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Camelot Unchained Forum » General Discussion » The target is a small audience: but how will that keep a PvP MMO like CU interesting long term

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39 posts found
  Nidwin

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/12
Posts: 94

9/23/13 11:59:23 AM#21

It's easy mate.

 

Core RvRers stay till they screw up the game or turn off the lights. Till today we have been screwed over and over again for  PVE/Raid/dungeon expansions.

 

Fingers crossed on this one and I hope MJ has learn and understood it.

 

Nidwinqq rr100 Magus till the end 18th December 2013

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 182

9/24/13 3:42:09 PM#22

Yep. The entire game will be one realm building sandcastles and the other realms kicking them down.....

 

Which is really alot more fun then it sounds.

  Zinzan

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

9/25/13 4:22:43 PM#23

The single biggest problem is the mmo industry is moving and evolving quite rapidly these days, I would say their biggest problem is what the state of the industry and gamin gin general is when they launch.

GTA5 bust the $1bn mark in a matter of days, with the next gen consoles coming out, Steambox and technology moving at ever increasing pace it is entirely possible there might not be any significant PC gaming in three years from now.

This could be good or bad, if the target is a small niche player base this might not effect or even possibly benefit CU even if the mmo industry as a whole is on its knees. However if the industry moves wholesale to consoles and mobile devices, CU might well find itself out in the cold.

 

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 182

9/25/13 4:35:41 PM#24
Originally posted by Zinzan

The single biggest problem is the mmo industry is moving and evolving quite rapidly these days, I would say their biggest problem is what the state of the industry and gamin gin general is when they launch.

GTA5 bust the $1bn mark in a matter of days, with the next gen consoles coming out, Steambox and technology moving at ever increasing pace it is entirely possible there might not be any significant PC gaming in three years from now.

This could be good or bad, if the target is a small niche player base this might not effect or even possibly benefit CU even if the mmo industry as a whole is on its knees. However if the industry moves wholesale to consoles and mobile devices, CU might well find itself out in the cold.

 

I don't buy it. consoles were supposed to destory the PC with the PS and N64. Then they were supposed to die with the Xbox and the PS2.....

 

To be honest games like WoW, LoL, Dota 2, TF2 , Skyrim, and Minecraft have caused something of a PC renaissance. I think PC gaming is much better now then it was 5 years ago. With the price of next gen consoles growing it's soon going to be a wash between consoles and PC's. WHEN that happens(because it will happen) I think consoles will start to rapidly decline.

 

In terms of CU? Three years is a long way off..... I think CU's biggest issue will be not aiming high enough for system reqs and graphics, not being slain by consoles.....

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

9/25/13 4:37:46 PM#25
Originally posted by MMOExposed

But with a game that is nothing but non stop PvP, (hey even the PvE is limited in this game and no solo content) 

 
Both of these things are factually incorrect. And PvP games survive with low numbers, and slowly grow.
  ray12k

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 475

9/25/13 4:44:56 PM#26

When only .008% of  registered users log on to this site any given day...... How can anyone here really know what the majority of mmorpg'd want. I mean besides sales figures and subs being canceled. Oh and FTP games merging servers. And mind you most of the 100-200 who do log on never respond to a post ...

 

 

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 182

9/25/13 4:57:32 PM#27

Double Edit:

 

No one KNOWS what MMOers want. I think the long string of failed games, uncompleted projects and complete flops have proven that. Even more than that I don't think MMO players know what they want. That's why they are so hard to please.

 

CU will be a gamble, but IF it succedes it will be a great booon to the industry and possibly a step towards smaller more foucsed MMO games.

 

 

  Rhoklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 3117

$500 Backer to 2015's Top New MMO... The Repopulation!

9/25/13 5:14:42 PM#28
Originally posted by MMOExposed
The target is small audience for CU, but how will a small audience keep a PvP focused MMO interesting long term? Not like this game is f2p like GW2 was which has a lot to do with it retaining its PvP population.

 

But with a game that is nothing but non stop PvP, (hey even the PvE is limited in this game and no solo content) 

I can see this game getting very boring when population drops. And as that happens, more and more people will leave in a chain reaction.

 

PvP focused MMOs, need population to keep their interest. What's PvP without the "P"s.

 

Games like this should be aimed at greater sized audiences.

 

I predict a lot of bad game designs that will hold CU back from something of long term interest.

Google a game called Eve Online and you'll get your answer.

How is the PvE limited?

You mean like a WoW clone? No thanks.

  dave6660

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2350

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

10/25/13 3:44:03 PM#29

As long as the combat is fun and there is a constant motivation to beat up on your enemy then I don't see a problem.

I played Eve Online for years and did nothing but PvP.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/25/13 4:09:29 PM#30
Pure pvp games can work. Look at planetside 2, still got a healthy population a year out. Compare that to most of these rip off wow style mmos, most are dead in the water within a couple of months.
  Suilebhain

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/07
Posts: 38

10/25/13 4:17:12 PM#31

I hope this game works out, but not because I want to play it. In fact, I wouldn't touch it if it was the only game in town.

For years, people who enjoy a "whole game" experience had to listen to whiners who felt that the PvE portion of a game was a boring, repetitious "time sink" designed to keep them from doing what they really wanted to do - bash eachother's virtual  brains in. Some of us would say, "If that's what you want, go play Quake!" Planetside came out, and then that became the destination we would point them toward.

That wasn't what they wanted, though. They wanted a structured reward system based on beating up their fellow players. RvR gave Realm Points, Realm Ranks, and Realm Powers, just like PvE gave Experience, Levels, and Abilities. No difference, really, except the method of acquiring them. Of course, these people were once seemingly content with what the game had to offer, and it also seemed like the RvR portion of the game could have sustained itself out of "realm pride" (gods know that phrase was used more than enough to batter down anyone who balked at running to the frontier every time someone wanted dozens of bodies present) but once the taint of the reward system set in, there was no turning back.

This began the cycle of Haves and Have Nots that caused those who wanted lots of bodies present to say, 'Well, you just have to take your beatings and soon you will be able to apply the beating instead of just receiving it", which was bunk because those who kept beating you kept getting stronger until they became Realm champions against whom no one but another Realm champion ever had a hope of beating. The casual player was literally cannon fodder for this process and many went along with it out of a sense of wanting to belong, not to be left out or castigated for their lack of "realm spirit".

Jacobs is wise to focus on a small player base because, in the end, it really was a small base of people who wanted nothing to do with 75% of the game and only wanted to run around bashing each other, which, funny enough, actually turns out to be more boring and repetitious as the same few areas become the same battle grounds and rarely does anone employ strategy much beyond the zerg or the gank. Of course, the usual realm imbalance will cause these same folk to flock to the FOTM so they can be on the winning side and then the only problem will be for Jacobs to find suckers to come and play on the weak realms.

The bottom line of what I am saying is that having a game structured like this from the get-go is a good thing because it warns anyone who prefers the "whole game" experience to stay away and allows those people who get involved in something that has a strong Environment component and begins to whine when they find out that they actually will have to PLAY the game rather than get all the goodies at the end to have THEIR own theme park, one based on PvP conflict, and hopefully keep them out of whatever game I happen to be enjoying at that time.

  Speely

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

11/02/13 8:29:25 PM#32
Some other advantages of a smaller audience come to mind. Community feedback will mean that balance issues, so important to rvr players, can be addressed in a more focused manner since there will be no pve elements to factor in and the small player base is likely to mean that feedback will be more organized and originate from grouped efforts rather than a billion isolated voices.

As far as conflict availability, smaller is better in this case,i think. Peak hours should have number enough for massive battles since everyone is going to be contributing to rvr. Everyone. Even crafters. During slower hours, the game dynamic might change to a slower search and hunt or seek and subvert type dynamic which, for players like me, is a nice change from an all out war front. Variety is nice.

I see a smaller population as an advantage, and hopefully for every endless-zerg seeker it turns away it attracts two fans of tactical, objective-based battles.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  SJStrikers

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/13
Posts: 25

2/08/14 6:07:20 AM#33
Originally posted by MMOExposed
The target is small audience for CU, but how will a small audience keep a PvP focused MMO interesting long term? Not like this game is f2p like GW2 was which has a lot to do with it retaining its PvP population.

 

But with a game that is nothing but non stop PvP, (hey even the PvE is limited in this game and no solo content) 

I can see this game getting very boring when population drops. And as that happens, more and more people will leave in a chain reaction.

 

PvP focused MMOs, need population to keep their interest. What's PvP without the "P"s.

 

Games like this should be aimed at greater sized audiences.

 

I predict a lot of bad game designs that will hold CU back from something of long term interest.

If the pvp/rvr has a good ranking system and skill-based reward system that's relatively balanced like DAoC was it will hold a lot of players. I think there will be a lot of content that will keep players continueing to play. I never could get used to mmo's rewarding you with armor set pieces, and I don't see DAoC Unchained being anything like other pvp/pvp+pvp games out there and not just to a niche crowd- but for those who are literally unsatisfied. 

It's a little hard to make any kind of bad/good predictions at this point imo because theres just too many questions and too little to show. My prediction is that they are going to bring in not only good pvp gaming but also an amazing system to go along with it. I'd just expect the best for now. When content starts being finalized that's when to ask these kind of questions. Hard to say what niche your talking about because if you mean unsatisfied pvp/rvr players, yep that'd be me.

  will75

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/06
Posts: 275

2/08/14 6:44:03 PM#34

Backing the game is a no brainer, even if it's a 2 year pre order (buying a builders tier) why? Because if they didn't provide a game, and just said "oops sorry" , there would be a classaction lawsuit agains CSE llc, so it's coming out, How good it is. Well we'll wait and see. I know Mark has a lot of crazy idea's and darkness falls 2.0  is coming up soon less than 30k away.   http://camelotunchained.com/en/

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1272

2/13/14 11:17:58 PM#35
Originally posted by Ghavrigg
All I know is, they better not have the maps too large, because the last thing they need, is a very small playerbase spread out over a huge area.

-cough- Darkfall / Darkfall: Unholy Wars -cough-

That is to say, I agree wholeheartedly :)

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 182

2/14/14 12:49:59 AM#36

Personally I think PvE games are the ones that people lose interest in. In a PvE game the devs are in a constant race aginst the content locusts. People log-in.... chew through all the quests as fast as they can. Then get board and stop playing until the next X-pac+DLC+Content update.

 

In order to make a LASTING game. You've got to STOP MAKING A GAME!. A game's content is finite by definition. You can only make quests and raids so quickly and that is WAY slower than people can do them. If you mange to make a WORLD and give players the tools to make their own content. Then you can have a MMO that is ever changing while the devs can foucus on adding features and systems instead of creating bigger angrier monsters for you to go kill 10 of.

 

The best example of this is EvE. The amount of content that CCP has EVER made for EvE is pretty minimal. Instead they've given players the tools to make the game what they want. Players create the content by interacting with OTHER PLAYERS(*GASP*). It's a multiplayer game after all not a single player RPG. 


 

 

  Addikted

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/12
Posts: 32

2/14/14 9:08:54 AM#37
^ well said.
  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1272

2/14/14 2:27:59 PM#38
Originally posted by FlyinDutchman87

Personally I think PvE games are the ones that people lose interest in. In a PvE game the devs are in a constant race aginst the content locusts. People log-in.... chew through all the quests as fast as they can. Then get board and stop playing until the next X-pac+DLC+Content update.

 

In order to make a LASTING game. You've got to STOP MAKING A GAME!. A game's content is finite by definition. You can only make quests and raids so quickly and that is WAY slower than people can do them. If you mange to make a WORLD and give players the tools to make their own content. Then you can have a MMO that is ever changing while the devs can foucus on adding features and systems instead of creating bigger angrier monsters for you to go kill 10 of.

 

The best example of this is EvE. The amount of content that CCP has EVER made for EvE is pretty minimal. Instead they've given players the tools to make the game what they want. Players create the content by interacting with OTHER PLAYERS(*GASP*). It's a multiplayer game after all not a single player RPG. 

Indeed.

I've seen how well the human dynamic can work in terms of PvP in Lineage 2. Regardless of its other issues and the myriad ways NCSoft didn't keep up on them as well as  they could (should) have, one thing they absolutely nailed was the amount of freedom and influence they gave players in terms of PvP/Territory control and, most notably, the politics that played out around them.

They essentially created the world, defined the rewards, set the rules, and then got out of the way and let players have their way within it.

The result was an entirely player-driven political system that has been unmatched in any other MMO I've personally played that attempted such a thing. So much of what made L2's siege and territory control mechanics work came back to how players negotiated, declared their targets, chose their alliances, conspired, etc.

I've seen half the server unite against one mega Alliance that was dominating a large chunk of it, controlling certain content (Baium, etc) to take them out and end  their monopoly. I've seen huge, seemingly invincible alliances fracture and fall apart through spies infiltrating and destroying them from the inside out. I've seen entirely player-driven rules and "codes" established - entirely player-driven - and enforced.  

I was in a Siege once where a clan that had been friends of ours up to that point turned on us and helped our attackers take the castle away from us. We found they had been working toward that for a long time, as revenge for something we'd thought had been settled and long forgotten. There are mercenary groups who remain neutral in the back and forth and merely offer their services to the highest bidder. All of that is player-driven.

One of my favorite things to do upon returning to L2 from a break (of even a month) was to get caught up on all the goings-on. The push and pull of the servers' major powers, the rise and fall of alliances/clans,  the meetings held in private, protected channels on Vent/Teamspeak.. all of it.. created an incredibly dynamic and always fascinating experience.

It always bums me out when people say they couldn't get into the game because "it was just a grind". The grind was just a part of it. L2 was so much more than that, and it was all at the hands of the players, not pre-decided, static content.

Though it will be separated into separate factions, if CU can manage to inspire anything even close to that kind of dynamic (if the gamers of today are capable of cooperating on that level and maintaining that sense of "team pride" in their guilds/factions/etc), its players will be in for something truly awesome.

 

  SJStrikers

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/13
Posts: 25

2/15/14 10:16:02 PM#39
Camelot Unchained will be better then any pvp game on the market. I expect an amazing skill/rank system that will make this game addicting and fun. You'll see!
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