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71 posts found
  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1823

"I shall take your position into consideration"

3/21/13 2:05:44 PM#61
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666
 

Quality of a product like MMO is hardly measurable and its perception is subjective to a large extent.

You can look at recently released MMOs, most of them starts as P2P with a vision of maximized profit. When the market response shows they dont have the quality / ability to attract and maintain large playerbase, they go to F2P which is a less profitable business model generally speaking, but more profitable for their lower quality game.

I am convinced that subscription is not going anywhere. Top games will still be subs based.

Of course quality is subjective. However, commercial success is not.

If you look at top ranking games on xfire (MMO or not), only WOW is P2P. Everything else is either F2P or B2P.

If you look at industry data, F2P players already outnumbered p2P by 6 to 1, and F2P games are making as much money in total. The trend is that F2P is further going to gain share.

Devs are going to where the money is.

 

Again, quality of a product like MMO...quality of a car for example can be set quite objectively.

MMO or not...I dont remember games other than MMOs being P2P, so we should be looking at MMOs on xfire.

Yes F2P outnumber P2P because there are many MMOs of which only few can justify subscription, but if they can, they use it...that is why WoW is P2P because it is as you say where the money is.

Why do you think recent MMOs started as P2P...they wanted to make as much profit as possible. Only then they switched to F2P because it is where the money is for games for which there isnt demand at 15 USD / month.

If there is sufficient demand for a game with subs, it will be subs, not F2P.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4844

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/21/13 2:19:28 PM#62
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666
 

Quality of a product like MMO is hardly measurable and its perception is subjective to a large extent.

You can look at recently released MMOs, most of them starts as P2P with a vision of maximized profit. When the market response shows they dont have the quality / ability to attract and maintain large playerbase, they go to F2P which is a less profitable business model generally speaking, but more profitable for their lower quality game.

I am convinced that subscription is not going anywhere. Top games will still be subs based.

Of course quality is subjective. However, commercial success is not.

If you look at top ranking games on xfire (MMO or not), only WOW is P2P. Everything else is either F2P or B2P.

If you look at industry data, F2P players already outnumbered p2P by 6 to 1, and F2P games are making as much money in total. The trend is that F2P is further going to gain share.

Devs are going to where the money is.

 

Again, quality of a product like MMO...quality of a car for example can be set quite objectively.

MMO or not...I dont remember games other than MMOs being P2P, so we should be looking at MMOs on xfire.

Yes F2P outnumber P2P because there are many MMOs of which only few can justify subscription, but if they can, they use it...that is why WoW is P2P because it is as you say where the money is.

Why do you think recent MMOs started as P2P...they wanted to make as much profit as possible. Only then they switched to F2P because it is where the money is for games for which there isnt demand at 15 USD / month.

If there is sufficient demand for a game with subs, it will be subs, not F2P.

MMO's didn't start out as p2p, the first ones were f2p with a cs, years before UO.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1823

"I shall take your position into consideration"

3/21/13 2:50:31 PM#63
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666
 

Quality of a product like MMO is hardly measurable and its perception is subjective to a large extent.

You can look at recently released MMOs, most of them starts as P2P with a vision of maximized profit. When the market response shows they dont have the quality / ability to attract and maintain large playerbase, they go to F2P which is a less profitable business model generally speaking, but more profitable for their lower quality game.

I am convinced that subscription is not going anywhere. Top games will still be subs based.

Of course quality is subjective. However, commercial success is not.

If you look at top ranking games on xfire (MMO or not), only WOW is P2P. Everything else is either F2P or B2P.

If you look at industry data, F2P players already outnumbered p2P by 6 to 1, and F2P games are making as much money in total. The trend is that F2P is further going to gain share.

Devs are going to where the money is.

 

Again, quality of a product like MMO...quality of a car for example can be set quite objectively.

MMO or not...I dont remember games other than MMOs being P2P, so we should be looking at MMOs on xfire.

Yes F2P outnumber P2P because there are many MMOs of which only few can justify subscription, but if they can, they use it...that is why WoW is P2P because it is as you say where the money is.

Why do you think recent MMOs started as P2P...they wanted to make as much profit as possible. Only then they switched to F2P because it is where the money is for games for which there isnt demand at 15 USD / month.

If there is sufficient demand for a game with subs, it will be subs, not F2P.

MMO's didn't start out as p2p, the first ones were f2p with a cs, years before UO.

Recent MMOs

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4844

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/21/13 2:52:19 PM#64
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666
 

Quality of a product like MMO is hardly measurable and its perception is subjective to a large extent.

You can look at recently released MMOs, most of them starts as P2P with a vision of maximized profit. When the market response shows they dont have the quality / ability to attract and maintain large playerbase, they go to F2P which is a less profitable business model generally speaking, but more profitable for their lower quality game.

I am convinced that subscription is not going anywhere. Top games will still be subs based.

Of course quality is subjective. However, commercial success is not.

If you look at top ranking games on xfire (MMO or not), only WOW is P2P. Everything else is either F2P or B2P.

If you look at industry data, F2P players already outnumbered p2P by 6 to 1, and F2P games are making as much money in total. The trend is that F2P is further going to gain share.

Devs are going to where the money is.

 

Again, quality of a product like MMO...quality of a car for example can be set quite objectively.

MMO or not...I dont remember games other than MMOs being P2P, so we should be looking at MMOs on xfire.

Yes F2P outnumber P2P because there are many MMOs of which only few can justify subscription, but if they can, they use it...that is why WoW is P2P because it is as you say where the money is.

Why do you think recent MMOs started as P2P...they wanted to make as much profit as possible. Only then they switched to F2P because it is where the money is for games for which there isnt demand at 15 USD / month.

If there is sufficient demand for a game with subs, it will be subs, not F2P.

MMO's didn't start out as p2p, the first ones were f2p with a cs, years before UO.

Recent MMOs

ah, sorry missed that word.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

3/21/13 4:35:07 PM#65
Originally posted by coretex666

If there is sufficient demand for a game with subs, it will be subs, not F2P.

Of course. And the demand of sub is dwindling. That is why the whole marketing is trending F2P. Fewer and fewer will pay a sub, no matter how good the game is, when there are so many free alternatives.

  Sephiroso

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

3/21/13 4:37:28 PM#66
Originally posted by SlickShoes
Yep this is blizzards last chance to make any money since everything they have released since Warcraft 3 has failed so hard.......

im not sure if this is a joke or not. i mean if this is trollbait then im hooked but...do you not realize how much money blizzard makes?


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

3/21/13 4:42:31 PM#67
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by SlickShoes
Yep this is blizzards last chance to make any money since everything they have released since Warcraft 3 has failed so hard.......

im not sure if this is a joke or not. i mean if this is trollbait then im hooked but...do you not realize how much money blizzard makes?

He is dreaming. Is there a game or expansion blizz made in the last few years that did not sell at least 3M copies?

D3 sold 12M. MOP sold what? 3-4M? If they fail, i am sure all other game companies want to fail the same way.

Heck .. even a virtual pony sold several million.

  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1823

"I shall take your position into consideration"

3/21/13 5:35:01 PM#68
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666

If there is sufficient demand for a game with subs, it will be subs, not F2P.

Of course. And the demand of sub is dwindling. That is why the whole marketing is trending F2P. Fewer and fewer will pay a sub, no matter how good the game is, when there are so many free alternatives.

This is the point where I would disagree with you.

If some company releases a new MMORPG which is a real blast, huge number of people will happily pay the subscription, in my opinion.

I, personally, would pay 50 usd / month for an amazing MMO. Based on various threads related to this topic created on this forum, I can say that I am not the only one.

We both have our own opinion. It is ok to disagree, so I will not try to convince you that I am right.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

3/21/13 5:42:38 PM#69
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666
 

Quality of a product like MMO is hardly measurable and its perception is subjective to a large extent.

You can look at recently released MMOs, most of them starts as P2P with a vision of maximized profit. When the market response shows they dont have the quality / ability to attract and maintain large playerbase, they go to F2P which is a less profitable business model generally speaking, but more profitable for their lower quality game.

I am convinced that subscription is not going anywhere. Top games will still be subs based.

Of course quality is subjective. However, commercial success is not.

If you look at top ranking games on xfire (MMO or not), only WOW is P2P. Everything else is either F2P or B2P.

If you look at industry data, F2P players already outnumbered p2P by 6 to 1, and F2P games are making as much money in total. The trend is that F2P is further going to gain share.

Devs are going to where the money is.

 

And its pretty clear that the money is in P2P until you fall below a certain sub threshold.

Of the three most popular MMOs in the west, 2 are sub (WoW and EvE).  The other is GW2 of course.  And while there is no question that GW2 has more players as b2p the question is would it make more money as p2p?  My guess is that GW2 has more players than EvE, twice as many players as EvE in fact.  i bet you EvE brings in bigger revenue.

 

And xfire really isnt worth much in comparing game populations.  Its only real use is population trends within a game.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

3/21/13 5:49:38 PM#70


Originally posted by Boardwalker
If Blizzard's games are "failing" so badly with millions of people playing them, I'd hate to think how awful non-Blizzard games are faring.

pretty much this. they have fallen from my graces .. for the moment, but this blizzard is dead stuff is priceless.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1559

3/21/13 5:56:29 PM#71
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666

If there is sufficient demand for a game with subs, it will be subs, not F2P.

Of course. And the demand of sub is dwindling. That is why the whole marketing is trending F2P. Fewer and fewer will pay a sub, no matter how good the game is, when there are so many free alternatives.

Its only trending F2P for crappy themeparks with no content..

Well made MMOs are thriving with subs (WoW, EVE, Rift)

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