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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » Seriously??? I was a devoted fan of all ultima until this...

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160 posts found
  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2203

9/17/13 9:29:42 AM#41
Originally posted by Nightfyre

From the way it reads, this pre-purchase is the only way to get it, just a head start for the best spots.  You'll still be able to buy a deed and place a house, most likely not in the idea spot for the similar UO merchant locations.

Houses in Ultima Online were important for decorators, merchants and pack rats.  Really sure they are not going limit it just to this, but to those who want a head-start in this area, which is fine since head-starts are in the majority of MMO's now.

 

And who knows maybe Richard is just funding another trip to the moon and will give up on the game soon after release.  - Aww someone else mentioned this too in their post hehe.

What would the backers that invested loads of money into the game think of others getting a house for free? 

 

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

9/17/13 9:39:28 AM#42
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Nightfyre

From the way it reads, this pre-purchase is the only way to get it, just a head start for the best spots.  You'll still be able to buy a deed and place a house, most likely not in the idea spot for the similar UO merchant locations.

Houses in Ultima Online were important for decorators, merchants and pack rats.  Really sure they are not going limit it just to this, but to those who want a head-start in this area, which is fine since head-starts are in the majority of MMO's now.

 

And who knows maybe Richard is just funding another trip to the moon and will give up on the game soon after release.  - Aww someone else mentioned this too in their post hehe.

What would the backers that invested loads of money into the game think of others getting a house almost for free? It would devalue their investment. Then they wont be able to rent out the closet for real life money.

That's why selling a limited in game resource for real money is a design mistake.

And why do you say housing would be "for free"? It would still require in game gold.

Having to invest $500 or more to get a house in a video game is just plain retarded. I guess Richard left his brain in space, floating among the stars.

My computer is better than yours.

  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6654

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

9/17/13 9:40:14 AM#43
How much are these houses going to cost ?
  Bigmamajama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 206

9/17/13 9:53:33 AM#44

This game is a cash shop before there is even a game.  I expected more from Garrott.  Selling items before launch with no comparable alternative when they go live is sleazy.

Chris Roberts is selling things before the game launches but they are just custom ships and items that you will undoubtedly get in some form when the game launches.  He's not saying "Buy your ship now before the game launches or you'll just be floating in space when you log in!!!

What Garrott is doing is wrong, saying you will never have a home in this game unless you buy one with cash before the game even launches.

I will no longer support his efforts.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

9/17/13 11:04:33 AM#45
Originally posted by Bigmamajama

This game is a cash shop before there is even a game.  I expected more from Garrott.  Selling items before launch with no comparable alternative when they go live is sleazy.

 

 

I too was pretty surprised on the route Portalarium have taken from the get go on this. It is 2013, let us be honest, every game created now and in the future will be microtransaction based after they go live. What I didn't expect is for some of the bigger things to slide in like these houses.

Then again, it is their game and if we want to play it we'll have to pay it. What I would watch closely though is the fact that they have not closed their direct backing tiers/rewards on the main site, and at the same time they are sliding these new houses in for 100 smacks each... 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18935

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/17/13 11:13:53 AM#46

I am not following this title much, never was a fan and I think RG is old news however I do share the OP's concern about exclusive kickstarter rewards such as housing.

I tossed in some cash for CU, however it did sort of "grind my gears" over their sales to the whales of entire islands for huge sums of cash.

If there was some way for me to get my own island in game, (even if it cost a gagillion in game gold) I'd probably be more accepting, but these rewards were also "one time one, exclusive" etc for cash donators only and truth is, annoying to me.

I guess without the whales these games might never be created, (well truthfully, we still haven't seen many games created out of crowd funding yet) but I would prefer it to not be necessary.

But then again, I'd like to buy a new BMW for like 10K, and that's not happening either. 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3139

Veni, Vidi, Converti

9/17/13 1:14:30 PM#47

So my question is: If you come AFTER the housing bubble, then how do "you" make your mark in the game, seemingly at a disadvantage? Obviously the housing is not "pixie dust" if demand fuels the housing bubble/land deeds. But then is it not a form of early pay-to-win -- even if you are a generous soul backing ahead of time?

I just want to see how the disadvantages are countered?

  Swedish_Chef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/13
Posts: 225

Bort bort bort!

9/17/13 1:51:14 PM#48
Originally posted by GungaDin

Really don't know what else to say.  

There isn't 50-75 mil in funding to make UO2 and provide housing to everyone.  

It was known from the beginning of kickstarter that housing would be rare and at a premium.

Housing was used as a source of fundraising.   Good or bad idea?  That is what they went with.  No way to change that or go back on that choice.  

If housing is your main concern (and your not willing to wait for more housing options), then don't pledge.  If you are more interested in the story, lore, crafting, PvE, PvP, old school conversation system or some other  aspect of gameplay (and like what you see), then pledge based on that. 

24,000 houses on multiple servers is not gonna happen with 2.5 mil in funding.  Do any of you know how much an MMO costs to produce these days?  Have to be realistic here.

 

No, it wasn't. That is an outright lie. Housing was always presented as a part of the core features of the game, not a 'rare thing' only people with disposable income could afford. I find it amusing that your argument is so weak that you have to fabricate garbage like this to support it.

As for not pledging, well it's a little late for that now (for me anyway). I've got an email in to Portalarium, we'll see what they say about it. Hopefully they'll do the right thing & grant me the refund I've (politely) requested. If not, I'm prepared to take things as far as they need to go to get my money back.

A refund isn't going to fix the sense of betrayal I feel though. I really wanted a spiritual successor to Ultima, but now I realize that the man who made the original series so great really doesn't exist anymore.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

9/17/13 1:56:51 PM#49
Sounds like a very expensive game indeed. Too bad I guess...

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

9/17/13 7:26:23 PM#50
Originally posted by MumboJumbo

So my question is: If you come AFTER the housing bubble, then how do "you" make your mark in the game, seemingly at a disadvantage? Obviously the housing is not "pixie dust" if demand fuels the housing bubble/land deeds. But then is it not a form of early pay-to-win -- even if you are a generous soul backing ahead of time?

I just want to see how the disadvantages are countered?

 

The Shroud of the Avatar world will have four additional expansions to it after the initial game has been released, so a total of five "games" if you will.

I suspect that in each of the games, new content and new land plots will be introduced giving those who didn't have a chance to kickstart/back the game to get their hands on some housing. However, I wouldn't expect it to be any different than it is now, before the new "games" or "patches" come out, expect to see the housing/plots up on the web store.

Better than nothing? Mabye.

The role of housing is not clear. It has been stated that getting a house will not exactly be a win button either, it will simply make things easier and quicker for the player. You will still be able to store stuff, sell stuff, and play the entire game without a house of course.

If your goal is to get your hands on housing with only in-game money and then turn a profit IRL, then yes you are at a disadvantage. But other than that, housing really could be pixie dust, it seems totally irrelevant at this point.

  Betakodo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 338

9/20/13 1:40:46 AM#51
Originally posted by Aragon100

What would the backers that invested loads of money into the game think of others getting a house for free? 

 

What is the purpose of "Backing" a game if not to support the creation of a excellent game? This is my beef with crowdfunding. It's more like crowdscamming. Think in terms of investing in stock or being a initial investor in a company. If the game does OK you get your initial investment back plus some profit. WIth crowdfunding, people have told me you don't get your initial investment back, just some in game stuff. Is the value of the in game stuff worth their initial investment? Questionable, how much is that house worth in 4 years compared to the $200 bucks? Also in the US, to be an "Accredited investor" you must make 200k a year or have 1 mil in assets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor) that pretty much is the check to make sure you can undertake such a risk in the first place. Crowdfunding kind of circumvents this sort of safety net and it seems like in the end, most people end up fleeced.

Crowdfunding this game is pretty unethical. Richard Garriott is a multi-milionare and paid $30 mil supposedly to go into space. He should have funded this game himself. On the opposite side, crowdfunding is a good way to make a nice profit. You never have to pay back the funders, except with virtual goods.

Giving in game housing to the highest bidder is not only distasteful, but pulls away from the immersion the game is supposed to be about. Same thing with cash shop carp. I loath the free to play revolution.

 

  Swedish_Chef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/13
Posts: 225

Bort bort bort!

9/20/13 2:02:33 AM#52
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Nightfyre

From the way it reads, this pre-purchase is the only way to get it, just a head start for the best spots.  You'll still be able to buy a deed and place a house, most likely not in the idea spot for the similar UO merchant locations.

Houses in Ultima Online were important for decorators, merchants and pack rats.  Really sure they are not going limit it just to this, but to those who want a head-start in this area, which is fine since head-starts are in the majority of MMO's now.

 

And who knows maybe Richard is just funding another trip to the moon and will give up on the game soon after release.  - Aww someone else mentioned this too in their post hehe.

What would the backers that invested loads of money into the game think of others getting a house for free? 

 

Nobody's saying that houses should be free. Nobody's saying that backers shouldn't get more stuff for the money they're spending. I'm all for backers with $1000 getting an awesome home on their own personal island somewhere, good for them.

What I'm against is the fact that not only are plots available for RL cash, but that they're limited quantity AND players can buy as many plots as they want. This means that people with more money IRL can buy up all the land and essentially prevent anyone else from buying it with ingame currency, thereby forcing players to either buy it with real money or miss out on one of the core features of the game. This is unacceptable. My gameplay experience shouldn't be limited because I lack disposable income. I already donated what I could; being told I have to donate more if I don't want to risk getting locked out of a nice chunk of the content is borderline extortion.

Or in other words, RG is a big fat greedy bastard milking people for all they're worth. If I get a refund, I'm either putting it toward increasing my Wasteland 2 pledge (game looks great so far) or possibly dropping it on Star Citizen.

At least Fargo & Roberts seem to have some sort of integrity left.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

9/22/13 8:31:12 PM#53
Originally posted by Swedish_Chef
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Nightfyre

From the way it reads, this pre-purchase is the only way to get it, just a head start for the best spots.  You'll still be able to buy a deed and place a house, most likely not in the idea spot for the similar UO merchant locations.

Houses in Ultima Online were important for decorators, merchants and pack rats.  Really sure they are not going limit it just to this, but to those who want a head-start in this area, which is fine since head-starts are in the majority of MMO's now.

 

And who knows maybe Richard is just funding another trip to the moon and will give up on the game soon after release.  - Aww someone else mentioned this too in their post hehe.

What would the backers that invested loads of money into the game think of others getting a house for free? 

 

Nobody's saying that houses should be free. Nobody's saying that backers shouldn't get more stuff for the money they're spending. I'm all for backers with $1000 getting an awesome home on their own personal island somewhere, good for them.

What I'm against is the fact that not only are plots available for RL cash, but that they're limited quantity AND players can buy as many plots as they want. This means that people with more money IRL can buy up all the land and essentially prevent anyone else from buying it with ingame currency, thereby forcing players to either buy it with real money or miss out on one of the core features of the game. This is unacceptable. My gameplay experience shouldn't be limited because I lack disposable income. I already donated what I could; being told I have to donate more if I don't want to risk getting locked out of a nice chunk of the content is borderline extortion.

Or in other words, RG is a big fat greedy bastard milking people for all they're worth. If I get a refund, I'm either putting it toward increasing my Wasteland 2 pledge (game looks great so far) or possibly dropping it on Star Citizen.

At least Fargo & Roberts seem to have some sort of integrity left.

 

I am usually a big proponent for equality in any area. However I don't quite understand your argument, I am a backer, citizen level with a house/plot due to it and I really could care less if other people are buying up land what so ever. You don't need a house in-game to play, I doubt it will give you that much of a leg up on anyone even if you do have one. Keep in mind there are going to be many more people without a house than with one, they will be the majority and they will also get what they want.

Have you not put in enough money during KS or SotA pledge to gain a house, and you are upset that you may not have the chance to earn a house in-game before everyone either pledges or pays IRL $ to get one first?

Richard Garriott is a damn legend, without him you'd probably be playing a My Little Pony game right now. Church.

  Hanthos

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/17/13
Posts: 220

PROUD P2P Elitist...

9/22/13 8:37:36 PM#54
Originally posted by GungaDin

A house / plot of land is not needed to play the game.  Its just extra fluff.  You can decorate it, place trophies in it, meet with friends or craft from within your house (instead of using a public crafting station).  

You are basically paying for convenience.  

 

In your opinion, maybe. There is a large segment of the gaming community that feel that housing options should be as mandatory a feature of the game as character creation is. I was very close to backing until this announcement. I now think that I will give it a pass.

  InsaneMembrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 146

9/22/13 8:40:47 PM#55
Originally posted by Hanthos
Originally posted by GungaDin

A house / plot of land is not needed to play the game.  Its just extra fluff.  You can decorate it, place trophies in it, meet with friends or craft from within your house (instead of using a public crafting station).  

You are basically paying for convenience.  

 

In your opinion, maybe. There is a large segment of the gaming community that feel that housing options should be as mandatory a feature of the game as character creation is. I was very close to backing until this announcement. I now think that I will give it a pass.

 

That is one of the most... interesting comments I have ever read. I've never come across anyone in recent MMO gaming which has told me they think that they are outright entitled to getting a house. 

This is a new concept for me and doesn't make much sense. I would like to know why you believe that you are entitled to something like that?

I mean what if I don't want a house, you're also going to force me to play house?? I wear no skirt, as it is I'll probably give my citizen home away to some retard crafter or money grubbing douche bag in game.

  Semiel

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/04
Posts: 78

9/23/13 6:20:06 AM#56

For those that are looking for UO2 will be disappointed.

SotA is more like a singleplayer game with added persistent multiplayer/co-op components. Additionally it is heavily instanced and the number of people that share your game at the same time is very limited.

For me this was a deal breaker and I don't even know why people would want a house in such a game.

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3139

Veni, Vidi, Converti

9/23/13 7:23:27 AM#57

There's been a huge popularity with selling houses so evidently Richard Garriott knows what he's doing to make money/kickstart.

But I find it very difficult to calculate the VALUE of houses.

When I back a kickstarter I calculate the value of the pledge then chip in a small side amount that is pure "help funding" goodwill.

This serves me well. I made only one mistake and lost perhaps $2 only on kickstarter backing on one failed project I still got to test the alpha. Perhaps one other ks are backed too much on and lost $30 but I was super emotionally invested in seeing that fly... If there was a detailed explanation of the value of houses village to large and the tax rate and how that converts to the real world cash paid by the person, then I'd be able to make a judgement. I just don't get how others have come to their decision.

  GungaDin

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 494

9/23/13 8:14:54 AM#58
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
Originally posted by Hanthos
Originally posted by GungaDin

A house / plot of land is not needed to play the game.  Its just extra fluff.  You can decorate it, place trophies in it, meet with friends or craft from within your house (instead of using a public crafting station).  

You are basically paying for convenience.  

 

In your opinion, maybe. There is a large segment of the gaming community that feel that housing options should be as mandatory a feature of the game as character creation is. I was very close to backing until this announcement. I now think that I will give it a pass.

 

That is one of the most... interesting comments I have ever read. I've never come across anyone in recent MMO gaming which has told me they think that they are outright entitled to getting a house. 

This is a new concept for me and doesn't make much sense. I would like to know why you believe that you are entitled to something like that?

I mean what if I don't want a house, you're also going to force me to play house?? I wear no skirt, as it is I'll probably give my citizen home away to some retard crafter or money grubbing douche bag in game.

I feel the same way actually.  I pledged high enough for a house/plot of land, but to be honest, i'm pushing for in game Inns to be the hub of roleplay and community.

You think back to UO, the best places for me to interact with others was either at the bank or brit forge doing repairs.  Close 2nd was perhaps guild halls where you would meet on a weekly basis.   Don't get me wrong, having a house is nice, but its not critical to gameplay.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10517

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

9/23/13 8:45:27 AM#59


Originally posted by GungaDin

Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

Originally posted by Hanthos

Originally posted by GungaDin A house / plot of land is not needed to play the game.  Its just extra fluff.  You can decorate it, place trophies in it, meet with friends or craft from within your house (instead of using a public crafting station).   You are basically paying for convenience.    
In your opinion, maybe. There is a large segment of the gaming community that feel that housing options should be as mandatory a feature of the game as character creation is. I was very close to backing until this announcement. I now think that I will give it a pass.
  That is one of the most... interesting comments I have ever read. I've never come across anyone in recent MMO gaming which has told me they think that they are outright entitled to getting a house.  This is a new concept for me and doesn't make much sense. I would like to know why you believe that you are entitled to something like that? I mean what if I don't want a house, you're also going to force me to play house?? I wear no skirt, as it is I'll probably give my citizen home away to some retard crafter or money grubbing douche bag in game.
I feel the same way actually.  I pledged high enough for a house/plot of land, but to be honest, i'm pushing for in game Inns to be the hub of roleplay and community.

You think back to UO, the best places for me to interact with others was either at the bank or brit forge doing repairs.  Close 2nd was perhaps guild halls where you would meet on a weekly basis.   Don't get me wrong, having a house is nice, but its not critical to gameplay.




Nobody deserves a plot of land or a house in any game. Unless the verbiage for donating money said, "If you give this amount, you most certainly will get a plot of land and a house." In that case, people who donated enough money should get a house, if the game actually releases. But other than that, no, nobody deserves a house or land. They might certainly want those things, but they don't deserve them.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

9/23/13 8:57:58 AM#60
Originally posted by lizardbones

 

Nobody deserves a plot of land or a house in any game. Unless the verbiage for donating money said, "If you give this amount, you most certainly will get a plot of land and a house." In that case, people who donated enough money should get a house, if the game actually releases. But other than that, no, nobody deserves a house or land. They might certainly want those things, but they don't deserve them.
 

And if those who work hard to get a house (aka DESERVE it) can't get one because there's no more plots available, they will most certainly just quit the game.

Those saying housing is not a major part of the game make me laugh. Look the gameplay videos released so far... yeah, ALL are centered around the house.

Owning a house, even a small village one, gives major advantages to crafters. And that's not only house decoration crafters - also weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, etc...

Having your storage just beside your own forge is just a tremendous advantage... and having your own vendor too.

My computer is better than yours.

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