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22 posts found
  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/10/13 2:41:17 PM#1

SotA magic system seem to be a card game where each card is a certain spell. The game choose randomly from the spells i know which ones i can actually use at a certain time. Those available cards is the only ones i can use. It is not up to me to decide what spell to cast.

This will as i see it remove just about all combat flow from the game and alot of the player skills needed. It will most likely be very slow and getting the right spell from the game will also matter alot. 

Seem like SotA developers listened to much to the less skilled PvE players when they decided this was the system of their choice.

Edit: Here it is on video and it  seem just as bad as i thought it would -

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/10/31/shroud-of-the-avatar-developer-commentary

PvP demonstration starts at 16:30 and it looks like the game is playing you not the other way arround. I would look more at the cards then the actual combat situation, what a fiasco of a combat system. Richard Garriott was a part of making the best PvP system ever with UO and now he makes card games, what have come of the world?

 

 

  iridescence

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

10/10/13 3:20:15 PM#2
Originally posted by Aragon100

SotA magic system seem to be a card game where each card is a certain spell. The game choose randomly from the spells i know which ones i can actually use at a certain time. Those available cards is the only ones i can use. It is not up to me to decide what spell to cast.

 

 

Do you have a source for this? I thought the were going for a reagent based system like the old Ultima games used.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/10/13 4:44:14 PM#3
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by Aragon100

SotA magic system seem to be a card game where each card is a certain spell. The game choose randomly from the spells i know which ones i can actually use at a certain time. Those available cards is the only ones i can use. It is not up to me to decide what spell to cast.

 

 

Do you have a source for this? I thought the were going for a reagent based system like the old Ultima games used.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/does-anyone-else-hate-the-proposed-card-system.3128/page-4

  GungaDin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 458

10/10/13 5:13:47 PM#4

They have not released enough details yet about the "Card System" to make any solid assumptions.  That post was just for a forum user. 

I honestly don't know how combat or magic will work but when they start releasing official update, we can debate the topic better.

  iridescence

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

10/10/13 5:14:26 PM#5

OK thanks. Blech, seems like a lame system. I never played UO but I backed this wanted a sequel to the old SP Ultimas I used to play which had an awesome magic system. But this card BS seems to have no connection to anything he's made before and seems very dumbed down and random. Starting to get a bit worried about this game. Probably shouldn't have bought all 5 of the games...

 

Maybe they'll change their mind and go with a more sensible combat system?

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/10/13 5:37:13 PM#6
Originally posted by GungaDin

They have not released enough details yet about the "Card System" to make any solid assumptions.  That post was just for a forum user. 

I honestly don't know how combat or magic will work but when they start releasing official update, we can debate the topic better.

Yes they have released enough details to make assumptions based on that information. And waiting? Then it might be to late for creating a totally different system. I believe they are going for the cardsystem one way or another. 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/10/13 5:37:48 PM#7
Originally posted by iridescence

OK thanks. Blech, seems like a lame system. I never played UO but I backed this wanted a sequel to the old SP Ultimas I used to play which had an awesome magic system. But this card BS seems to have no connection to anything he's made before and seems very dumbed down and random. Starting to get a bit worried about this game. Probably shouldn't have bought all 5 of the games...

 

Maybe they'll change their mind and go with a more sensible combat system?

I sure hope so.

  GungaDin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 458

10/10/13 6:02:05 PM#8

Right, but exactly how will it work?  Do you pick 10 spells to have ready / learned?  There was also talk of a weapon or staff being enchanted with magic to give you another spell to use.  There are quite a few things we don't fully understand. 

Remember in the old D&D days and old RPGs, you had to learn a spell first before using it.  Do some preparation first before casting it. 

In casting spell books , most talk about preparing spells, enchanting a symbol etc.  You don't just get a book of 64 spells and bam !! you spam cast whatever the hell you feel like. 

To me, this card system of preparing spells etc, may not only be a different approach but may make for more strategy.  Don't a lot of people enjoy that magic game ? 

I need to know more or see it in action first before i make any true opinions.  If you need your twitch combat, click , click , macro fast paced action, then yea, maybe this won't be at that speed.  However, it could be more complex and require more strategy.  Far from being dumbed down. 

 

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/10/13 6:27:26 PM#9
Originally posted by GungaDin

Right, but exactly how will it work?  Do you pick 10 spells to have ready / learned?  There was also talk of a weapon or staff being enchanted with magic to give you another spell to use.  There are quite a few things we don't fully understand. 

Remember in the old D&D days and old RPGs, you had to learn a spell first before using it.  Do some preparation first before casting it. 

In casting spell books , most talk about preparing spells, enchanting a symbol etc.  You don't just get a book of 64 spells and bam !! you spam cast whatever the hell you feel like. 

To me, this card system of preparing spells etc, may not only be a different approach but may make for more strategy.  Don't a lot of people enjoy that magic game ? 

I need to know more or see it in action first before i make any true opinions.  If you need your twitch combat, click , click , macro fast paced action, then yea, maybe this won't be at that speed.  However, it could be more complex and require more strategy.  Far from being dumbed down. 

 

 

You had to learn the spell in UO also, you didnt get a spellbook with 64 spells, you found them on mobs and the best spells were found on the hard ones.

UO had loads of strategy and demanded a intelligent, chilly, quick thinking mind. It was not just pressing buttons faster then the other guy, and it wasnt as twitch based as some players seems to think. It needed timing not speed. You had to cast your spell at the right time not the fastest.

This system with cards is as i see it only created to please the hardcore roleplayers and the less skilled ones. Preparing a spell just to please the roleplayers immersion seems to be the choice SotA choose. If you already know a spell then cast it, preparing  is just making the game slower and less skillbased.

Thought it could be good to inform the ones that want a skillbased PvPgame  that this might not be the game for them. Roleplayers yes but the ones that enjoy to play skillbased PvP? Doubt it.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

10/12/13 8:58:37 PM#10
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by GungaDin

Right, but exactly how will it work?  Do you pick 10 spells to have ready / learned?  There was also talk of a weapon or staff being enchanted with magic to give you another spell to use.  There are quite a few things we don't fully understand. 

Remember in the old D&D days and old RPGs, you had to learn a spell first before using it.  Do some preparation first before casting it. 

In casting spell books , most talk about preparing spells, enchanting a symbol etc.  You don't just get a book of 64 spells and bam !! you spam cast whatever the hell you feel like. 

To me, this card system of preparing spells etc, may not only be a different approach but may make for more strategy.  Don't a lot of people enjoy that magic game ? 

I need to know more or see it in action first before i make any true opinions.  If you need your twitch combat, click , click , macro fast paced action, then yea, maybe this won't be at that speed.  However, it could be more complex and require more strategy.  Far from being dumbed down. 

 

 

You had to learn the spell in UO also, you didnt get a spellbook with 64 spells, you found them on mobs and the best spells were found on the hard ones.

UO had loads of strategy and demanded a intelligent, chilly, quick thinking mind. It was not just pressing buttons faster then the other guy, and it wasnt as twitch based as some players seems to think. It needed timing not speed. You had to cast your spell at the right time not the fastest.

This system with cards is as i see it only created to please the hardcore roleplayers and the less skilled ones. Preparing a spell just to please the roleplayers immersion seems to be the choice SotA choose. If you already know a spell then cast it, preparing  is just making the game slower and less skillbased.

Thought it could be good to inform the ones that want a skillbased PvPgame  that this might not be the game for them. Roleplayers yes but the ones that enjoy to play skillbased PvP? Doubt it.

Devs said if it isnt well received in alpha beta they already have a backup plan.

Try not to dump on it before you've even tried it.

  Galadourn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1039

10/20/13 10:40:20 AM#11
actually this reminds me of AD&D spells/day system. Which is not a bad thing at all.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  iridescence

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

10/20/13 10:55:31 AM#12

If it's like old D&D I'm fine with it. I pictured something luck based like Magic the Gathering where you can only cast your spell if it happens to come up in your "hand". That's what I don't want. If I know a spell, I should be able to just have it available without some stupid random system involved.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/25/13 10:46:08 AM#13
Originally posted by iridescence

If it's like old D&D I'm fine with it. I pictured something luck based like Magic the Gathering where you can only cast your spell if it happens to come up in your "hand". That's what I don't want. If I know a spell, I should be able to just have it available without some stupid random system involved.

 

You will only be able to choose the card (spell) the game have choosen for you, not the spell that you actually wanted to cast.

It is a system created to please the players with little experience with PvP, see it as a way to dumb down PvP, make it less skill demanding.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

10/25/13 6:59:48 PM#14
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by iridescence

If it's like old D&D I'm fine with it. I pictured something luck based like Magic the Gathering where you can only cast your spell if it happens to come up in your "hand". That's what I don't want. If I know a spell, I should be able to just have it available without some stupid random system involved.

 

You will only be able to choose the card (spell) the game have choosen for you, not the spell that you actually wanted to cast.

It is a system created to please the players with little experience with PvP, see it as a way to dumb down PvP, make it less skill demanding.

 

Really? Can you please pass me a download link so I can test that out, because I have my doubts thats exactly how it works. Please give me a link for the Alpha client, I'd love to see.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/25/13 7:15:47 PM#15
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by iridescence

If it's like old D&D I'm fine with it. I pictured something luck based like Magic the Gathering where you can only cast your spell if it happens to come up in your "hand". That's what I don't want. If I know a spell, I should be able to just have it available without some stupid random system involved.

 

You will only be able to choose the card (spell) the game have choosen for you, not the spell that you actually wanted to cast.

It is a system created to please the players with little experience with PvP, see it as a way to dumb down PvP, make it less skill demanding.

 

Really? Can you please pass me a download link so I can test that out, because I have my doubts thats exactly how it works. Please give me a link for the Alpha client, I'd love to see.

You dont need a alpha client to understand this, you can read it on the SotA forums. Read up on the developer information.

What is really funny is to see selfproclaimed hardcore PvP players accepting this abuse of PvP system. They are no real hardcore PvP players and the game will lack players like me when it goes live.

I dont play PvP games that is based on luck and without skills.

They should have gone for a system like old Ultima Online had - the so far more skillbased magic system seen in any MMO. Some without any knowledge of that system claim it was fast just fast button pressure but that is very far from the truth. You had to time every button pressure exactly to get the spell effect you wanted and you had to outsmart your opponent.

SotA magic system seems to be one of the worst ever created.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

10/25/13 9:48:16 PM#16
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by iridescence

If it's like old D&D I'm fine with it. I pictured something luck based like Magic the Gathering where you can only cast your spell if it happens to come up in your "hand". That's what I don't want. If I know a spell, I should be able to just have it available without some stupid random system involved.

 

You will only be able to choose the card (spell) the game have choosen for you, not the spell that you actually wanted to cast.

It is a system created to please the players with little experience with PvP, see it as a way to dumb down PvP, make it less skill demanding.

 

Really? Can you please pass me a download link so I can test that out, because I have my doubts thats exactly how it works. Please give me a link for the Alpha client, I'd love to see.

You dont need a alpha client to understand this, you can read it on the SotA forums. Read up on the developer information.

What is really funny is to see selfproclaimed hardcore PvP players accepting this abuse of PvP system. They are no real hardcore PvP players and the game will lack players like me when it goes live.

I dont play PvP games that is based on luck and without skills.

They should have gone for a system like old Ultima Online had - the so far more skillbased magic system seen in any MMO. Some without any knowledge of that system claim it was fast just fast button pressure but that is very far from the truth. You had to time every button pressure exactly to get the spell effect you wanted and you had to outsmart your opponent.

SotA magic system seems to be one of the worst ever created.

 

Oh ok, I thought you were actually on to something there for a moment, but without being able to see how it plays it is useless for me to judge. I'd need to play it.

I'm sure after we test it, if we don't like it, they will have a backup plan. I remember that being said somewhere.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/26/13 8:40:18 AM#17
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by iridescence

If it's like old D&D I'm fine with it. I pictured something luck based like Magic the Gathering where you can only cast your spell if it happens to come up in your "hand". That's what I don't want. If I know a spell, I should be able to just have it available without some stupid random system involved.

 

You will only be able to choose the card (spell) the game have choosen for you, not the spell that you actually wanted to cast.

It is a system created to please the players with little experience with PvP, see it as a way to dumb down PvP, make it less skill demanding.

 

Really? Can you please pass me a download link so I can test that out, because I have my doubts thats exactly how it works. Please give me a link for the Alpha client, I'd love to see.

You dont need a alpha client to understand this, you can read it on the SotA forums. Read up on the developer information.

What is really funny is to see selfproclaimed hardcore PvP players accepting this abuse of PvP system. They are no real hardcore PvP players and the game will lack players like me when it goes live.

I dont play PvP games that is based on luck and without skills.

They should have gone for a system like old Ultima Online had - the so far more skillbased magic system seen in any MMO. Some without any knowledge of that system claim it was fast just fast button pressure but that is very far from the truth. You had to time every button pressure exactly to get the spell effect you wanted and you had to outsmart your opponent.

SotA magic system seems to be one of the worst ever created.

 

Oh ok, I thought you were actually on to something there for a moment, but without being able to see how it plays it is useless for me to judge. I'd need to play it.

I'm sure after we test it, if we don't like it, they will have a backup plan. I remember that being said somewhere.

Not being able to choose which spell to cast but instead have to choose the ones the game choose for you remove much of the skills you as a player can develop ingame. Your hands will be tied behind your back.

If you want to heal your friend in a teamfight and the heal spell isnt available then i think that speak for itself. Such a magic system i dont have to try to be able to understand it. 

It will be a game of luck and little playerskills. A dumbed down system to please players with little PvP experience. 

 

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

10/26/13 10:30:51 PM#18
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by iridescence

If it's like old D&D I'm fine with it. I pictured something luck based like Magic the Gathering where you can only cast your spell if it happens to come up in your "hand". That's what I don't want. If I know a spell, I should be able to just have it available without some stupid random system involved.

 

You will only be able to choose the card (spell) the game have choosen for you, not the spell that you actually wanted to cast.

It is a system created to please the players with little experience with PvP, see it as a way to dumb down PvP, make it less skill demanding.

 

Really? Can you please pass me a download link so I can test that out, because I have my doubts thats exactly how it works. Please give me a link for the Alpha client, I'd love to see.

You dont need a alpha client to understand this, you can read it on the SotA forums. Read up on the developer information.

What is really funny is to see selfproclaimed hardcore PvP players accepting this abuse of PvP system. They are no real hardcore PvP players and the game will lack players like me when it goes live.

I dont play PvP games that is based on luck and without skills.

They should have gone for a system like old Ultima Online had - the so far more skillbased magic system seen in any MMO. Some without any knowledge of that system claim it was fast just fast button pressure but that is very far from the truth. You had to time every button pressure exactly to get the spell effect you wanted and you had to outsmart your opponent.

SotA magic system seems to be one of the worst ever created.

 

Oh ok, I thought you were actually on to something there for a moment, but without being able to see how it plays it is useless for me to judge. I'd need to play it.

I'm sure after we test it, if we don't like it, they will have a backup plan. I remember that being said somewhere.

Not being able to choose which spell to cast but instead have to choose the ones the game choose for you remove much of the skills you as a player can develop ingame. Your hands will be tied behind your back.

If you want to heal your friend in a teamfight and the heal spell isnt available then i think that speak for itself. Such a magic system i dont have to try to be able to understand it. 

It will be a game of luck and little playerskills. A dumbed down system to please players with little PvP experience. 

 

You are not representing the system from a neutral point of view, the game does not choose cards for you. There isn't anything I can say to a bias person who wishes to poison this forum with their unfounded views however, so good luck to you.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  10/27/13 5:28:11 AM#19
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by iridescence

If it's like old D&D I'm fine with it. I pictured something luck based like Magic the Gathering where you can only cast your spell if it happens to come up in your "hand". That's what I don't want. If I know a spell, I should be able to just have it available without some stupid random system involved.

 

You will only be able to choose the card (spell) the game have choosen for you, not the spell that you actually wanted to cast.

It is a system created to please the players with little experience with PvP, see it as a way to dumb down PvP, make it less skill demanding.

 

Really? Can you please pass me a download link so I can test that out, because I have my doubts thats exactly how it works. Please give me a link for the Alpha client, I'd love to see.

You dont need a alpha client to understand this, you can read it on the SotA forums. Read up on the developer information.

What is really funny is to see selfproclaimed hardcore PvP players accepting this abuse of PvP system. They are no real hardcore PvP players and the game will lack players like me when it goes live.

I dont play PvP games that is based on luck and without skills.

They should have gone for a system like old Ultima Online had - the so far more skillbased magic system seen in any MMO. Some without any knowledge of that system claim it was fast just fast button pressure but that is very far from the truth. You had to time every button pressure exactly to get the spell effect you wanted and you had to outsmart your opponent.

SotA magic system seems to be one of the worst ever created.

 

Oh ok, I thought you were actually on to something there for a moment, but without being able to see how it plays it is useless for me to judge. I'd need to play it.

I'm sure after we test it, if we don't like it, they will have a backup plan. I remember that being said somewhere.

Not being able to choose which spell to cast but instead have to choose the ones the game choose for you remove much of the skills you as a player can develop ingame. Your hands will be tied behind your back.

If you want to heal your friend in a teamfight and the heal spell isnt available then i think that speak for itself. Such a magic system i dont have to try to be able to understand it. 

It will be a game of luck and little playerskills. A dumbed down system to please players with little PvP experience. 

 

You are not representing the system from a neutral point of view, the game does not choose cards for you. There isn't anything I can say to a bias person who wishes to poison this forum with their unfounded views however, so good luck to you.

I am describing the magic system as far as we know.

The game choose the spell not the player. Spells are randomly picked by the game. A heal that is needed to heal my friend in a teamfight might not be available when i need to cast it on him.

This is what the developers told us so it is actually very accurate.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

 
OP  11/01/13 2:43:15 PM#20

Here it is on video and it  seem just as bad as i thought it would -

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/10/31/shroud-of-the-avatar-developer-commentary

PvP demonstration starts at 16:30 and it looks like the game is playing you not the other way arround. I would look more at the cards then the actual combat situation, what a fiasco of a combat system. Richard Garriott was part of making the best PvP system ever with UO and now he makes card games, what have come of the world?

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