than a Space Marine and more numerous; futhermore i think that not all the players that want to play free are supposed to chose an ork so give another choice to them could be a good idea.

As major Imperial Guard's classes, could be introduced: Commisar, Ogryn, Kaserkin, Sanctioned Psyker.

And if you want to use a trinity like system, it could works this way:

Commisar = crowd control class/ buffer

Ogryn = tank/ melee dps

Kaserkin = ranged dps

Sanctioned Psyker = healer

I'd rather see an Imperial Guardsman with a Medic loadout be the designated "healer", rather then a Psyker. Psyker should be crowd control. But simply put, organizing everything into a class system is a bad idea, unless it is a very, VERY specialized role - IE, Psykers.

I'd be very careful about having a dedicated healer class in any shooter style game!

As I pointed out in another thread the holy trinity (tank, dps,healer) of character roles biasses the game towards longer and longer battles which ultimately reduces the feeling of action in the game.

I do however agree that characters need to have very distinct battlefield roles in order to have a clear purpose in a battle, shoes that no-one else can fill!  However apeing the holy trinity of tab target mmos and the earlier pen n paper rpgs that they were inspired by is not the way to achieve this in my opinion.

 

Ask yourself this... Is there a strong role for healers in WH40k the tabletop game?

Let's take the obvious 'healer' for an example, the Apthecary.

An apothecary allows the squad he's with to ignore the first failed But bear in mind that it's no help against wounds that don't allow an armour save: ones with an AP of 3 or better, or which ignore armour saves (like power weapons).

 

In effect he acts to prevent damage, though this just represents his quickly tending to wounds and allowing Marines to fight on.

What he doesn't do is to magically remove damage, which is indicated by the fact that he can't remove wounds already suffered by a multiwound character and can't prevent grievous wounds from sources that are likely to result in fatal wounds (such as power weapons and weapons which bypass armor).

So fluff has it then that he helps tend the wounded and is capable of getting wounded SpaceMarines back into the fight, but clearly his medical abilities are severely limited and there is an underlying rationale at work, a rationale that would be severely challenged by rendering him with the usual mmo style healing role.

 

 

Yes i understand what you mean, i m not sure that a trinity system will fit this game well, this is why i say "if"".

Howether in my mmo experience it is the only system that work well and that allow you to build up group with classes that need to coordinate and rely on others in order to survive. Dont forget that this game will have PvE contents too so strictly tabletop rules couldnt be sufficient.

 

Another way to intend the classes could be divide it in major roles:

 

front line classes: tough classes with high armor and wounds, that are very hard to kill and specialized in crushing enemy lines and that are strong in melee dps (for example: power fists, chain weapons, power weapons)

 

support classes: classes with less armor and wounds that cover and aid the frontline ones and that are specialized in long ranged weapons with high dps (for example: heavy weapons, sniper's rifles) or special abilities ( for example: psionic powers, healing skills)

 

scout classes: light classes with stealth ability that can explore the battleground, ambush enemies and set traps (for example: mines, explosives)

You're mistaking specialist troops with support troops (basically the support guys would be the crafters, the medics, etc, that would be mostly non-combat guys because funnily enough every faction in warhammer 40.000 has their craftsmen (marines have tech marines, orks have meks, eldar have bone singers if I am not mistaken and chaos have hereteks, the Imperial Guard would have tech priests by the way and the way this could work is in the following way: tech marine is more of a frontline crafter, basically not a full tactical marine in terms of durability but has more advanced weaponry and can do some light/medium crafting, the meks basically cobble together anything their hearts desire and have to deal with the durability and chemical stability of said objects, the bone singers could have ready access to crafting materials but would need a higher degree of skill to obtain good items, the hereteks would be allowed to experiment and do anything they wish which could result in some extremely advanced weapons but with high durability issues and if the imperial guard get put it: tech priests would take a long time to craft anything but the items they can craft, of which there are a plethora, are the best all rounders)).

With "support", i intend classes that in addiction to make ranged dps to cover their comrades in arms, are specialized in support them in other different  ways, for example: using flash grenates that blind enemies or smoke grenade that make allies more difficult to hit, crippling enemies with sniper's rifles shots, make ranged aoe dmg and dot or debuffing foes with granates launchers, make crowd controls using psionic powers, healing or buffing friends with different abilities for example a morale buff from a Commisar ability and so on...the term "support" is just to give an idea of what i mean.


"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  Nonderyon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/07
Posts: 171

7/22/13 7:20:36 PM#143

first of all, they intend to use cover, huge battle grounds, massive population...and i dont think someone have lot of hp just stand out and welcomming the shots because a healer bachink up...that is not w40k for sure...so i'm hope the combat mechanic would be intense and give back what we read in books (shot down arms, blow heads with a carefuly aimed shot), and not some kind of fellowship of the ring with Frodo in space marine armor fight out anything <- because they are the "heroes".

 

  Gholos

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/13
Posts: 209

7/23/13 2:52:30 AM#144
Originally posted by Nonderyon

first of all, they intend to use cover, huge battle grounds, massive population...and i dont think someone have lot of hp just stand out and welcomming the shots because a healer bachink up...that is not w40k for sure...so i'm hope the combat mechanic would be intense and give back what we read in books (shot down arms, blow heads with a carefuly aimed shot), and not some kind of fellowship of the ring with Frodo in space marine armor fight out anything <- because they are the "heroes".

 

I dont know if they want to do an FPS, a MMO or an hybrid of both game, but if it will be a MMO, your char. is supposed to raise in lv. or skills, to have higher hit points,  to have a role in the game and not to be istant killed by a single shot.
 This is not a tabletop game with an army to control, you have only your char. that need to be harder to being killed than a miniature.

Dont forget that the game will have a PvE too so i dont think that will be a pure shooter game.


"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 341

 
OP  7/23/13 3:21:20 AM#145
Originally posted by Gholos
Originally posted by Nonderyon

first of all, they intend to use cover, huge battle grounds, massive population...and i dont think someone have lot of hp just stand out and welcomming the shots because a healer bachink up...that is not w40k for sure...so i'm hope the combat mechanic would be intense and give back what we read in books (shot down arms, blow heads with a carefuly aimed shot), and not some kind of fellowship of the ring with Frodo in space marine armor fight out anything <- because they are the "heroes".

 

I dont know if they want to do an FPS, a MMO or an hybrid of both game, but if it will be a MMO, your char. is supposed to raise in lv. or skills, to have higher hit points,  to have a role in the game and not to be istant killed by a single shot.
 This is not a tabletop game with an army to control, you have only your char. that need to be harder to being killed than a miniature.

Dont forget that the game will have a PvE too so i dont think that will be a pure shooter game.

a level 1 will be able to kill a level 100 player the level 100 player will just have much more ways to kill his oponent and for sure some advantages but they are not that high that an level 1 will have not a sigle chance to kill him

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 341

 
OP  7/23/13 8:33:30 AM#146
another idea:

if i switch weapons from primary to secondary weapon i don’t want the primary weapon to disappear i want it to be placed where it has to be placed
like pistol into the holster on my weapon belt, greatswords on the back (with an holdingsystem not floating somewhere behind the back)
that would automatically limit the amount of different weapons we can carry and the size of the weapons

1 big melee or ranged weapon (rocket launcher) on the back (or if you got a jumppack, in the hands)
1 medium ranged weapon on a gunsling (if you have no big weapons with a jumppack)
1 fist weapon (if you have no big weapons)
1 small ranged weapon on the belt
1 small to medium melee weapon (if you have no big meleeweapon)

so you can have up to 4 different weapons at maximum (big ranged weapon, medium ranged weapon, medium melee weapon small ranged weapon)
and at least 2 different weapons at minimum (jumppack, big melee weapon, small ranged weapon)

and i would like to see weapon change animation (quick ones for sure, i don’t like the instant weapon swap in spacemarine between range and melee)

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  Gholos

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/13
Posts: 209

7/23/13 10:03:52 AM#147

suggestion: I think that could be interesting to introduce in the game that want to be a large and realistic battle simulation some degree of friendly fire.

Obviously not with all normal attacks, but for example when you use a very heavy weapon with big aoe dmg or on artillery attack and so on


"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 341

 
OP  7/23/13 10:30:53 AM#148
Originally posted by Gholos

suggestion: I think that could be interesting to introduce in the game that want to be a large and realistic battle simulation some degree of friendly fire.

Obviously not with all normal attacks, but for example when you use a very heavy weapon with big aoe dmg or on artillery attack and so on

they confirmed that friendly fire will be an element of the game but they are still try to find the right amount of this

i think they will have reduced dmg in friendly fire or split it between attacker and target ( i would like the first solution more)

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  Gholos

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/13
Posts: 209

7/23/13 10:35:15 AM#149
Originally posted by Savij
Originally posted by Gholos

suggestion: I think that could be interesting to introduce in the game that want to be a large and realistic battle simulation some degree of friendly fire.

Obviously not with all normal attacks, but for example when you use a very heavy weapon with big aoe dmg or on artillery attack and so on

they confirmed that friendly fire will be an element of the game but they are still try to find the right amount of this

i think they will have reduced dmg in friendly fire or split it between attacker and target ( i would like the first solution more)

Good new, this will make combat more tactical


"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  GitzStompa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/13
Posts: 54

7/25/13 4:17:19 AM#150

A suggestion I have is that make every chapter/legion/craftworld/clan have different "passive" kind of abilities.

A few things I'd have in mind would be the following: Bad Moonz, an ork clan which should have a passive that allows them to gather "teef" from fallen allies and get requisition points based on the amount of teeth they collect. The rate would be low however, somewhere around 0,1 requisition per teeth or something like that.  These "teef" are only shared by the Bad Moonz Clan though, and no other clan will be able to benefit from the gathered resources. They can however, steal teef from the Bad Moonz themselves if they so desire.

If you introduce DeathSkulls, the famous looters of the orkz, they could have an ability to scavenge weapons from the battlefield, and transform them into orchish weapons with relative ease. Their expertise would also be seen by looting fallen enemy vehicles and transforming them into orchish vehicles much faster than other orchish clans or something like that.

I'm yet to think about other passives for other races but I think you understod what I ment.. hopefully, lol.

 

Another suggestion I have is that make ork weapons sound loud! Noice is one of the most important factors in ork weaponry. This could vary by weapon, for example: Shoota being  a loud weapon, but not as loud as a Big Shoota. Also, by painting your weapons to different colors, it could modify your weapon of choice. For example, red color makes the weapon shoot faster, but have increased recoil. painting the weapon blue would give you more luck, thus increasing your accuracy but reducing the weapon's noice and firepower.

 

Also,  Orkz should indeed have an ability that is increased by their numbers. This is Da WAAAAAGH! for example. Every ork would increase their speed and resiliance to ranged firepower when this ability is activated. The more orkz, the beter the ability is. However, there's a downside to this. Should the leaders of the charge die (Nobz), all boyz lose their bonuses instantly, or they're greatly reduced.

 

 

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16806

7/25/13 4:22:39 AM#151

Just stay so close as possible o Warhammers original mechanics and world.

No censorship to make the game more child friendly or mechanics that MMOers are used to, that have been tried before and it turned of the actual Warhammer fans fast.

The game really should be made for Warhammer fans, Wow fans already play Wow and so on.

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 341

 
OP  7/25/13 4:26:45 AM#152
Originally posted by GitzStompa

Also,  Orkz should indeed have an ability that is increased by their numbers. This is Da WAAAAAGH! for example. Every ork would increase their speed and resiliance to ranged firepower when this ability is activated. The more orkz, the beter the ability is. However, there's a downside to this. Should the leaders of the charge die (Nobz), all boyz lose their bonuses instantly, or they're greatly reduced.

i had some thoughts about this

like this for example:

"a hord of 100 orks are heading to a fortress of spacemarines but before they start the charge they pumping up their rage! the nobs start to hammer their weapons against their armor and start a warcry that gets louder and louder, orkboys around them join them and form a big loud mob of orks(te more te betta!) after they finished they get a big chargebonus in form of an movementspeed buff and damage reduction while charging"

for sure the waaagh would stop if the bozzez are killed

maybe da orks should only be able to waaagh if they are in a strikeforce and just the strikeforce bozz can start the waaagh ability and must be killed to stop it

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  GitzStompa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/13
Posts: 54

7/25/13 4:27:03 AM#153
Originally posted by Loke666

Just stay so close as possible o Warhammers original mechanics and world.

No censorship to make the game more child friendly or mechanics that MMOers are used to, that have been tried before and it turned of the actual Warhammer fans fast.

The game really should be made for Warhammer fans, Wow fans already play Wow and so on.

 

A hundred times this. If I remember right, Miguel stated that there's no "quests" that require you to bring 5 hormaugaunt venom sacks to a chapter master, which is good. A game like this shouldn't have boring quests like that. 

  GitzStompa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/13
Posts: 54

7/25/13 4:31:44 AM#154
Originally posted by Savij
Originally posted by GitzStompa

Also,  Orkz should indeed have an ability that is increased by their numbers. This is Da WAAAAAGH! for example. Every ork would increase their speed and resiliance to ranged firepower when this ability is activated. The more orkz, the beter the ability is. However, there's a downside to this. Should the leaders of the charge die (Nobz), all boyz lose their bonuses instantly, or they're greatly reduced.

i had some thoughts about this

like this for example:

"a hord of 100 orks are heading to a fortress of spacemarines but before they start the charge they pumping up their rage! the nobs start to hammer their weapons against their armor and start a warcry that gets louder and louder, orkboys around them join them and form a big loud mob of orks(te more te betta!) after they finished they get a big chargebonus in form of an movementspeed buff and damage reduction while charging"

for sure the waaagh would stop if the bozzez are killed

maybe da orks should only be able to waaagh if they are in a strikeforce and just the strikeforce bozz can start the waaagh ability and must be killed to stop it

Sounds good to me.  What I'm still thinking about what kind of penalties would the charging orkz receive if the boss is killed? Like.. do they just loose combat willingness and sufffer a crazy amount of penalties? We need to stay true to the lore, but i think it would be a bit unfair if the WAAAGh would end and the orkz would be basically pointless after it (which happens in lore, if the bozz is killed all the boyz go in disarray and start fighting eahc other in the worst scenario). What kind of penalty should be an approriate one, or should there be any penalties at all?

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16806

7/25/13 4:38:39 AM#155
Originally posted by GitzStompa

A hundred times this. If I remember right, Miguel stated that there's no "quests" that require you to bring 5 hormaugaunt venom sacks to a chapter master, which is good. A game like this shouldn't have boring quests like that. 

Agreed. Then again if our Pathfinder/D&D DM would give us that in pen and paper we would just laugh in his face and turn the thing down so I am not sure in which lore quests like that is fine.

A MMO set in a specific world should do as much as possible to make that game as close as the original IP, otherwise they could just have made their own world instead. And the game really should be made for fans of the IP instead trying to steal fans from other MMOs.

I think that a well made Warhammer game could get millions of Warhammer fans into MMOs so it doesn't really need to steal others subs. Wow did get the Blizzard fans into MMOs and if they make this game right it have the potential of getting a large numbers of new players into MMOs.

Then again, I said the same thing when WAR was announced, chances are that we get a game that is just like everything else but I hope not since this really is a huge opportunity to actually get in new folks and try out something different.

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 341

 
OP  7/25/13 4:52:16 AM#156
Originally posted by GitzStompa
Originally posted by Savij
Originally posted by GitzStompa

Also,  Orkz should indeed have an ability that is increased by their numbers. This is Da WAAAAAGH! for example. Every ork would increase their speed and resiliance to ranged firepower when this ability is activated. The more orkz, the beter the ability is. However, there's a downside to this. Should the leaders of the charge die (Nobz), all boyz lose their bonuses instantly, or they're greatly reduced.

i had some thoughts about this

like this for example:

"a hord of 100 orks are heading to a fortress of spacemarines but before they start the charge they pumping up their rage! the nobs start to hammer their weapons against their armor and start a warcry that gets louder and louder, orkboys around them join them and form a big loud mob of orks(te more te betta!) after they finished they get a big chargebonus in form of an movementspeed buff and damage reduction while charging"

for sure the waaagh would stop if the bozzez are killed

maybe da orks should only be able to waaagh if they are in a strikeforce and just the strikeforce bozz can start the waaagh ability and must be killed to stop it

Sounds good to me.  What I'm still thinking about what kind of penalties would the charging orkz receive if the boss is killed? Like.. do they just loose combat willingness and sufffer a crazy amount of penalties? We need to stay true to the lore, but i think it would be a bit unfair if the WAAAGh would end and the orkz would be basically pointless after it (which happens in lore, if the bozz is killed all the boyz go in disarray and start fighting eahc other in the worst scenario). What kind of penalty should be an approriate one, or should there be any penalties at all?

when da bozz is killed, then there is short periot 5-10s where all other waaaghmember are slowed down 30 to 50% maybe and are extra vurnuable to damage after the periot a new waaaghbozz is assingned (per vote or the next strongest/best ork squad leader)

the waaagh continues but maybe with lower waaagh boni

and for sure the waaaghbozz needs some protection to not get killed to easy like a shield or extra HP buff (ya da waaaghbozz needs to be stronga then is mates)

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  GitzStompa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/13
Posts: 54

7/27/13 12:22:49 PM#157

A few more suggestions

 1. It would be really cool if a battle squad could construct their own vehicle, and modify it to their liking:)

2. Customization colors on your character could take inspiration from DoW's army painter.

3.  A combo system like in Space Marine would be cool. Something like rmb,rmb,f (something like a shoulderbash,headbutt of some sort). It would be cool if the combos were different on each weapon. 

  quotheraving

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/10
Posts: 279

7/28/13 10:09:55 AM#158
Originally posted by Loke666

Just stay so close as possible o Warhammers original mechanics and world.

No censorship to make the game more child friendly or mechanics that MMOers are used to, that have been tried before and it turned of the actual Warhammer fans fast.

The game really should be made for Warhammer fans, Wow fans already play Wow and so on.

Once again I kinda both agree and disagree with this, though my disagreement is mainly a matter of quibbling over the way it was said rather than the intent behind what was said.

 

I personally think that they need to stay as close as possible to the descriptions of how things are in the WH40k universe rather than to the actual mechanics.

Afterall the game rules and mechanics are just abstract ways of representing an imaginary conflict.

What does it matter that in the tabletop game you move then shoot then charge, this is just a way of breaking things down into an easily represented progression.

 

As long as the imaginary universe that all these mechanics try to describe is well represented and feels 'real' or at least real enough, then the game designers and programmers will have succeeded.

 

...............................................................................................................................

Anyway I came bearing some suggestions, so moving on.

 

Firstly (and I've mentioned this before in passing) the 40k rules have become, I'm tempted to say dumbed down, but to be fair I'll opt for "increasingly abstracted" with each iteration of the rules.

This isn't a bad thing, but it does mean that some of the abilities of the units have become fuzzier and fuzzier, until the present stage where many of these are just represented by generic abilities such as 'Hit & Run".

This works great for a tabletop game, but when you are looking for zesty and colorful abilities to adapt to an MMO they don't really do a great job of communicating what is supposed to be happening in a way you can really get your teeth into.

 

So my first suggestion is for the developers to try and lay their hands on the relevant 2nd  Edition Codex-es (Codices?) as the racial abilities are typically represented with their own special (and to be fair sometimes cumbersome) rules in a manner that makes it clear what is happening behind the mask of the mechanics.

 

A good example are Howling Banshees who in 6th Edition just halve the opponents initiative, but in 2nd Edition completely paralyse the opponent, albeit briefly, as they charged in, preventing them from fighting back at all and if I remember rightly even interfering with their ability to fire overwatch.

This was explained as the Banshees psychically channeling their rage into the psychosonic amplifiers of their masks causing it to emit a focussed psychic and sonic shockwave that would temporarily overload the nervous system of the opponent.

It is this kind of color that the new rules often fail to convey, and which is invaluable when looking for inspiration for how to represent unit abilities.

 

My second suggestion (and it will be unpopular in some quarters) is to avoid harlequins like the plague!

The reason for this is simple... If you make their holofields look like they are supposed to then they will make an absolute mess of the game's visuals.

Basically a holofield is supposed to cause the target to break up into a shifting, swirling cloud of fractured images making targeting the harlequin exceedingly difficult. Sounds great yeah? Now imagine that in a computer game. Nuff said!

 

My final suggestion would be for you, team crusade :), to see if you can find some way to cross collaborate with the team making The Lord Inquisitor.

This is a really good quality fan made animated movie (nothing like the space giraffes in Ultramarines, I mean actually good!) and in making it they have created a whole bunch of exceedingly high quality assets (think starcraft2 intro movie quality) that are ideally suited to being used in a computer game (when scaled down) and conversely I am sure that there are many assets that will be created for a game that they in turn could use (access to voice actors, models and the like).

They are making this entirely off their own backs, unfunded and fuelled only by energy drinks and a mad keen enthusiasm for all things 40k and are likely to be ready to roll out a short prologue in late 2014 with the project continuing on beyond that point for a full 40+ minute movie, putting their development schedule parallel to EC.

 

Here is a video detailing this project and the skills they are looking for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=024zGUxwyGY

  freakishbean

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 176

8/02/13 10:05:12 PM#159
If there are 2 things that Warhammer Online did right, it was the Tome of Knoweldge and Public Quests. I'd like to see these implemented somehow. Like, say, Eldar are trying to summon an Avatar of Khaine, and the Orks attempt to put an end to the rituals. Or Chaos Cultists trying to summon a demon, and the Space Marines stopping it. A Techmarine could be trying to unlock and utilize a Titan to use, and everyone tries to smash his face in.

Needing is Wanting...
Wanting is Coveting...
Coveting is Sinning...
I am SO going to Hell.

  quotheraving

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/10
Posts: 279

8/03/13 4:18:25 AM#160
Originally posted by freakishbean
 Like, say, Eldar are trying to summon an Avatar of Khaine.

'Summoning' the Avatar of Khaine is a little more than just a bunch of warlocks gathered at a makeshift shrine and chanting a spell so an Avatar can spawn!

 

Stopping the Eldar from awakening Khaine would involve a journey to the very heart of the craftworld where the Avatar of Khaine sleeps.

Once there they would need to interrupt the massive ceremony involving every Exarch and aspect warrior on that craftworld, not to mention the seer council as they escort the Young King to the Avatar's chamber where he will be absorbed so that his spirit may quicken the avatar and wake Khaine's rage.

Furthermore they would need to do all this before the Eldar even joined the battle as the Avatar is typically only awakened before battle is joined (once the Avatar is summoned the majority of that craftworld's Eldar go mad with his bloodlust so entering battle at that point is pretty much a given!) in preparation for a moment of direst need forseen by the greatest seers of that craftworld.

 

Basically you are suggesting a public quest to destroy a craftworld before it has prepared for war!

 

Let's just hope the GW writer attached to Eternal Crusade isn't CS Goto or Matt Ward or that sort of quest may very well be a possibility. Hell if it's Goto the Eldar forces will probably be destroyed by kids with rocks and sticks. 

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