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EverQuest Next Forum » General Discussion » Instances are confirmed in EQnext...

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113 posts found
  Lichmorge

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/13
Posts: 8

8/24/13 11:36:11 PM#41

Or maybe the rest of the world isn't on the same story path as you are.  So your mentor someone speak to all 500 noobs on the day of the launch, at the same time?  As if he can speak at the speed of light, to each person, but 500 times over? 

 

No, THAT would break immersion.  Instead, just instance it.  Or at least phase it.  That way, YOUR mentor is talking to YOU about how YOU can further YOUR adventure.

 

As far as dungeons go... Lets say there is a dungeon full of goblins.  An NPC tells people about a secret treasure in the goblins' dungeon.  The VERY first group gets the treasure... what are the other groups supposed to do now?  No more secret treasure, no more goblins, and no more reason to even head into that dungeon.  If you have respawns, then it's still not as immersive as instancing because there would be goblins popping out of thin air all the damn time.

 

If a dungeon was truly persistent and ever changing, every dungeon would be an empty black hole in the wall.  If you instance/phase them, then the the dungeon can have a perpetual (even changing) purpose.

 

 

  ropenice

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 594

8/24/13 11:46:32 PM#42
Originally posted by Jagsman32
Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by Jagsman32

 

 Wow could you be more wrong? What the hell do you think instances are? They are repetative content and the exact same thing as "monsters standing around". You enter the instance, those monsters appear at the exact same time, same place as every other time you enter the instance with may one or two differences (maybe). You leave the instance, and go back in, same shit. You don't even have to interact with any person, just your NPC mobs that you repetatively kill after running the same instances over and over. The game should be open world with dynamic spawns, nothing less.

The only thing that should be instanced is the tutorial, and even that I don't think should be instanced.

Instances limit the possibility of games because it segragates the community away from each other and detracts from continuity. Instances have no place in this game, and should not be included.

Aside from the sandbox/thempark or open world over instance content (ie I'm not valuing one over the other), the one thing that instances do better than open world is in crafting a specific experience in story-telling, mood and single-group content/immersion (having a contained quest without seeing 50 toons dancing next to you in a dungeon). DDO (I know it has plenty of flaws) has great quests/dungeon runs that couldn't be done as well in an open worl with others running around it trying to do the same things you are. Most of the low level quests are lame but higher up they do a great job with interesting and unique content (unique in it's different than the other quests with story and challenges. One example is the rogue class. On elite level, one trap can wipe the group without rogue finding/disarming traps. In most games a rogue is just mostly dps with some stealth that is only used in combat. The instance challenges makes the class more important and fun, as well as dps combat.

But as to EQN, a good blend of open world and instances could be better than just one or the other, if both are given the proper attention and thought. I don't even know what a sandbox really is, as no one can give a definition that is agreed upon.

 EQ2 started out with an open world with instanced dungeons. WoW was an open world with instanced dungeons. EQN should not be an open world with instanced dungeons. It should just be open world, period. I would rather EQN resemble Minecraft multiplayer or Cubeworld multiplayer than an any MMO iteration similar to NW, DDO, WoW, or EQ2.

You claim that instances are immsersive, that is extremely subjective. Personally, I find that open world is more immersive. It gives everything continuity. How is disappearing into your own time-and-space bubble dimension immersive?

 I too find open world immersive, but sometimes a finely crafted quest with a small party is also immersive. If you explore deep into the wilderness and find an unknown ruin of an evil temple and go in to explore and there is 50 people running around, dancing, talking about politics, movies, bad boob jokes, etc-to me, that breaks immersion. Yes in a city, those things feel right as 1000's of people live in cities, but just as I fight my way through a dungeon to face of with a lich, i don't want to see 6 other people come running out of that room and I have to wait for it too respawn-that breaks immersion, so i believe they both have their place.

Not saying EQN needs instancing, as i like their plans for mobs that migrate (keeping things changing) and DE's that change the world, factions, etc. but a carefully crafted quest without other random people interrupting it, can also be immersive, ie setting a mood, traps, secret discoveries, and other challenges that i never see in open world.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

8/24/13 11:52:01 PM#43
Originally posted by Lichmorge

Or maybe the rest of the world isn't on the same story path as you are.  So your mentor someone speak to all 500 noobs on the day of the launch, at the same time?  As if he can speak at the speed of light, to each person, but 500 times over? 

 

No, THAT would break immersion.  Instead, just instance it.  Or at least phase it.  That way, YOUR mentor is talking to YOU about how YOU can further YOUR adventure.

 

As far as dungeons go... Lets say there is a dungeon full of goblins.  An NPC tells people about a secret treasure in the goblins' dungeon.  The VERY first group gets the treasure... what are the other groups supposed to do now?  No more secret treasure, no more goblins, and no more reason to even head into that dungeon.  If you have respawns, then it's still not as immersive as instancing because there would be goblins popping out of thin air all the damn time.

 

If a dungeon was truly persistent and ever changing, every dungeon would be an empty black hole in the wall.  If you instance/phase them, then the the dungeon can have a perpetual (even changing) purpose.

 

 

They have already said, in many different ways, this game isn't going to have "a dungeon full of goblins" with an npc with a quest telling people to go to said dungeon that will be standing there on day 160 doing the same thing it was doing on day 1, if you go to said dungeon and kill and the goblins they are dead / move away. They don't respawn until someone drives them out of wherever they move to, and even then who knows how many cycles it could take to get them back to the dungeon you found them in. The next time a group goes in that dungeon it may be different and it may have trolls or a dragon instead of the goblins you slew in it 100 days ago...that is the whole damn idea they keep preaching in almost every interview.

HOW they plan to do this on a massive scale I do not know, it would require a big big world, which is another reason I hope this game has a LARGE landmass.

  User Deleted
8/24/13 11:56:26 PM#44
After some thought I am actually glad that there are instances in EQN. I mean, there are just SOME people I simply don't want to be locked into a room with even if it's virtual and such conscientious objectors to the denial of my beatific presence will simply HAVE to settle for paying for my autograph second hand.
  dwarfkinglords

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 75

8/25/13 12:20:11 AM#45
Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by Jagsman32

 

 Wow could you be more wrong? What the hell do you think instances are? They are repetative content and the exact same thing as "monsters standing around". You enter the instance, those monsters appear at the exact same time, same place as every other time you enter the instance with may one or two differences (maybe). You leave the instance, and go back in, same shit. You don't even have to interact with any person, just your NPC mobs that you repetatively kill after running the same instances over and over. The game should be open world with dynamic spawns, nothing less.

The only thing that should be instanced is the tutorial, and even that I don't think should be instanced.

Instances limit the possibility of games because it segragates the community away from each other and detracts from continuity. Instances have no place in this game, and should not be included.

Aside from the sandbox/thempark or open world over instance content (ie I'm not valuing one over the other), the one thing that instances do better than open world is in crafting a specific experience in story-telling, mood and single-group content/immersion (having a contained quest without seeing 50 toons dancing next to you in a dungeon). DDO (I know it has plenty of flaws) has great quests/dungeon runs that couldn't be done as well in an open worl with others running around it trying to do the same things you are. Most of the low level quests are lame but higher up they do a great job with interesting and unique content (unique in it's different than the other quests with story and challenges. One example is the rogue class. On elite level, one trap can wipe the group without rogue finding/disarming traps. In most games a rogue is just mostly dps with some stealth that is only used in combat. The instance challenges makes the class more important and fun, as well as dps combat.

But as to EQN, a good blend of open world and instances could be better than just one or the other, if both are given the proper attention and thought. I don't even know what a sandbox really is, as no one can give a definition that is agreed upon.

agreed! i dont think this guy gets it.. dungeons that are tweakable and perfect for LFG content should be instance.. different difficulty settings etc...

 

you just can't do that in openword.. you can't have set paths everywhere in the open world.. and whats with this new obsession with immersion, its a game get over it, 

 

and stop confusing instance with lobbys, the way FF:ARR does it is perfect and fun as hell.. you can't do that in the open world

  Jagsman32

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 112

8/25/13 12:56:42 AM#46
Originally posted by dwarfkinglords
Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by Jagsman32

 

 Wow could you be more wrong? What the hell do you think instances are? They are repetative content and the exact same thing as "monsters standing around". You enter the instance, those monsters appear at the exact same time, same place as every other time you enter the instance with may one or two differences (maybe). You leave the instance, and go back in, same shit. You don't even have to interact with any person, just your NPC mobs that you repetatively kill after running the same instances over and over. The game should be open world with dynamic spawns, nothing less.

The only thing that should be instanced is the tutorial, and even that I don't think should be instanced.

Instances limit the possibility of games because it segragates the community away from each other and detracts from continuity. Instances have no place in this game, and should not be included.

Aside from the sandbox/thempark or open world over instance content (ie I'm not valuing one over the other), the one thing that instances do better than open world is in crafting a specific experience in story-telling, mood and single-group content/immersion (having a contained quest without seeing 50 toons dancing next to you in a dungeon). DDO (I know it has plenty of flaws) has great quests/dungeon runs that couldn't be done as well in an open worl with others running around it trying to do the same things you are. Most of the low level quests are lame but higher up they do a great job with interesting and unique content (unique in it's different than the other quests with story and challenges. One example is the rogue class. On elite level, one trap can wipe the group without rogue finding/disarming traps. In most games a rogue is just mostly dps with some stealth that is only used in combat. The instance challenges makes the class more important and fun, as well as dps combat.

But as to EQN, a good blend of open world and instances could be better than just one or the other, if both are given the proper attention and thought. I don't even know what a sandbox really is, as no one can give a definition that is agreed upon.

agreed! i dont think this guy gets it.. dungeons that are tweakable and perfect for LFG content should be instance.. different difficulty settings etc...

 

you just can't do that in openword.. you can't have set paths everywhere in the open world.. and whats with this new obsession with immersion, its a game get over it, 

 

and stop confusing instance with lobbys, the way FF:ARR does it is perfect and fun as hell.. you can't do that in the open world

 

You are clearly delusional if you believe people here want set paths. The reason people got excited about EQN is because they promised NO set paths. If x group wants to go y or z direction, they have a choice. They don't have to follow the rails. If a dungeon is full and camped, well they can go explore off the beaten path and find a new proceduraly generated unique open world dungeon. There are hundreds of MMOs designed for what you are looking for. Please go play them and stay as far away from EQN as possible. Your ilk ruined EQ, SWG, UO, and many more open world, non-instanced games. Please stay away and don't ruin what could potentially be a decent open world MMO.
  Apraxis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1518

8/25/13 6:16:00 AM#47
Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by Jagsman32
Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by Jagsman32

 

 Wow could you be more wrong? What the hell do you think instances are? They are repetative content and the exact same thing as "monsters standing around". You enter the instance, those monsters appear at the exact same time, same place as every other time you enter the instance with may one or two differences (maybe). You leave the instance, and go back in, same shit. You don't even have to interact with any person, just your NPC mobs that you repetatively kill after running the same instances over and over. The game should be open world with dynamic spawns, nothing less.

The only thing that should be instanced is the tutorial, and even that I don't think should be instanced.

Instances limit the possibility of games because it segragates the community away from each other and detracts from continuity. Instances have no place in this game, and should not be included.

Aside from the sandbox/thempark or open world over instance content (ie I'm not valuing one over the other), the one thing that instances do better than open world is in crafting a specific experience in story-telling, mood and single-group content/immersion (having a contained quest without seeing 50 toons dancing next to you in a dungeon). DDO (I know it has plenty of flaws) has great quests/dungeon runs that couldn't be done as well in an open worl with others running around it trying to do the same things you are. Most of the low level quests are lame but higher up they do a great job with interesting and unique content (unique in it's different than the other quests with story and challenges. One example is the rogue class. On elite level, one trap can wipe the group without rogue finding/disarming traps. In most games a rogue is just mostly dps with some stealth that is only used in combat. The instance challenges makes the class more important and fun, as well as dps combat.

But as to EQN, a good blend of open world and instances could be better than just one or the other, if both are given the proper attention and thought. I don't even know what a sandbox really is, as no one can give a definition that is agreed upon.

 EQ2 started out with an open world with instanced dungeons. WoW was an open world with instanced dungeons. EQN should not be an open world with instanced dungeons. It should just be open world, period. I would rather EQN resemble Minecraft multiplayer or Cubeworld multiplayer than an any MMO iteration similar to NW, DDO, WoW, or EQ2.

You claim that instances are immsersive, that is extremely subjective. Personally, I find that open world is more immersive. It gives everything continuity. How is disappearing into your own time-and-space bubble dimension immersive?

 I too find open world immersive, but sometimes a finely crafted quest with a small party is also immersive. If you explore deep into the wilderness and find an unknown ruin of an evil temple and go in to explore and there is 50 people running around, dancing, talking about politics, movies, bad boob jokes, etc-to me, that breaks immersion. Yes in a city, those things feel right as 1000's of people live in cities, but just as I fight my way through a dungeon to face of with a lich, i don't want to see 6 other people come running out of that room and I have to wait for it too respawn-that breaks immersion, so i believe they both have their place.

Not saying EQN needs instancing, as i like their plans for mobs that migrate (keeping things changing) and DE's that change the world, factions, etc. but a carefully crafted quest without other random people interrupting it, can also be immersive, ie setting a mood, traps, secret discoveries, and other challenges that i never see in open world.

I agree with you somewhat.. but is the perfect solution to this problem really instancing?

The problem is much more, that especially in nowadays mmo every inch of the world is very densely populated, with hundreds of mobs standing around everywhere and of course player. And one reason for that is in most games the themepark character of most games, and the gated content.. you need for every level range enough areas that can be experienced.

But what would be in a game, without that huge vertical progression, with a world where every area would be available for all players.. could it then be possible to have also sparsely populated areas, or even dungeons outside in no-man's land, where you don't run into 50 people running around, dancing,, talking  about policitcs and all the other stuff. Where you as a group travel out into no-man's land and actually are alone and actually detect a hidden entrance to an open world dungeon (with terrain destruction as example), and get the experience, too? In my opinion, this would be a even better experience as a instanced dungeon everyone makes a dozend time every day.. and where the entrance is like a waiting line, or a entrance to a roller coaster.

Will EQN be able to accomplish something like that? Most probably not. But i think that should be the target for a open world sandbox game, for a virtual world.. we need once again a huge world where dense ans spasely populated area take turns, where you really can explore out into no-man's land and find new things..

But that can only be accomplished, if all the world is available for everyone(no gated content), where the world change over time, where not every place looks the same for days and years. But yeap.. this is more or less just a dream, and i don't expect to see it fullfilled anytime in the near future.

So instancing is in most cases not the best solution, it is just in a lot of cases the simpliest and easiest solution.

Edit/PS: For such a virtual world, you need procedural generated landmass, because it would be really hard to generate such a huge world, such a dynamic world handcrafted, and you will need emergent AIs with automatic wandering and migrating mobs, and mob camps and mob cities, that different places can emerge and can dissapear. And you need a destructable world, that hidden places are actually hidden, and get only detected either by coincidence or a outside event like a earthquake.

Theoretically with EQN we may very well have the first time tools to create such possibilities.. also a really huge seamless world build out of voxels, fully destructable may be a little bit too much for todays technic and computers.

  Rydeson

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3922

8/25/13 7:17:55 AM#48

Two things the above post made me think of..

1) I too am not a fan of having 200 mobs standing around picking their noses on every acre of land..  In my opinion I want to see more random roaming mobs, where tracking might be desired..  I always thought Rift was insane with the mob density.. I would like to see more open spaces, and less mobs..

2) I'm curious if people think they can just go to Landmark, design whatever they want, and just plop it down in the world.. Cause that won't be the case.. Landmark is a game to toy around with.. With EQN "emergent" AI, it makes no sense to have mobs move to strategic areas on their own, when players are pooping buildings and ruins all over the landside..  I suspect that very very very very FEW things players design in Landmark will actually make it in the game..  And those items that do make it will be placed BY SOE for their intended use.. 

 

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

8/25/13 7:24:29 AM#49
Originally posted by Rydeson

Two things the above post made me think of..

1) I too am not a fan of having 200 mobs standing around picking their noses on every acre of land..  In my opinion I want to see more random roaming mobs, where tracking might be desired..  I always thought Rift was insane with the mob density.. I would like to see more open spaces, and less mobs..

2) I'm curious if people think they can just go to Landmark, design whatever they want, and just plop it down in the world.. Cause that won't be the case.. Landmark is a game to toy around with.. With EQN "emergent" AI, it makes no sense to have mobs move to strategic areas on their own, when players are pooping buildings and ruins all over the landside..  I suspect that very very very very FEW things players design in Landmark will actually make it in the game..  And those items that do make it will be placed BY SOE for their intended use.. 

 

The lead designer has spoken of land grants in next given as some kind of quest reward, I am not of the mindset they will have an open world plop anywhere build anywhere mechanic in Next but they seem to be going for a build out in the open mechanic.

  JaggaSpikes

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 419

8/25/13 7:31:07 AM#50
Originally posted by krage

Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games

Eve has instancing

Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox? 

...

 

only instancing in EVE is inside of stations where not much happens anyway.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11863

8/25/13 7:32:55 AM#51

need more details

 

the interview said EQN will be using instances for storytelling

beyond thatt,   who knows?

  Rydeson

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3922

8/25/13 7:35:48 AM#52
Originally posted by GrayKodiak
Originally posted by Rydeson

Two things the above post made me think of..

1) I too am not a fan of having 200 mobs standing around picking their noses on every acre of land..  In my opinion I want to see more random roaming mobs, where tracking might be desired..  I always thought Rift was insane with the mob density.. I would like to see more open spaces, and less mobs..

2) I'm curious if people think they can just go to Landmark, design whatever they want, and just plop it down in the world.. Cause that won't be the case.. Landmark is a game to toy around with.. With EQN "emergent" AI, it makes no sense to have mobs move to strategic areas on their own, when players are pooping buildings and ruins all over the landside..  I suspect that very very very very FEW things players design in Landmark will actually make it in the game..  And those items that do make it will be placed BY SOE for their intended use.. 

 

The lead designer has spoken of land grants in next given as some kind of quest reward, I am not of the mindset they will have an open world plop anywhere build anywhere mechanic in Next but they seem to be going for a build out in the open mechanic.

And we'll see how that pans out..  For a FREE to Play game to allow open world building is opening a Pandora's box.. It could get ugly..  Could you imagine SWG if they allowed F2P accounts and building.. OMG.. The landside would of been peppered with harvesters, factories and homes.. LOL   The mobs would of had to relocate to a new planet.. LOL

  Rydeson

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3922

8/25/13 7:37:11 AM#53
Originally posted by Nadia

need more details

 

the interview said EQN will be using instances for storytelling

beyond thatt,   who knows?

True.. and I hope that is very limited.. I hope it's not like GW2, or SWTOR.. but we'll see

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1106

8/25/13 7:41:03 AM#54
Originally posted by joe2721
instances were mentioned from the get go with the focus on we want to used them as a little as possible

 I hope instances are kept to a mimimum, would prefer the tutoiral the only instance personaly along with possible player housing depending on how they do it.

  kellian1

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 233

8/25/13 8:58:17 AM#55

Basically what I'm hearing is this:

 

This game is not everything I ever wanted in my perfect MMO game (A game that has never and will never exist) therefore it will fail and be the worst game ever and anybody who says different doesn't know MMO's, doesn't play "real" games and has probably started a petition for panda paladins in wow!

 

Yeah that about sums it up.

 

In all seriousness so it has instancing...WHO CARES! If instancing is really a deal breaker for you, perhaps MMO's in general aren't for you.

  Neanderthal

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 1642

8/25/13 9:03:42 AM#56
Originally posted by dwarfkinglords

 

you just can't do that in openword.. you can't have set paths everywhere in the open world.. and whats with this new obsession with immersion, its a game get over it, 

 

 

Wait....what?  New obsession with immersion?  Have you been hiding under a rock for the past 14 years?  People have been talking about immersion since I first started reading posts about MMORPGs.

And what's this about "set paths"?  Do we want set paths?  Ok...um, so now we're supposed to want games to funnel us down narrow corridors and not allow us to stray off the set path? 

All hail the invisible walls!  Glory and praise to connect the dots gameplay!

 

Geez, if that's how you defend the game I'd hate to see you bashing it. 

 

To address the use of instances in general; I can't say that they should never be used.  They have their place but should be used as little as possible.  It should be possible in a persistent world to be going through a dungeon and just happen to bump into some other player who is trying to go through the same dungeon.   He's having trouble with a rough fight so you jump in to help.  Then the two of you decide to group up.  After that maybe you become great friends.  Or maybe he acts like an ass and does something incredibly stupid which gets you both killed and you end up never wanting to be around him again.

But either way at least you interacted with another human being.  The more instances are used the less interaction you have with other people.  And yeah, there could be a dungeon finder function in the game but if that's what it comes down to they really might as well just make a lobby game and be done with it.

  Antarious

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/05
Posts: 2811

8/25/13 9:17:17 AM#57

Its just another thread from someone trying to crap on a game...  There is this premise that there is a "reason" for it... yet its not really a reason just an excuse.

 

Instances obviously have no effect on whether a game was a "sand box" or not.   As the only definition of sand box is creating things with your imagination (not zoneless/instanceless worlds...) oddly enough.   Oh and that of course means no PvP required another one of those "excuses" often used.

 

Plus there is this logical thing... 

 

1) If you have any kind of event where a party is supposed to go somewhere "dangerous" ... going there and finding 1000 other players and "no danger" breaks the immersion (which is why instances should be used for some things...)

 

2) If you really want to support player and/or guild housing then you are likely going to have to instance it... because unlike the days of UO... most people don't really enjoy having no place for their home.   Plus it negates that issue of having huge areas of the countryside filled with houses or housing zones like DAoC had.. what a pita those were to find the thing you were trying to buy to avoid broker fees.

 

*edit*

 

I just want to make clear that I am not saying EQN won't um I guess the word is suck...  However, I grow tired of the amount of threads with no real logical point or even thought behind them.   Now if you wanted to make a thread about the importance of the AI SOE keeps talking about.. and how if they fail with it.. then the games core design will be flawed... I'd be right with you on that thought process.

Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  Karble

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/09
Posts: 743

I play therefor I am

8/25/13 10:11:36 AM#58
Originally posted by Vutar

Pixel Planet interview at about the 3:42ish mark.

http://www.guildm8s.com/

 

So at what point can we go ahead and give up this notion of sandbox?

I would like to see them use instancing in EQ Next.

There are a few things a game benefits from with Instancing.

#1---Newb areas are a place where people first pop in and many will have no clue how do do much. If you instance a newb area, it can be tailored specifically to give totally new people a really nice,full tutorial on many of the systems and how they work without the fear of getting slaughtered by a huge invasion or lava or some other thing as they might in a non-tutorial sandbox.

#2---People's pc's can only handle a certain amount of action on screen at any given time. The more players you have in one spot, the more an older pc will start showing low frames. Once the game gets to a certain number, about half or more players will have such slow frames per second that they will not be able to move correctly or see 80% of the greatness that the game has and then they will want to quit since they would have to go buy a new rig to get faster performance just to see over 250+ people onscreen or whatever the amount is that starts making their current rig choke. Who knows...maybe with Voxels this will be far less an issue. Never played a voxel game before.

 

#3---If there is some form of mass transit in the game, it makes sense to have some of it instanced since you can pull off some crafty things that would change mass transit quite a bit. Things like a sky jacking with sky pirates, or perhaps an earth elemental stopping your underground train that must be killed before it smashes the train. Basically they can make new encounters all the time with this and make them deep enough to still be interesting and engaging.

#4---possibly upon collecting a class you are knocked into a dream arena where you must prove yourself against a shadow version of yourself in that class style. This would basically show that you have an understanding of the powers and limitations of that class by having to overcome it in combat. Once you have defeated your shadow self you are popped back to the regular world right where you were.

All these things are helpful to the player or small group of players without disrupting the overall game structure in general.

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1803

8/25/13 10:35:29 AM#59
Originally posted by sanshi44
Originally posted by joe2721
instances were mentioned from the get go with the focus on we want to used them as a little as possible

 I hope instances are kept to a mimimum, would prefer the tutoiral the only instance personaly along with possible player housing depending on how they do it.

I guess it depends on how you define instances but when you think about dynamic content it's easy to imagine where they will need to find ways to divide players in the world.  At least dynamic content that makes a difference in how the world looks.  Dynamic content like how Rift and GW2 does it really has no meaning as everything resets once it's complete.

If your questing away and come across that farmer for instance where you either help the farmer or help the orcs destroy the farm what happens when there are dozens of players each trying for a different outcome?  It might work out on a PVP server but people would just get in each others way on the PVE server and it would be impossible to completely save or destroy the farm because others would always be working to push the outcome the other way.

What I expect will happen is a next generation version of what EQ2 last couple expansions have done.  They have NPC's and set pieces that can move around on a per person basis depending on where you are personally in the quest.  Each person sees the world from a slightly different perspective so it's possible for one person to save the farm and another to destroy it at the same time and each see the world from the perspective of their toon.

What I see happening is that unique player view will be for small content meant to be soloed.  I expect there will also be larger community events that will not be personally instanced in the above manner and will require many people working together for either the positive or negative result.  

  Amaranthar

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2410

8/25/13 11:00:02 AM#60
Originally posted by Jagsman32
Originally posted by bingbongbros

From the clip it sounds like instances will be used for story (first person questline) that all mmo's now follow which I can't stand.  It doesn't make me feel heroic it is just a single player game mode.

 

Agreed. First person questlines make absolutely zero sense in an MMO, specifically if they involve instances. Are you supposed to pretend that you are the only one doing said quest? You are the only individual in the game that is the hero of the world? You are the only one who fought that dragon with an army of NPCs?

I am looking at you, GW2 and SWTOR. Unless the game is designed as a lobby based instance simulator, an MMO should be about continuity, community, socialization, and adventure. Dailies, instances, 100% soloability provides none of that (and also occupy 95% of MMOs to date).

I strongly agree.

Once upon a time....

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