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Shroud of the Avatar Forum » General Discussion » We want full open world, not instanced! And first post!

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70 posts found
  Salenger

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/29/04
Posts: 506

The true character of a man can be seen when they are given power.

3/20/13 6:04:42 PM#41
Game looks interesting, and will probably be a good RPG. But its not an MMORPG by any means and should not be on this site at all. I agree with everyone else, UO fans have waited and waited for its successor for years, this is not that.
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

3/21/13 4:41:25 AM#42
Originally posted by Salenger
Game looks interesting, and will probably be a good RPG. But its not an MMORPG by any means and should not be on this site at all. I agree with everyone else, UO fans have waited and waited for its successor for years, this is not that.

Well, since they have games like Diablo or Guild Wars 1 here, I don't see why this game should be here either.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1463

3/23/13 11:15:49 AM#43
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Yamota

Well imitator is maybe not the correct word but he does seem to have given up on MMOs and not trying to create a sucessor of UO but rather a single/lmited multiplayer game. And that is going backwards, from UO, not forwards.

Many out there may think that not catering to people like you may be a step forward. Your argument works two ways. Don't pretend you hold the ultimate truth - apparently most of the MMOs you disliked in the past are still doing just fine without you.

What you want is not the only possible way to do things - and definitely not the best success wise. But I wonder why I'm trying to explain that, considering your post history of intolerance towards any game that doesn't fit your precise rules of what a MMORPG should be.

You are making arguments which are not part of the discussion here. I am talking about working on UO and creating a successor for it. Obviously a non MMO would not be that and I dont see how my post history has anything to do with the fact that this guy did create the grandfathers of sandbox MMOs and it would make sense to build on that.

And that is a mistake. Raph Koster was the lead designer for UO, he basicly created UO. Back in that time Richard Garriott got a lot else to do. He was involved in the vision of a multiplayer kind of UO, but how it was actually handled was the part of Raph Koster.

And on the other side.. everything what we know up to now enables everything. It could be a Open World. Because as much as i read into it. It is more about the player in the client version. You will get a offline version. Ok. I got a offline version for Old UO, it doesnt change the gameplay on UO servers. You got a version where you can play just with your friends. Ok, i know one million freeshard UO servers, where basicly exactly that happens. It doesnt change how it plays on the usual OSI servers.

So.. i dont see anywhere that it is not open world. I will say that much, i liked almost all Ultima games, and i liked Ultima Online. I will wait and see what he is really cooking there, and will play test it. And after that i will judge it is a worthy game or not. But in all honestly, i believe Garriot is a quality game designer, and i am interested in what he is doing. But i am not that sure if he really is the MMO guru a lot of ppl made him, because actually he did not made that much when it comes to MMOs.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1463

3/23/13 11:19:17 AM#44
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
  • Fully Interactive World | Everything is interactive in one way or another.
  • Classless Character System | You won't be limited to any class, but instead will really be able to craft your own class.
  • Extensive Player Housing | There are several types of housing that will serve different purposes all together.
Sounds a lot like UO to me so far.
 
I don't expect Richard Garriot to repeat the MISTAKES he made in UO - notably forcing FFA PvP on everybody, something they had to revert with Trammel in order to stop the player bleeding. While this won't be pre-trammel UO made 3D, which would be doomed to failure (we all know how well FFA PvP games fare... very badly), it definitely takes root in the Ultima Games including UO.

Another mistake. Garriot left 2000 EA. And Trammel was introduced in 2000. So how much involvement of Garriot was in that one? Not a lot, if at all.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1463

3/23/13 11:30:07 AM#45
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

When TNG meets TOS... ;-)

I'd add one thing to the great post of BadSpock:

TRAMMEL KILLED THE GRIEFERS, NOT THE TRUE PVPers.

And that's fact. A specific category of "players" was angry because they could no longer gank harmless crafters just outside of town. They were angry because now, they had to fight skilled PvP players, those who would fight back and strip them naked, instead of them doing the stripping.

Everyone else was enjoying the change, and UO had more total players than it ever had.

Well.. as i see it as old time UO player and miner/crafter and pvper. Trammel killed the economy, because every single ore could be easily farmed to hell and the prices dropped down, and we got a hyper inflation.

That you have to do something against useless ganking or griefing is one thing, but to destroy pvp and the economy alltogether is the wrong one. Eve solved this problem a lot better. Another solution is serious consequences for some kind of pking. But to split the world is a bad idea and a bad solution, and bad game design. Imho, of course.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1913

3/23/13 11:34:34 AM#46
Originally posted by BrownAle

You know im getting fairly tired of this litmus test on games.  By that i mean "i can only enjoy a game if it has features X, Y,Z and cannot possibly like a game that has features A,B,C"

I mean really?  Are people these days so incapable of enjoying a game?  Not just with this game, but i see people who are not interested in games that DONT have player housing, or if it does it needs to be open world player housing (which has major issues with the game world and home avalibility btw)...

Seriously?  We cant possibly enjoy a game if it has instances?  We cant possibly enjoy a game if it has a certain feature or lacks another:?

 

People wonder why they cant find a game they like...its because the one specific game that you will like will never get made.  Play games for fun, stop with the 30 point checklist where one missing feature or one feature you dont like means your going to hate the game.  And yes, when you walk into a game expecting to hate it, chances are your not going to enjoy it.

 

Secondly, who cares what this guy wants to make?  Let him make the game as he sees fit and see if you like it, however i relaize most wont bother due to it failing the 30 point checklist.

 

Will i play it?  Well if it launches and looks decent i probably will. 

X, Y, Z are fun and A, B, C are not.  This is why people are picky about game features.  They can literally make a game worth playing or not.  I love chess, can't stand checkers.  They both use the same board, but have different features.  I love MMORPGs without raiding and PvP and any MMO that forces either on me, then it's dead in the water as far as I'm concerned.  I hate instancing as it removes the virtual world aspect when I'm looking for a more robust social experience.  Frankly, I shouldn't need to explain this to you.  People have every right to dislike a game for any reason what so ever.  It doesn't need to be valid in your eyes in order to be valid in theirs.

 

P.S. "....and looks decent...."  sounds like a qualifier to me and the very essensce of your argument against picky people.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

3/23/13 12:55:05 PM#47
Originally posted by Apraxis

Well.. as i see it as old time UO player and miner/crafter and pvper. Trammel killed the economy, because every single ore could be easily farmed to hell and the prices dropped down, and we got a hyper inflation.

That you have to do something against useless ganking or griefing is one thing, but to destroy pvp and the economy alltogether is the wrong one. Eve solved this problem a lot better. Another solution is serious consequences for some kind of pking. But to split the world is a bad idea and a bad solution, and bad game design. Imho, of course.

Splitting was a mistake indeed. It should have been separate servers instead. On that, and only on that, I agree with you.

As for you other posts, no, I'm not wrong, no, there's no mistake. Garriott was definitely involved in the whole UO development. UO is the vision of Garriott of a large fantasy game with a huge number people playing together in the same world. The initial UO team was Garriott, Starr Long and a third guy I don't remember the name right now, Koster arrived later during the development. Koster became lead developer, but Garriott was still producer. And yeah, he left in 2000, and Renaissance was released in 2000 too... that means he was in Origin all the time Renaissance was developped. He definitely knew about the issues created by uncontrolled FFA PvP.

But yeah, Trammel was a mistake in design (quite surprising coming from Koster, too), it should have been separated PvE servers with PvP as an option instead. No doubt about that.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7941

3/23/13 1:13:16 PM#48
Gw1 was too instanced.gw2 is just perfect.me as long as i ain't in dungeon style world and ain't meeting loading screen every inch(staring at ff14 that was free for a long while)I can compromise
  Shadowslady

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/09
Posts: 150

So Erling Ellingsen Thinks He's the Queen?

3/26/13 3:53:42 AM#49
It will be....sort of:  http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1aztsm/i_am_richard_lord_british_garriott_creator_of_the/

Shadowlord Sage
CmdrAkbar

Napa Valley, UO, 1997.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

3/29/13 7:32:18 PM#50

After reading the forums and what kind of community this "kickstarter - pay $500 or more if you want a house in game" model is going to breed, I decided to cancel my funding. This game is going to be a mess, and also a paradise for gold farmers. No way a normal person is ever going to get housing in there unless he pays a LOT of real life money for the plot.

Some on these forums have been pointing fingers at various games shouting "pay to win! pay to win!". Well, this game takes it to a whole new level. Even before it's released, the best housing locations will be owned by people who pledged $500 to $10000 to the game on kickstarter.

No way I'm going to be part of that. I'm gonna invest my money in games and to developers who are actually deserving it.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Cube34

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 1

3/30/13 2:18:55 AM#51
 I was subscribed and looked forward to what he was offering up. Seeing kickstarter completely turned me off. I'll still feel obligated to check it out. But I have less faith than I would expect for Garriott. Trammel was good and bad, but more good than bad the longer I thought about it. With regards to PvP, I was a hardcore faction player, occasionally Red vs Blue stuff. I came to really appreciate the split environment. When I stepped into Fel which was roughly 85% of the time, I knew everyone I saw was looking for a fight or was preppared to run for it. When I step into Tram, I knew everyone either wanted to be left alone, chat, or do business. With the economy, don't forget how helpful trammel was for the housing of the large player base. The PvP environment (base)home was more affordable. Trammel homes plus the subsequent expansion zones made for a great profitable realestate market which I participated in for the other 15% of the time. For me, it funded my successful faction efforts and the efforts of my partners. While during those times I thought I disliked Trammel. I came to realize it was the best thing that happened to the pvp AND pve community.  Atleast the pvp community that likes to be challenged.
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

3/30/13 8:39:06 AM#52
Originally posted by Cube34
 I was subscribed and looked forward to what he was offering up. Seeing kickstarter completely turned me off. I'll still feel obligated to check it out. But I have less faith than I would expect for Garriott. Trammel was good and bad, but more good than bad the longer I thought about it. With regards to PvP, I was a hardcore faction player, occasionally Red vs Blue stuff. I came to really appreciate the split environment. When I stepped into Fel which was roughly 85% of the time, I knew everyone I saw was looking for a fight or was preppared to run for it. When I step into Tram, I knew everyone either wanted to be left alone, chat, or do business. With the economy, don't forget how helpful trammel was for the housing of the large player base. The PvP environment (base)home was more affordable. Trammel homes plus the subsequent expansion zones made for a great profitable realestate market which I participated in for the other 15% of the time. For me, it funded my successful faction efforts and the efforts of my partners. While during those times I thought I disliked Trammel. I came to realize it was the best thing that happened to the pvp AND pve community.  Atleast the pvp community that likes to be challenged.

Trammel is the best thing that happened to UO simply because without Trammel, UO would have stopped existing. All those virtual muscle flexing PvPers like to ignore that without the PvE players to fund the game, their minority would have no game to play at all.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

4/02/13 1:41:52 PM#53
Originally posted by Salenger
Game looks interesting, and will probably be a good RPG. But its not an MMORPG by any means and should not be on this site at all. I agree with everyone else, UO fans have waited and waited for its successor for years, this is not that.

What a sad day....

 

 

"Though Shroud of the Avatar won’t be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game."

 

This travesty seems better suited for a Tablet. :(

 

 

HYPE LEVEL  :   ZERO!!!

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1983

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

4/27/13 11:28:08 AM#54
The fully seamless world was definitely one of the major things that made Ultima VII the game I liked the most in the series. I really hope they reconsider the current structure of the game world.

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2642

4/27/13 11:33:07 AM#55
Yes, this seems more like a evolution of the Ultima series, but not UO.  I was really hoping for UO2 basically, even if he changed it some to make it a little more friendly.  I don't have too much interest in this version, I will of course look at it more when its closer to being done, but it isn't really what I look for I don't think.
  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1983

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

4/27/13 11:45:29 AM#56
For me I'd love to see a new single player game in the series OR an Ultima Online 2 sort of deal. I'm not sure I'm that interested in this hybrid version, but I'll be looking in on it now and then since it's Ultima afterall.

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  jesteralways

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 562

4/27/13 11:56:51 AM#57
On the matter of instance and open world, i think there should be an option; a player choice; before entering dungeon or raid players should be able to choose if they want the instance to be public or open. that way if someone loves to be ganked while trying to kill boss can keep the instance open and be ganked while fighting boss. win-win for everyone.

i want a open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  Komandor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 260

6/06/13 2:17:02 PM#58
Ultima was open world, so why wouldn't this game? Anything else and it's a step back. Open world STRONG!

Keep on rockin'!

  stvnkrs10

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 28

6/07/13 9:13:24 AM#59
I find it amusing that people seem to think since they want an open world that everyone does. Not everyone likes pvp. I enjoyed Tram in UO and when I felt like it I went in to Fel. There's some days you feel like taking risks and other days you just want to mine and craft and maybe shop without having to look over your shoulder. I love the new OPO concept that if I want to participate in pvp then I can play myself pvp and I will see pvp players. I like how the system will smartly surround me with others that have the same interests as me. I dont want to have to have some 14 year old kid asking me for gold every time I go in to town or be forced to see people I don't care to. 
 
I am looking forward to Shroud. Bring on the next phase of Gaming!
  WereLlama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 205

6/07/13 9:20:11 AM#60

I think thoughtful instancing can be superior to non-instancing.

Personally, I think instancing can elevate a more Sandbox like environment by rewarding players with higher quality experiences for each zone based on how much they 'add' to the game.

When our game comes out this fall, we are using instancing as a 'reward' mechanism for adding value (vs grief play) to the game.

-WL

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