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Camelot Unchained Forum » General Discussion » Mark Jacobs and Company - Please do not REQUIRE monthly fees to play.

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264 posts found
  drakon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 114

3/22/13 3:24:09 PM#221
Can we PLEASE let this topic die?  MJ has already said there WILL be a sub.
  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1337

3/22/13 3:27:12 PM#222
Originally posted by CExy

Subscriptions aren't as evil as people are advocating here.

In my days there wasn't a single game that was for free and being required to work 3 hours for a month's play didn't bother me as a student for the sheer amount of joy I got out of DAoC (and AC before that!). 

However current day subscriptions seem fixed on mirroring blizzard's subscription model (with the evil 1 USD = 1 EUR conversion) instead of being competitive.

My guess is that most people that are now 'attacking' the monthly subscription model are the younger ones that are in a better spot than old time mmo-ers are, you have the freedom of choice. If you really think spending a couple of beer's worth per month is a bad investment for a good game....you've pirated too much ;) Go to the cinema for once! :D Hell I'm betting some of you pay a huge subscription just for having TV channels.

The point is that as low as 5 bucks a month is still a monthly subscription and might be all that is asked for the lower subscriptions. We don't know what it will be, we however do know that if a company is going to compete, it's not one of the big publishers. We also don't know if we are required to buy a box of 60 USD...

A free to play game attracts huge amount of crowds everytime they release something new to the game, take SWTOR, look at GW2. New events --> crowded server, afterwards a huge decline. For a RvR based server this is deadly, especially since you start right away with the PVP action. To avoid this a company would require some sort of investment, in this case a subscription.

Server splits/merges/overlfows are deadly for a Realm's community and CU is right to try to protect that.

Last but not least, it somewhat discourages realm switching/spying by making new free accounts.

TLDR:

  1. Subs aren't that expensive for the entertainment you get out of it.
  2. You have a choice...
  3. Pricing is not released.
  4. Players are required to do an investment to prevent crowding and uncrowding at 'special' times.
  5. It discourages realm switching.

Well said. I completely agree with you. Sad that it is more than a paragraph so most people here won't read it.

  kraiden

Staff Writer

Joined: 10/16/05
Posts: 641

The Original Hater

3/23/13 12:54:34 AM#223

I will never play a game for enjoyment thats Free to play, review them? Sure, but for my own casual at home consumption I know its a business. More money and more profits mean more work hours. more work hours = more patches. more patches = better product. Think about it, what killed warhammer? a rough spot when the economy in real life took a nose dive also the same time they had a major bugs that just didnt get fixed fast enough and made a large chunk of the population leave. and thats a company WITH subs.

compare how many patches came out for DAoC in the first  18 months compared to the number of patches that came out for LoTR. Even Guildwars which is selling like hotcakes still dosent have patches fast enough.

 

I will pay my 15 bucks per month. 80 of us pay 15 per month and thats the salary for a QA , change management or a Jr Dev.

  Stiler

Elite Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

3/23/13 1:41:58 AM#224
Originally posted by kraiden

I will never play a game for enjoyment thats Free to play, review them? Sure, but for my own casual at home consumption I know its a business. More money and more profits mean more work hours. more work hours = more patches. more patches = better product. Think about it, what killed warhammer? a rough spot when the economy in real life took a nose dive also the same time they had a major bugs that just didnt get fixed fast enough and made a large chunk of the population leave. and thats a company WITH subs.

compare how many patches came out for DAoC in the first  18 months compared to the number of patches that came out for LoTR. Even Guildwars which is selling like hotcakes still dosent have patches fast enough.

 

I will pay my 15 bucks per month. 80 of us pay 15 per month and thats the salary for a QA , change management or a Jr Dev.

 

I'm not sure what you're geting at here? ARe you implaying that a f2p game doesn't get patches fast enough, or have the means (money) to get them done in a timely manner?

 

It isn't like a free to play game developer constantly hires someone when they sell a few items on their cash shop then turns around and fires that person until they "sell" some more or something.

 

Guild Wars 2 for instance, has been having some decent NEW content patchest hat come around each month or so, compared to other mmo's that have sub's that dont' really get any new "content" updates rather maybe simple holiday events here and there but nothing major, until expansions and such.

I just don't see a connectiont o "patches" and f2p vs sub based, in my experience there's no huge difference vs them. If there' a bug or problem with the game, having the game be sub-based or f2p, the turn around to getting it patched seems similar to me regardless of where the money comes from. 

  Krille82

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 5

3/23/13 5:32:19 AM#225

I have played most f2p games out there. With that said im glad that this game is p2p. And in my experience p2p games has better updates, not bigger, not more frequent just plain better updates. A f2p game includes to much "cosmetic items" for the shops in their updates to make them more monies then actually give more content, a company will always ALWAYS focus on earning money, so aslong as CU stays sub based they can truly commit their entire team to making new content instead of ways to earn some xtra cash for their pockets.

 

And the fact that a sub based game will help the community thrive instead of getting overrun by everyone that just wants to follow the hype and have no idea what kind of game they are getting into. Sure most of those players might be "Easy Pickings" in an RvR game like this, but im here for the challenge and to cross swords with fellow RvR enthusiasts and not to browse a shop to buy a cool looking robe that has no impact on the gameplay just cause some ppl want to play for free

 

my 2 cents

  Aconsar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/10
Posts: 268

3/23/13 5:42:51 AM#226

The only F2P system I've ever remotely liked has been League of Legend's model, and even that is flawed.  Everything is obtainable by playing the game, over time, except for cosmetics though it will take a long time to get everything.  The reason this model works is the type of game setting.  F2P doesn't work in an MMO setting because there's not enough to sell that isn't power/game related and unbalancing the game.  The reason subscription model has and still works is because it allows you full access to everything, equal footing, while the developers maintain constant updates.

 

You see the flaw in the design recently?  Everyone is clamoring that subscription is bad/archaic/whatever, but the problem doesn't lie with the model itself.  It lies within the lazy development of companies that remain subscription based.  Look back at Asheron's Call, released in 1999.  It was originall $9.95 a month to subscribe and was made by a few college kids that is now Turbine itself.  With these limited resources and older technology, they managed to get out a monthly (yes, EVERY month) content update that added loads and loads of content, from new land, new creatures, new dungeons, new quests and almost always a continuation of storyline.  The only time the monthly content laxed was when it was so large, it took 2-3 months, which was rare, but did happen.  And those patches were so massive, it was game changing in both storyline and in game content.

Now how can a company over a decade ago produce such quality, monthly updates while companies like Blizzard only put out minor-moderate patches every 6+ months now?  Because we, as consumers, let them.  As long as people are willing to accept this absolutely piss-poor level of customer satisfaction and continue lapping it up like a starving kitten at a bowl of milk then it won't change.

 

The problem does not lie within the model, but the companies and we as gamers ourselves.

  evil13

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 359

3/23/13 6:45:37 AM#227
"Do you not understand, free to play doesn't have to equal "pay to win." There are many games that are free to play that aren't pay to win.

league of legends, tera, etc.

Doesn't promote longetivity? What data are you drawing this conclusion from? Any thing to back it up?

Like SW:TOR? Tera? LOTR:O, TSW, Age of Conan, etc? All those games started with a sub model and have moved to free to play and saw huge increases in their player base. On top of this many of them moved to this model within a year of being out or less, so if a sub provides more "longetitivty" it sure didn't work for them"

 

If  cash shop doesn't mean an auto win, then developers better work for free. Sure there are some decent f2p games out there, I am playing a few myself, but they are not mmorpgs (in my case it's facebook type games that I play) so the cost of development and maintenance is completely different. Can you really compare league of legends to an mmo like say swtor? or war or what have you? Clearly LoL is much cheaper to make, maintain and update.

 

Of all the mmos you listed (with exceptions of ones after swtor, I honestly lost interest in mmos after that so not sure what came out) none of this games wanted to be f2p. It was more of a "Oh, wow, everyone left our game after a few months... I guess we can shut down and lose millions, or since we already have this game, we can push it as f2p and get a ton of people and maybe even make some money"

 

I am quite certain that for a true mmorpg to go f2p (right from the release, not when they see that sub model doesn't work because their game is crap) is a no go as I doubt cash shop will pay for the development, especially if it's not a pay to win type of cash shop. It is however a good move for a dieing game, and helps it get more people and some cash.

 

  Hefaistos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/09/04
Posts: 85

3/23/13 6:53:08 AM#228

I also DIsagree.

 

Make it with SUBSCRIPTION. 

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

3/23/13 7:05:22 AM#229

IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol

if there is one thing 200% sure about CU its that it'll be sub based, with possibilities of multit-tier sub (i.e.family sub)
Mark said it so often in interviews
He HATES F2P (or as some calls it Pay-to-Win) models with a passion.
The only things that could be found in an in-game store could be cosmetic stuff, that is ALL.

IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol
IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!!! lol

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1348

3/23/13 8:40:04 AM#230

So, it's a kick starter and those who pay for the game to get made (i.e. those who support the KS) will then have to pay a subscription?

Seems a bit harsh to me.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  drakon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 114

3/23/13 9:06:05 AM#231
Originally posted by Zinzan

So, it's a kick starter and those who pay for the game to get made (i.e. those who support the KS) will then have to pay a subscription?

Seems a bit harsh to me.

Sounds normal to people who played 1st and 2nd generation MMO's.  Box price (or KS in this case) + monthly sub. 

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/23/13 9:07:43 AM#232

For everyone who is still anti-F2P: Try Path of Exile. Then compare it to D3 (unlimited funds).

You will find out that more money doesn't always equal better games.

  morfidon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 245

3/23/13 9:28:06 AM#233
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

For everyone who is still anti-F2P: Try Path of Exile. Then compare it to D3 (unlimited funds).

You will find out that more money doesn't always equal better games.

WTF

You compare NOT mmo game to CU.

 

D3 and Path of Exile has nothing to do with mmo.

  User Deleted
3/23/13 9:37:17 AM#234
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by morfidon

Also DISAGREE. I want a good community. Not a hoping players who jump from realm to realm.

I don't want also so many kids. 

10-15$ per month is very cheap. And it's good for overall quality of game. Let devs focus on game not on rewards for people who pay. 

BTW LoL is instant action game not a game like CU is gonna be. CU is gonna have legendary moments that might be unpredictable and we need it to be paid not free.

Ehh..as if there are no kids in P2P games right? 

Thank the Gods WoW has a P2P model. I hate playing with children...oh, wait...

  cinos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/05
Posts: 958

3/23/13 9:40:30 AM#235
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

For everyone who is still anti-F2P: Try Path of Exile. Then compare it to D3 (unlimited funds).

You will find out that more money doesn't always equal better games.

WTF

You compare NOT mmo game to CU.

 D3 and Path of Exile has nothing to do with mmo.

And yet they are still listed on MMORPG.com.

  Vannor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2886

3/23/13 9:43:19 AM#236

I agree that a sub as the only option is extremely bad for this game.

It needs to be a tiered ftp-sub game.

If PvP is centric, population is crucial. Things may be fine at launch with it being a sub only game but once most of the launch crowd dissappear it's going to destroy the main reason for playing.. RvR.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

3/23/13 9:46:46 AM#237
Get a job and you can play any game you want regardless of what the developer does.........
  Tyvolus4

Novice Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 126

3/23/13 9:48:53 AM#238
If the game is worth $15/month I will gladly pay it.  I doubt it will be worth it to me (long term at least).  As it stands today, there is not one MMO I think is worth a $15 monthly fee.  Going by his efforts in WAR, I cant see him making a long-term successful sub-based MMO.  Having said that, I hope he proves me wrong, but it is clearly old school to have the sub based MMO model...and there is nothing wrong with old school, I still play EQ.
  Searias

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 646

3/23/13 9:52:56 AM#239

I seriously don't see the point of threads like this, if you cannot or do not want to pay subs don't play this game. It's pretty simple no one is making you play it :P. Like Mark said over and over again, this game is aimed for a niche market and does not cater to everyone.

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  Zintair

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/21/08
Posts: 63

3/23/13 11:57:06 AM#240
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

For everyone who is still anti-F2P: Try Path of Exile. Then compare it to D3 (unlimited funds).

You will find out that more money doesn't always equal better games.

WTF

You compare NOT mmo game to CU.

 

D3 and Path of Exile has nothing to do with mmo.

MMORPG = Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

 

If they are RPGS... Online... and massively multiplayer then yes they are MMOs and can be comapred in a light to CU.

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