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Pearl Abyss | Official Site
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Black Desert Forum » General Discussion » Housing system is REALLY bad, needs to change

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56 posts found
  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1275

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

7/08/13 1:20:45 PM#21

 

This has actually made me question why I was looking forward to the game.  It made me realize that I was only interested due to the housing system more so than anything else.  Therefore if there's no guaranteed way to maintain one's house (either through hard work or something else), then I will likely not be playing.

 

The possibility to troll someone by getting one's friends or guild to bid on something conjointly seems to destroy the core appeal that I had for the game as a whole.  Though as I mentioned previously, it seems that my interest was purely shallow to begin with and it's just a case of seeing how this turns out and what other systems are offered to curtail both my fears and assumptions.

 

If I know some people have it out for me then I won't likely even try to earn enough money to maintain my plot of land.  Waste of time and energy and it will just become a job.  If I keep my housing a secret, then there's no use as you won't be able to show it to your friends, and people will likely see what area you're in and follow you around to find out anyway.

 

I enjoyed the Ultima Online setting whereby you had to refresh your house frequently by just clicking on the doors when you logged in. 

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Kuro1n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 778

7/08/13 1:24:01 PM#22

We do not know the reasoning behind this yet, and don't judge before you try it out. There might be some point to this system although it sounds a bit odd.

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1275

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

7/08/13 2:14:30 PM#23
Originally posted by Kuro1n

We do not know the reasoning behind this yet, and don't judge before you try it out. There might be some point to this system although it sounds a bit odd.

 

It's kind've funny as I imagine those who have the houses will want some way to keep them, while those who don't will want some way to get them.  The idea of renting isn't exactly the most enticing thing to me as a whole.  Though if they implemented a way to ensure everyone has a chance regardless of when they decided to play... Well, okay.  It will just make a lot of people who intended to play it hardcore from the start and secure land to probably not even bother -- which may actually have some benefits as well as potentially losing that hardcore demographic that plays games religiously.

 

I'd imagine important plots of land such as mansions or castles or places in popular towns will have renting systems.  Hopefully some outlying places will have more permanent solutions akin to games like Ultima Online.  Maybe they'll even do as someone suggested and make the most valuable real estate be held by cash shop purchases or whatnot.  Who knows, though either way we're not entering territory that could put people off irregardless of their reasons.

 

Maybe they'll even release instanced neighborhood housing for those want something permanent while maintaining the overworld renting system for those who want something that isn't instanced and in a town.  The place where the elite of the server might congregate and show their status by winning bids.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1827

7/09/13 10:04:16 PM#24

This system was talked about in ArcheAge but it had nothing to do with housing. It was the system they planned to use for PvP targets.

You could bid on a PvP target claim on your own plot as an option to protect assets.

 

I don't see it working on general housing. One it tells me they aren't going to have enough lots to fill needs and that in itself is just a stupid idea. Creating competition for the sake of competition has a side effect. It creates a throttle on population. I don't think BP want to throttle their player base right out of the gate.

  Tierless

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2117

joie de vivre

7/09/13 10:07:39 PM#25

WTF that sounds terrible!

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  alyosha17

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/10
Posts: 163

7/10/13 1:20:51 AM#26
Originally posted by free2play

This system was talked about in ArcheAge but it had nothing to do with housing. It was the system they planned to use for PvP targets.

You could bid on a PvP target claim on your own plot as an option to protect assets.

 

I don't see it working on general housing. One it tells me they aren't going to have enough lots to fill needs and that in itself is just a stupid idea. Creating competition for the sake of competition has a side effect. It creates a throttle on population. I don't think BP want to throttle their player base right out of the gate.

Would you rather they make instanced housing then?  That's basically the only alternative for Pearl Abyss.

 

You act like they have infinite resources to make enough houses for every person who plays the game.  Did you ever think that they are an indie startup and can't do that?

 

Sometimes you have to compromise.  At launch they expect there to be enough houses for half the population.  As the game grows and they add more cities, they will inevitably add more houses to decrease the competition.

 

Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.  And if this is the alternative to instanced housing, then I would rather have this.

  muchavez

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/04
Posts: 208

 
OP  7/12/13 1:04:49 AM#27

Not sure why several people in this thread still think un-instanced housing has to be done black desert's way.

Xsyon

Wurm

Darkfall

archaege

the repopulation

 

all of the above games have un-instanced housing that use some form of upkeep rather than putting up your house for sale after x amount of time no matter what you do.

 

  alyosha17

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/10
Posts: 163

7/12/13 7:51:34 AM#28
Originally posted by muchavez

Not sure why several people in this thread still think un-instanced housing has to be done black desert's way.

Xsyon

Wurm

Darkfall

archaege

the repopulation

 

all of the above games have un-instanced housing that use some form of upkeep rather than putting up your house for sale after x amount of time no matter what you do.

 

And look at those games and the houses you can make in those games.  Do you think they compare to the housing in Black Desert from an artistic and visual perspective?

 

I don't think non-instanced housing has to be done Black Desert's way.   However, I also think that every other game doesn't come close to Black Desert in terms of the detail and types of houses players can own.

 

Im sure the developers realised early on that in order to maintain the artistic integrity of their gameworld, it would be very difficult for them to also allow players the ability to place and build their own houses in that same space.  In fact, the developers have mentioned explicitly that the reason they did not adopt a system like Archeage (where players can build houses) is because they didn't want to compromise on the environments or have players ruins them.

 

Name one game where you can achieve Black Desert's level of detail with a player-created housing system.  The reason you cannot name one is because no developer (and certainly not an indie startup like Pearl Abyss) is capable of doing it yet.  I think we will have to wait a while before we can expect this.

 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7481

7/12/13 7:54:20 AM#29

Only the richest will own a house. You got a problem with that? :)

  NightBandit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 792

Make friends not money, then wealth will follow.

7/12/13 8:09:33 AM#30

Not sure what all the fuss is about housing as I personally think it ruins MMO's as it makes people stay in one area when in fact it would be better having folk on the move all the time and gets people working together in groups if you on the move. Housing is just ego stuff showing off your assets. To me housing is just a gimmick and a waste of space and resources.

If you going to have housing the allow people to put houses where they want anywhere on the map and then defend the plot or loose it. What this will do is get people building houses together and protecting them as a team. The further adrift you build your house on the frontier the more chance you should have of loosing it for many reasons. That is how housing should be done and if you leave the game for any reason then your house should fall apart over a period of six months or so unless it gets raided and burnt to the ground. Or you could have NPC's take it over and use it as a base until they are killed or forced to move on.

Most other housing I've seen in games is just fluff and I feel developers are missing a trick here personally. When developers start to think outside the box then we can expect to see some decent innovation.

 

Bandit.

The Bandit

  Kuro1n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 778

7/12/13 5:38:36 PM#31
Originally posted by muchavez

Not sure why several people in this thread still think un-instanced housing has to be done black desert's way.

Xsyon

Wurm

Darkfall

archaege

the repopulation

 

all of the above games have un-instanced housing that use some form of upkeep rather than putting up your house for sale after x amount of time no matter what you do.

 

Um... in darkfall you cant have houses anywhere. They are some spots and when they are taken the prices for houses are skyhigh. GG much.

ArcheAge may have a funny system but it looks like shit with houses and decoration all over the place.

  nikobellic

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/13
Posts: 10

7/14/13 5:40:00 AM#32
isn't it funny how much discussion goes about a "housing system" that the devs said it will simply not exist.. 1,000 players will fight over a dozen houses - end of storry. the rest will be backpacking and sleeping in tents... hahaha
  alyosha17

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/10
Posts: 163

7/16/13 1:34:36 AM#33

"We plan to provide limited quantities of houses, approximately a few thousand houses.

 

Moreover, there will be inns and hotels in each village or city where users without houses can experience the function of normal houses to a certain degree."

  blutigfaust

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 99

7/24/13 12:25:55 PM#34

I've seen some pretty awesome homesteads in Xsyon, where they have terrain alteration as well. Houses are built from individual parts, like walls, roofs, floors etc. but you cant really decorate them, which is a bummer.

 

This Black Desert way sounds terrible to me, and yes I think housing is important. Guess this is just one more game I may pass on waiting for Divergence to let me in alpha, beta, or whatever. I'm starting to get more selective in the games I play, as not to encourage Developers to make trash to feed us, for their income.

The "bid" system implies the auction will have an ending time, which sounds like every other auction in every other game, where people will wait until the last min, then bid some extreme amount until it turns into the haves and have nots..guess we now know where the Devs plan to get their money from.

Current games playing: Archeage
Games being watched: Repopulation, and Divergence
Favorite played games: SWG, RomaVictor, and Xsyon

  azzamasin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2826

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/24/13 12:28:44 PM#35
While I do not like that version of housing, at least the game has housing.  IMO it is one of those little features that give so much longevity to an MMO that to refuse to design it is a travesty to the genre.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2826

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/24/13 12:30:36 PM#36
Originally posted by NightBandit

Not sure what all the fuss is about housing as I personally think it ruins MMO's as it makes people stay in one area when in fact it would be better having folk on the move all the time and gets people working together in groups if you on the move. Housing is just ego stuff showing off your assets. To me housing is just a gimmick and a waste of space and resources.

If you going to have housing the allow people to put houses where they want anywhere on the map and then defend the plot or loose it. What this will do is get people building houses together and protecting them as a team. The further adrift you build your house on the frontier the more chance you should have of loosing it for many reasons. That is how housing should be done and if you leave the game for any reason then your house should fall apart over a period of six months or so unless it gets raided and burnt to the ground. Or you could have NPC's take it over and use it as a base until they are killed or forced to move on.

Most other housing I've seen in games is just fluff and I feel developers are missing a trick here personally. When developers start to think outside the box then we can expect to see some decent innovation.

 

Bandit.

 Your opinion is wrong.  Point blank wrong.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 3037

7/24/13 4:17:03 PM#37
Now there's a mature post lol. It's his opinion. Doesn't mean it's wrong.

There Is Always Hope!

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7637

7/24/13 4:22:00 PM#38
Originally posted by muchavez

So apparently the way housing works is you bid for a housing spot.  That's not bad, however after 3 moths, even if you have been paying rent your house goes up for bid and if someone outbids you your house gets destroyed and all your assets get sent to your bank.  This seems really lame.  I want to have a long term house, not one that gets demolished every 3 months.  Almost every other mmo that has housing (archeage, darkfall, the repopulation, xsyon, wurm) lets you keep your house if you pay rent/upkeep.

I am hoping I am just mistaken here and someone can straighten this out for me.  I was really excited for this game but their housing system is a complete turn off

Win the bid... 3 months is a long time in mmoworld. Win the bid twice, and you will have had the house for 9 months! I don't have a problem with this system. There needs to be away of taking care of vacant houses, and limited space.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7637

7/24/13 4:27:00 PM#39
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by NightBandit

Not sure what all the fuss is about housing as I personally think it ruins MMO's as it makes people stay in one area when in fact it would be better having folk on the move all the time and gets people working together in groups if you on the move. Housing is just ego stuff showing off your assets. To me housing is just a gimmick and a waste of space and resources.

If you going to have housing the allow people to put houses where they want anywhere on the map and then defend the plot or loose it. What this will do is get people building houses together and protecting them as a team. The further adrift you build your house on the frontier the more chance you should have of loosing it for many reasons. That is how housing should be done and if you leave the game for any reason then your house should fall apart over a period of six months or so unless it gets raided and burnt to the ground. Or you could have NPC's take it over and use it as a base until they are killed or forced to move on.

Most other housing I've seen in games is just fluff and I feel developers are missing a trick here personally. When developers start to think outside the box then we can expect to see some decent innovation.

 

Bandit.

 Your opinion is wrong.  Point blank wrong.

uuh, what's wrong with it? I agree that the housing we've seen recently is pretty blah, even a waste of resources. His idea of having to defend, which builds communities is pretty sound to. Ofcourse there needs to be more particulars, but yeah.

 

Why do you feel he's wrong?

  Kirexy

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 21

8/02/13 10:36:16 AM#40

I must answer this

 

I understand some of you feel you will not have your house permanently and so, but having an option to keep it forever with no risk of competitors taking it, would have catastrophalical effects in the end. Like many of you have said, in case people can claim houses permanently, it will be those players who play the game early who gets the houses. All new players will find that these houses are already occupied and you will never get one of those.

That being said, permanent housing disattracts new players as it gives them litterally no chance to get ownership of a house. And there is a difference between ArcheAge housing and many other housing systems as you can build houses yourself, in BD, there is about 2000-3000 houses for 10000 players in each server. There simply isn't enough room for anyone to be able to claim a house permanently. If the houses would be able to be kept permanently, I'm sure fewer than 500 houses would be put on sale when time comes and man, those houses would be expensive.

This means, that not only do they need to clear up houses of players who stopped playing the game, they also need to make sure everybody gets a chance enjoying the cake. I know it sucks somebody might take something away from you, but doesn't it suck even more for the players who cannot even get a little little small taste of the cake? They want cake too, you know.

But as you say, there is one big issue, people grouping together just to get that specific house. Well, I must explain something here. Firstly, now when MMOs are in a such a broad market category, it can't really satisfy everyone. Some people wants to play online games but solo, some people really want to group up to do things, some people prefer to do things only in small groups etc.

Black Desert is going to resemble around Guilds, its the guilds who has the major powers in the games and it will be the guilds who control the market. Pearlabyss' vision is that having the housing bid system will make guilds start fighting over the strategic positions of houses and bidding at the right houses will be a strategic important part of this.

Besides, I bet many of us here wont even afford a personal house in BDO as it will really be a Luxury. If there are 3000 houses for 10k players, many of these houses will be set for Guilds. This means even fewer houses for the players. Perhaps, even getting your guild to own a house will be a big accomplishment.

Thus, housing of the game seem to be a type of end-game content. Perhaps you could share a house with your friends and then it will be easier to afford the house renting. Probably, there will be very few peopel who live Alone in their house. If everybody shared one house with 2-3 other people, that would make it enough for everybody on the server to have one house.

But not everybody will need a house, not everybody will bid for a house, so if just people will see this possibility, you will be able to share houses with others, this problem will become much lower.

I mustn't be the only one here to play MMORPGs for the social factors. Surely, many of you here have met one or two new friends at an online game and perhaps you have some so called "RL" friends playing that game too. Wouldn't it  feel awesome to say "this is our house" too rather than simply "my home"? It really brings some meaning to be social in the game.

Now, this basically means that 3000 houses actually isn't so few as it sounds. If people would just see the possibility of sharing your house with a "room-mate" the houses will probably not be put up to extreme prices, assuming they are regularly put on auction. The issues would remain if people had permanent ownership of houses (I explained the issues above). If you are smart, and want to live at the same place for a long time, you do not purchase the house in the most populous part of the game. You don't purchase the best-looking house everybody wants because there will be more people willing to bid for that house later. If you're smart, you bid for a house that isn't particularly special, but simply a normal house. If there are 10k people on one server, not all of them will even bid for the houses. And if people share houses together, there will be a big chance you will keep your house.

Just think strategically.

And besides, 3 months is a REALLY long time, I swear many of you switch your MMORPGs in 3 months. This is a quarter of a year and 3 World of Warcraft subcriptions. 3 Months is a lot of time for you to settle down in your home. And when you think about it, in the real world it is 1 month.

So, to end with, probably, it wont be as hard as you think to keep your house if you just work together with someone else and pick a house that isn't central to the game. After all, housing is said to be viewed as a luxury and not everybody will even have a house. Complete, personal houses will be very rare, probably. But it may be very possible to live with another person or group of people. And this is probably what is going to happen. I think it sounds fun, actually.... to work together as a group, I mean.

Because this issue really bases itself under the question if you are ready to play an MMORPG as an actual Mutiple Player game, or if you want to play it as a solo game. Lately, many MMORPGs are designed to be played as solo-games but online. Black Deserts seems to alter the game to be played with groups of people. Whether you like it or not, this is probably what should define the MMORPG genre, multiple player cooperation. If you would like to survive completely alone in Black Deserts, it is going to be really hard, you need the contacts just like in the real world.

After all, MMORPGs are meant to be played together with others, not together alone.

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