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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » If it doesn't have player looting and stealing, the game will fail.

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295 posts found
  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1125

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

6/17/13 5:16:35 PM#41

 

To do this in any known way currently would be to doom a game to a Niche community.

 

This is why Camelot Unchained flat out said they will be a Niche game.

 

With that said, it depends on how the game is made and what differences there are that made the alarming failure rate that other games that tried to do this has.

 

Not to mention that this will be a B2P game, so that means many more people who would grief and chase away others as they won't have to pay a subscription just to get their enjoyment out of making another person miserable for the day.

 

Ultimately if they want to go beyond their five planned expansions, this at it's core would probably be the worst decision (or maybe the best, depending on how they treat crafting and if you are able to gather resources like in UO).  Though they have mentioned something about having specific areas where you can gank, while having said areas contain something that most all players would want to get to encourage the risk of going there.

 

But then again, no one would go there by themselves and it will be a case of a guild going there to get it once a week or so, and just tearing up any potential ganker who wants to try and take out a low level.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Maric

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 64

http://paganrites.wordpress.com/

7/12/13 1:25:50 PM#42
Roguey antics are confirmed for SotA. How hardcore remains to be seen.

The beauty of SotA is if you don't want to deal with griefing, then play offline or play with friends only. The game gives you many choices in who you choose to share the world with.
  User Deleted
7/17/13 3:04:58 AM#43
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

Do you realize that Ultima Online was losing subscribers before the introduction of Trammel?

It was Trammel that saved the game and made it even more of a success.

 

Ultima Online didn't peak until 2 YEARS AFTER TRAMMEL. The population almost doubled because of Trammel.

 

I know it is because of Trammel, because the game was losing a ton of subscribers due to the griefing. I remember reading about the dev's decisions to introduce Trammel, how the majority of players loved it, and the dev talking about how it stopped the dramatic loss of subs and reversed it to a very large gain in subscribers.

 

 

There is a difference between, "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, it will fail and go bankrupt." and "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, I personally will not like it."

The latter is true, but the former is the opposite of true.

  Komandor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 260

 
OP  7/23/13 2:41:07 PM#44
Originally posted by Disatisfied9
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

Do you realize that Ultima Online was losing subscribers before the introduction of Trammel?

It was Trammel that saved the game and made it even more of a success.

 

Ultima Online didn't peak until 2 YEARS AFTER TRAMMEL. The population almost doubled because of Trammel.

 

I know it is because of Trammel, because the game was losing a ton of subscribers due to the griefing. I remember reading about the dev's decisions to introduce Trammel, how the majority of players loved it, and the dev talking about how it stopped the dramatic loss of subs and reversed it to a very large gain in subscribers.

 

 

There is a difference between, "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, it will fail and go bankrupt." and "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, I personally will not like it."

The latter is true, but the former is the opposite of true.

UO did not do better after introduction of Trammel. Trammel killed UO. Carebears don't count anyway.

Keep on rockin'!

  ocnozix

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/07
Posts: 5

7/31/13 6:28:31 PM#45
The parent post to this thread is not based on any factual information... Next

-Oc
Yeah, what are you going to do about it?

  Ventlus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 95

8/02/13 5:47:00 PM#46
ehh if it has the looting and i can get killed at level 1 i probably would not play the game. And the "carebearing" thing to call it. If i where to pvp i would like to no my time matters, so i don't have to worry excessibley about losing gear.  If you create a zone for that high risk thats fine, but if its just ffa pvp around the entire globe, it makes it harder for someone that hasn't played one of these games to be interested in them. 
  Bigmamajama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 206

8/02/13 6:13:36 PM#47
Originally posted by VikingGamer
UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.

There was no alternative.  Try again.

  healboot

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 85

8/02/13 6:38:12 PM#48
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by VikingGamer
UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.

There was no alternative.  Try again.

 Yep UO released when there was nothing else even like it and I totally loved the game but there were aholes who found enjoyment in making others miserable because they could. Go figure? that was 1998 a whole new generation of self entitled bafoons has been hatched since then who think games designed for role playing happy folks are supposed be there pvp stomping grounds because that's where they can cause the most grief. Strange times

  utridentu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/12
Posts: 2

8/09/13 10:54:16 PM#49
Tera is going that way, at least on pvp servers there is always a dckhead lv 60 hunting level 11's on lumbertown exit.
  Ventlus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 95

8/09/13 11:05:08 PM#50
Originally posted by stvnkrs10
You guys should really read up on the game before posting. It has been said many times there will be a pvp element for those that want it. the OPO option allows for those in to pvp to only see pvp players and pve players to only see pve players. That way both types get the experience they want in the same world. The way you play the game affects the people you see around you.

that sounds really cool actually :<, i don't like being forced to pvp, i rather do on my terms, since their giving options i'm a bit more willing to try this game 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5492

8/09/13 11:08:42 PM#51
Originally posted by Maric
Roguey antics are confirmed for SotA. How hardcore remains to be seen.

The beauty of SotA is if you don't want to deal with griefing, then play offline or play with friends only. The game gives you many choices in who you choose to share the world with.

Or how about I just won't buy and play it at all.  I'm not interested in playing or paying for a game where the social areas are forced pvp.  I will stick with pve options.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  ThomasN7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6636

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

8/09/13 11:09:58 PM#52
I have a good feeling about this game. I think Garriot will bring back the nostalgia and evolve around that as well. 
  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/14/13 2:09:41 PM#53

I don't really do open-PvP in MMORPGs anymore because after a long time, I realized it's well...stupid.

Almost all open-PvP boils down to one of two scenarios:

1.  You get ganked by someone much higher level/character-skill than you, and you get absolutely destroyed with no chance of victory whatsoever.  Which is frustrating.

or

2.  You gank someone much lower level than you, which gives you no real challenge or satisfaction at all, because you know the other guy never had a chance.

 

So nowadays, I do all my PvP in DOTA2.  Why?  Because I know that from the moment people start picking, both teams are on an even footing.  If we lose, it's almost always traceable to mistakes we made somewhere.  Maybe bad picks, maybe bad strategy, or maybe just plain old mistakes.  But regardless, every game is even, every win is rewarding and even losses can be fun.

Compared to this, PvP in MMORPG just seems empty to me.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

8/14/13 2:16:26 PM#54


Originally posted by stvnkrs10
You guys should really read up on the game before posting. It has been said many times there will be a pvp element for those that want it. the OPO option allows for those in to pvp to only see pvp players and pve players to only see pve players. That way both types get the experience they want in the same world. The way you play the game affects the people you see around you.


If it's possible to be in a PvE "dimension" of the world, then game's mechanics do not revolve around PvP. The player looting and stealing will be incidental. Certainly not necessary. Something else is going to determine whether or not this game is successful.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Komandor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 260

 
OP  8/25/13 1:56:50 AM#55
Originally posted by lizardbones


Originally posted by stvnkrs10
You guys should really read up on the game before posting. It has been said many times there will be a pvp element for those that want it. the OPO option allows for those in to pvp to only see pvp players and pve players to only see pve players. That way both types get the experience they want in the same world. The way you play the game affects the people you see around you.


If it's possible to be in a PvE "dimension" of the world, then game's mechanics do not revolve around PvP. The player looting and stealing will be incidental. Certainly not necessary. Something else is going to determine whether or not this game is successful.

 

Right...because we don't have enough of PVE carebaar games already. Devs in clown hat: "ERrrRR, we must make a gamMA, UMMMMM, All other gammes don't have hardcore PVP, LET'S NOT MAKE HARDCooor PVP, too!" Great logic! Nobody has gotten far in life doing what everyone else does.

Keep on rockin'!

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2596

There... are... four... lights!

8/25/13 4:35:20 AM#56

Richard Garriott knows from the past (including his own history) that forcing PvP with looting and stealing on people doesn't work. And we already know that this won't happen in this game, you have dimensions for different play styles. It's possible that FFA PvP players will have a dimension on their own so they can happily gank each other, but it will definitely not be forced on everyone, for the greater good of the whole game.

So all this discussion is moot.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Komandor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 260

 
OP  8/25/13 7:19:11 AM#57
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Richard Garriott knows from the past (including his own history) that forcing PvP with looting and stealing on people doesn't work. And we already know that this won't happen in this game, you have dimensions for different play styles. It's possible that FFA PvP players will have a dimension on their own so they can happily gank each other, but it will definitely not be forced on everyone, for the greater good of the whole game.

So all this discussion is moot.

 

How doesn't it work? Trammel killed UO. Stupidest mistake in history of gaming. What's the problem? PVP with full loot 2hardcor4u?

Keep on rockin'!

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 292

8/25/13 7:29:58 AM#58
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

And here we go again....

A new game is announced and PvP'ers start demanding that PvP be the primary focus.  If the game does not have <insert any particular PvP'ers demand here> then the game will totally fail.

 

If people are so into PvP then join the military and get your fill of it.  Once you experience it first hand you just may not be so eager to see it in your games.

 

Ratero.

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 292

8/25/13 7:35:25 AM#59
Originally posted by olepi

You can have both. Put some really valuable resources in a PvP zone, and let those who want to get those resources take the risk of getting ganked.

But also provide lots of game area where you can't be ganked, so noobies get to play until the feel like PvP'ing, without the worry of getting ganked.

Any game where the whole game world is open PvP with looting, will always have a very small population.

And you wonder why PvE'er crafters don't care to play games with forced PvP content?  Why should ANYTHING of value be in a PvP zone?

 

Ratero.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2596

There... are... four... lights!

8/25/13 7:37:46 AM#60
Originally posted by Komandor
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Richard Garriott knows from the past (including his own history) that forcing PvP with looting and stealing on people doesn't work. And we already know that this won't happen in this game, you have dimensions for different play styles. It's possible that FFA PvP players will have a dimension on their own so they can happily gank each other, but it will definitely not be forced on everyone, for the greater good of the whole game.

So all this discussion is moot.

 

How doesn't it work? Trammel killed UO. Stupidest mistake in history of gaming. What's the problem?

Trammel saved UO. UO's population peaked in 2003, 3 years after Trammel was released in 2000.

PVP with full loot 2hardcor4u?

I was in UO early beta doing "FFA PvP with full loot" 17+ years ago - and according to the age on your profile, at that time you were 12 years old and I doubt you could afford a back then very expensive Internet access - so that's not the question. And people bragging they are "hardcore" because they play a specific type of video game are always amusing me. Specially when they try to look even more "hardcore" by using "leet speech", which makes me think more of a teenager trying to sound cool than of a "hardcore" veteran...

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

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