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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » If it doesn't have player looting and stealing, the game will fail.

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295 posts found
  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

10/29/13 5:47:35 PM#241
Originally posted by The1ceQueen
Originally posted by Holophonist

Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.

That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.

No way, making UO into a WoW clone was what really removed players from the game. Just about all that played felucca ended their subscriptions.

So you see, it was actually making UO a themepark game that destroyed it, not full loot or stealing.

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

10/29/13 5:50:24 PM#242


Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.


May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players.
Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players.
Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS.
2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO.

Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old.

If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP.

**

Sources:
MMODATA.net
Ultima Online Wikipedia Page

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

10/29/13 5:56:42 PM#243
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by Hariken
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

Your way or the highway right? Why aren't all you hardcore players playing Eve? I get a kick out of these kind of post. Game companies want to make money. Your type of game fails at that. But you do have Eve. Although Eve been around for more than 10 years and has never broke 500k subs. Be thankful that CCP is a small company and its one game is still around. I do wish someone would have the guts to make the game you guys want. Then we would see less post like this or maybe not. You guys seem to get bored of the game after 2 or 3 months and start posting again.

There have been games that the "hardcore pvp" crowd claims to want. They crash and burn almost instantly. Also, there have been pvp servers in games that always turn into ghost towns. Hell, even DAoC's pvp servers turned into a laughingstock of idiots camping trainers to kill newly rolled level 20s. Yup, that's pretty damn hardcore.

 

Its very hard to take these guys seriously. To me it just seems like they want to rape newly rolled, or lesser geared toons. There are a lot of games out there with competitive pvp. There aren't too many that let you roam around knocking off lowbies. When I see this kind of thread all I see is "Please turn this game into a mindless gankfest."

UO PvP was never about ganking new players, PK:ing was, but that is something else. Unexperienced players dont see the difference btw PK:s and PvP players.

PvP is fighting about equally developed characters and full loot is the reward for being the better man.

Skills mattered in UO and were still waiting for a game as skill demanding as UO was. SotA with it card magic system will definetly not be a competitor to that crown.

 

 

 

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

10/29/13 5:58:00 PM#244
LOL

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

10/29/13 6:02:35 PM#245
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.


May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players.
Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players.
Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS.
2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO.

Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old.

If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP.

**

Sources:
MMODATA.net
Ultima Online Wikipedia Page

 

Players used to the old skillsystem and features tried AoS out for some months, i did, and then we left the game in drowes.

Felucca just about ended to exist some months after AoS.

That was the main reason why UO lost so many subscribers after Age of Shadows. Destroying UO by making it a WoW clone wasnt that smart. Felucca oldschool players left the game.

  karat76

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 1011

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

10/29/13 6:06:30 PM#246
For me the constant ganking on UO was more than enough reason to leave. At the time I was working at a state prison and I felt like I went from dealing with real life psychos to their more sadistic brothers who had not been caught yet playing out their fantasies online.
  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1104

10/29/13 6:06:47 PM#247
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by Hariken
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

Your way or the highway right? Why aren't all you hardcore players playing Eve? I get a kick out of these kind of post. Game companies want to make money. Your type of game fails at that. But you do have Eve. Although Eve been around for more than 10 years and has never broke 500k subs. Be thankful that CCP is a small company and its one game is still around. I do wish someone would have the guts to make the game you guys want. Then we would see less post like this or maybe not. You guys seem to get bored of the game after 2 or 3 months and start posting again.

There have been games that the "hardcore pvp" crowd claims to want. They crash and burn almost instantly. Also, there have been pvp servers in games that always turn into ghost towns. Hell, even DAoC's pvp servers turned into a laughingstock of idiots camping trainers to kill newly rolled level 20s. Yup, that's pretty damn hardcore.

 

Its very hard to take these guys seriously. To me it just seems like they want to rape newly rolled, or lesser geared toons. There are a lot of games out there with competitive pvp. There aren't too many that let you roam around knocking off lowbies. When I see this kind of thread all I see is "Please turn this game into a mindless gankfest."

UO PvP was never about ganking new players, PK:ing was, but that is something else. Unexperienced players dont see the difference btw PK:s and PvP players.

PvP is fighting about equally developed characters and full loot is the reward for being the better man.

Skills mattered in UO and were still waiting for a game as skill demanding as UO was. SotA with it card magic system will definetly not be a competitor to that crown.

And? I don't see where your going with this. There are a ton of games for competitive PvP players. Not so many for PK/gankers for the mere fact that games that tried to cater to this playstyle failed in terrific and amusing fashion. 

Simply put, the OP is way off, and a lot of people hollering for full loot/stealing just want constant fresh meat to gank. 

I'm all for a fantasy type EVE game. But we all know that's not what the OP wants. EVE is too tough for him.

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2050

10/29/13 6:11:01 PM#248
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.


May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players.
Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players.
Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS.
2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO.

Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old.

If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP.

**

Sources:
MMODATA.net
Ultima Online Wikipedia Page

 

No, it didn't. It only seems like that to somebody who is deliberately ignoring the whole data set. http://i.imgur.com/NmjiA.png

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "boosted stubs steadily for almost three years" but what actually happened is exactly what I said. It boosted subs for about a year, then started to decline. The only thing that stopped that decline was AOS.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

10/29/13 6:21:00 PM#249
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by Hariken
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

Your way or the highway right? Why aren't all you hardcore players playing Eve? I get a kick out of these kind of post. Game companies want to make money. Your type of game fails at that. But you do have Eve. Although Eve been around for more than 10 years and has never broke 500k subs. Be thankful that CCP is a small company and its one game is still around. I do wish someone would have the guts to make the game you guys want. Then we would see less post like this or maybe not. You guys seem to get bored of the game after 2 or 3 months and start posting again.

There have been games that the "hardcore pvp" crowd claims to want. They crash and burn almost instantly. Also, there have been pvp servers in games that always turn into ghost towns. Hell, even DAoC's pvp servers turned into a laughingstock of idiots camping trainers to kill newly rolled level 20s. Yup, that's pretty damn hardcore.

 

Its very hard to take these guys seriously. To me it just seems like they want to rape newly rolled, or lesser geared toons. There are a lot of games out there with competitive pvp. There aren't too many that let you roam around knocking off lowbies. When I see this kind of thread all I see is "Please turn this game into a mindless gankfest."

UO PvP was never about ganking new players, PK:ing was, but that is something else. Unexperienced players dont see the difference btw PK:s and PvP players.

PvP is fighting about equally developed characters and full loot is the reward for being the better man.

Skills mattered in UO and were still waiting for a game as skill demanding as UO was. SotA with it card magic system will definetly not be a competitor to that crown.

And? I don't see where your going with this. There are a ton of games for competitive PvP players. Not so many for PK/gankers for the mere fact that games that tried to cater to this playstyle failed in terrific and amusing fashion. 

Simply put, the OP is way off, and a lot of people hollering for full loot/stealing just want constant fresh meat to gank. 

I'm all for a fantasy type EVE game. But we all know that's not what the OP wants. EVE is too tough for him.

Really? A ton of competitive MMORPG games out there? And how many of these you know of is in a fantasy world like UO?

How many of them have risk vs reward in them? How many have consequences? How many isnt broken indy games?

See what i did there? I removed them to 0.

PvP is not about ganking, it is about competitive PvP. Having risk vs reward and consequences is what the PvE crowd fear the most and thats why they always take up ganking as a defence to such gameplay. Ganking is used by honorless, unskilled players. Having enough hard consequences for being a murderer is a way to lower griefing. Statloss worked pretty well in old UO. They could have made it even harder but instead they implemented trammel and split the population. A very bad move.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

10/29/13 6:23:43 PM#250
Originally posted by karat76
For me the constant ganking on UO was more than enough reason to leave. At the time I was working at a state prison and I felt like I went from dealing with real life psychos to their more sadistic brothers who had not been caught yet playing out their fantasies online.

There was no constant ganking in UO after statloss was introduced to the game.

PK:s were few and they were playing the game very carefully. Dying in heavy statloss was many, many hundreds of hours waiting to resurect.

Did you even play the real UO or some freeshards with little to no statloss?

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2050

10/29/13 7:53:53 PM#251
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by Hariken
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

Your way or the highway right? Why aren't all you hardcore players playing Eve? I get a kick out of these kind of post. Game companies want to make money. Your type of game fails at that. But you do have Eve. Although Eve been around for more than 10 years and has never broke 500k subs. Be thankful that CCP is a small company and its one game is still around. I do wish someone would have the guts to make the game you guys want. Then we would see less post like this or maybe not. You guys seem to get bored of the game after 2 or 3 months and start posting again.

There have been games that the "hardcore pvp" crowd claims to want. They crash and burn almost instantly. Also, there have been pvp servers in games that always turn into ghost towns. Hell, even DAoC's pvp servers turned into a laughingstock of idiots camping trainers to kill newly rolled level 20s. Yup, that's pretty damn hardcore.

 

Its very hard to take these guys seriously. To me it just seems like they want to rape newly rolled, or lesser geared toons. There are a lot of games out there with competitive pvp. There aren't too many that let you roam around knocking off lowbies. When I see this kind of thread all I see is "Please turn this game into a mindless gankfest."

UO PvP was never about ganking new players, PK:ing was, but that is something else. Unexperienced players dont see the difference btw PK:s and PvP players.

PvP is fighting about equally developed characters and full loot is the reward for being the better man.

Skills mattered in UO and were still waiting for a game as skill demanding as UO was. SotA with it card magic system will definetly not be a competitor to that crown.

And? I don't see where your going with this. There are a ton of games for competitive PvP players. Not so many for PK/gankers for the mere fact that games that tried to cater to this playstyle failed in terrific and amusing fashion. 

Simply put, the OP is way off, and a lot of people hollering for full loot/stealing just want constant fresh meat to gank. 

I'm all for a fantasy type EVE game. But we all know that's not what the OP wants. EVE is too tough for him.

It's not about "competitive pvp." When I want competitive pvp, I'll play sc2 or quake. When I want an immersive virtual world with risk/reward, politics, danger, bounties, etc then I'll play UO or (hopefully) future sandbox titles. It frustrates me to no end when people talk about "competitive pvp" in these discussions.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

10/30/13 10:08:07 AM#252
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by Hariken
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

Your way or the highway right? Why aren't all you hardcore players playing Eve? I get a kick out of these kind of post. Game companies want to make money. Your type of game fails at that. But you do have Eve. Although Eve been around for more than 10 years and has never broke 500k subs. Be thankful that CCP is a small company and its one game is still around. I do wish someone would have the guts to make the game you guys want. Then we would see less post like this or maybe not. You guys seem to get bored of the game after 2 or 3 months and start posting again.

There have been games that the "hardcore pvp" crowd claims to want. They crash and burn almost instantly. Also, there have been pvp servers in games that always turn into ghost towns. Hell, even DAoC's pvp servers turned into a laughingstock of idiots camping trainers to kill newly rolled level 20s. Yup, that's pretty damn hardcore.

 

Its very hard to take these guys seriously. To me it just seems like they want to rape newly rolled, or lesser geared toons. There are a lot of games out there with competitive pvp. There aren't too many that let you roam around knocking off lowbies. When I see this kind of thread all I see is "Please turn this game into a mindless gankfest."

UO PvP was never about ganking new players, PK:ing was, but that is something else. Unexperienced players dont see the difference btw PK:s and PvP players.

PvP is fighting about equally developed characters and full loot is the reward for being the better man.

Skills mattered in UO and were still waiting for a game as skill demanding as UO was. SotA with it card magic system will definetly not be a competitor to that crown.

And? I don't see where your going with this. There are a ton of games for competitive PvP players. Not so many for PK/gankers for the mere fact that games that tried to cater to this playstyle failed in terrific and amusing fashion. 

Simply put, the OP is way off, and a lot of people hollering for full loot/stealing just want constant fresh meat to gank. 

I'm all for a fantasy type EVE game. But we all know that's not what the OP wants. EVE is too tough for him.

It's not about "competitive pvp." When I want competitive pvp, I'll play sc2 or quake. When I want an immersive virtual world with risk/reward, politics, danger, bounties, etc then I'll play UO or (hopefully) future sandbox titles. It frustrates me to no end when people talk about "competitive pvp" in these discussions.

Agree. If i only want competitive PvP i play CoD. If i want the whole experience i play MMORPG games. 

  Vannor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2999

10/30/13 10:09:42 AM#253
hmm people need to stop thinking this is going to be another UO.. or even anything like it. It's not even an MMO.
  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

10/30/13 11:06:27 AM#254


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.
May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players. Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players. Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS. 2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO. Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old. If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP. ** Sources: MMODATA.net Ultima Online Wikipedia Page  
Players used to the old skillsystem and features tried AoS out for some months, i did, and then we left the game in drowes.

Felucca just about ended to exist some months after AoS.

That was the main reason why UO lost so many subscribers after Age of Shadows. Destroying UO by making it a WoW clone wasnt that smart. Felucca oldschool players left the game.




"Felucca Old School" players were the minority in Ultima Online. Your personal experiences to the contrary, this was remarked upon and complained about by players as far back as 2001/2002. It's also something that's noted as common knowledge. If there was some reason to think this wasn't the case, someone would have made the case for it in the past decade on talking about it. The game didn't diminish because "Felucca Old School" players left the game, UO diminished because everyone started leaving the game.

**

Sources:
1UP Article on UO
Someone complaining in the SotA forums about Trammel release
More or less the same conversation from 2005 on these forums
Blog from 2005 noting that the population moved to Trammel

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

10/30/13 1:14:42 PM#255
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.
May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players. Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players. Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS. 2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO. Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old. If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP. ** Sources: MMODATA.net Ultima Online Wikipedia Page  
Players used to the old skillsystem and features tried AoS out for some months, i did, and then we left the game in drowes.

 

Felucca just about ended to exist some months after AoS.

That was the main reason why UO lost so many subscribers after Age of Shadows. Destroying UO by making it a WoW clone wasnt that smart. Felucca oldschool players left the game.



 The game didn't diminish because "Felucca Old School" players left the game, UO diminished because everyone started leaving the game.

**

Sources:
1UP Article on UO
Someone complaining in the SotA forums about Trammel release
More or less the same conversation from 2005 on these forums
Blog from 2005 noting that the population moved to Trammel

 

Your wrong. 

Felucca players left the game in drowes and thats why game lost loads subscribers some months after AoS. I was there and i saw just about all old felucca guilds ending their subscriptions. I knew them and thats why i know your dead wrong. 

Thats also the reason why oldschool UO freeshards had an incredible boom in players after AoS. Some had +150000 followers. Thats alot of players, more then the original game had some years after AoS.

Making UO to just another themepark WoW game removed more subscribers then any other change to the game.

 

 

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

11/03/13 12:58:41 AM#256
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.
May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players. Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players. Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS. 2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO. Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old. If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP. ** Sources: MMODATA.net Ultima Online Wikipedia Page  
Players used to the old skillsystem and features tried AoS out for some months, i did, and then we left the game in drowes.

 

Felucca just about ended to exist some months after AoS.

That was the main reason why UO lost so many subscribers after Age of Shadows. Destroying UO by making it a WoW clone wasnt that smart. Felucca oldschool players left the game.



 The game didn't diminish because "Felucca Old School" players left the game, UO diminished because everyone started leaving the game.

**

Sources:
1UP Article on UO
Someone complaining in the SotA forums about Trammel release
More or less the same conversation from 2005 on these forums
Blog from 2005 noting that the population moved to Trammel

 

Your wrong. 

Felucca players left the game in drowes and thats why game lost loads subscribers some months after AoS. I was there and i saw just about all old felucca guilds ending their subscriptions. I knew them and thats why i know your dead wrong. 

Thats also the reason why oldschool UO freeshards had an incredible boom in players after AoS. Some had +150000 followers. Thats alot of players, more then the original game had some years after AoS.

Making UO to just another themepark WoW game removed more subscribers then any other change to the game.

 

 

You are kidding right?

AoS was released and several things happened, most notable was the increase in the cost of game time! What really broke the immersion in UO after AoS for me was the fact that the entire game was suddenly not about skill any longer, it was all about items. So many stupid items, silly colours, all sorts of junk. 

That is what drove players away, not some cranked up false witness PvP junk.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

11/03/13 7:19:55 AM#257
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.
May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players. Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players. Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS. 2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO. Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old. If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP. ** Sources: MMODATA.net Ultima Online Wikipedia Page  
Players used to the old skillsystem and features tried AoS out for some months, i did, and then we left the game in drowes.

 

Felucca just about ended to exist some months after AoS.

That was the main reason why UO lost so many subscribers after Age of Shadows. Destroying UO by making it a WoW clone wasnt that smart. Felucca oldschool players left the game.



 The game didn't diminish because "Felucca Old School" players left the game, UO diminished because everyone started leaving the game.

**

Sources:
1UP Article on UO
Someone complaining in the SotA forums about Trammel release
More or less the same conversation from 2005 on these forums
Blog from 2005 noting that the population moved to Trammel

 

Your wrong. 

Felucca players left the game in drowes and thats why game lost loads subscribers some months after AoS. I was there and i saw just about all old felucca guilds ending their subscriptions. I knew them and thats why i know your dead wrong. 

Thats also the reason why oldschool UO freeshards had an incredible boom in players after AoS. Some had +150000 followers. Thats alot of players, more then the original game had some years after AoS.

Making UO to just another themepark WoW game removed more subscribers then any other change to the game.

 

 

You are kidding right?

AoS was released and several things happened, most notable was the increase in the cost of game time! What really broke the immersion in UO after AoS for me was the fact that the entire game was suddenly not about skill any longer, it was all about items. So many stupid items, silly colours, all sorts of junk. 

That is what drove players away, not some cranked up false witness PvP junk.

Yeah that was what i just said. AoS with it's WoW items, the removal of loot and a new skill system - actually a new game- killed UO. 

Just about all felucca players left the game and that is why subscribers goes down some months after AoS release.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

11/03/13 8:38:14 AM#258
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.
May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players. Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players. Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS. 2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO. Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old. If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP. ** Sources: MMODATA.net Ultima Online Wikipedia Page  
Players used to the old skillsystem and features tried AoS out for some months, i did, and then we left the game in drowes.

 

Felucca just about ended to exist some months after AoS.

That was the main reason why UO lost so many subscribers after Age of Shadows. Destroying UO by making it a WoW clone wasnt that smart. Felucca oldschool players left the game.



 The game didn't diminish because "Felucca Old School" players left the game, UO diminished because everyone started leaving the game.

**

Sources:
1UP Article on UO
Someone complaining in the SotA forums about Trammel release
More or less the same conversation from 2005 on these forums
Blog from 2005 noting that the population moved to Trammel

 

Your wrong. 

Felucca players left the game in drowes and thats why game lost loads subscribers some months after AoS. I was there and i saw just about all old felucca guilds ending their subscriptions. I knew them and thats why i know your dead wrong. 

Thats also the reason why oldschool UO freeshards had an incredible boom in players after AoS. Some had +150000 followers. Thats alot of players, more then the original game had some years after AoS.

Making UO to just another themepark WoW game removed more subscribers then any other change to the game.

 

 

You are kidding right?

AoS was released and several things happened, most notable was the increase in the cost of game time! What really broke the immersion in UO after AoS for me was the fact that the entire game was suddenly not about skill any longer, it was all about items. So many stupid items, silly colours, all sorts of junk. 

That is what drove players away, not some cranked up false witness PvP junk.

Yeah that was what i just said. AoS with it's WoW items, the removal of loot and a new skill system - actually a new game- killed UO. 

Just about all felucca players left the game and that is why subscribers goes down some months after AoS release.

 

Ok, as long as you were not implying it was splitting up the players for Tram/Fel which caused the problems. It was the core changes to the game which were the issues. Not the Tram/Fel thing.

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/03/13 10:08:44 AM#259


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.
May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players. Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players. Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS. 2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO. Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old. If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP. ** Sources: MMODATA.net Ultima Online Wikipedia Page  
Players used to the old skillsystem and features tried AoS out for some months, i did, and then we left the game in drowes.   Felucca just about ended to exist some months after AoS. That was the main reason why UO lost so many subscribers after Age of Shadows. Destroying UO by making it a WoW clone wasnt that smart. Felucca oldschool players left the game.
 The game didn't diminish because "Felucca Old School" players left the game, UO diminished because everyone started leaving the game. ** Sources: 1UP Article on UO Someone complaining in the SotA forums about Trammel release More or less the same conversation from 2005 on these forums Blog from 2005 noting that the population moved to Trammel  
Your wrong. 

Felucca players left the game in drowes and thats why game lost loads subscribers some months after AoS. I was there and i saw just about all old felucca guilds ending their subscriptions. I knew them and thats why i know your dead wrong. 

Thats also the reason why oldschool UO freeshards had an incredible boom in players after AoS. Some had +150000 followers. Thats alot of players, more then the original game had some years after AoS.

Making UO to just another themepark WoW game removed more subscribers then any other change to the game.

 

 




Anything other than your word and the stuff that you saw to support what you're saying? Anything? You are one person. What you saw or experienced isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of thousands of people who played the game.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2260

11/03/13 10:44:00 AM#260
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Originally posted by Holophonist Implemented Trammel boosted subs for about a year. After that the game entered a 6 - 7 year downward spiral that was only temporarily halted after they released AOS, which they probably did because they were bleeding subs after Trammel.
That always happens when a game starts to age, newer Mmo's come out, take subscribers, people move on to the next best thing. Just the way it is.
May 2000 Trammel releases, UO has just under 150k players. Early 2003, UO has just over 200k players. Mid 2003, UO peaks at 250k players, this is just after the release of AoS. 2003 to Present - UO subscribers decline, private servers are created, etc. This can be attributed to many things, including people just not finding anything new in the game, but SWG is probably the main culprit since it offered an alternative to UO. Trammel boosted subs steadily for almost three years. AoS boosted subs for a very short period of time, but it wasn't enough. UO could not compete in a market where games had both full 3D graphics, well known IPs and accommodated players who weren't interested in player killing, looting or thievery. Not to mention UO was just getting old. If the style of PvP is a factor in a game's success, then accommodating players who are interested in PvE and instanced PvP is much more of sales draw over world PvP meaning SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery. If the style of PvP is less of a factor than the game's developer or IP, then SotA doesn't need player killing, looting and thievery; they need a good developer and a decent IP. ** Sources: MMODATA.net Ultima Online Wikipedia Page  
Players used to the old skillsystem and features tried AoS out for some months, i did, and then we left the game in drowes.

 

Felucca just about ended to exist some months after AoS.

That was the main reason why UO lost so many subscribers after Age of Shadows. Destroying UO by making it a WoW clone wasnt that smart. Felucca oldschool players left the game.



 The game didn't diminish because "Felucca Old School" players left the game, UO diminished because everyone started leaving the game.

**

Sources:
1UP Article on UO
Someone complaining in the SotA forums about Trammel release
More or less the same conversation from 2005 on these forums
Blog from 2005 noting that the population moved to Trammel

 

Your wrong. 

Felucca players left the game in drowes and thats why game lost loads subscribers some months after AoS. I was there and i saw just about all old felucca guilds ending their subscriptions. I knew them and thats why i know your dead wrong. 

Thats also the reason why oldschool UO freeshards had an incredible boom in players after AoS. Some had +150000 followers. Thats alot of players, more then the original game had some years after AoS.

Making UO to just another themepark WoW game removed more subscribers then any other change to the game.

 

 

You are kidding right?

AoS was released and several things happened, most notable was the increase in the cost of game time! What really broke the immersion in UO after AoS for me was the fact that the entire game was suddenly not about skill any longer, it was all about items. So many stupid items, silly colours, all sorts of junk. 

That is what drove players away, not some cranked up false witness PvP junk.

Yeah that was what i just said. AoS with it's WoW items, the removal of loot and a new skill system - actually a new game- killed UO. 

Just about all felucca players left the game and that is why subscribers goes down some months after AoS release.

 

Ok, as long as you were not implying it was splitting up the players for Tram/Fel which caused the problems. It was the core changes to the game which were the issues. Not the Tram/Fel thing.

I have no clue where you got that from.

I have never said that trammel was the reason felucca died. Age of Shadows killed UO felucca.

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