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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » The SotA PvP compromise

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21 posts found
  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  3/10/14 12:47:39 PM#1

Developers view on PvP -

- PvP will be consensual

- Insurance is in the game so no one will ever loose anything except some gold (if there are gold in the bank)

- A PvE player have access to 95% of the game world (cant be PK:d). 5% are reserved as PvP only areas

- Combat system is a card game that randomly give you some cards (your skills) to choose from, you cant choose, the game choose for you

More to read in this thread - 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/pvp-death-current-thinking-megapost.8247/

It is the same old story, PvE players whine and developers give them what they want. Everything that could have made this a good PvP game was rejected by developers (there were so much PvP lobbying going on). PvP players have talked to deaf developer ears from the beginning. 

 

 

 

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1294

3/10/14 1:19:23 PM#2

Pathfinder Online will be a much better game for PvP fantasy empire building type stuff. Honestly, the MMO aspects of SotA always have felt kind of tacked on to me. I backed it as a single player game (fond memories of old Ultima single player games) and hopefully with Tracy Hickman writing the story it will still deliver in that area although I'm not sold on that combat system at all.

 

  SoulTrapOnSelf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/17/13
Posts: 195

3/10/14 1:23:57 PM#3
wondering how many people backed this game to regret it later
  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 938

3/10/14 1:29:18 PM#4

I never expected this to be a PvP game.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  3/10/14 5:54:44 PM#5
Originally posted by Jaedor

I never expected this to be a PvP game.

It was announced to be a PvP game when it arrived on kickstarter. A RPG with PvP and PvE. So i have no clue where you got your expectations from.

  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 938

3/10/14 6:24:44 PM#6


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by Jaedor I never expected this to be a PvP game.
It was announced to be a PvP game when it arrived on kickstarter. A RPG with PvP and PvE. So i have no clue where you got your expectations from.

I got my expectations from the kickstarter, where it was described as a role-playing game (RPG) with both PvE and PvP. Not sure how that's confusing.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  3/10/14 7:09:05 PM#7
Originally posted by Jaedor

 


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by Jaedor I never expected this to be a PvP game.
It was announced to be a PvP game when it arrived on kickstarter. A RPG with PvP and PvE. So i have no clue where you got your expectations from.

 

I got my expectations from the kickstarter, where it was described as a role-playing game (RPG) with both PvE and PvP. Not sure how that's confusing.

You said you didnt expect it to be a PvP game and now you claim it will be one. That is confusing. If PvP is in a game then it is a PvP game even if it turns out to be as crappy as this one.

  Saxx0n

Tipster

Joined: 10/15/10
Posts: 827

3/10/14 7:15:49 PM#8

Sad, sad, sad. I'm sorry for your loss I saw this from the start and had little to no faith, it seems it was well founded.

 

All I can say is check this out http://lifeisfeudal.com/

 

I don't need to say anything because it speaks for itself.

 

Alpha is starting this week and I'm juiced.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  3/10/14 7:17:09 PM#9
Originally posted by SoulTrapOnSelf
wondering how many people backed this game to regret it later

Seems to be alot of them just by looking at that thread. 

I wonder why they waited such a long time presenting this PvP compromise? Afraid many would'nt pledge if they knew the truth about SotA PvP?

Developers should have presented this information when it was on kickstarter, many seem to feel they have been taken for a ride.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  3/10/14 7:21:26 PM#10
Originally posted by Saxx0n

Sad, sad, sad. I'm sorry for your loss I saw this from the start and had little to no faith, it seems it was well founded.

 

All I can say is check this out http://lifeisfeudal.com/

 

I don't need to say anything because it speaks for itself.

 

Alpha is starting this week and I'm juiced.

Thanks for the tip, that look awsome. Will talk to my guildies.

  jtripper

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/14/13
Posts: 40

3/11/14 11:37:15 AM#11
Originally posted by Aragon100

Developers view on PvP -

- PvP will be consensual

- Insurance is in the game so no one will ever loose anything except some gold (if there are gold in the bank)

- A PvE player have access to 95% of the game world (cant be PK:d). 5% are reserved as PvP only areas

- Combat system is a card game that randomly give you some cards (your skills) to choose from, you cant choose, the game choose for you

More to read in this thread - 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/pvp-death-current-thinking-megapost.8247/

It is the same old story, PvE players whine and developers give them what they want. Everything that could have made this a good PvP game was rejected by developers (there were so much PvP lobbying going on). PvP players have talked to deaf developer ears from the beginning.  

 

- True, PvP will be consensual.  You need to flag yourself for PvP to engage in combat with other PvP-flagged players.  There are many ways to do this:

- Open PvP (receive a "blessing" from the Oracle and you can attack all other "blessed" players anywhere)

- Join a PvP Guild

- Join any party where the leader is flagged PvP

- Enter a PvP-only zone (temporary until you leave the zone)

- Enter into a duel with anyone (temporary PvP flag until duel is over)

- There are cooldowns on PvP flags to prevent exploit but that logic has yet been revealed

- The current thinking is a ransom / loot system where you can choose to give up some random gear or a body part, or pay the ransom to keep it.  This is not final, just an idea they're playing with.  It may end up being more than one item, perhaps one per type (weapon, armor, etc.)

- That 5% is only an estimate and is a PvP-only zone.  That is, if you enter those areas, you are flagged as PvP...even PvE who enter it are flagged as PvP as long as they're in the PvP-only zone.  That does not mean that only 5% of the map is available to PvP.  When you are flagged PvP, you can attack anywhere in the game, even in towns.  Some towns might not like it and the guards will put down the disturbance, while other towns will relish it and don't care.

- Again, to repeat, if you are flagged PvP, you can attack all other PvP flagged players anywhere in the game.  You are not limited to that 5% of the map that is PvP-only zones.

- Combat is indeed a deck-based system so I agree there is a huge concern around this, but we'll see what happens in the coming releases.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  3/11/14 7:09:53 PM#12

I think this is a good summarize what SotA became after this so called PvP compromise, it is some well placed words by Struan and i quote -

[quote]

Sota is now confirmed to be a risk adverse, gear based game. I'm not saying that to be insulting. It just is.


There are plenty of similar games that do well financially and make a lot of people happy.

Please stop pretending there was a compromise. Anti PvP got all the protection they asked for and all the PvP nerfs they asked for...even in areas that are supposed to be open PvP.

That is not compromise. That is a clear siding and a very clear message by the dev team on their thinking and game direction.

1 - World pvp. Consensual and no risk. You don't know what the consequences will be in towns.
2 - Special hexes - still not open PvP. Still not full loot.
3 - Resources. PVP hexes - few in number - higher in resources. PVE hexes - huge in number - lower in resources. = Absolutely no requirement or reason to go into PvP hexes.
4 - PvP mini games...still consensual..still no risk. You take all the food but leave a grape and call yourself generous. Stop it. No one is buying it.
5 - All kinds of thief/stealing skills - Really..and you know this how? Please show me where this has been stated in detail. You can't. Stop already.
6- Exclusive gear. - It is now a gear based game. Sorry, this is fail for anyone that didn't want a gear based game.

PvP = 0, Lady I = 6

Lady I and other extreme anti-pvp friends...you won. Why are you still carrying on?

These would have been real compromises:
- A portion of the world (even a small portion)that was full loot open pvp with Pks. Keep your resource levels, keep your non pvp zones etc.
- Either that or make the world open PvP with a perma death penalty or some other severe penalty.
- Make it so playing a thief or PK was much harder. Criminals get a 10-20% perm skill debuf. Make them much easier to kill.

Any of these would have resulted in a very small population of criminals but would have kept the thrill..the threat..the idea that at any time you could be attacked.

Lesson learned. Won't be jumping on the bandwagon and donating like that again.

Although the number of people that wanted an open, free choice world with both PvP and PvE is encouraging. Hopefully some developers pick up on this and make a real UO spiritual successor..soon.

[/quote]

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/pvp-death-current-thinking-megapost.8247/page-65#post-143259

 

  erponxaos

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 7

3/20/14 2:26:34 AM#13

Been there mate.Waiting to see what retail will bring (which more or less is easy to predict)  and really i start feel in a very annoyed/dissapointed state at the moment.

I check Albion Online and Life is Feudal which seem very promising.

Seems Richard wants to go to space again and i dont plan to fuel him.I rather support small companies and people that really want to offer a different gameplay than the usual WoW clone item-oriented no risk game

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

3/20/14 2:45:27 AM#14

I'm not sure how anyone could think that any even remotely high profile MMO would ever again have FFA open world PvP with full loot. That idea was bad back when it was conceived in UO (and MUDs before that) and it hasn't got any better during the years.

The only reason people were willing to put up with that crap is because back in the day there were no other alternatives if you wanted to play a solid MMO.

The only message the devs ever needed was the fact that the great majority of players in UO moved to Trammel as soon as it was introduced. People want to PvP on their own terms (consensual) instead of being molested by a small minded player on a powertrip.

 

Real PvPers are happy with consensual PvP, even more than FFA PvP, because then you will be fighting opponents that at least think they're prepared and ready for PvP, and that they will at least give you some kind of challenge. Only griefers prefer FFA PvP, because then they have a much higher chance of having a certain victory over a helpless victim. News flash - that's not PvP any more than hunting deers is.

 

  Madatan

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/03/05
Posts: 134

3/20/14 2:53:57 AM#15
Originally posted by tom_gore

I'm not sure how anyone could think that any even remotely high profile MMO would ever again have FFA open world PvP with full loot. That idea was bad back when it was conceived in UO (and MUDs before that) and it hasn't got any better during the years.

The only reason people were willing to put up with that crap is because back in the day there were no other alternatives if you wanted to play a solid MMO.

 

 

Ahh, so thats the reason why i loved UO and been playing MUDs for years. Thank you for telling my the reasons behind my actions!

  erponxaos

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 7

3/20/14 3:04:37 AM#16

News flash.If we wanted another wow with pvp element clone we can always play WoW.

Anyway the point isnt to argue with a player that supports PvE and no or partial loot.

Whoever pledged or watches this game as a hope of something new back off.

Game goes straight to WoW land plain and simple and you should better watch Albion Online and Life Is Feudal.

As for SoTA...pray that you will find someone to sell your accounto as iam gonna do after release.That is if you are an UO vet that waited for something completely open 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  3/26/14 7:15:30 PM#17
Originally posted by erponxaos

News flash.If we wanted another wow with pvp element clone we can always play WoW.

Anyway the point isnt to argue with a player that supports PvE and no or partial loot.

Whoever pledged or watches this game as a hope of something new back off.

Game goes straight to WoW land plain and simple and you should better watch Albion Online and Life Is Feudal.

As for SoTA...pray that you will find someone to sell your accounto as iam gonna do after release.That is if you are an UO vet that waited for something completely open 

True. There is nothing in this game for the ones that enjoyed pre Age of Shadows PvP in UO.

WoW PvP actually seems very hardcore if compared to this. WoW dont have a random, luckbased card game as combat system.

 

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10704

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

3/26/14 8:09:18 PM#18
Originally posted by Aragon100

Developers view on PvP -

- PvP will be consensual

- Insurance is in the game so no one will ever loose anything except some gold (if there are gold in the bank)

- A PvE player have access to 95% of the game world (cant be PK:d). 5% are reserved as PvP only areas

- Combat system is a card game that randomly give you some cards (your skills) to choose from, you cant choose, the game choose for you

More to read in this thread - 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/pvp-death-current-thinking-megapost.8247/

It is the same old story, PvE players whine and developers give them what they want. Everything that could have made this a good PvP game was rejected by developers (there were so much PvP lobbying going on). PvP players have talked to deaf developer ears from the beginning. 

 

It's just a numbers thing.  There are more people who prefer PvP to be by choice after starting the game rather than a choice that must be made when deciding which game to purchase.  I'm pretty sure nobody had to whine at Lord British.  He has first hand experience of trying to do something in a PvP game while a PvP player decides to f things up.

 

http://www.uo.com/article/Memorable-Moments-Richard-Garriot

 

He knows better than anyone if you want a particular kind of game or experience, you can't leave it up to the players because they will inevitably devolve to the least common denominator.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  hockeyplayr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 558

3/26/14 8:45:09 PM#19
in the 5% of the map that is open pvp, is it full loot?
  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  3/27/14 1:44:19 AM#20
Originally posted by hockeyplayr
in the 5% of the map that is open pvp, is it full loot?

No it isn't.

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