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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » New housing decoration video

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29 posts found
  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  9/21/13 3:38:42 AM#1

This makes me even more worried about the "pay to win" housing system.

Housing will definitely be a major part of this game, notably for crafting.

My computer is better than yours.

  Bigmamajama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 206

9/21/13 9:30:56 AM#2

All of this can be yours for a minimum entry price of 550 dollars US for the "Citizen" kickstarter plan.  Remember kids there are only a limited number of housing spots all sure to be sold out before the games launches.   Hurry now and purchase your in-game home while the 550 dollar citizen package is still available once it "sold out" you will be forced to purchase the 570 dollar "Edelmann" package" and on and on and on.

 

Another option to buy a home would be waiting until after launch when people that spent 500 to a thousand dollars to get a home day one will go wtf did I do and try to get some of their money back using a 3rd party RMT site to sell there house for a loss, or Christ who knows, for a gain?

Either option seems less than optimal.

No one will be selling their in-game homes or castles for in game currency, that you can be sure of.  Unless Garrott sets up his own RMT cash shop in the game there will have to be a second economy that exists outside the game in order for anything like a home to be sold.   That is the problem you create when you sell off stuff like this before launch.

Either way games that blur the line like this financially have no interest to me.  This is not why I play computer games.

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 693

9/22/13 12:33:25 AM#3
Originally posted by Bigmamajama

All of this can be yours for a minimum entry price of 550 dollars US for the "Citizen" kickstarter plan.  Remember kids there are only a limited number of housing spots all sure to be sold out before the games launches.   Hurry now and purchase your in-game home while the 550 dollar citizen package is still available once it "sold out" you will be forced to purchase the 570 dollar "Edelmann" package" and on and on and on.

 

Another option to buy a home would be waiting until after launch when people that spent 500 to a thousand dollars to get a home day one will go wtf did I do and try to get some of their money back using a 3rd party RMT site to sell there house for a loss, or Christ who knows, for a gain?

Either option seems less than optimal.

No one will be selling their in-game homes or castles for in game currency, that you can be sure of.  Unless Garrott sets up his own RMT cash shop in the game there will have to be a second economy that exists outside the game in order for anything like a home to be sold.   That is the problem you create when you sell off stuff like this before launch.

Either way games that blur the line like this financially have no interest to me.  This is not why I play computer games.

 

This is a large misconception that many unfortunately have.

What you are paying for at citizen level is a GUARANTEED property that is TAX-EXEMPT. Don't believe me? Read the description:

 

CITIZEN =============================

Stake your claim! Gain a Rent Free Village Level House Deed that you can pick up and place on any open Village lot in the game. This Village House proudly displays a special Founder Level plaque for all to see.

 

Once game launches, you will still be able to get a house by buying a deed (which is going for $150 now but will be $200 at launch). You would have to pay taxes on this though. We don't know yet if you can acquire a house with in-game currency but it's possible.

 

It's really not as bad as people are making it out to be...

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1880

May the game be ever in your favor.

9/22/13 12:42:46 AM#4
Originally posted by superconducting
Originally posted by Bigmamajama

All of this can be yours for a minimum entry price of 550 dollars US for the "Citizen" kickstarter plan.  Remember kids there are only a limited number of housing spots all sure to be sold out before the games launches.   Hurry now and purchase your in-game home while the 550 dollar citizen package is still available once it "sold out" you will be forced to purchase the 570 dollar "Edelmann" package" and on and on and on.

 

Another option to buy a home would be waiting until after launch when people that spent 500 to a thousand dollars to get a home day one will go wtf did I do and try to get some of their money back using a 3rd party RMT site to sell there house for a loss, or Christ who knows, for a gain?

Either option seems less than optimal.

No one will be selling their in-game homes or castles for in game currency, that you can be sure of.  Unless Garrott sets up his own RMT cash shop in the game there will have to be a second economy that exists outside the game in order for anything like a home to be sold.   That is the problem you create when you sell off stuff like this before launch.

Either way games that blur the line like this financially have no interest to me.  This is not why I play computer games.

 

This is a large misconception that many unfortunately have.

What you are paying for at citizen level is a GUARANTEED property that is TAX-EXEMPT. Don't believe me? Read the description:

 

CITIZEN =============================

Stake your claim! Gain a Rent Free Village Level House Deed that you can pick up and place on any open Village lot in the game. This Village House proudly displays a special Founder Level plaque for all to see.

 

Once game launches, you will still be able to get a house by buying a deed (which is going for $150 now but will be $200 at launch). You would have to pay taxes on this though. We don't know yet if you can acquire a house with in-game currency but it's possible.

 

It's really not as bad as people are making it out to be...

It isn't? Because your description of it sounds horrible to me...

Smile

  atuerstar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 240

9/22/13 12:46:57 AM#5

200 dollars for a virtual house is stupid, gross, and insultingly greedy.

 

The fact that anyone is supporting this is proof of the extent of human stupidity, nothing more.

  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

9/22/13 12:56:39 AM#6
Originally posted by superconducting
Originally posted by Bigmamajama

All of this can be yours for a minimum entry price of 550 dollars US for the "Citizen" kickstarter plan.  Remember kids there are only a limited number of housing spots all sure to be sold out before the games launches.   Hurry now and purchase your in-game home while the 550 dollar citizen package is still available once it "sold out" you will be forced to purchase the 570 dollar "Edelmann" package" and on and on and on.

 

Another option to buy a home would be waiting until after launch when people that spent 500 to a thousand dollars to get a home day one will go wtf did I do and try to get some of their money back using a 3rd party RMT site to sell there house for a loss, or Christ who knows, for a gain?

Either option seems less than optimal.

No one will be selling their in-game homes or castles for in game currency, that you can be sure of.  Unless Garrott sets up his own RMT cash shop in the game there will have to be a second economy that exists outside the game in order for anything like a home to be sold.   That is the problem you create when you sell off stuff like this before launch.

Either way games that blur the line like this financially have no interest to me.  This is not why I play computer games.

 

This is a large misconception that many unfortunately have.

What you are paying for at citizen level is a GUARANTEED property that is TAX-EXEMPT. Don't believe me? Read the description:

 

CITIZEN =============================

Stake your claim! Gain a Rent Free Village Level House Deed that you can pick up and place on any open Village lot in the game. This Village House proudly displays a special Founder Level plaque for all to see.

 

Once game launches, you will still be able to get a house by buying a deed (which is going for $150 now but will be $200 at launch). You would have to pay taxes on this though. We don't know yet if you can acquire a house with in-game currency but it's possible.

 

It's really not as bad as people are making it out to be...

$200 for a deed at launch vs. $500 before-hand?  Ummm, yeah, it's every bit as bad as people are making it out to be.  I laugh at people that shell out $200 for collector's editions of MMOs before they even launch.  This is even more absurd.  

Richard Garriot should have stayed in space.

 

 

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 693

9/22/13 1:24:29 AM#7

When did I say $200 was cheap?? It's cheaper than $500, but it's still not cheap. Which is why I'm not buying a house myself-- I can't justify to myself spending that much on a virtual space.

My point is that there's a few folks who seem to be blowing this way out of proportion and making incorrect assumptions.

They seem to think that you need a small fortune to own a house. Yes it's not cheap but you do NOT need the fortune people thought you did either, as I said.

Then they think that owning a house automatically makes you a better player than another player. I'm here to tell you it does not. You can read my other post as to why. It may make things a little easier, but it simply does not make you a better player. You may disagree but that's fine.

Then they seem to be spreading slanderous statements about the game and its creator when they don't have all the facts and certainly don't know how things will be at launch. Making false accusations like "Richard Garriott is a crook" etc etc. When in fact, all I have seen is the man continuously putting himself out there, giving regular updates, getting involved with the fans, listening to feedback, thanking and re-thanking the community for their efforts. What more could you ask for?

Then they for some odd reason think this whole housing situation defines the entire game... as if you can't enjoy things because you don't own a house. Even a 2 yr old could see that the game is so much more than that.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  9/22/13 5:09:24 AM#8

I love people who tell others what they enjoy in games.

Housing is an major part of a sandbox game to me. If I have to fork out $200 of real cash for one, I just won't play. And apparently, I'm far from being the only one. On this forum here it looks like we actually are the majority.

Several reasons why I don't pay even just $150 for a virtual property:

1) the greed. I don't want to support a game based on such a model. If a game is built on that model, I hope it will fail (and I believe it will).

2) the fact that I like to gain my in game stuff in game. You know, playing the game. I'm waiting to see if you will be able to also buy a deed with in game gold.

I don't mind supporting a game. If this game is good, I don't mind regularly paying for it. But $150+ upfront just for a house deed? No way. I won't support such a model.

My computer is better than yours.

  Aragon100

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2199

9/22/13 5:17:54 AM#9
Originally posted by superconducting

When did I say $200 was cheap?? It's cheaper than $500, but it's still not cheap. Which is why I'm not buying a house myself-- I can't justify to myself spending that much on a virtual space.

My point is that there's a few folks who seem to be blowing this way out of proportion and making incorrect assumptions.

They seem to think that you need a small fortune to own a house. Yes it's not cheap but you do NOT need the fortune people thought you did either, as I said.

Then they think that owning a house automatically makes you a better player than another player. I'm here to tell you it does not. You can read my other post as to why. It may make things a little easier, but it simply does not make you a better player. You may disagree but that's fine.

Then they seem to be spreading slanderous statements about the game and its creator when they don't have all the facts and certainly don't know how things will be at launch. Making false accusations like "Richard Garriott is a crook" etc etc. When in fact, all I have seen is the man continuously putting himself out there, giving regular updates, getting involved with the fans, listening to feedback, thanking and re-thanking the community for their efforts. What more could you ask for?

Then they for some odd reason think this whole housing situation defines the entire game... as if you can't enjoy things because you don't own a house. Even a 2 yr old could see that the game is so much more than that.

It is just as bad as people say.

Not ever being able to get a house in a want to be deep RPG game is ridicolous. I enjoyed house decoration in UO and that is something i never will be able to do in this game. I wont have my vendor outside my house, i have to use a public vendor that cost alot more then the house vendor so being a crafter without a house will be more expensive and therefor hard to compete with the houseowners vendors.

It will be a biased economy from start where house owners have the upper hand.

  Swedish_Chef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/13
Posts: 225

Bort bort bort!

9/22/13 5:29:02 AM#10
Originally posted by superconducting

When did I say $200 was cheap?? It's cheaper than $500, but it's still not cheap. Which is why I'm not buying a house myself-- I can't justify to myself spending that much on a virtual space.

My point is that there's a few folks who seem to be blowing this way out of proportion and making incorrect assumptions.

They seem to think that you need a small fortune to own a house. Yes it's not cheap but you do NOT need the fortune people thought you did either, as I said.

Then they think that owning a house automatically makes you a better player than another player. I'm here to tell you it does not. You can read my other post as to why. It may make things a little easier, but it simply does not make you a better player. You may disagree but that's fine.

Then they seem to be spreading slanderous statements about the game and its creator when they don't have all the facts and certainly don't know how things will be at launch. Making false accusations like "Richard Garriott is a crook" etc etc. When in fact, all I have seen is the man continuously putting himself out there, giving regular updates, getting involved with the fans, listening to feedback, thanking and re-thanking the community for their efforts. What more could you ask for?

Then they for some odd reason think this whole housing situation defines the entire game... as if you can't enjoy things because you don't own a house. Even a 2 yr old could see that the game is so much more than that.

Housing was advertised as a core feature of the goddamn game. Furthermore in a game like this, housing is important to a lot of people, and adds a ton of benefits.

Having the absolute nerve to take people's money, then turn around and screw them out of a CORE GAME FEATURE unless they're willing to pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of that is pure greed, and reeks of extortion. Even a 2 year old could see that.

Richard Garriott is a crook. He is a cheat and a liar, and took people's money under false pretenses. Maybe you're fine dealing with a thief but I don't do business with those types of people, and in fact try to warn others away from doing so.

This video is nothing more than a commercial for his digital real estate cash grab.

Oh and while $200 may not be much to some people, it's a fortune to others. Heck, even to the average middle class family it's no amount to sneeze at. That's almost two fill-ups of my truck's 36 gallon tank, for example. Or a couple of college books. Or 4 brand new PC games...

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  9/22/13 6:54:17 AM#11
Originally posted by superconducting

Then they think that owning a house automatically makes you a better player than another player. I'm here to tell you it does not. You can read my other post as to why. It may make things a little easier, but it simply does not make you a better player. You may disagree but that's fine.

There are many benefits to being a property owner in SotA, including:

  • Having a permanent residence, a place to put down roots, to hang your helmet, to decorate to your taste, to invite your friends over to hang out.
  • Provides a location for you to have a vendor to sell your wares.
  • Provides a location to set up private crafting stations, saving you the trouble of visiting public crafting stations to produce your wares.
  • Plant your own gardens to grow whatever you need.
  • Dramatically increases your storage space. Your house can be filled with decorations, and you can place chests at your house to expand your player inventory.
4 out of the 5 points give you an advantage ranking from good to major (storage space). So yes, owning a house makes you a better player. A new take on "pay to win", which makes the others look tame in comparison.
 
What I also dislike is this pressure to make you buy now. $150 now, $200 later! Yeah... For a game that is yet still in alpha! As long as gullible people will continue falling for such tricks, developers will keep on scamming us to pay for unfinished products.

My computer is better than yours.

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 693

9/22/13 8:13:09 AM#12
Originally posted by Swedish_Chef
Originally posted by superconducting

When did I say $200 was cheap?? It's cheaper than $500, but it's still not cheap. Which is why I'm not buying a house myself-- I can't justify to myself spending that much on a virtual space.

My point is that there's a few folks who seem to be blowing this way out of proportion and making incorrect assumptions.

They seem to think that you need a small fortune to own a house. Yes it's not cheap but you do NOT need the fortune people thought you did either, as I said.

Then they think that owning a house automatically makes you a better player than another player. I'm here to tell you it does not. You can read my other post as to why. It may make things a little easier, but it simply does not make you a better player. You may disagree but that's fine.

Then they seem to be spreading slanderous statements about the game and its creator when they don't have all the facts and certainly don't know how things will be at launch. Making false accusations like "Richard Garriott is a crook" etc etc. When in fact, all I have seen is the man continuously putting himself out there, giving regular updates, getting involved with the fans, listening to feedback, thanking and re-thanking the community for their efforts. What more could you ask for?

Then they for some odd reason think this whole housing situation defines the entire game... as if you can't enjoy things because you don't own a house. Even a 2 yr old could see that the game is so much more than that.

Housing was advertised as a core feature of the goddamn game. Furthermore in a game like this, housing is important to a lot of people, and adds a ton of benefits.

Having the absolute nerve to take people's money, then turn around and screw them out of a CORE GAME FEATURE unless they're willing to pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of that is pure greed, and reeks of extortion. Even a 2 year old could see that.

Richard Garriott is a crook. He is a cheat and a liar, and took people's money under false pretenses. Maybe you're fine dealing with a thief but I don't do business with those types of people, and in fact try to warn others away from doing so.

This video is nothing more than a commercial for his digital real estate cash grab.

Oh and while $200 may not be much to some people, it's a fortune to others. Heck, even to the average middle class family it's no amount to sneeze at. That's almost two fill-ups of my truck's 36 gallon tank, for example. Or a couple of college books. Or 4 brand new PC games...

Don't waste you're breath warning me then. I just hope you have the decency to quit all the whining and malicious statements I've seen by you recently. RG is none of those things. I'm sad the game allowed you to even become a backer. You're obviously not happy you didn't get your money back, so now you feel it's necessary to bash the game in any way you can. I can see right through it. And let me just say, Don't try and ruin the game for the rest of us. I've been looking forward for this mmorpg for a long time, avidly following with great interest, and I'm not about to let someone like you shit all over it.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  9/22/13 8:32:03 AM#13
Originally posted by superconducting

Don't waste you're breath warning me then. I just hope you have the decency to quit all the whining and malicious statements I've seen by you recently. RG is none of those things. I'm sad the game allowed you to even become a backer. You're obviously not happy you didn't get your money back, so now you feel it's necessary to bash the game in any way you can. I can see right through it. And let me just say, Don't try and ruin the game for the rest of us. I've been looking forward for this mmorpg for a long time, avidly following with great interest, and I'm not about to let someone like you shit all over it.

That's going to be interesting. As long as we respect the forum rules, we have the right to our opinions just as you.

I for one will do as usual: once the game is out, if it doesn't fit me, I will stop posting on its forum. But until then, expect to see me here, voicing both my agreements and my disagreements, like it or not.

I like what they do with housing, decoration, etc..., I dislike the "pay a LOT to win a house" ideology. And whatever you say won't change that.

My computer is better than yours.

  Naral

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 750

9/22/13 9:19:09 AM#14

Mixing the whole "paying for virutal real estate with real money" thing from Second Life is an immediate non starter for me. I want to buy a game, pay a sub if I have to, but then get to enjoy the game without having to keep paying over and over and over again, especially when the amounts are this high.

All of these alternate pricing models are driving me crazy. I don't know where the average will end up, but I am very glad there are a couple of AAA titles coming out that are sub based. Maybe they will suck, maybe they won't, but I know paying even $50 for virtual real estate is too much for this guy.

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 693

9/22/13 4:55:47 PM#15
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

I for one will do as usual: once the game is out, if it doesn't fit me, I will stop posting on its forum. But until then, expect to see me here, voicing both my agreements and my disagreements, like it or not.

I like what they do with housing, decoration, etc..., I dislike the "pay a LOT to win a house" ideology. And whatever you say won't change that.

And that's fine- I totally respect that. I take no issue with what you said.

 

There are, however, a select few here who feel the need to engage in some sort of personal vendetta against RG and his company. Their hatred likely stems from unhappiness they couldn't get refunded. As a result, they feel it's necessary to slander the game in any way they can, occasionally calling it "warning others" to justify the action.

That, I do take issue with.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  9/22/13 5:52:47 PM#16

Are you an employee of RG? Otherwise, that blind defense doesn't make sense.

I like the guy, I've played all his games. Every single one since Ultima I. I admire what he has achieved.

BUT!

That doesn't mean that people don't change, and I'm sorry, but that housing thing is in my opinion an "asshat" move which reeks greed, and which also could become a bad precedent for the genre if it works (which I doubt).

Remains to be seen how housing will work finally, and if we will be able to acquire a plot in game after release, but for now I'm definitely not impressed for now... and I see many flaws with the limited number of houses too (like gold farmers, who are going to love that).

My computer is better than yours.

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 693

9/22/13 6:06:15 PM#17
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

Are you an employee of RG? Otherwise, that blind defense doesn't make sense.

 

Uhhh... No. I'm a low-level backer who just doesn't think it's right to blatantly attack RG's reputation like that.

But what are you trying to say-- you actually agree with those statements "Richard Garriott is a crook. He is a cheat and a liar." ?

This sounds totally like someone who's upset they could not get refunded. NOT someone who's unbiased and rational.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  9/22/13 6:14:36 PM#18

I don't think he's a liar - the housing system was clear since early during the kickstarter campaign, and that's why I canceled by donation once I knew what it was all about, before the end of that campaign, and therefore my account never got debited.

There was plenty of time to cancel once one understood how the limited housing would work.

I still think that model is dangerous for the genre if it works in the actual form - which I doubt. If it remains like this, the game will tank. Once new and actual players realize they will never own a house, many will leave.

As I said, I wait to see how in game acquisition will work, but from what another developer said (don't remember the name right now), they may plan to auction the remaining deeds. Which means only those who play 16 hours a day will get one of the remaining houses (which will include gold farmers who will resell the deeds for real money). Unless he meant auction for real life money, which is even worse.

Sorry, the whole system smells worse than a sewer during a hot midsummer day.

My computer is better than yours.

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 693

9/22/13 6:29:01 PM#19
I hear ya, believe me. I'm not exactly enthused about the whole exorbitantly-priced housing situation either. I would like to own a house but lack of funds prevents me from doing just that. But it doesn't bother me a whole lot since I know there's still a ton of other things to look forward to... and probably a good chance I can obtain property for less in the future.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  9/22/13 6:31:52 PM#20
Originally posted by superconducting
I hear ya, believe me. I'm not exactly enthused about the whole exorbitantly-priced housing situation either. I would like to own a house but lack of funds prevents me from doing just that. But it doesn't bother me a whole lot since I know there's still a ton of other things to look forward to... and probably a good chance I can obtain property for less in the future.

If the housing is limited, unless you can afford playing 12+ hours a day at release to grind what is required to buy a deed... that's definitely not sure. There will be a rush, and only the most "hardcore" and the gold farmers will get a deed.

My computer is better than yours.

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