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EverQuest Next Forum » General Discussion » [Survey] How do you feel about the artistic direction for Everquest Next?

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52 posts found
  Mr.Kujo

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 392

“Discussion is impossible with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it.”

9/05/13 7:48:36 AM#41
Originally posted by georgatos7
Originally posted by Karteli

The general artwork that I've seen is good.  It uses Voxels, which can't make ultra realistic graphics because of the destructibility aspect...

 

Oh the voxels can't create realistic graphics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aTsZGAK8Lo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btc7gFIjJco

It's the same engine that is going to handle voxel creation and editing in EQN.

Where do you guys get your info from?

 

Wow I wasn't to keen of the current disney style, but now I'm glad since the "realistic" stylized approach you showed is so bad. Everything looks like a big pile of clay with tileable textures on it. This is a nature of voxel technology. There is no structure to it, everything has the same form bottom to top. I guess you can see how big step back in terms of realism needs to be taken in order to implement voxel technology. If it weren't for the tons of procedural grass, I would think those clips are from before 2005.. The lighting and texture is so bad... maybe textures have good resolution, but that won't help the artificial look.

It is much safer to go with a style that can be drawn like a painting. Not like it matters, since a company decides which group of people they are targeting.

  georgatos7

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 54

9/05/13 8:18:04 AM#42
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo

...Everything looks like a big pile of clay with tileable textures on it. This is a nature of voxel technology. There is no structure to it, everything has the same form bottom to top...

 

This is the nature of voxels?

I don't think you understand. There is nothing you can do with polygons that can't be done with voxels. There is no predifined nature of voxels. It's just what you are capable of doing as an artist.

And guess what. It's the same Voxel engine that you saw at SOE Live so if this has no structure and everything looks like clay the based on your logic EQN should have the same fate.

 

Originally posted by Mr.Kujo

...The lighting and texture is so bad...

 

You don't seriously judge the lighting and the textures of a Voxel engine that can be embedded on other rendering engines and be handled by real artists, do you?

 

Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
...Not like it matters, since a company decides which group of people they are targeting.

 

We agree on that.

It doesn't matter if voxels are more than capable of doing awesome realistic scenes. If the company decides they are going to target kids then there is no way to change that.

But i just can't hear that this style was forced upon them because of voxels and destructibility. This is fanboyism to the level of stupidity or just plain ignorance.

 

Anyway, about the poll what i see is that in some cases a third or up to more than half of the ones who voted are just meh or negative about the art direction. Alienating all those ppl so early isn't something you should be proud of.

 

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

9/05/13 6:39:27 PM#43

Thank you for making this survey, it is really interesting.

I've made a little list about peoples top dislikes.

 

percentage of people who voted overly negative about the:

  • overall feel              52%
  • dark elf:                   46%
  • general art style:   39%
  • kerra:                       34%
  • Firiona Vie:              34%
  • armour:                    34%
  • female dwarf:          27%
  • weapons:                 26%
  • ogre:                         21%
  • male dwarf:             15%
  • elves:                        11%
  • human wizard:          9%
  • world graphics:         3%

It seems many people really don't the dark elf, even more then the kerra. I find that surprising.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

9/05/13 6:50:26 PM#44
Originally posted by georgatos7
 

Anyway, about the poll what i see is that in some cases a third or up to more than half of the ones who voted are just meh or negative about the art direction. Alienating all those ppl so early isn't something you should be proud of.

 

It is pretty safe to say, that you are going to "alienate" a third of the people in any online poll no matter what you do

If you offer instances, you will anger the sandbox crowd

if you don't offer instances, you anger the raiders.

 

Make the graphics too Asian, and you get people calling them hollow souled toons and not in the style of EQ1

Make them stylized, you get people saying it is aimed at kids and not in the style of EQ2.

 

The majority of people like the art direction.

  Marvis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 8

9/05/13 6:51:08 PM#45
Originally posted by Sengi

Thank you for making this survey, it is really interesting.

I've made a little list about peoples top dislikes.

 

percentage of people who voted overly negative about the:

  • overall feel              52%
  • dark elf:                   46%
  • general art style:   39%
  • kerra:                       34%
  • Firiona Vie:              34%
  • armour:                    34%
  • female dwarf:          27%
  • weapons:                 26%
  • ogre:                         21%
  • male dwarf:             15%
  • elves:                        11%
  • human wizard:          9%
  • world graphics:         3%

It seems many people really don't the dark elf, even more then the kerra. I find that surprising.

 

For me, the interesting bit of the survey is that some elements really score well, so it's not like there are a lot of people who are categorically putting in a negative feedback. Hence, they need to work on everything that has less than 50% of the people voting for the best option (as this was achieved for several topics).

  Eeks

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/13
Posts: 72

9/05/13 7:11:02 PM#46
Originally posted by Sengi

Thank you for making this survey, it is really interesting.

I've made a little list about peoples top dislikes.

 

percentage of people who voted overly negative about the:

  • overall feel              52%
  • dark elf:                   46%
  • general art style:   39%
  • kerra:                       34%
  • Firiona Vie:              34%
  • armour:                    34%
  • female dwarf:          27%
  • weapons:                 26%
  • ogre:                         21%
  • male dwarf:             15%
  • elves:                        11%
  • human wizard:          9%
  • world graphics:         3%

It seems many people really don't the dark elf, even more then the kerra. I find that surprising.

To be fair, the overall feel question wasn't overly balanced in its options =p

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

9/05/13 7:17:56 PM#47
Originally posted by evilastro

Surprised at how many liked the art style to be honest, I guess that really does show that there is a vocal minority on here. ...

Really? I see something completely different in the results.

  • I think the style is too juvenile and/or cartoony.                                     20%
  • I think the art direction for EQ Next should be something different.      10%
  • I like some of the art that we've seen, but I dislike more of it.               6%
  • I feel that it looks too generic or similar to other games.                       3%

Altogether 39% of the people said they overly dislike the graphics. And 52% said they didn't like the overall feel of the graphics. That is a significant group.

895 people is not a small sample. This survey is definitively saying something.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

9/05/13 10:00:10 PM#48
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by evilastro

Surprised at how many liked the art style to be honest, I guess that really does show that there is a vocal minority on here. ...

Really? I see something completely different in the results.

  • I think the style is too juvenile and/or cartoony.                                     20%
  • I think the art direction for EQ Next should be something different.      10%
  • I like some of the art that we've seen, but I dislike more of it.               6%
  • I feel that it looks too generic or similar to other games.                       3%

Altogether 39% of the people said they overly dislike the graphics. And 52% said they didn't like the overall feel of the graphics. That is a significant group.

895 people is not a small sample. This survey is definitively saying something.

Oh come on, if this was a standard 1-5 results poll over 50 percent would have been in the positive camp for most of the questions asked.

 

When asked if the direction should be changed 62% either loved the current art or liked most of it, 

only 10% expressed a strong dislike of the human model we have seen.

and an overwhelming 72% liked the landscapes. You can't get 72% of most online polls to agree on anything these days. (88% if you include the second option of I think they look good)

The only one that trended negative was the Kerra question, all the others either break even or lean towards the positive....as for your quoted results posted above.

 

 

Yes, I think the art direction for EQ Next should be something different. 91      10%
I like some of the art that we've seen, but I dislike more of it. 54        6%
I dislike some of the art we've seen, but I like more of it. 209       23%
No, I love the current art direction. 358       39%
I feel that it looks too generic or similar to other games. 23         3%
I think the style is too juvenile and/or cartoony. 181       20%
 

Over 62% like the majority of what they have seen. I don't know how your coming to your 52% don't like the art.

 
  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

9/06/13 7:38:05 AM#49
Originally posted by STYNKFYST
Originally posted by killahh
Originally posted by georgatos7
Originally posted by Karteli

The general artwork that I've seen is good.  It uses Voxels, which can't make ultra realistic graphics because of the destructibility aspect...

 

Oh the voxels can't create realistic graphics?



 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aTsZGAK8Lo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btc7gFIjJco

 

It's the same engine that is going to handle voxel creation and editing in EQN.

Where do you guys get your info from?

dont you know?

eating hogies and wearing tin foil hats. real information? bah! thats for fools, /sarcasm

^ LOL!!

Yeah the Voxels can make incredible stuff. Not sure why anyone would even have an opinion otherwise if they knew it's beginnings and such. Voxel based graphics are used in such a wide array of visuals.

just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that it will work in the context of a mmo. There is probabally a massive advantage to use simplified cartoony blocks as opposed to a trillion blocks for 1 tree. All that stuff has to be tracked because its destructible.

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

9/06/13 6:53:35 PM#50
Originally posted by GrayKodiak

When asked if the direction should be changed 62% either loved the current art or liked most of it, 

only 10% expressed a strong dislike of the human model we have seen.

and an overwhelming 72% liked the landscapes. You can't get 72% of most online polls to agree on anything these days. (88% if you include the second option of I think they look good)

The only one that trended negative was the Kerra question, all the others either break even or lean towards the positive....as for your quoted results posted above.

Over 62% like the majority of what they have seen. I don't know how your coming to your 52% don't like the art.

 

The most unpopular character was actually the dark elf, even more then the kerra. Not many people seem to care about the human. I think I overestimated that. The reason for this might be that the art style suit the serious and sinister dark elf much less, while this human "Jaleena" character appears rather funny.

 

With the 52% I was referring to the last question "How do you feel about the overall emotional effect of the artistic direction?" This was the one with the greatest dissent. This is probably the most important question, because it is about the effect the art style has on the game. A majority people thinks the art style makes the game feel wrong, and most of them wan't it to be grittier or more realistic.

 

My point is that is that it does not really matter what group is the majority. 39% is a percentage that can't be ignored. If 2 out of 5 people say they are discontented with the art style SOE should do something about it.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

9/06/13 8:45:34 PM#51
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by GrayKodiak

When asked if the direction should be changed 62% either loved the current art or liked most of it, 

only 10% expressed a strong dislike of the human model we have seen.

and an overwhelming 72% liked the landscapes. You can't get 72% of most online polls to agree on anything these days. (88% if you include the second option of I think they look good)

The only one that trended negative was the Kerra question, all the others either break even or lean towards the positive....as for your quoted results posted above.

Over 62% like the majority of what they have seen. I don't know how your coming to your 52% don't like the art.

 

The most unpopular character was actually the dark elf, even more then the kerra. Not many people seem to care about the human. I think I overestimated that. The reason for this might be that the art style suit the serious and sinister dark elf much less, while this human "Jaleena" character appears rather funny.

 

With the 52% I was referring to the last question "How do you feel about the overall emotional effect of the artistic direction?" This was the one with the greatest dissent. This is probably the most important question, because it is about the effect the art style has on the game. A majority people thinks the art style makes the game feel wrong, and most of them wan't it to be grittier or more realistic.

 

My point is that is that it does not really matter what group is the majority. 39% is a percentage that can't be ignored. If 2 out of 5 people say they are discontented with the art style SOE should do something about it.

People in the MMO community, especially this forum, never agree on anything.

You could carry this same scenario over to the ESO forum, where you hear people complaining about the exact opposite thing...the over use of grey and browns and the overall dreary look...which according to this poll 22% would prefer EQ be more like.

I personally do not want instances in a sandbox, not one...I am willing to make exceptions for some amazing event or tutorial areas but other than that I think they are a hindrance on sandbox games not a boon. However, I know for a fact at least two out of five people would disagree with me, especially raiders. However if the game was heavily instanced then two out of five (or more) would bemoan another themepark MMO coming out.

 

Your argument assumes there is some magic solution that creates a 90% or 100% satisfaction rate and I just do not see that, and have not seen that, in the MMO community. In todays climate just topping 50% in your favor is a boon, I imagine less than 50% were happy with SWOTR's f2p model, or Age of Wushu's timed items, or TSW lack of end game content. Frankly people who put graphics above gameplay can go find some other graphic demo mmo to play (TERA is free to play right now). I for one am in the majority camp that likes the way the game looks and would rather have the wide range of innovative terrain and gameplay effects than another pretty empty game.

62% of the respondents like the majority of the graphics, and a small 20% think it is too cartoony.....whatever those people in the cartoony camp want to claim they can not claim majority. There are a couple of asian MMO's coming out that, perhaps, will satisfy them better...though I imagine those asian mmo's will be full of outlandish looking weapons and goofy animations that do not exactly scream realism either...guess there is always ESO.

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

9/07/13 8:23:51 AM#52
Originally posted by GrayKodiak

People in the MMO community, especially this forum, never agree on anything.

You could carry this same scenario over to the ESO forum, where you hear people complaining about the exact opposite thing...the over use of grey and browns and the overall dreary look...which according to this poll 22% would prefer EQ be more like.

I personally do not want instances in a sandbox, not one...I am willing to make exceptions for some amazing event or tutorial areas but other than that I think they are a hindrance on sandbox games not a boon. However, I know for a fact at least two out of five people would disagree with me, especially raiders. However if the game was heavily instanced then two out of five (or more) would bemoan another themepark MMO coming out.

 

Your argument assumes there is some magic solution that creates a 90% or 100% satisfaction rate and I just do not see that, and have not seen that, in the MMO community. In todays climate just topping 50% in your favor is a boon, I imagine less than 50% were happy with SWOTR's f2p model, or Age of Wushu's timed items, or TSW lack of end game content. Frankly people who put graphics above gameplay can go find some other graphic demo mmo to play (TERA is free to play right now). I for one am in the majority camp that likes the way the game looks and would rather have the wide range of innovative terrain and gameplay effects than another pretty empty game.

62% of the respondents like the majority of the graphics, and a small 20% think it is too cartoony.....whatever those people in the cartoony camp want to claim they can not claim majority. There are a couple of asian MMO's coming out that, perhaps, will satisfy them better...though I imagine those asian mmo's will be full of outlandish looking weapons and goofy animations that do not exactly scream realism either...guess there is always ESO.

 

I think you see this to pessimistic. People complain a lot, but there is always a reason behind it. As you see pretty much everyone likes the environment graphics. They look as good and in some point even better then every other stat of the art game.

Do you believe the 39% (about 350 people) who said they mostly didn't liked the art style just did it because they hate everything?

 

Only a fraction of the respondents came from this forum. The biggest part probably came from the Reddit forum and probably from other sources. The discussion there is no different by the way. I read some post that expressed a very drastic opinion about the art style over there.

 

I think the graphics discussion on the ESO forum is different. It is mostly only about the technical quality of the graphics. It was mostly triggered by a leaked beta video that showed work in process graphics that probably lacked most of the shaders. The main complain is that the graphics don't look as good as Skyrim. They have a bit less polygons for technical reasons.

 

I think it is pretty certain, that EQN will have only have few instances. I'm not sure if they even confirmed that there will be raid instances. The point is that the instances will probably all be optional. You can just walk past them.

But you can't avoid the art style. You will have to look at these kerra for the entire game unless you block everyone who plays one. ;)

 

I don't think there would be any complaints if SOE would announce tomorrow that they will switch a different set of character models. (even though I don't think they will do that) I believe that almost everyone who is defending the art style just wants to defend the game as a whole, and simply doesn't care that much what art style it has. And some still misunderstand the whole debate, thinking it was about the poly count. I don't think there are many people who explicitly want a whimsical and cartoony art style. Remember, cartoony is not that same thing as stylized.

 

Of course gameplay is more important then graphics, but that does not mean that graphics are not also important. The art style has not much to do with the graphics. If anything this art damages the game by making new players expect a style of gameplay that is targeted towards kids.

 

The problem of the first question is that it makes no difference between the environment graphics and the characters. 61% have at least some complaints about the art style. I would believe that many of the 29% who said they likes some aspects of the graphics but disliked other aspects, wanted to say that the environment looks great but the characters not so much.

The last question is actually better, because it not only asks whether people like the art style or not, but also asks for the reasons. Here 41% say that they want the art style to be grittier or more realistic.  

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