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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » If it doesn't have player looting and stealing, the game will fail.

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295 posts found
  iridescence

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

11/08/13 12:54:53 PM#281
Originally posted by Aragon100
 

Griefing is not in the game, PvP is consent only.

Full loot isnt decided yet. I doubt we will see full loot.

Risk vs reward is important in any game and giving better rewards to the ones that take bigger risks is logical..

Consent meaning you have to set your game to allow PvP, right? But once you do it's open season?  I actually agree with you . If PvP is in the game at all it should have some kind of risk/reward attached but I bet the devs would be afraid of PVE players just turning on their PVP flag for the extra loot and then whining and bitching when they got ganked.

 

The high risk/reward thing works well in EVE but that whole game is built around PVP. It isn't just a tacked on thing like in SotA.

 

  Bilgato

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 22

I do all my own artwork with MS Paint.
No, fer reals...why would I lie about something like that?

11/08/13 2:10:46 PM#282
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Bilgato

As some have said, PvP/action is it's own reward. You don't need to incentivize it, those who want to do it will do it, those who don't, won't.Your payment is the suspense and adrenalin you get from being in that environment.

If a place is offered where people can PK, gank, and tea-bag there will be people doing it. Once word gets out via YouTube and people can see that there is a game offering that, they will come.

 

For an example look at WarZ/Infestation, good game and mechanics, but the company is crap and they sell "power" (bullets really only available in the cash shop & night-vision goggles too) so it's totally Pay-To-Win, but they keep people playing with the hard-core PvP and full-loot system.

Once word gets out that SoTA has "Lord of The Flies" mode, people who are into it will start to find out and they will want to get involved, especially if it's not cash-shop Pay 2 Win.

Your wrong.

There need to be rewards like full loot to keep interest up.

Without any reward it is just like playing poker with fake money. Totally uninteresting.

 Wrong?

You mean like in every case, with no exception?

That's a bold statement, friend.

*and I think you think I said something different than what I tried to said...looting is a solid feature (as in the game I mentioned) but not the sole maker or breaker...

 

 

  Bilgato

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 22

I do all my own artwork with MS Paint.
No, fer reals...why would I lie about something like that?

11/08/13 2:23:42 PM#283
Originally posted by iridescence

 

 

 PVE players just turning on their PVP flag for the extra loot and then whining and bitching when they got ganked.

I agree, there's a combination of grasping greed and fear of loss, they wouldn't even like a PvE system where you drop your loot on death and have to go back for it, especially if a mob could take an item/items or another player could come across your corpse before you get back and pick through your stuff.

 

 

 

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9943

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/08/13 3:58:49 PM#284


Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by VikingGamer UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.
UO didn't start getting really popular until Tramel released.  AKA the PvE server.

 

 

Face it folks, FFA PvP is a niche and will never be mega huge.




UO had 150k people just before Trammel released. Trammel's release added another 50k or so people, and then the AoS release added another 50k to 60k people, just before UO's decline started. UO was "really popular" when it released, especially compared to the existing market of MMORPGs.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9943

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/08/13 4:02:30 PM#285


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by Phry Personally, im more than happy to have the PVP be an 'option' where players can choose to either participate, or not, it should not be forced upon them, of course i have no problem with players who choose to participate in the PVP also have full loot options on those they defeat, it keeps them happy, in the meantime the players who prefer to play PVE can do so without restrictions, sounds good to me
If you play the riskier game (PvP) you should have better rewards for doing that.

Taking part in open PvP should give you more and better rescources both from gathering and from killing mobs.

Getting the same rescources in the PvE version of SotA will destroy the incentive to ever gather in open PvP places.

Their need to be carrots if you really want the PvE crowd to enter areas with risk for getting involved in PvP.




That's just it. There is no good reason to entice the PvE crowd into an area of the game that they don't want to go.

If PvP is the draw that you seem to think it is, and if there are as many PvP players as you have been implying, then there's no need to entice the PvE players anywhere. The PvP players will suffice for the PvP aspects of the game to thrive.

Which is it? Either there are more than enough PvP or even 'Hard Core' PvP players to carry the PvP aspects of the game, or there aren't.

If there are enough PvP players, which would support the thread's topic, then it doesn't matter what the PvE players are doing. If there aren't enough PvP players, which would be the only reason to entice the PvE players into areas they don't want to go, then the thread's topic is not supported. Which is it?

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

11/08/13 4:15:11 PM#286
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by Aragon100
 

Griefing is not in the game, PvP is consent only.

Full loot isnt decided yet. I doubt we will see full loot.

Risk vs reward is important in any game and giving better rewards to the ones that take bigger risks is logical..

Consent meaning you have to set your game to allow PvP, right? But once you do it's open season?  I actually agree with you . If PvP is in the game at all it should have some kind of risk/reward attached but I bet the devs would be afraid of PVE players just turning on their PVP flag for the extra loot and then whining and bitching when they got ganked.

 

The high risk/reward thing works well in EVE but that whole game is built around PVP. It isn't just a tacked on thing like in SotA.

 

Yeah thats why i believe we wont see full loot in PvP. Egoistic PvE players with no or little interest in PvP want to have it a soft version of PvP to suit their lameness.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

11/08/13 4:18:31 PM#287
Originally posted by Bilgato
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Bilgato

As some have said, PvP/action is it's own reward. You don't need to incentivize it, those who want to do it will do it, those who don't, won't.Your payment is the suspense and adrenalin you get from being in that environment.

If a place is offered where people can PK, gank, and tea-bag there will be people doing it. Once word gets out via YouTube and people can see that there is a game offering that, they will come.

 

For an example look at WarZ/Infestation, good game and mechanics, but the company is crap and they sell "power" (bullets really only available in the cash shop & night-vision goggles too) so it's totally Pay-To-Win, but they keep people playing with the hard-core PvP and full-loot system.

Once word gets out that SoTA has "Lord of The Flies" mode, people who are into it will start to find out and they will want to get involved, especially if it's not cash-shop Pay 2 Win.

Your wrong.

There need to be rewards like full loot to keep interest up.

Without any reward it is just like playing poker with fake money. Totally uninteresting.

 Wrong?

You mean like in every case, with no exception?

That's a bold statement, friend.

*and I think you think I said something different than what I tried to said...looting is a solid feature (as in the game I mentioned) but not the sole maker or breaker...

 

 

Well to me it is. Thats why i will never play SotA even though i payed for it.

PvE players have the developers ears. SotA developer team and even moderators on their forums do their best to push down any attempt to give the game a hardcore version.

Non-consensual PvP is out of the question and full loot i doubt be in the game cause the most vocal carebears over at SotA claim they will never play a game with full loot.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

11/08/13 4:23:24 PM#288
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by Phry Personally, im more than happy to have the PVP be an 'option' where players can choose to either participate, or not, it should not be forced upon them, of course i have no problem with players who choose to participate in the PVP also have full loot options on those they defeat, it keeps them happy, in the meantime the players who prefer to play PVE can do so without restrictions, sounds good to me
If you play the riskier game (PvP) you should have better rewards for doing that.

 

Taking part in open PvP should give you more and better rescources both from gathering and from killing mobs.

Getting the same rescources in the PvE version of SotA will destroy the incentive to ever gather in open PvP places.

Their need to be carrots if you really want the PvE crowd to enter areas with risk for getting involved in PvP.




That's just it. There is no good reason to entice the PvE crowd into an area of the game that they don't want to go.

If PvP is the draw that you seem to think it is, and if there are as many PvP players as you have been implying, then there's no need to entice the PvE players anywhere. The PvP players will suffice for the PvP aspects of the game to thrive.

Which is it? Either there are more than enough PvP or even 'Hard Core' PvP players to carry the PvP aspects of the game, or there aren't.

If there are enough PvP players, which would support the thread's topic, then it doesn't matter what the PvE players are doing. If there aren't enough PvP players, which would be the only reason to entice the PvE players into areas they don't want to go, then the thread's topic is not supported. Which is it?

 

It's hard to say how many of the pledgers and future players that will get involved in PvP.

But my main point is that players with no or very little PvP interest are doing hard lobbying over at SotA forum to tame the PvP version of SotA. They enter every PvP threads in numbers and spew their hate towards non-consensual PvP and full loot.

They dont want risk vs reward.

They are the ones that will destroy SotA PvP.

  Bilgato

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 22

I do all my own artwork with MS Paint.
No, fer reals...why would I lie about something like that?

11/08/13 7:06:43 PM#289

@Aragon100

You are correct about the "carebear PvEers", the high-end backers do push and use the excuse that everything outside their desire is a waste of coding and dev time, to get what they want and seem to try to ground down anything that they don't want. And even though the 'sliderthingie' would make it so they would never have to PvP or be in any danger they still get their panties in a bunch even knowing it's in "their" game.

A while back some cat over there brought up having an option for Hard-Core/Perma-Death in the single player off-line mode.Now since it was suggested for the Off-Line mode and an "option" how could anyone say No? This would affect nobody but the person who selected it...it would be off-line.

But they did, the "High-Lords" rallied to put down something that would never affect them and (Just like with any 'scarry' PvP options)  that they would never even know was there. They are backseat driving, that's for sure and if Portilarium lets them micro-manage too much they will ruin the game they are shelling out all that cash for...and ruin it for the rest of us too.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

11/08/13 8:20:48 PM#290
Originally posted by Bilgato

@Aragon100

You are correct about the "carebear PvEers", the high-end backers do push and use the excuse that everything outside their desire is a waste of coding and dev time, to get what they want and seem to try to ground down anything that they don't want. And even though the 'sliderthingie' would make it so they would never have to PvP or be in any danger they still get their panties in a bunch even knowing it's in "their" game.

A while back some cat over there brought up having an option for Hard-Core/Perma-Death in the single player off-line mode.Now since it was suggested for the Off-Line mode and an "option" how could anyone say No? This would affect nobody but the person who selected it...it would be off-line.

But they did, the "High-Lords" rallied to put down something that would never affect them and (Just like with any 'scarry' PvP options)  that they would never even know was there. They are backseat driving, that's for sure and if Portilarium lets them micro-manage too much they will ruin the game they are shelling out all that cash for...and ruin it for the rest of us too.

Very well said.

Funniest part is they claim we PvP:ers will have a PvP option in SotA which is true but what they dont say is that it will be a carebear version of PvP. 

A version the carebears will enjoy and noone else.

  Angier2758

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1059

11/08/13 8:28:02 PM#291
Originally posted by VikingGamer
UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.

They really didn't have competition.....

 

Try again indeed.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

11/08/13 9:59:33 PM#292
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Bilgato

@Aragon100

You are correct about the "carebear PvEers", the high-end backers do push and use the excuse that everything outside their desire is a waste of coding and dev time, to get what they want and seem to try to ground down anything that they don't want. And even though the 'sliderthingie' would make it so they would never have to PvP or be in any danger they still get their panties in a bunch even knowing it's in "their" game.

A while back some cat over there brought up having an option for Hard-Core/Perma-Death in the single player off-line mode.Now since it was suggested for the Off-Line mode and an "option" how could anyone say No? This would affect nobody but the person who selected it...it would be off-line.

But they did, the "High-Lords" rallied to put down something that would never affect them and (Just like with any 'scarry' PvP options)  that they would never even know was there. They are backseat driving, that's for sure and if Portilarium lets them micro-manage too much they will ruin the game they are shelling out all that cash for...and ruin it for the rest of us too.

Very well said.

Funniest part is they claim we PvP:ers will have a PvP option in SotA which is true but what they dont say is that it will be a carebear version of PvP. 

A version the carebears will enjoy and noone else.

 

Again, where exactly does it say that PvP will be carebear? This is your opinion, you have totally no idea how it will end up. Put your money where your mouth is and show us proof.

As many, if not more, PvP players are claiming bloody murder must be in the game as there are PvE players not wanting to be PKd.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

11/09/13 5:15:05 AM#293
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by VikingGamer
UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.

They really didn't have competition.....

 

Try again indeed.

And still UO was better then anything that came after.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2167

11/09/13 5:21:25 AM#294
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Bilgato

@Aragon100

You are correct about the "carebear PvEers", the high-end backers do push and use the excuse that everything outside their desire is a waste of coding and dev time, to get what they want and seem to try to ground down anything that they don't want. And even though the 'sliderthingie' would make it so they would never have to PvP or be in any danger they still get their panties in a bunch even knowing it's in "their" game.

A while back some cat over there brought up having an option for Hard-Core/Perma-Death in the single player off-line mode.Now since it was suggested for the Off-Line mode and an "option" how could anyone say No? This would affect nobody but the person who selected it...it would be off-line.

But they did, the "High-Lords" rallied to put down something that would never affect them and (Just like with any 'scarry' PvP options)  that they would never even know was there. They are backseat driving, that's for sure and if Portilarium lets them micro-manage too much they will ruin the game they are shelling out all that cash for...and ruin it for the rest of us too.

Very well said.

Funniest part is they claim we PvP:ers will have a PvP option in SotA which is true but what they dont say is that it will be a carebear version of PvP. 

A version the carebears will enjoy and noone else.

 

Again, where exactly does it say that PvP will be carebear? This is your opinion, you have totally no idea how it will end up. Put your money where your mouth is and show us proof.

As many, if not more, PvP players are claiming bloody murder must be in the game as there are PvE players not wanting to be PKd.

 

SotA will not be as felucca UO. That is known. Developers told us that.

SotA will most likely not have full loot. 

SotA will have a cardgame for PvP system which remove just about all player skills, a PvP system full of luck.

SotA PvP will as i see it have a PvP system tailored for the carebears.

And if anyone have a different opinion on SotA forums then the carebears do all they can to shoot it down applauded by biased moderators that do their best to remove all opposition to this carebear version of SotA PvP.

 

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

11/09/13 7:41:50 AM#295
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Bilgato

@Aragon100

You are correct about the "carebear PvEers", the high-end backers do push and use the excuse that everything outside their desire is a waste of coding and dev time, to get what they want and seem to try to ground down anything that they don't want. And even though the 'sliderthingie' would make it so they would never have to PvP or be in any danger they still get their panties in a bunch even knowing it's in "their" game.

A while back some cat over there brought up having an option for Hard-Core/Perma-Death in the single player off-line mode.Now since it was suggested for the Off-Line mode and an "option" how could anyone say No? This would affect nobody but the person who selected it...it would be off-line.

But they did, the "High-Lords" rallied to put down something that would never affect them and (Just like with any 'scarry' PvP options)  that they would never even know was there. They are backseat driving, that's for sure and if Portilarium lets them micro-manage too much they will ruin the game they are shelling out all that cash for...and ruin it for the rest of us too.

Very well said.

Funniest part is they claim we PvP:ers will have a PvP option in SotA which is true but what they dont say is that it will be a carebear version of PvP. 

A version the carebears will enjoy and noone else.

 

Again, where exactly does it say that PvP will be carebear? This is your opinion, you have totally no idea how it will end up. Put your money where your mouth is and show us proof.

As many, if not more, PvP players are claiming bloody murder must be in the game as there are PvE players not wanting to be PKd.

 

SotA will not be as felucca UO. That is known. Developers told us that.

SotA will most likely not have full loot. 

SotA will have a cardgame for PvP system which remove just about all player skills, a PvP system full of luck.

SotA PvP will as i see it have a PvP system tailored for the carebears.

And if anyone have a different opinion on SotA forums then the carebears do all they can to shoot it down applauded by biased moderators that do their best to remove all opposition to this carebear version of SotA PvP.

 

 

Full loot is going to be trialed in Alpha or Beta, it has been said. You certainly can't say it wont exist.

You say it will have a card game, but really that is incorrect. Nobody is going to stop to play cards during a fight, it is not turn based. You know that, but unfortunately some of the less informed readers here may not, so I have to correct your bias for them.

Again, as you see it, due totally to your own bias and lack of information.

Mods there have been pretty quiet since I started taking screen pics and posting them on my blog. My guess is Portalarium told them to back off with their BS, but this was like over a month ago now. If you have a specific beef, make it known to the rest of the world like I have. Don't hide behind platitudes and give us no example of note.

 

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