Trending Games | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | Landmark | EVE Online | Star Wars: The Old Republic

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,919,315 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,309,632
Portalarium Inc | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Development  (est.rel N/A)  | Pub:Portalarium Inc
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:n/a | Monthly Fee:n/a
System Req: PC Mac Linux | Out of date info? Let us know!

Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » Richard Garriot, SOTA, and Tabula Rasa

16 posts found
  daydreamerxx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/05
Posts: 179

 
OP  3/25/13 2:52:36 AM#1

So I just finished going over the stuff on the SOTA Kickstarter page. While watching the video I couldn't help but laugh over and over again. 

I was a huge supporter of Ultima Online and Tabula Rasa. I sorta liked UO but I loved TR. Then Garriot the douchenozzle he is goes off to outerspace or whatever. He practically kills TR and along with it my respect for the man as a game designer and developer. Then all the subtle things he says in the video. It just made me want to reach through the monitor and b!@#% slap the guy. 

He recently said almost all game designers are not good at their jobs. But the guy hasnt actually designed a game in a LONG time that has been a hit or been very popular. While I loved TR it wasnt a great game to most people and so the last decent game he made would be an ultima game.  The guy has no room to talk about developers being bad or not being good at their jobs. 

Plus markets change, what people like change. He said it himself, they make the games the people want. While also saying he doesnt want to give direction in so many words or less in the same video. He contradicts a lot of what he is saying. Point is SOTA is going to be shit. 1/10 mmos that come out are actually decent games and that is a NICE number. Richard Garriot should leave the game industry behind and stay away, and keep his mouth shut. 

While I believe the game will not be very good and definitly hope the game doesn't have 5-10 date graphics as I think it will.... I hope it will succeed if for any other reason than I am so tired wow or wow like games.

Anyway let the flames begin. Just wanted to get this out there. 

  Shadowslady

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/09
Posts: 150

So Erling Ellingsen Thinks He's the Queen?

3/26/13 4:33:59 AM#2

Chill bro, you're gonna stroke out.

 

First off, 90% of the developers do suck from a "certain point of view"- the developers are VERY good at programming one type of game, the EQ Clone. WoW being the most infamous.  They can start from someone else's work and change it, improve it, make it worse? But either way, its not creating something new.

 

Garriot pioneered the first succesful MMO and an incredibly popular single player series on his OWN.

 

Creating something new...

 

Another great example would be the Polish group that made the Witcher.

 

Maybe it'll fail, maybe it'll succeed- but there are tens of thousands of people who would rather play something new than yet ANOTHER mod of EQ. 

Shadowlord Sage
CmdrAkbar

Napa Valley, UO, 1997.

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

3/26/13 4:36:56 AM#3
After  making statements like 'most of the game devs suck'..full of himself Garriot has painted a bullseye on his back. He better put up or shut up with SOTA..becaue yes people remember things.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Jorendo

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 237

3/26/13 5:24:33 AM#4
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
After  making statements like 'most of the game devs suck'..full of himself Garriot has painted a bullseye on his back. He better put up or shut up with SOTA..becaue yes people remember things.

He should say most publishers suck. Developers these day's don't have so much to say about their games anymore as in his days. Beside if someone shoud know how terrible publishers can be its him. Tabula Rasa got killed off cause he and the publisher had a argument. The Publisher not pleased with Garrot killed the game to get back to him, a pitty act of revenge. But my point is that Publishers decided how a MMO is gonna be and the devs just have to accept that. Look at SWToR, how many things Bioware wanted to do with it and said about it....then EA whent like "nope not gonna happen" and boom it didn't happen.

 

Garriot has all the rights to say things, just as we gamers have. We don't make games ourselves but still we spam the boards when a game displeases us. But Garriot did make games, and with his MMO's he always did things differently. Yeah sure in the times of Ultima Online there wheren't a thousand of other MMORPG's too those from. When Tabula Rasa came out we had more choice but again his MMO did something else then the others of its generation. We where having a world that lived again. It wasn't the best game, but atleast it did things different. His work also came back in some other MMO's like SW Galaxies where players controlled the universe, could build their own towns, wheren't stuck to a side from the begining (yeah later when Sony took over it turned into a WoW in space but still with much more freedom).

 

These day's MMO's get smaller and smaller, and players don't get influence at all. But this isn't the dev's fault perse. Its the publisher behind them more often then not. EA wants the sales success that WoW has. And EA is so narrowminded that they actually believe you can beat a game by becoming the same game. It works for all their other games so why wouldn't it for a MMO right? Well maybe because people aren't gonna leave their community and character they worked on for many years for a game that offers the exact same experience as their currrent game?

 

Not sure how Garriots game gonna be. Not gonna hope for anything either cause my hopes have only guided me to disapointments. But it would be nice if he could actually make a MMO that people been asking for since he left the scene.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2889

There... are... four... lights!

3/26/13 1:20:01 PM#5

I have my own, big worries about this game.

For instance, limited amount of housing. While on the paper, the "roleplayers" may think it's realistic and cool, once you play and realize you're not the top dog or even remotely close to it, and when you finally manage to get the money to buy your own land, you realize it has all been taken by the ultra hardcore AND by the gold farmers selling it back for huge amounts of real money, you won't find it that cool anymore.

Another thing... right now, for $500+ on kickstarter, you can secure a house plot. Is that what the game will be about? Spending HUGE sums of real money in order to own virtual property? No way any sane person will give $500 for housing in a video game that's not even in alpha stage.

The game features, the fact that it's a new Ultima game with many details coming from the originals (Ultima III to VI and Online), are interesting, but the way it's managed so far seems a recipe for disaster to me. Just on the housing system, I expect thousands of very pissed players quit once they realize they can't get a house for themself since all the hardcoretards and real money spenders (both "kickstaters" and gold farmer buyers) already got them all.

If anything, I will enjoy the offline mode if it's even just remotely as good as Ultima IV to VI. But the online mode seems to be a very poorly designed system... so long for Garriott being a better designer than everyone else. This said, the game isn't even in alpha yet, many things can change until December.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/26/13 1:32:14 PM#6

Even after his rebuttal about being mis-quoted, the presses quote that most game developers suck is a home run.

 

Naturally game developers hate to hear this, but looking at the games out these days compared to 10 years ago, it's a statement worthy of attention.

 

Too bad he sold his Origin Systems company to EA, where it was dismantled and the IP's destroyed.  It will be interesting to see how the new Avatar game turns out without an overbearing publisher.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

3/26/13 1:33:40 PM#7
UO wasnt even that great of a game. The only thing I found amazing about it was that I was in a game with a bunch of other people and the world is huge. The rest of it was just a huge grindfest.
  vinilla

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/08
Posts: 21

3/26/13 2:18:25 PM#8
Originally posted by birdycephon
UO wasnt even that great of a game. The only thing I found amazing about it was that I was in a game with a bunch of other people and the world is huge. The rest of it was just a huge grindfest.

You're kidding right? Every single mmorpg basically IS grindfest! If u don't want to kill monsters for better armor and weapons go play Super Mario!

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

3/26/13 2:48:04 PM#9
Originally posted by vinilla
Originally posted by birdycephon
UO wasnt even that great of a game. The only thing I found amazing about it was that I was in a game with a bunch of other people and the world is huge. The rest of it was just a huge grindfest.

You're kidding right? Every single mmorpg basically IS grindfest! If u don't want to kill monsters for better armor and weapons go play Super Mario!

Then I guess we have different definitions of grind, because there are plenty of MMOs with little to no grind.

  daydreamerxx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/05
Posts: 179

 
OP  3/26/13 4:26:50 PM#10

See that is the thing though. Developers, publishers. They want what is going to sell, and that is what most people think they want as well. Which is why you see so many of the same style of games. Which is a large point of my post. He says in the kickstarter video he isn't going to do a bunch of things that most modern mmos are doing, but then says he wants to make the game the players want. See players want direction. They dont wanna have to roam around for 10 hours trying to find a quest. Now days people want to get in a game and play. They want their hands held. Im not saying that is good design but it is smart business. In the end the game industry is a business and if it's not making money it's not successful.  Of course there are a couple of exceptions and those would be indie games.

 

It is very rare to find a developer make a game THEY want to play versus a game the consumer wants to play. When I was in school for game design they told you all the time your not making the games for yourself your making them for the consumer. But my big question was this. If I am making something I would like, would that not make me more passionate about it and thus make a better product ? Just sayin....

 

The term new is used loosely when you are referring to art, games, music, media..... The reason is because as time goes by it gets harder and harder to actually make something NEW. You can change veriables or combine ideas but it is very hard to make something just straight new, something that HAS NOT been done. 

 

Publishers do suck and most are notorious for killing good games. Especially EA. Perhaps with Riticellio or whatever his name is gone somethings might change.

It's true all mmos are grindy but in different ways. There is the gear grind, there is xp grind, skill point grind, rep grind, currency grinds. But when most people say a game is grindy they mean to say there isn't a lot of questing involved. That it is just go out and kill thousands, millions of mobs for xp.  In the end if people hate grinding and consider questing a grind then all games are grinds being that most games are a character going on a quest.....  

I don't want the game to fail, but I want Garriot to. The guy needs to shut his mouth and work. If his game falls through, and we all know it will because all mmos do aside from wow. Just look at pay to play games that have come out. How many of them closed ? How many of them went free to play ? 

What constitutes as successful for a mmo ? 10k subs ? 50k ? 100k ? 200k ? 500k ? 1mill ? What ? If people arent paying micros in a free to play game but it has 500k people is it a successful game if they arent making money ? What if most people playing it hate the game but play it because a friend is playing and they want to play games with their friends ?

 

  stvnkrs10

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 41

5/30/13 11:51:04 AM#11

British is right in the fact that games these days require no thought or effort. Click on the guy with the !, skip over the text because it doesn't matter anyhow, follow the little sparkly line to things you need to kill, rinse and repeat. I am looking forward to a game where I can chose my own path and think for myself. The problem with most games these days is once you tire of killing, the game is over. Ultima Online was famous for bringing other things to do in the game besides killing. I for one am looking forward to this game!

 

Also to the OP, how many games with great graphics have you seen and the game play sucks? Most of them in my count. I have wandered aimlessly through countless "pretty" games since UO and will gladly trade visual aesthetics for great game play. 

  Apraxis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1509

6/01/13 3:53:40 PM#12
Originally posted by daydreamerxx

See that is the thing though. Developers, publishers. They want what is going to sell, and that is what most people think they want as well. Which is why you see so many of the same style of games. Which is a large point of my post. He says in the kickstarter video he isn't going to do a bunch of things that most modern mmos are doing, but then says he wants to make the game the players want. See players want direction. They dont wanna have to roam around for 10 hours trying to find a quest. Now days people want to get in a game and play. They want their hands held. Im not saying that is good design but it is smart business. In the end the game industry is a business and if it's not making money it's not successful.  Of course there are a couple of exceptions and those would be indie games.

Truth is most people don't know what they want, or that they want this, although they want that. And yes a lot of people want to roam around for hours to find a interesting and intriguing quest to get involved and immersed into a world. And a lot of people are sick of questgivers around the next corner(or everywhere) for another kill 10 rats quest.

It is very rare to find a developer make a game THEY want to play versus a game the consumer wants to play. When I was in school for game design they told you all the time your not making the games for yourself your making them for the consumer. But my big question was this. If I am making something I would like, would that not make me more passionate about it and thus make a better product ? Just sayin....

 It don't work in art, music or any creative field, and it is true for games, too. Of course you can deliver what the masses want.. and maybe will even play it for 10 minutes.. and throw it away afterwards.

The term new is used loosely when you are referring to art, games, music, media..... The reason is because as time goes by it gets harder and harder to actually make something NEW. You can change veriables or combine ideas but it is very hard to make something just straight new, something that HAS NOT been done. 

 Yeap. But gaming is not that old.. not everything is done.. hell not even in music.

Publishers do suck and most are notorious for killing good games. Especially EA. Perhaps with Riticellio or whatever his name is gone somethings might change.

It's true all mmos are grindy but in different ways. There is the gear grind, there is xp grind, skill point grind, rep grind, currency grinds. But when most people say a game is grindy they mean to say there isn't a lot of questing involved. That it is just go out and kill thousands, millions of mobs for xp.  In the end if people hate grinding and consider questing a grind then all games are grinds being that most games are a character going on a quest.....  

I don't want the game to fail, but I want Garriot to. The guy needs to shut his mouth and work. If his game falls through, and we all know it will because all mmos do aside from wow. Just look at pay to play games that have come out. How many of them closed ? How many of them went free to play ? 

I don't care about Garriot. I will be happy if he actually delivers a new and refreshing gaming experience.. if not, well then he is not any different then any other mmo developer out there.. not a lot of really great mmos out there.

What constitutes as successful for a mmo ? 10k subs ? 50k ? 100k ? 200k ? 500k ? 1mill ? What ? If people arent paying micros in a free to play game but it has 500k people is it a successful game if they arent making money ? What if most people playing it hate the game but play it because a friend is playing and they want to play games with their friends ?

 Success for a business means it is profitable. Success for a player means he enjoys the game. Subs just say how popular(how much advertising, generated hype) a game is, or subs over time say how many players enjoyed it for any length. Nether of both define successful. A game could be with 50k subs successful or a failure with 1 million subs.. as we can see with SWTOR 150+ millions have to be earned.

 

  superconducting

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 738

6/01/13 11:23:13 PM#13

Never heard someone get it so wrong!

 

"bla bla... Garriott went to space and forgot about me"

-- He was merely following in his father's footsteps who was an astronaut. And since when is he obligated to stay on EARTH for you?

 

"Garriott said most game designers aren't good"

-- He's actually right, very few actually have what it takes to succeed. Yes he could have worded that sentence better though.

 

"SOTA is going to be shit."

-- Thanks for the world-class review of a game that's not even halfway done

 

My advice to you sir is to quit being a baby and form your opinion once the game comes out.

  Komandor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 260

6/06/13 1:03:42 PM#14

"The game features, the fact that it's a new Ultima game with many details coming from the originals (Ultima III to VI and Online), are interesting, but the way it's managed so far seems a recipe for disaster to me. Just on the housing system, I expect thousands of very pissed players quit once they realize they can't get a house for themself since all the hardcoretards and real money spenders (both "kickstaters" and gold farmer buyers) already got them all."

 

How is this a problem? It's called realism. In real world every person can't get a house as well. Only people who are rich, cunning, determined enough. If you want the house, you buy it back from the old owner. How is this a problem? 

Keep on rockin'!

  kilun

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 691

6/06/13 1:32:03 PM#15
Originally posted by Jorendo
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
After  making statements like 'most of the game devs suck'..full of himself Garriot has painted a bullseye on his back. He better put up or shut up with SOTA..becaue yes people remember things.

He should say most publishers suck. Developers these day's don't have so much to say about their games anymore as in his days. Beside if someone shoud know how terrible publishers can be its him. Tabula Rasa got killed off cause he and the publisher had a argument. The Publisher not pleased with Garrot killed the game to get back to him, a pitty act of revenge. But my point is that Publishers decided how a MMO is gonna be and the devs just have to accept that. Look at SWToR, how many things Bioware wanted to do with it and said about it....then EA whent like "nope not gonna happen" and boom it didn't happen.

 

Garriot has all the rights to say things, just as we gamers have. We don't make games ourselves but still we spam the boards when a game displeases us. But Garriot did make games, and with his MMO's he always did things differently. Yeah sure in the times of Ultima Online there wheren't a thousand of other MMORPG's too those from. When Tabula Rasa came out we had more choice but again his MMO did something else then the others of its generation. We where having a world that lived again. It wasn't the best game, but atleast it did things different. His work also came back in some other MMO's like SW Galaxies where players controlled the universe, could build their own towns, wheren't stuck to a side from the begining (yeah later when Sony took over it turned into a WoW in space but still with much more freedom).

 

These day's MMO's get smaller and smaller, and players don't get influence at all. But this isn't the dev's fault perse. Its the publisher behind them more often then not. EA wants the sales success that WoW has. And EA is so narrowminded that they actually believe you can beat a game by becoming the same game. It works for all their other games so why wouldn't it for a MMO right? Well maybe because people aren't gonna leave their community and character they worked on for many years for a game that offers the exact same experience as their currrent game?

 

Not sure how Garriots game gonna be. Not gonna hope for anything either cause my hopes have only guided me to disapointments. But it would be nice if he could actually make a MMO that people been asking for since he left the scene.

 The whole publisher BS is old.  Steam offers plenty of options for companies to not have a publisher,, and many other games launch without a publisher.  A publisher is needed if you want a box copy or the name of a big company behind your product.  There is zero reason why he needs a publisher or did for Tabula Rasa.  Not only that be he chose the worst publisher for any NA game market there was to begin with.  He has to big a head to ever make it again to be honest.

I mean you really think it was EA's fault?  The trio at BIOWARE SOLD OUT.  They didn't need a publisher, they are were big enough company that they could publish it themselves, SWTOR had a large backing before EA took hold of the assets.  Unfortunately,  I think anyone in their shoes would of cashed out, but this is a money world and last I checked not everyone wants their dreams realised, and I think Garriot is more of a cash hungry guy than anything else, I wonder what his current financial status is.

  Komandor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 260

6/06/13 1:59:32 PM#16
Originally posted by kilun
Originally posted by Jorendo
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
After  making statements like 'most of the game devs suck'..full of himself Garriot has painted a bullseye on his back. He better put up or shut up with SOTA..becaue yes people remember things.

He should say most publishers suck. Developers these day's don't have so much to say about their games anymore as in his days. Beside if someone shoud know how terrible publishers can be its him. Tabula Rasa got killed off cause he and the publisher had a argument. The Publisher not pleased with Garrot killed the game to get back to him, a pitty act of revenge. But my point is that Publishers decided how a MMO is gonna be and the devs just have to accept that. Look at SWToR, how many things Bioware wanted to do with it and said about it....then EA whent like "nope not gonna happen" and boom it didn't happen.

 

Garriot has all the rights to say things, just as we gamers have. We don't make games ourselves but still we spam the boards when a game displeases us. But Garriot did make games, and with his MMO's he always did things differently. Yeah sure in the times of Ultima Online there wheren't a thousand of other MMORPG's too those from. When Tabula Rasa came out we had more choice but again his MMO did something else then the others of its generation. We where having a world that lived again. It wasn't the best game, but atleast it did things different. His work also came back in some other MMO's like SW Galaxies where players controlled the universe, could build their own towns, wheren't stuck to a side from the begining (yeah later when Sony took over it turned into a WoW in space but still with much more freedom).

 

These day's MMO's get smaller and smaller, and players don't get influence at all. But this isn't the dev's fault perse. Its the publisher behind them more often then not. EA wants the sales success that WoW has. And EA is so narrowminded that they actually believe you can beat a game by becoming the same game. It works for all their other games so why wouldn't it for a MMO right? Well maybe because people aren't gonna leave their community and character they worked on for many years for a game that offers the exact same experience as their currrent game?

 

Not sure how Garriots game gonna be. Not gonna hope for anything either cause my hopes have only guided me to disapointments. But it would be nice if he could actually make a MMO that people been asking for since he left the scene.

 The whole publisher BS is old.  Steam offers plenty of options for companies to not have a publisher,, and many other games launch without a publisher.  A publisher is needed if you want a box copy or the name of a big company behind your product.  There is zero reason why he needs a publisher or did for Tabula Rasa.  Not only that be he chose the worst publisher for any NA game market there was to begin with.  He has to big a head to ever make it again to be honest.

I mean you really think it was EA's fault?  The trio at BIOWARE SOLD OUT.  They didn't need a publisher, they are were big enough company that they could publish it themselves, SWTOR had a large backing before EA took hold of the assets.  Unfortunately,  I think anyone in their shoes would of cashed out, but this is a money world and last I checked not everyone wants their dreams realised, and I think Garriot is more of a cash hungry guy than anything else, I wonder what his current financial status is.

Richard is rich as hell. He got 24 millions out of lawsuit against NCSoft.

Keep on rockin'!