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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » If it doesn't have player looting and stealing, the game will fail.

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295 posts found
  Komandor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 246

 
OP  6/06/13 11:56:44 AM#1

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

Keep on rockin'!

  Darth-Batman

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 685

Bruce, I am your father.

6/06/13 12:09:18 PM#2
Because Darkfall is a shining example of a success story? All those open-world-pvp-full-loot games have something in common, they all struggle. All the 'hardcore' players chase away potential customers with their ganking until the community dies off. Players like me are left with nothing to do but hunt noob-hunters, which gets boring after day one and after day two all the 'noobs' have quit due to gankers small penile syndrome. I hope Shroud doesnt follow this pattern because if it does, chances are it'll share the same fate as Mortal Online and DF. 
  VikingGamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1183

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

6/06/13 12:14:32 PM#3
UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.

The Law of Conservation of Stupidity:
For every Fan there will be an equally vocal Troll with the opposite opinion.

  olepi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 941

6/06/13 12:16:21 PM#4

You can have both. Put some really valuable resources in a PvP zone, and let those who want to get those resources take the risk of getting ganked.

But also provide lots of game area where you can't be ganked, so noobies get to play until the feel like PvP'ing, without the worry of getting ganked.

Any game where the whole game world is open PvP with looting, will always have a very small population.

------------
RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  Komandor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 246

 
OP  6/06/13 12:50:02 PM#5
Originally posted by Darth-Batman
Because Darkfall is a shining example of a success story? All those open-world-pvp-full-loot games have something in common, they all struggle. All the 'hardcore' players chase away potential customers with their ganking until the community dies off. Players like me are left with nothing to do but hunt noob-hunters, which gets boring after day one and after day two all the 'noobs' have quit due to gankers small penile syndrome. I hope Shroud doesnt follow this pattern because if it does, chances are it'll share the same fate as Mortal Online and DF. 

That's why I said, they need to make a "better Darkfall", because the idea is great, but bad execution.

 

" Players like me are left with nothing to do but hunt noob-hunters, which gets boring after day one and after day two all the 'noobs' have quit due to gankers small penile syndrome. I hope Shroud doesnt follow this pattern because if it does, chances are it'll share the same fate as Mortal Online and DF."

 

There wasn't such an issue in UO.

Keep on rockin'!

  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 780

6/06/13 12:57:09 PM#6
You can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server.   If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass.  
  Mavek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/10
Posts: 142

6/06/13 1:00:20 PM#7
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

I think the hardcore crowd is <5% of those who play mmo's so why again would this be done?

  InsaneDalek

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 123

EXTERMINATE!

6/06/13 1:02:45 PM#8
Yes, because as everyone knows when UO added Trammel it was such a huge fai- OH WAIT.

It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.

  Komandor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 246

 
OP  6/06/13 1:10:54 PM#9
Originally posted by InsaneDalek
Yes, because as everyone knows when UO added Trammel it was such a huge fai- OH WAIT.

It was fail. Trammel pretty much killed UO. This is common knowledge. Worst move in gaming history.

Keep on rockin'!

  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

6/06/13 1:11:54 PM#10

what I dont get is the fascination with full loot.  Why hasnt a game come up with a method of rewarding the killer greatly, while not punishing the dieing party so extreme.

why isnt there a game, where like for example (just rough numbers) the highest level mob drops 1000 gold (insert random currency or craft resource) but the player kills drop 10000 gold or some really useful crafting resource.  It would encourage pvp, and more those of  us (myself) more inclined to get involved.

The reason alot of us "carebears" hate full loot is cause a lot of times if you join a game late you are screwed, and there is such a stigma of corpse camping, that it just isnt worth the hassle

 

  Komandor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 246

 
OP  6/06/13 1:21:59 PM#11
Originally posted by Myrdynn

what I dont get is the fascination with full loot.  Why hasnt a game come up with a method of rewarding the killer greatly, while not punishing the dieing party so extreme.

why isnt there a game, where like for example (just rough numbers) the highest level mob drops 1000 gold (insert random currency or craft resource) but the player kills drop 10000 gold or some really useful crafting resource.  It would encourage pvp, and more those of  us (myself) more inclined to get involved.

The reason alot of us "carebears" hate full loot is cause a lot of times if you join a game late you are screwed, and there is such a stigma of corpse camping, that it just isnt worth the hassle

 

Because if you don't take stuff away from the losing player, then you are basically dublicating items.

 

 

Keep on rockin'!

  Fly666monkey

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/11
Posts: 131

6/06/13 1:22:21 PM#12
Originally posted by Komandor
Originally posted by InsaneDalek
Yes, because as everyone knows when UO added Trammel it was such a huge fai- OH WAIT.

It was fail. Trammel pretty much killed UO. This is common knowledge. Worst move in gaming history.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!

UO's sub base peaked at 250,00 subs in July 2003... 3 years after Trammel came out. Get your facts straight.

  olepi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 941

6/06/13 1:24:55 PM#13
Originally posted by Fly666monkey
Originally posted by Komandor
Originally posted by InsaneDalek
Yes, because as everyone knows when UO added Trammel it was such a huge fai- OH WAIT.

It was fail. Trammel pretty much killed UO. This is common knowledge. Worst move in gaming history.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!

UO's sub base peaked at 250,00 subs in July 2003... 3 years after Trammel came out. Get your facts straight.

250,000 subs would be considered barely ok today, a niche game. Probably no other full loot game has even that many subs.

Any developer making a full loot game has to realize that the player base is small for that kind of game.

------------
RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

6/06/13 1:28:07 PM#14
Originally posted by Komandor
Originally posted by Myrdynn

what I dont get is the fascination with full loot.  Why hasnt a game come up with a method of rewarding the killer greatly, while not punishing the dieing party so extreme.

why isnt there a game, where like for example (just rough numbers) the highest level mob drops 1000 gold (insert random currency or craft resource) but the player kills drop 10000 gold or some really useful crafting resource.  It would encourage pvp, and more those of  us (myself) more inclined to get involved.

The reason alot of us "carebears" hate full loot is cause a lot of times if you join a game late you are screwed, and there is such a stigma of corpse camping, that it just isnt worth the hassle

 

Because if you don't take stuff away from the losing player, then you are basically dublicating items.

 

 

what are you talking about?  Im not saying you get a copy of their gear.  What if they dropped a key to a lootable chest, some currency, or a crafting resource, nothing is duplicating

  User Deleted
6/06/13 1:30:15 PM#15

I find it fascinating that people play MMORPGs but wish to play only against NPCs and not other players.  You're supposed to be this big bad warrior fighting for your faction... only you restrict that to the pre-programmed scripted NPCs that you basically are assured success against.

 

They need to erase the concept of PVE and just create a world in which anyone can attack anyone... you know... like real life?

  Komandor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 246

 
OP  6/06/13 1:31:31 PM#16
Originally posted by olepi
Originally posted by Fly666monkey
Originally posted by Komandor
Originally posted by InsaneDalek
Yes, because as everyone knows when UO added Trammel it was such a huge fai- OH WAIT.

It was fail. Trammel pretty much killed UO. This is common knowledge. Worst move in gaming history.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!

UO's sub base peaked at 250,00 subs in July 2003... 3 years after Trammel came out. Get your facts straight.

250,000 subs would be considered barely ok today, a niche game. Probably no other full loot game has even that many subs.

Any developer making a full loot game has to realize that the player base is small for that kind of game.

How can you say that player base for Alpha Hardcore game is low, when nobody has tried it. Darkfall failed, because of lousy execution. Mortal Online failed due to programming faults and lag. If the idea would be executed properly, they both would've been a 10/10 title [mod edit]

Keep on rockin'!

  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

6/06/13 1:33:33 PM#17
Originally posted by pmiles

I find it fascinating that people play MMORPGs but wish to play only against NPCs and not other players.  You're supposed to be this big bad warrior fighting for your faction... only you restrict that to the pre-programmed scripted NPCs that you basically are assured success against.

 

They need to erase the concept of PVE and just create a world in which anyone can attack anyone... you know... like real life?

the real life thing is played out, this is a fantasy world.  In real life if you attack someone you either get killed or goto prison for life or death.

and also in real life you cant attack anyone, unless you are just a plain moron.  which maybe is the case, see how far you get or if you even live strolling down 1600 pennsylvania ave with that idea you got

 

  Comaf

Elite Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1089

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

6/06/13 1:35:46 PM#18
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

I'll toughen up my words a bit since you used the term, "carebear." 

 

Show me what games SINCE Ultima that have become successful based on a hardcore pvp ruleset?  The point is, most of the gaming audience is not made up of unemployed subscribers who still live at home.  This is, at best, a childish notion to even assume that a company with people on a payroll would be not plan from day 1 to  break the chains of the tiny, niche audience that would feebly support a cut throat venture.

 

However, that being said, create a hard core server and one for the working folks who have families to balance...and you will appease both audiences.  I was a huge Shadowbane fan, a far better IP than Darkfall/Mortal Online,  but we saw where she ended up.

  Komandor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 246

 
OP  6/06/13 1:39:32 PM#19
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by Komandor

The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.

 

If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.

 

They basically need to make a better Darkfall.

I'll toughen up my words a bit since you used the term, "carebear." 

 

Show me what games SINCE Ultima that have become successful based on a hardcore pvp ruleset?  The point is, most of the gaming audience is not made up of unemployed subscribers who still live at home.  This is, at best, a childish notion to even assume that a company with people on a payroll would be not plan from day 1 to  break the chains of the tiny, niche audience that would feebly support a cut throat venture.

 

However, that being said, create a hard core server and one for the working folks who have families to balance...and you will appease both audiences.  I was a huge Shadowbane fan, a far better IP than Darkfall/Mortal Online,  but we saw where she ended up.

EVE ONLINE

And they aren't homelivers also. They are mostly 25+ employed professionals who enjoy an intellectual challenge and some of dat dere cortisol

Keep on rockin'!

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2643

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

6/06/13 2:01:06 PM#20

Hey look, two features that are cool for an "RP/realistic" Flavor but would just be used to grief others, likely by players pretending to be hardcore doing so it situations completely in their favor, while crying if it reverses.

 

Yeah a bit rough but seriously, as cool as the concepts could be, its just often used by griefers for the sake of ruining the experience of other players. I expect virtually no one would use it for a 'fair fight' or in a way that feels more meaningful outside the griefing aspect.

 

I know, its really bad but a sad truth that when it comes to mechanics like this, they aren't wanted for the sake of having fair fights, its used to be abused in ways to stoke some ones ego (falsely) by ruining the experience of someone else. Shame when cool things like this I feel just aren't great to have in a game due to how immature gamers really have become in their sense of 'enjoyment'.

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