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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » Worried about direction of SotA

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61 posts found
  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 741

11/03/13 11:43:30 AM#21
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

To the OP.

Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

I'm glad we have sorted this out.

Says the guy who got banned from their official forums :)

 

My advice to you is to open your eyes. I used to be in the blind love camp for RG and devs, but recently I've just been shocked by the huge focus on housing.

 

Why the HECK are they primarily designing this game for the 20% of the players who could afford to throw money at the game?

What is going on here?

 

In that video RG was almost selling his soul, practically advertising the Lord of the Manor mansion as if he was a used car salesman. I could not believe it!

Do you know how much the Lord of the Manor costs? TEN FRIKKEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!

 

Yeah that's right, keep designing this game for the wealthy. UN- BE- LIEVABLE is all I can say.

  underthebridge

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/13
Posts: 7

 
OP  11/03/13 1:11:33 PM#22
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

To the OP.

Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

I'm glad we have sorted this out.

 

I am not sure whether you mean crowdsourcing - as in players get to create content like their houses,  or crownfunding -- as in money being used to develop the project.

I think you may have meant the latter, but here's my take on it...

This game's primary funding is NOT through crowdfunding. Do you honestly think that $2.5 million or whatever is enough to develop a big MMO? With that being said, Portalarium had a legitimate opportunity to raise extra money through kickstarter... housing was available to a select few who could afford it. We were under the impression it was an optional or trivial thing featured in the game. Either way, it was no secret that the game would primarily be funded by other means.

Now fast-forward to the present moment. We learn that housing has become one of the FOCUS of the game. And month after month, the team keeps trying to push you to buy a house, basement, etc. you name it. Next it will be "Buy an attic to add to your house!".  Surprisingly, their campaign to collect money from houses has continued well beyond kickstarter.

Please don't tell me that crowdfunding and houses is being used to fund development... they would have ran out of money ages ago.

  Gaeluian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/23/09
Posts: 76

To be or not to be, I don't really care!

11/03/13 1:16:25 PM#23

I'm in the wrong business.  $500 for a virtual house?

Time to go to kickstarter, claim that I'm going to make a great game and see if people will just buy in, then, after a few mil, drop off the face of the earth.

What a scam!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6126

11/03/13 1:27:23 PM#24

Where did you get the idea housing and simulation were just ancillary features? I always got the impression from their KS and reveals that housing, crafting, and simulation was a huge part of the game. I really don't think they have misrepresented themselves about this at all, especially given Garriott's history with game design.

I didn't mind that, but their housing sales looked very expensive to me: $200 - $500 for nice setups. It's one reason I haven't funded the game yet, that and I don't know how pvp among other systems will turn out.

If the game launches and it's not what I want then I won't play it. I'm not going to play a vassal to a bunch of early adopters who bought their titles and positions. Now if the gameplay appeals to me and I play on a relatively even field with the opportunity to advance as any other, then maybe I'll give it a go.

Early adopters and funders donated money on an assumption, but the fact is none of those systems were set in stone and many of them not even well defined. It sounds to me like you had your own concept of what the game would mean and I can understand that, but the reality isn't matching up and there was nothing saying it would. If you're not willing to fund a vague concept and accept the final results however the cake ends up baked, then it's probably best to wait for the final product before investing your money and time into the project.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4155

11/03/13 1:31:32 PM#25
Originally posted by Ender4

Ultima Online was a really awful game. I know you have this nostalgia about it but the PvE was awful, the game was exploitable as heck and the netcode itself was bad even given the times. Lord Brittish made some great single player RPG when it wasn't a flourishing market but there is no reason to think he can make an awesome MMORPG.

I'm going to vote no and disagree with you on this. Of course it is your opinion, but UO was an awesome game and still is for it's style. Nothing awful lasts this many years and has so many fans associated with it. 

As far as SotA goes, I will have to play it before making my mind up about it. It looks interesting and I like the idea of the housing, especially if it holds the same ideas that UO has.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1082

11/03/13 1:35:16 PM#26

Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

11/03/13 8:26:03 PM#27
Originally posted by superconducting
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

To the OP.

Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

I'm glad we have sorted this out.

Says the guy who got banned from their official forums :)

 

My advice to you is to open your eyes. I used to be in the blind love camp for RG and devs, but recently I've just been shocked by the huge focus on housing.

 

Why the HECK are they primarily designing this game for the 20% of the players who could afford to throw money at the game?

What is going on here?

 

In that video RG was almost selling his soul, practically advertising the Lord of the Manor mansion as if he was a used car salesman. I could not believe it!

Do you know how much the Lord of the Manor costs? TEN FRIKKEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!

 

Yeah that's right, keep designing this game for the wealthy. UN- BE- LIEVABLE is all I can say.

 

They can't ban all my accounts. I am still there lurking, dont worry.

Who cares about lord of the manner? You are paying only to meet RG and have dinner at his house for that, big deal. Some people are of course much better off than others, that is life man, can't really do anything about that except do better for yourself.

The cost of getting all five games is very low, it is not designed for the wealthy, and its price point is better than most. Everything on top of that are just huge carebear items or perks. 

You that mad bro? You a huge carebear?

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

11/03/13 8:35:22 PM#28
Originally posted by underthebridge
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

To the OP.

Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

I'm glad we have sorted this out.

 

I am not sure whether you mean crowdsourcing - as in players get to create content like their houses,  or crownfunding -- as in money being used to develop the project.

I think you may have meant the latter, but here's my take on it...

This game's primary funding is NOT through crowdfunding. Do you honestly think that $2.5 million or whatever is enough to develop a big MMO? With that being said, Portalarium had a legitimate opportunity to raise extra money through kickstarter... housing was available to a select few who could afford it. We were under the impression it was an optional or trivial thing featured in the game. Either way, it was no secret that the game would primarily be funded by other means.

Now fast-forward to the present moment. We learn that housing has become one of the FOCUS of the game. And month after month, the team keeps trying to push you to buy a house, basement, etc. you name it. Next it will be "Buy an attic to add to your house!".  Surprisingly, their campaign to collect money from houses has continued well beyond kickstarter.

Please don't tell me that crowdfunding and houses is being used to fund development... they would have ran out of money ages ago.

 

Portalarium's selected interface to the players is crowd-whatevering. That is how they have chosen to communicate with us, so our only avenue to affect change is to use that method.

You have a much better chance getting noticed or change over there than you do over here with your finger on the Q button all day long.

Believe me it happens, not all of it good, but it happens. Some weirdo actually just got axes moved from slashing weapons into a bashing weapon category. Insane.

 

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

11/03/13 8:36:48 PM#29
Originally posted by Gaeluian

I'm in the wrong business.  $500 for a virtual house?

Time to go to kickstarter, claim that I'm going to make a great game and see if people will just buy in, then, after a few mil, drop off the face of the earth.

What a scam!

 

For you? Not a chance. For the man who created computer RPGs and basically the defining MMO? Hell yes.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

11/03/13 8:39:02 PM#30
Originally posted by Boneserino

Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

 

No, the freak out started long before the 6month demo on this site. It is very sad indeed. :(

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

11/09/13 7:18:33 AM#31
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Boneserino

Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

 

No, the freak out started long before the 6month demo on this site. It is very sad indeed. :(

It is no freak out.

People are concerned about the game.

If you have issues with it then i think it is good you tell others about it.

Old UO players believing they are funding the next UO game wont be happy when they find out this game is nowhere close to old UO, it is actually way closer to all the carebear games out there. Even PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19520

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/09/13 7:43:38 AM#32
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Boneserino

Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

 

No, the freak out started long before the 6month demo on this site. It is very sad indeed. :(

It is no freak out.

People are concerned about the game.

If you have issues with it then i think it is good you tell others about it.

Old UO players believing they are funding the next UO game wont be happy when they find out this game is nowhere close to old UO, it is actually way closer to all the carebear games out there. Even PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.

Old UO players should have known better than o believe this.

It has been quite clear for many many years that RG is interested in creating games that make money,  and this is just a reuse of a favorite old IP in order to draw potential customers in, much as EQ Next is doing.

But neither game is going to be very much like it's forebearers, regardless how much people hope for differently.

Walk away Aragon,you are never going to get what you wish, no matter how much you complain about it. 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

11/09/13 8:10:51 AM#33

The game will simply have both Trammel and Felucca built in from start, I don't see the problem. More choices = bigger player base = more money for the devs to add new quality content.

What I'm worried about is the "pay to win a house" system. The PvP is a non issue.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

11/09/13 9:09:51 AM#34
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

The game will simply have both Trammel and Felucca built in from start, I don't see the problem. More choices = bigger player base = more money for the devs to add new quality content.

What I'm worried about is the "pay to win a house" system. The PvP is a non issue.

How can you say it have a felucca version when it havent? It isnt old felucca just cause the game have PvP.

There is no non-consensual PvP, no skillbased PvP and full loot is not even decided if it will be in the game. There is no risk vs reward in SotA, PvE players will get same reward in their safe version of SotA.

If your satisfied with the PvP SotA will provide then we obviously have different demands on the PvP games were playing.

I want a PvP game as close as possible to old UO and that is not what SotA will bring to the table.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

11/09/13 9:10:38 AM#35
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Boneserino

Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

 

No, the freak out started long before the 6month demo on this site. It is very sad indeed. :(

It is no freak out.

People are concerned about the game.

If you have issues with it then i think it is good you tell others about it.

Old UO players believing they are funding the next UO game wont be happy when they find out this game is nowhere close to old UO, it is actually way closer to all the carebear games out there. Even PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.

Old UO players should have known better than o believe this.

It has been quite clear for many many years that RG is interested in creating games that make money,  and this is just a reuse of a favorite old IP in order to draw potential customers in, much as EQ Next is doing.

But neither game is going to be very much like it's forebearers, regardless how much people hope for differently.

Walk away Aragon,you are never going to get what you wish, no matter how much you complain about it. 

 

Your right, we should have known better.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

11/09/13 10:48:07 AM#36
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

The game will simply have both Trammel and Felucca built in from start, I don't see the problem. More choices = bigger player base = more money for the devs to add new quality content.

What I'm worried about is the "pay to win a house" system. The PvP is a non issue.

How can you say it have a felucca version when it havent? It isnt old felucca just cause the game have PvP.

There is no non-consensual PvP, no skillbased PvP and full loot is not even decided if it will be in the game. There is no risk vs reward in SotA, PvE players will get same reward in their safe version of SotA.

If your satisfied with the PvP SotA will provide then we obviously have different demands on the PvP games were playing.

I want a PvP game as close as possible to old UO and that is not what SotA will bring to the table.

http://www.darkfallonline.com/

Don't thank me, you're welcome. Instead of trying to turn games into what they are not, why not play games which are what you are looking for instead? Maybe because what you want is NOT VIABLE? Because a game like what you dream of just does not work anymore in today's market? Maybe that's because those games like Darkfall failed and suck?

Not a single time the SotA development team has said this would be a copy of "old UO" with the forced full loot FFA PvP. Not a single time. You, and you alone, imagined this game would be something that it has never been meant to be.

But whatever... time to use one of the features of this website and stop reading this boring repetitive complaining.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  underthebridge

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/13
Posts: 7

 
OP  11/28/13 12:26:24 AM#37

Aragorn100,

I don't think the SotA devs ever had any intention of making an RPG for an experienced gamer. We heard that RG wanted to make a game where low-level players could enjoy it equally well, where you were insulated from unfair PvP attacks, etc. But we never made much of it.


Now the carebear p2w game is unfolding before our eyes. I am glad I didn't fall for their housing trap. Sad it will probably be a ghost town within a few months of its release.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1826

12/04/13 7:06:27 PM#38

Progress reports are exactly that. They report what has been worked on so far. When a game is designed every single little element to the game is planned out and put on a schedule for completion. This is done system by system which means certain things are not focused on until scheduled which can be further along in development. It DOES NOT mean the game is focused entirely on the current systems being developed.

 

If the game is 30% completed it will be a mix of several systems nearly complete and many systems using initial place holders that simply are a proof of concept. The last video repeated over and over again that combat was an initial development and would be refined much more later on. 

 

So you end up with a report, reporting about what has been worked on thus far, not what it will be. A concept many of you seem to be clueless about prior to bitching on the forums. I personally wonder if any of you ever go to a construction site of a building tower and say out loud, "This building has no windows! FAIL!" ... 6 months before the building is even close to completion. Do you hear yourselves? Do you wonder what others around you are thinking when you bypass the "stupid" filter in your brain?

 

This is also a game where the systems simply allow a player to do what they want and the entirety of the end game is player driven. This means you likely rarely see "end game" epic'ness because it takes players to drive the content which only occurs when the game is both developed and has players. This is the big unknown in a sandbox game though until you actually play it.

 

My biggest worry as always is how the monetization system will impact the game. 

You stay sassy!

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 741

12/04/13 7:47:09 PM#39
Originally posted by Tamanous

Progress reports are exactly that. They report what has been worked on so far. When a game is designed every single little element to the game is planned out and put on a schedule for completion. This is done system by system which means certain things are not focused on until scheduled which can be further along in development. It DOES NOT mean the game is focused entirely on the current systems being developed.

 

If the game is 30% completed it will be a mix of several systems nearly complete and many systems using initial place holders that simply are a proof of concept. The last video repeated over and over again that combat was an initial development and would be refined much more later on. 

 

So you end up with a report, reporting about what has been worked on thus far, not what it will be. A concept many of you seem to be clueless about prior to bitching on the forums. I personally wonder if any of you ever go to a construction site of a building tower and say out loud, "This building has no windows! FAIL!" ... 6 months before the building is even close to completion. Do you hear yourselves? Do you wonder what others around you are thinking when you bypass the "stupid" filter in your brain?

 

This is also a game where the systems simply allow a player to do what they want and the entirety of the end game is player driven. This means you likely rarely see "end game" epic'ness because it takes players to drive the content which only occurs when the game is both developed and has players. This is the big unknown in a sandbox game though until you actually play it.

 

My biggest worry as always is how the monetization system will impact the game. 

People who read between the lines and have a heightened sense of what really may be going on are most certainly NOT stupid, in fact the opposite is true. Also, nobody said progress reports were the only thing indicating how big of a deal housing would be. Just look at the add-on store and see for yourself.

 

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1826

12/04/13 8:04:32 PM#40
Originally posted by superconducting
Originally posted by Tamanous

Progress reports are exactly that. They report what has been worked on so far. When a game is designed every single little element to the game is planned out and put on a schedule for completion. This is done system by system which means certain things are not focused on until scheduled which can be further along in development. It DOES NOT mean the game is focused entirely on the current systems being developed.

 

If the game is 30% completed it will be a mix of several systems nearly complete and many systems using initial place holders that simply are a proof of concept. The last video repeated over and over again that combat was an initial development and would be refined much more later on. 

 

So you end up with a report, reporting about what has been worked on thus far, not what it will be. A concept many of you seem to be clueless about prior to bitching on the forums. I personally wonder if any of you ever go to a construction site of a building tower and say out loud, "This building has no windows! FAIL!" ... 6 months before the building is even close to completion. Do you hear yourselves? Do you wonder what others around you are thinking when you bypass the "stupid" filter in your brain?

 

This is also a game where the systems simply allow a player to do what they want and the entirety of the end game is player driven. This means you likely rarely see "end game" epic'ness because it takes players to drive the content which only occurs when the game is both developed and has players. This is the big unknown in a sandbox game though until you actually play it.

 

My biggest worry as always is how the monetization system will impact the game. 

People who read between the lines and have a heightened sense of what really may be going on are most certainly NOT stupid, in fact the opposite is true. Also, nobody said progress reports were the only thing indicating how big of a deal housing would be. Just look at the add-on store and see for yourself.

 

Which is why the payment model is my largest concern for any game. The only caveat to this is that they are still in crowd funding mode and this isn't necessarily a reflection on how it will be after launch. It doesn't leave a great feeling in my stomach so we agree there.

 

The point of my post though is that it is silly judging where the game is headed when a sandbox game is developed system by system and the majority of the final game play is player driven by using all game systems concurrently. By definition this cannot occur until they are all made. Progress reports are not called Final Game reports for a reason.

 

I also see nothing list in the FAQs and blogs on their site about having to master 100% of all systems in order to play this game. Going out to explore and raid the majority of time in game which is what many posters here obviously seem to want to do is not so much a game system as a player choice. You don't make a progress report focusing entirely on "Player movement is in game! Now you can go forth and explore!". That is a little redundant.

 

What I see is a more a game trying to grant players far more freedom in game to do anything they want which clearly includes Viking like raiding for those interested in that play style. It also clearly supports those players not as interested in that sort of thing. The developers are working very closely with the founders and seeing how so many are UO fans (similar to CU being founded by many DAOC fans) I am sure their voice will be heard and head loudly.

 

Very little on pvp is revealed yet and logically so seeing how early development is. Even CU had not revealed nearly anything specific on pvp and it is a 100% rvr game! Most of what we know is about housing as well which is about world building to set the stage for rvr which is extremely important for the game even if you have no interest in it.

 

Basically it is still too early to judge and be thankful your voice can be heard if you pledged. If EQ were making an UO game you would have zero impact on it's development.

 

As to my insult (If I insult it is to those worthy of receiving it. If you are not then ignore it), it refers to people making assumptions and them basing their opinion entirely around it despite there being no facts to back it up. You can have an opinion but until this game is released and YOU have played it your opinion should be fluid with every consideration possible for change once new evidence is presented. We simply do not know enough about the game. Developers rarely reveal content until proof of concept is locked into place ... even in a player funded game. 

You stay sassy!

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