Trending Games | The Crew | Elder Scrolls Online | Lichdom: Battlemage | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,845,307 Users Online:0
Games:732  Posts:6,222,030
City State Entertainment | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Development  (est.rel N/A)  | Pub:City State Entertainment
PVP:Yes | Distribution: | Retail Price:n/a | Monthly Fee:n/a
System Req: PC | Out of date info? Let us know!

Camelot Unchained Forum » General Discussion » Ideas for Stealth Mechanics

2 Pages « 1 2 Search
33 posts found
  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

 
OP  3/02/13 12:19:31 PM#21

-I think it's kind of disingenuous for those of you who don't like stealth to suggest it be removed from the game design.  Recall that in DAoC, Stealth came in the form a spec line which offered ONE ability: STEALTH.  Speccing to 30 or so in the Stealth line cost a LOT of spec points.  Stealthers didn't get Stealth for free, Tanks didn't get Shield for free and Casters didn't get nukes for free... errr... wait a second... ;)  I don't like casters, but I certainly wouldn't suggest the game not include them.  The issue is how to make Stealth USEFUL in the GROUPvGROUP setting as opposed to the 1v1 setting, EFFECTIVE in that it remains a viable spec option not rendered useless by some "counter" ability, and BALANCED in that it does not become a dominant force with no way to mitigate it.  It is certainly the case that in many (or all(?)) other games, one or more of these components were missing.  Let's give MJ the benefit of the doubt and hope that he can include all three.

 

-I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that the Assassin Archetype be scrapped.  For our purposes, let's define the Assassin Archetype as a high stealth melee class with a large opening strike (dependent on stealth) and possibly the use of DoTs in the form of poisons or bleeds.  I believe it is extremely difficult to create a Stealth Mechanic which is USEFUL, EFFECTIVE and BALANCED while coupling it with that huge opening strike and large DoTs.  The DAoC implementation of the Assassin was certainly never USEFUL and some would argue it was not BALANCED.

A redesign of the archetype may be the way to go... perhaps more like a Blademaster with a highly limited Stealth mechanic only useful for reaching the rear flanks of a battle, not for opening up on a caster with a nuclear warhead-like strike.

 

-The Shadowbane Scout is a terrible idea, imo (I know because I played one... it sucked.)  This option would certainly not be EFFECTIVE and I'd argue it was not BALANCED in that the class just couldn't compete with other classes.  Seriously, who wants to be involved in RvR without actually participating in RvR? 

 

-I would propose a single Scout Archetype with the following characteristics:

A skill line/tree/path which provides increased movement ability while out of combat for the Scout, only. 

A skill line/tree/path which provides a Stealth Mechanic NOT INTENDED FOR COMBAT or to create a large opening strike, but rather to gain a visual (and perhaps positional) advantage on the enemy... perhaps these two lines could be combined into one. 

A pair of compteting skill lines, one ranged DPS, the other melee DPS, which could not both be pursued to great effect.

Perhaps a mechanic inheirant to this class only which allowed for the use of a wide range of weaponry and armor, but reduced the effectiveness of the Stealth/Speed abilities with heavier weapons and armor.

I believe something like this could be EFFECTIVE and BALANCED.  But the game design, itself, must provide for the USEFUL part.

 

-I believe MJ mentioned a functioning Day/Night system(?) (Did I hallucinate that?) If this were the case, I would love to see a Stealth Mechanic that suffered in the day and excelled in the night. 

-I would love a mechanic that was affected by terrain.  Imagine how the stealth dynamic could be affected by the mutable terrain MJ described in the post regarding elements of Chaos!

-I do NOT want to see in-game maps with flames, stars, crossed blades, sirens, smiley faces or any other type of indication of battle.  Let Scouts do their thing!

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  Vargur

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 142

3/02/13 4:06:12 PM#22
Originally posted by Tumblebutz

-I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that the Assassin Archetype be scrapped.  For our purposes, let's define the Assassin Archetype as a high stealth melee class with a large opening strike (dependent on stealth) and possibly the use of DoTs in the form of poisons or bleeds.  I believe it is extremely difficult to create a Stealth Mechanic which is USEFUL, EFFECTIVE and BALANCED while coupling it with that huge opening strike and large DoTs.  The DAoC implementation of the Assassin was certainly never USEFUL and some would argue it was not BALANCED.

-The Shadowbane Scout is a terrible idea, imo (I know because I played one... it sucked.)  This option would certainly not be EFFECTIVE and I'd argue it was not BALANCED in that the class just couldn't compete with other classes.  Seriously, who wants to be involved in RvR without actually participating in RvR? 

 -I would propose a single Scout Archetype with the following characteristics:

A skill line/tree/path which provides increased movement ability while out of combat for the Scout, only. 

A skill line/tree/path which provides a Stealth Mechanic NOT INTENDED FOR COMBAT or to create a large opening strike, but rather to gain a visual (and perhaps positional) advantage on the enemy... perhaps these two lines could be combined into one. 

A pair of compteting skill lines, one ranged DPS, the other melee DPS, which could not both be pursued to great effect.

Perhaps a mechanic inheirant to this class only which allowed for the use of a wide range of weaponry and armor, but reduced the effectiveness of the Stealth/Speed abilities with heavier weapons and armor.

I believe something like this could be EFFECTIVE and BALANCED.  But the game design, itself, must provide for the USEFUL part.

 

-I do NOT want to see in-game maps with flames, stars, crossed blades, sirens, smiley faces or any other type of indication of battle.  Let Scouts do their thing!

I like the useful, effective, balanced approach to stealth. Honestly, I don't want to see in-game maps at all. To me, they are a modern day crutch that take a lot from games. Make printable maps available, and let people learn to navigate. It wasn't that hard back in the early days.

One problem I can foresee with the mutually exclusive melee/ranged lines is the use of bows in melee. I enjoyed the fact that I could not shoot my bow when someone was hitting me, and it required a bit of skill to know when to switch to melee. I don't want to see archers using their bows and switching automatically to melee like they do in LotRO.

The big question regarding opening strikes is the continuation of the fight: Should the stealther be so soft that without a solid first strike he/she will retty much always die? Should they have some escape ability if the dices are against them? Should the softness be weak follow up damage or little survivability? How will buffs and dots fit into the picture? It is a lot of things to consider, but hopefully CSE pulls it off.

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/02/13 4:44:24 PM#23

IMO:

1) stealthers should be able to avoid full groups / zergs / fights that they cannot possibly win [modified permastealth]

2) they shouldn't be able to stealthzerg (solo or duo at most) [weaker stealth the more ally stealthers are nearby as someone else suggested]

3) there should be incentives/bonuses to destealth / not be in stealth 100% of the time. [-hp or -dmg after destealth if you spent a long time stealthed]

4) there should be ways a skilled stealther can find other stealthers (I had an infil buddy who mastered this skill in daoc) [the more time you spend stealthed the weaker your stealth and detection + after destealth there is a 20-30sec cooldown so you can't spam it]

5) having a better ping shouldn't be a major factor in stealth fights [separate EU/US servers with great pings for all hopefully]

  Stiler

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

3/02/13 5:34:44 PM#24
Originally posted by Vargur
Originally posted by Tumblebutz

-I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that the Assassin Archetype be scrapped.  For our purposes, let's define the Assassin Archetype as a high stealth melee class with a large opening strike (dependent on stealth) and possibly the use of DoTs in the form of poisons or bleeds.  I believe it is extremely difficult to create a Stealth Mechanic which is USEFUL, EFFECTIVE and BALANCED while coupling it with that huge opening strike and large DoTs.  The DAoC implementation of the Assassin was certainly never USEFUL and some would argue it was not BALANCED.

-The Shadowbane Scout is a terrible idea, imo (I know because I played one... it sucked.)  This option would certainly not be EFFECTIVE and I'd argue it was not BALANCED in that the class just couldn't compete with other classes.  Seriously, who wants to be involved in RvR without actually participating in RvR? 

 -I would propose a single Scout Archetype with the following characteristics:

A skill line/tree/path which provides increased movement ability while out of combat for the Scout, only. 

A skill line/tree/path which provides a Stealth Mechanic NOT INTENDED FOR COMBAT or to create a large opening strike, but rather to gain a visual (and perhaps positional) advantage on the enemy... perhaps these two lines could be combined into one. 

A pair of compteting skill lines, one ranged DPS, the other melee DPS, which could not both be pursued to great effect.

Perhaps a mechanic inheirant to this class only which allowed for the use of a wide range of weaponry and armor, but reduced the effectiveness of the Stealth/Speed abilities with heavier weapons and armor.

I believe something like this could be EFFECTIVE and BALANCED.  But the game design, itself, must provide for the USEFUL part.

 

-I do NOT want to see in-game maps with flames, stars, crossed blades, sirens, smiley faces or any other type of indication of battle.  Let Scouts do their thing!

I like the useful, effective, balanced approach to stealth. Honestly, I don't want to see in-game maps at all. To me, they are a modern day crutch that take a lot from games. Make printable maps available, and let people learn to navigate. It wasn't that hard back in the early days.

One problem I can foresee with the mutually exclusive melee/ranged lines is the use of bows in melee. I enjoyed the fact that I could not shoot my bow when someone was hitting me, and it required a bit of skill to know when to switch to melee. I don't want to see archers using their bows and switching automatically to melee like they do in LotRO.

The big question regarding opening strikes is the continuation of the fight: Should the stealther be so soft that without a solid first strike he/she will retty much always die? Should they have some escape ability if the dices are against them? Should the softness be weak follow up damage or little survivability? How will buffs and dots fit into the picture? It is a lot of things to consider, but hopefully CSE pulls it off.

 

In-game maps are fine, it depends entirely on how they are presented. Some games  back in the day had maps that worked more like real maps,t hey only showed the general landscape and other things. There were no waypoints, or quest markers, etc.  you had to read the map and then decide where you were going to go and clues to where you should go.

UO even went as far as having a cartogpher skill to make maps and things yourself, as well as "decoding" treasure maps, maps for sailing, etc.

Having an in-game map can add a function to Scouts with the ability to influence the maps of people within their group/guild.

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

 
OP  3/02/13 6:16:15 PM#25
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by Vargur
blah
Originally posted by Tumblebutz
blah

In-game maps are fine, it depends entirely on how they are presented. Some games  back in the day had maps that worked more like real maps,t hey only showed the general landscape and other things. There were no waypoints, or quest markers, etc.  you had to read the map and then decide where you were going to go and clues to where you should go.

UO even went as far as having a cartogpher skill to make maps and things yourself, as well as "decoding" treasure maps, maps for sailing, etc.

Having an in-game map can add a function to Scouts with the ability to influence the maps of people within their group/guild.

Don't misunderstand me... I have no problem with an in-game map.  I just don't want a map that shows where the action is, no flashing crossed blades, no flaming buildings, no GPS type notifications... just a plain ol' map. 

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  Bent

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/04
Posts: 577

3/02/13 10:25:43 PM#26

Very simply make it so that stealth, invis, camo, whatever has a chance to fail.  Fail=everyone can see you.  You have to reactivate the skill to reenter stealth.  Whether you are alone or in a group of enemies.  This part would have no bearing on who is around you.  Maybe at 10% chance to turn completely visiable every 15seconds.  Consider it the "I stepped on a stick chance"

 That chance could go up or down depending on environment.  In an enemy keep, outside in the courtyard in the middle of the day, maybe 70% chance to drop stealth every 15secs.   

The point is to cause the risk vs reward equation to play in a players mind.  "That is a lot of open space to cover, in order to attack that enemy....  I probaby have a 50/50 chance of getting to him without popping." 

If you are in good position, and don't have a long ways to travel without cover stealth could be very effective.  If you are going to try to jump out of a surronded keep in the middle of the day to go flank the attackers healers... you would have a pretty low chance.

In DAoC everytime your walked through gate you were gambling with your life.  A stealther standing in the middle of the road in full daylight shouldn't have a 100% sureity of staying hidden.    

As a shaman (a short shaman) I hid behind trees as entire relic zergs ran by.  It isn't hard to use cover effectively on a enemy that doesn't know you are around.  The combination of stealth with cover should be preferred to having stealth be so effective stealthers have no reason to seek cover.

-      

 Certain classes could also invest in uncovering stealth, but for only themselves.  In this case it could be like the old DAoC.   If you have the right skill you have an easier time of seeing stealthers, but you didn't pass sight to the rest of your team.  

-

I do like the idea of the more stealther in one area the less effective their stealth becomes.  But I think my idea above covers that.  If all stealther have a flat chance to pop at of stealth, if there was a group of eight stealthers that would be a 80% chance for at least one of them to pop out every 15seconds.  That would be enough to alert anyone around.  

  Ellya

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 99

3/03/13 9:14:36 AM#27

Someone earlier mentioned the Thief games, where stealth was very much dependent of where you were and how much light there was.

I've never been a fan of invisibility in broad daylight and no cover. It doesn't make sense for non-magic users.

Also, climbing trees. Oh lord, how I'd love to be able to climb trees in a game!  Imagine, a treetop ambush, a la Robin Hood!

The army passing underneath and suddenly a hail of arrows and people dropping all around them to attack. Wonderful!

  BowbowDAoC

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

3/03/13 12:02:52 PM#28

I will also add a few ideas that i had a while ago some ideas wont be really well explained due to my lack of perfect english but you ll get the general ideas:

-  the more stealthers are close together, the more likely they could be detected.

-With all the graphic possibilites computers have now, the light/shadow effect could be an important part in stealth, so could be distance and obviously the surrounding. It should be very easy to stealth in forest, caves, and i.e. very hard in the desert


- make different level for "spotting" a stealthed player; detecting a stealthed character in the distance should not necessarly mean you can target and attack him, you could catch a glimpse of a movement of something moving between trees. one lonely stealther would obviously attract less attention than a dozen.

- original idea here following i think : disable group/guild chat while in stealth mode; no no wait let me finish ! a group of stealthers shouldnt be able to talk while stealthed, instead, make a variety of sounds as only means of communications between stealthers (owl, bird whistle, howling, moose etc) obviously, ennemies could hear the noise too, or not (depending on what else is implemented for stealth). it would require for the stealthers alot more strategies to be efficient, and would add some nice realism.

- Maybe add different speed movement when stealthed. should be harder to detect a stealther crawling behind trees than one that is jogging on a road. Combined with the surrouding modifier, the speed of movement could be another great addition.

- In some places, it should be impossible to stealth, unless you are crawling i.e. the bridges in NF back in DAoC.

crawling along the wall of the bridge could be possible, but not standing on the ledge, jumping and emoting

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4739

3/03/13 12:26:13 PM#29
Originally posted by Tumblebutz

-I think it's kind of disingenuous for those of you who don't like stealth to suggest it be removed from the game design.  Recall that in DAoC, Stealth came in the form a spec line which offered ONE ability: STEALTH.  Speccing to 30 or so in the Stealth line cost a LOT of spec points.  Stealthers didn't get Stealth for free, Tanks didn't get Shield for free and Casters didn't get nukes for free... errr... wait a second... ;)  I don't like casters, but I certainly wouldn't suggest the game not include them.  The issue is how to make Stealth USEFUL in the GROUPvGROUP setting as opposed to the 1v1 setting, EFFECTIVE in that it remains a viable spec option not rendered useless by some "counter" ability, and BALANCED in that it does not become a dominant force with no way to mitigate it.  It is certainly the case that in many (or all(?)) other games, one or more of these components were missing.  Let's give MJ the benefit of the doubt and hope that he can include all three.

 **snip**

-I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that the Assassin Archetype be scrapped.  For our purposes, let's define the Assassin Archetype as a high stealth melee class with a large opening strike (dependent on stealth) and possibly the use of DoTs in the form of poisons or bleeds.  I believe it is extremely difficult to create a Stealth Mechanic which is USEFUL, EFFECTIVE and BALANCED while coupling it with that huge opening strike and large DoTs.  The DAoC implementation of the Assassin was certainly never USEFUL and some would argue it was not BALANCED.

**snip**

You kinda touch on one of the main reasons why stealth is generally bad design. It is a crutch game designers use to simplify things. I don't think that being 'stealthy' should be removed from the game, but I'd argue that there are MUCH better ways to implement 'stealth' or scout-type classes other than giving them a magic 'your invisible!' button.

Maybe it's too early to change from the status quo on stealth, in which case I would agree that removing opening strike mechanics from stealth would be a very good start. I would, however, love to see games start ecorperating stealth via solid map design, and not permanent invisibilty.

Some examples:

- Have stealth dependant on lighting; harder to see @ night / in shadows, hard to stealth in daylight / light.

- Tie scout classes more towards mobility instead of stealth. Give them teleports, abilities to climb / traverse certain terrain that other classes can't, remove penalties for moving across certain terrain types.

- Create maps that allow people to use terrain effectively to hide / ambush / scout / etc. Have well placed bushes & trees, rocks to hide behind, cliffs & valleys, etc.

- If you're gunna go w/ displayed name tags, work that into the stealth mechanic. Give scouts the ability to change / disable their name tag for a time, making it harder for people to tell what's there.

I'd very much like to see MMORPGs start taking ques from other games that have rogue-type gameplay, but don't rely on 100% invisibility. Typically, for group gameplay (BF, PS2, etc.) scouts tend to be the class with the most visibility (able to spot / mark targets from a long distance), one of the most mobile classes, and one of the quietest (best able to setup ambushes). Smarter players will be able to sneak into an enemy's base, setup traps, etc. and I think that is how it should be.

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/03/13 1:09:52 PM#30
Originally posted by Tumblebutz

-I think it's kind of disingenuous for those of you who don't like stealth to suggest it be removed from the game design.  Recall that in DAoC, Stealth came in the form a spec line which offered ONE ability: STEALTH.  Speccing to 30 or so in the Stealth line cost a LOT of spec points.  Stealthers didn't get Stealth for free, Tanks didn't get Shield for free and Casters didn't get nukes for free... errr... wait a second... ;)  I don't like casters, but I certainly wouldn't suggest the game not include them.  The issue is how to make Stealth USEFUL in the GROUPvGROUP setting as opposed to the 1v1 setting, EFFECTIVE in that it remains a viable spec option not rendered useless by some "counter" ability, and BALANCED in that it does not become a dominant force with no way to mitigate it.  It is certainly the case that in many (or all(?)) other games, one or more of these components were missing.  Let's give MJ the benefit of the doubt and hope that he can include all three.

 

-I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that the Assassin Archetype be scrapped.  For our purposes, let's define the Assassin Archetype as a high stealth melee class with a large opening strike (dependent on stealth) and possibly the use of DoTs in the form of poisons or bleeds.  I believe it is extremely difficult to create a Stealth Mechanic which is USEFUL, EFFECTIVE and BALANCED while coupling it with that huge opening strike and large DoTs.  The DAoC implementation of the Assassin was certainly never USEFUL and some would argue it was not BALANCED.

A redesign of the archetype may be the way to go... perhaps more like a Blademaster with a highly limited Stealth mechanic only useful for reaching the rear flanks of a battle, not for opening up on a caster with a nuclear warhead-like strike.

 

-The Shadowbane Scout is a terrible idea, imo (I know because I played one... it sucked.)  This option would certainly not be EFFECTIVE and I'd argue it was not BALANCED in that the class just couldn't compete with other classes.  Seriously, who wants to be involved in RvR without actually participating in RvR? 

 

-I would propose a single Scout Archetype with the following characteristics:

A skill line/tree/path which provides increased movement ability while out of combat for the Scout, only. 

A skill line/tree/path which provides a Stealth Mechanic NOT INTENDED FOR COMBAT or to create a large opening strike, but rather to gain a visual (and perhaps positional) advantage on the enemy... perhaps these two lines could be combined into one. 

A pair of compteting skill lines, one ranged DPS, the other melee DPS, which could not both be pursued to great effect.

Perhaps a mechanic inheirant to this class only which allowed for the use of a wide range of weaponry and armor, but reduced the effectiveness of the Stealth/Speed abilities with heavier weapons and armor.

I believe something like this could be EFFECTIVE and BALANCED.  But the game design, itself, must provide for the USEFUL part.

 

-I believe MJ mentioned a functioning Day/Night system(?) (Did I hallucinate that?) If this were the case, I would love to see a Stealth Mechanic that suffered in the day and excelled in the night. 

-I would love a mechanic that was affected by terrain.  Imagine how the stealth dynamic could be affected by the mutable terrain MJ described in the post regarding elements of Chaos!

-I do NOT want to see in-game maps with flames, stars, crossed blades, sirens, smiley faces or any other type of indication of battle.  Let Scouts do their thing!

Great post.

I have never played a stealth class as my main in any MMO, but I've had lot of alts and battled plenty of them.  A lot of people say that stealth is a crutch, but I disagree completely.  In ancient warfare, humans didn't have "stealth" but we certainly had individuals that excelled at being stealthy even beside a massive army.

I'd like to see things implemented that allowed stealthers to temporarily go stealth, but remove the ridiculous front end burst damage that every stealth class has in every game.  Instead, give the class utility that can be used in solo and group combat.  When I think of a stealthy assassin, I think of someone that goes after a specific target and completely shuts them down.

If stealth classes are placed into the game, I'd like to see it not have permanent stealth, but also be able to slip inside towers/keeps as long as a single player could not kill the lord guarding it.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Wolvan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/04
Posts: 50

3/03/13 6:03:42 PM#31
Originally posted by Tumblebutz

-I think it's kind of disingenuous for those of you who don't like stealth to suggest it be removed from the game design.  Recall that in DAoC, Stealth came in the form a spec line which offered ONE ability: STEALTH.  Speccing to 30 or so in the Stealth line cost a LOT of spec points.  Stealthers didn't get Stealth for free, Tanks didn't get Shield for free and Casters didn't get nukes for free... errr... wait a second... ;)  I don't like casters, but I certainly wouldn't suggest the game not include them.  The issue is how to make Stealth USEFUL in the GROUPvGROUP setting as opposed to the 1v1 setting, EFFECTIVE in that it remains a viable spec option not rendered useless by some "counter" ability, and BALANCED in that it does not become a dominant force with no way to mitigate it.  It is certainly the case that in many (or all(?)) other games, one or more of these components were missing.  Let's give MJ the benefit of the doubt and hope that he can include all three.

 

-I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that the Assassin Archetype be scrapped.  For our purposes, let's define the Assassin Archetype as a high stealth melee class with a large opening strike (dependent on stealth) and possibly the use of DoTs in the form of poisons or bleeds.  I believe it is extremely difficult to create a Stealth Mechanic which is USEFUL, EFFECTIVE and BALANCED while coupling it with that huge opening strike and large DoTs.  The DAoC implementation of the Assassin was certainly never USEFUL and some would argue it was not BALANCED.

A redesign of the archetype may be the way to go... perhaps more like a Blademaster with a highly limited Stealth mechanic only useful for reaching the rear flanks of a battle, not for opening up on a caster with a nuclear warhead-like strike.

 

-The Shadowbane Scout is a terrible idea, imo (I know because I played one... it sucked.)  This option would certainly not be EFFECTIVE and I'd argue it was not BALANCED in that the class just couldn't compete with other classes.  Seriously, who wants to be involved in RvR without actually participating in RvR? 

 

-I would propose a single Scout Archetype with the following characteristics:

A skill line/tree/path which provides increased movement ability while out of combat for the Scout, only. 

A skill line/tree/path which provides a Stealth Mechanic NOT INTENDED FOR COMBAT or to create a large opening strike, but rather to gain a visual (and perhaps positional) advantage on the enemy... perhaps these two lines could be combined into one. 

A pair of compteting skill lines, one ranged DPS, the other melee DPS, which could not both be pursued to great effect.

Perhaps a mechanic inheirant to this class only which allowed for the use of a wide range of weaponry and armor, but reduced the effectiveness of the Stealth/Speed abilities with heavier weapons and armor.

I believe something like this could be EFFECTIVE and BALANCED.  But the game design, itself, must provide for the USEFUL part.

 

-I believe MJ mentioned a functioning Day/Night system(?) (Did I hallucinate that?) If this were the case, I would love to see a Stealth Mechanic that suffered in the day and excelled in the night. 

-I would love a mechanic that was affected by terrain.  Imagine how the stealth dynamic could be affected by the mutable terrain MJ described in the post regarding elements of Chaos!

-I do NOT want to see in-game maps with flames, stars, crossed blades, sirens, smiley faces or any other type of indication of battle.  Let Scouts do their thing!

 

Great Post Emercy!  Good to see some old foe's out and about.

Stealth wasn't overpowered in DAOC.  It was annoying, and deadly for the solo player and small groups.  But large armies where not effected by stealth except for one way.  Scouting.

I played a shadowblade for most of my DAOC time.  I scouted, killed gankers and spent most of my time in the midgard frontiers scouting and defending.  When relic raids where incoming to Midgard I was out in the lead scouting enemy numbers and reporting...often gaining no RP for the evening in the defense of realm.   Yes, their was gankers and it was annoying...but it didn't change the end game. 

Stealth and scouting are needed for a good real RvR campaign.    Otherwise you end up with DAOC New Frontiers where scouting was no longer required because the game told you where everything was.  It was horrible, and the beginning of the end for many stealth players. 

  falcuk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 41

3/04/13 7:32:53 AM#32

+1 for decent Stealth mechanics tbh.

I started playing DAOC as a Hibby Ranger (elf!) and i think i was level 30 something before i realised that i could goto Instanced PVP  to learn the game, Uptil this point i hadnt realised what stealth was for and hadnt put any points into it, that was a baptism of fire and a respec was soo done lemme tell ya.

I have Low RRish Stealthers on all realms (most of em are RR4 - RR7) and i also have Group characters (Bard and Eld were my 2 main characters for group play) and i cannot agree more with the importance of stealthers.

Sure we all been rolled by that lucky Archer who picked on us in a group vs group fight and died before we realised what had happened, but thats life im afraid.

Anyone thats played a stealther extensively will tell you its not a game of moving from 1 target to another dispatching them cleanly in 3 seconds before insta stealthing and moving on.

More often than not your fighting over stealthers and most stealthers hunt in the same areas, so the likelyhood of a 1 on 1 isnt high, normally you jump someone who you think is solo to see a few friends of his destlealth and hand you your ass lol.

As people pointed out, stealthers are great for reporting movement of enemy forces, and fringe skirmishing, i used to watch the big fights and occasionally you would get somneone run off to hide and heal or something, those were my targets, selectvie assassin? sure, coward? not really, i was just doing a job thats all.

I think the stealth mechanic in DAOC was superb, i would however lose shields from scouts hahahaha

  falcuk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 41

3/04/13 8:32:23 AM#33

Some other things i just been thinking about for Stealth Classes, with Mark saying we would probably get skills based on our activities and whatnot.

Let Scouts have stealth is a given, give them a bow, let them fire visible flares into the sky or smoke etc that would maybe ping the minimap or whatnot to locate closeby realm mates of conflicts etc, this would make me feel useful as a stealther, if it generated RP's on any deaths in teh vicinty of the smoke / flare etc even better.

Maybe further down this line give them the ability to mark the map with info for small durations, 10 - 15mins etc on a timer.

2 Pages « 1 2 Search