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Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Forum » General Discussion » 3 Month long Campaigns - Too long?

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22 posts found
  Razephon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 624

 
OP  6/13/13 2:09:21 PM#1

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/954/feature/7493/There-Is-Only-WAR.html/page/1

So according to that article:

"Each campaign will last three months, and then a winner will be declared. The game’s focus will reset to a new planet in the universe that Games Workshop has given Behaviour to make their own".

 

My only concern is that 3 months is too long for what is essentially a limited amount of content. Sure sure, you can liken it to an online shooter which manages to keep players interested for that long. Granted there will be many things to do, but frankly I think doing the same content daily for 3 months will get boring fast.

Let me be clear, this isn't a casual vs. hardcore thread. Regardless of your play time and progression, it will likely be similar to the Planetside 2 model which allows you to remain competitive regardless of your progression in the game. There will only be so much you accomplish before getting bored.

Sure it takes a week or two to get truly invested in a war campaign, but at the 1 month point the battle will feel like its stagnating for a lot of people. I can almost guarantee a lull in the combat during the 2nd month, with a ramp up to the end of the campaign. That's how long battles play out. Its fine for a week or so, but having a lull over a 3 month period could really cause huge drops in player numbers.

3 months sounds like enough time to build a brand new battle scenario, but the problem is building sufficient content to last that long, then building it ALL OVER AGAIN for the next 3 months and iterating on it enough to keep things fresh and interesting!

Personally I liked the pacing of GW2's WvW. Week long campaigns were sufficiently long. If your server was losing you didn't have to wait long to be matched with another server. Here however, I am assuming it will be one large persistent shard. Hence being on the losing side for an entire campaign could get boring pretty fast.

I just hope they really think this through.

 

Currently Playing Random shizzle!
Waiting on TERA, GW2, TSW

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3728

RIP City of Heroes!

6/13/13 3:40:21 PM#2

Since you put in the bit about hardcore vs casual, I suspect somewhere within that is YOUR problem.  It's like the guy who said I am not trying to dis this game but {insert dis about the game}.  I suspect the issue is you want it now (or in a "week" ::wink wink::).

Without more information about the game, how can anyone know if 3 months is the right thing for the game?  What you can do is know if 3 months is right/wrong for you.  That boils down to the want it now/impatient factor. 

 

I would love to see a system where 3 months is a great campaign.  Sure you will have quiters.  Who gives a XXXX about them? to heck with them.

  Scalpless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1281

6/13/13 3:47:06 PM#3

It's really too early to say. We just don't know enough yet. It also depends on how different the planets are. If they're too similar, even switching every day wouldn't help. On the other hand, if they're very different, fleshing them out will require time.

  Shelvinarr

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/04
Posts: 43

6/13/13 10:02:31 PM#4

My thoughts on the three month long campaign. Imagine a planet. An entire planet. Not a Planetside 2 planet, but a planet in Warhammer 40k. Yes, they have ground transports and ways to do planetary drops, but in my mind..they are starting from ground zero. Each faction will have a HQ, this opens up a large array of possibilities. From conquering mines/cities to produce war material for weapons, armor, vehicles, and fresh recruits. And now imagine 4 playable factions doing this all the while defending against Tyranid, a hive mind entity that feels no fear. If they made it truly awe inspiring, and when you conquered a city from your enemy you feel this giant sense of accomplishment, I can tell you a lot of people will stick around.

 

Not to compare a drowning/failed game..but let's look at Warhammer Online, I played for about a year and the most fun I had was conquering keeps, defending keeps, losing keeps..regaining keeps. At times, yes, I was frustrated that we lost it..but it was still fun to reclaim the same keep over and over, only to move on to another region. I imagine once you hold a region, let's use Earth as an example, imagine conquering North America. Now what? You not only have to divert forces to defend your newly captured continent, but you have to press on the attack to encompass the rest of the world. And there are four enemies that at any moment could reclaim your continent. I understand what you're saying, and I can see it but at the same time it's all a matter of personal preference. Some people hated the aforementioned game, some love it so much they are still playing it.

 

I can only speculate, as we all can since the game is 18 months from beta. Hopefully they do it right and it doesn't get sacrificed to the Golden Throne like Dark Millennium did.

  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 832

6/14/13 5:57:46 AM#5

no, not too long for me,I ll be ok if campaigns take few years !

It Is WAR 40K!

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2887

6/14/13 6:13:27 AM#6
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph

no, not too long for me,I ll be ok if campaigns take few years !

It Is WAR 40K!

As this man says no one would really mind campaigns which drag on for longer than 3 months... OP you need to go read the Gaunt's Ghost series of books to get an idea how long some planetary conquests take ( if you think 3 months is allot  try 10-20 years as a average XD especially in the Sabbat's Worlds crusade).

 

That said by the time this game comes out I will likely be A) done with my master's (thus have some breathing room, the phd will take upwards of 5 years bare minimum so I know once I am done with the master's I'll have some actual game time to the degree a warhammer 40.000 MMO would require) B) have a job which will give me the funds to splurge on the factions I want to play from the current roster ( Orks, Space Marine if possible only the scout branch and maybe something from chaos... I hope to God they put in the Imperial Guard after a while and allow basic guardsman up to say platoon leaders to be free to play as well, just to spice things up a bit and because Warhammer 40.000 without the Imperial Guard is like a Big Mac without the meat paddies).

  Waizer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/14/10
Posts: 125

6/14/13 6:23:03 AM#7

way too early to tell, could be 3 months is not long enough for alll we know atm

 

can't wait to find out tho :)

  User Deleted
6/14/13 7:48:55 PM#8

Originally posted by Razephon

Personally I liked the pacing of GW2's WvW. Week long campaigns were sufficiently long. If your server was losing you didn't have to wait long to be matched with another server. Here however, I am assuming it will be one large persistent shard. Hence being on the losing side for an entire campaign could get boring pretty fast.

 

Originally posted by Shelvinarr

Not to compare a drowning/failed game..but let's look at Warhammer Online, I played for about a year and the most fun I had was conquering keeps, defending keeps, losing keeps..regaining keeps. At times, yes, I was frustrated that we lost it..but it was still fun to reclaim the same keep over and over, only to move on to another region. I imagine once you hold a region, let's use Earth as an example, imagine conquering North America. Now what? You not only have to divert forces to defend your newly captured continent, but you have to press on the attack to encompass the rest of the world. 

 

Razephon, the fact that you think people should wait around for new matches because they are loosing the current one is heresy. Get out there and fight for your glorious Emperor or die trying!

  Kothoses

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/08/10
Posts: 681

6/16/13 7:59:01 AM#9

Thats not the actual quote

 

That’s the reason why we’ll have campaigns up to three months long. We want to have a winner at the end of the day. I hate massive PvP where you fight and fight and fight but there’s never a real winner.

I say up to three months, because if a bunch of Navy Seals decide to form a guild or a chapter and play our game, most likely they will defeat everyone else very fast because they know military strategy, and our game will be a realistic representation of military strategy. If this happens, and it happens too fast, in order to keep the game somehow balanced we have the Tyranid. They will be a race that we at Behaviour will control in addition to the dynamic weather system that can affect territories and performance.

If near the beginning of a new campaign we find out that the Space Marines are about to wipe out the whole planet in a week, they will suddenly attract a lot more interest from the Tyranid and will need to protect their borders a bit more and allow the other races to gather their strength and provide a real challenge. We’ll intervene to keep it moderately balanced, without too much influence, just enough to make a campaign last at least over two weeks…

 

 

 

Taken from  http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/06/14/interview-warhammer-40000-eternal-crusades-miguel-caron-shares-his-vision-for-a-next-gen-mmorpg/

Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  Vlacke

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/11
Posts: 156

6/16/13 9:05:29 AM#10
Originally posted by Scalpless

It's really too early to say. We just don't know enough yet. It also depends on how different the planets are. If they're too similar, even switching every day wouldn't help. On the other hand, if they're very different, fleshing them out will require time.

Agreed.

The good thing here is that they really have plenty of time to make a good game overall, which i honestly hope they will considering the fact that i have always wanted to play good WH40k MMO.

Hopefully i wont have to dish out 50 bucks for a Space Marine and another 20 for a decent Bolt gun, considering the direction some companies are taking with their inflated cash shops nowadays.

  Hienzwar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 15

Valar Morghulis

6/23/13 5:11:40 AM#11

Not to long at all, will help promote realm/faction pride! Open world combat is how it should be as so many mmo's have and continue to have great pvp- alas its the nature of the beast that casual gamers will not enjoy it as much unless they get/buy goodies.

Personally i cant wait, love the pvp in WAR and even after 5 years its hanging in there, PS2 is fun but limited so hope this goes well for the dev team :)

 

  Razephon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 624

 
OP  6/23/13 5:28:41 PM#12

In a more recent article it was mentioned that they could be from 2 weeks to 3 months. So that has pacified me for now :p.

Also guys, yes I know in lore campaigns can last a damn long time. But this is a game, people get bored of the same content again and again. 

Personally played Planetside 2 and they had a LOT of land mass to wage war upon. It did eventually get stale. 

Either way, there's going to have to be a good variety of content for people to remain entertained for 3 months. 

Currently Playing Random shizzle!
Waiting on TERA, GW2, TSW

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 340

6/24/13 4:59:50 AM#13
Originally posted by Razephon

In a more recent article it was mentioned that they could be from 2 weeks to 3 months. So that has pacified me for now :p.

Also guys, yes I know in lore campaigns can last a damn long time. But this is a game, people get bored of the same content again and again. 

Personally played Planetside 2 and they had a LOT of land mass to wage war upon. It did eventually get stale. 

Either way, there's going to have to be a good variety of content for people to remain entertained for 3 months. 

in PS2 the only problem for me was that it take waaay to long to upgrade your stuff if you dont pay real money

i wasnt even able to kill some1 in an jet couse i had just that standard weap and all others had super easy kill aiming rockets ^^

the only fun i had was as sniper or by spawnkilling people with an flying guy, jumping up on a roof where they dont find me^^

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1869

6/24/13 7:30:30 AM#14
In DAOC   the fight between the 3 factions NEVER ends.
  Razephon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 624

 
OP  6/24/13 5:15:05 PM#15
In that respect I wonder how things will turn out with 4 factions! I think 4 makes things a lot more interesting than 3, which is typically 2v1. 

Currently Playing Random shizzle!
Waiting on TERA, GW2, TSW

  krage

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 411

6/24/13 6:11:43 PM#16

3 Months will be too long if the game is agonizingly unbalanced. Although war and factions in 40k is not balanced the game must be sorta close to avoid 3 month campaigns being 2 months and 29 days of being camped/camping by winning factions if by some chance they can fight back the Tyranids.

Also as long as they also have shorter mini "Victory" conditions or objectives it should be fine having 3 months, to help those who need quicker results. I wonder what the conditions for Victory will be?

I wonder, will the campaigns be a set 3 months, or will there be victory conditions to end the campaign early to start a new one?

-Victory point cap or difference? Like a very high point score that ends the game which is the average point score over 3 months, or a number that triggers victory between a massive point disparity...to avoid being stuck in a crappy match for longer than necessary?

-Reinforcement/Respawn cap aka kill counting? This would also help reduce organized zerging or graveyard rushing being a legitimate course of action. Leaders may have to be careful where they lead their pug zergs to avoid too many casualties resulting in a loss.

-Take and hold terrain until map domination...or map domination for an extended period of time?

It would probably be best if they had things that reduce the 3 month campaign window, or extend it based around the war efforts.

It will help end poorly matched campaigns a bit faster without having to use the Tyranid Hammer too much. I am going to call it now, as soon as they start using the Tyranids to balance matches, players on the affected factions will rush the forums crying foul, making claims the GMs are nerfing them or bias.

 

  Savij

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 340

6/25/13 5:36:22 AM#17
if you read the other posts or the interview you will find out that the campains last 2 weeks up to 3 months

be always up to date about Eternal Crusade
WH40k:EC dev Tracker

Other EC Sites i'm in:
Dakkadakka Savij
Reddit EC Savij1337
EternalCrusader.com Savij

  Razephon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 624

 
OP  6/25/13 3:40:14 PM#18
Originally posted by Savij
if you read the other posts or the interview you will find out that the campains last 2 weeks up to 3 months

Yeah based on this I think it will be a point based quota we need to meet to achieve a victory. 

This most likely means that if a force suddenly dominated everything, then there is a possibility of 2 weeks. However if forces were very equal it could go all the way up to 3 months.

I can easily see organized faction zergs wreaking havoc in the off-peak hours...only to have their victories re-claimed when people get home from work! So I really think most campaigns will be somewhere in the middle.

 

I guess what I really meant to ask is what are their plans for releasing new campaigns? Since it was said that once a campaign has ended and 'true victory' has been achieved we will move onto a whole new campaign. Does that mean the same planet or different planet?

Currently Playing Random shizzle!
Waiting on TERA, GW2, TSW

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7166

6/25/13 3:43:57 PM#19
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph

no, not too long for me,I ll be ok if campaigns take few years !

It Is WAR 40K!

This. I hate resets. 

 

When is this thing coming out anyways?

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Maelkor

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/05
Posts: 462

6/25/13 5:44:43 PM#20
To alleviate some of your concerns - the way I read it is that there is a definite win scenario. IE when you accomplish whatever the scenario goal is such as capture the capitol city or whatever - you win. It wont matter how much time has passed - only that your side accomplished all of the win goals - meaning there shouldnt be a bunch of meaningless downtime. The only downside to such scenarios is that if your on a losing team I could see people leaving your side to go to another scenario on another server - but there should be mechanics to prevent that.
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