Originally posted by Nidwin

Originally posted by Odaman
=p now I'm worried... seems people don't remember how terrible CD was in war. I really hope they don't waste resources on this... because I doubt it gets done right on a low budget.

 

CD in war is done well, what are you actually talking about?

It's not because you hate it or can't handle it that you have to freaking lie about stuff that's well done in warhammer. They did a few things right at launch, CD was one of those things.

It worked against allies, against enemies it hardly ever worked (except when banners had CD and you couldn't walk through those). Yes you could tank wall a bottleneck and it'd be somewhat efficient at keeping some people out, but many times you could walk right through if you were jumping, or strafing. It's not a lie just because you couldn't find a way to counter it. I actually liked the idea of CD before war, then I saw how ineffective it really was... so my point is why bother if you can't get it right. Thinking they'll do it right on a low budget when they couldn't with war's budget is naive. If they can do it well I'm all for it, but I don't see how they can.

Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

I'm very scared about the amount of people that want CD just because it's "stupid you can run through someone else"

This is a game, remember that. There's only so much "realistic" aspects that make sense to bring into this game... this is not one of them -_-

Except it is, for anyone that would like to play the "tank" sort of character and be able to  help protect others and such.

Of course there shoudl be ways to counter, and non-counter it, such as giving tank type palyers a "hunker down" ability or such where they become immovable for "x" time.

Mages for example, could spec to be able to knock people out of the way, etc.

I played WaR and they had some great feeling ways to knock those pesky tanks around that would try and block for their healers/mages.

This open sup new strategies, and actually helps make the game feel more grounded and strategic because of the  CD.

Didn't anyone of you play DAOC?

Tanks were a staple in RVR, 99% of groups had one, warrior/hero/arms.

Unless you're specifically talking about the 5 people that want to take a shield and tiny sword into combat and expect to be useful, which just doesn't make sense to me. Tanks were designed for PVE ... PVE TANKING MOBS... this is a PVP game, so why cater to the PVE focused class?

I want CD because I want fights to look like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AP7XCCUcug

When real life has fireballs and spells flying around from the hands of humans you can start comparing to a more real life scenario.

The problem with having CD with enemies and not allies is it makes your argument for realism not fullfilled.  And people will find ways to exploit and grief somehow some way with CD.

I fear the drive for realism gets too severe, people should step back and see what actually works better from a balanced fair with smooth clean gameplay.

Good luck on your quest to get CD into this game, I truely hope it never sees the light of day. I fear the people that want it are the ones that are going to continue game hopping soon as the next "cool unique real life" thing gets put into another game.

Originally posted by Auedar

I played WAR as a tank (Ironbreaker, they were OP as shit:P) and having collision detection in RvR was the only reason I didn't reroll for end game PvP. The only thing I could really do was block people at choke points on the stairs, punt people back, etc. I used this mechanic extensively in instanced PvP since you could have to get around me in order to get to my healer, meaning I could manipulate how a player had to move, and could use the terrain accordingly (in the lower tiers there was a volcano and I loved punting people into the lava and see them die)

But in all seriousness, if a mass zerg of players (40+ usually when I played) couldn't burst me down when needed, that's their complete lack of skill or lack of trying. The only thing I could do was plug up choke points so that ranged classes could wreak havoc with coordinated AE attacks. 

Collision detection adds a whole different element to the game where you have to be situationally aware, and some players don't like that since you can't macro that in. It also made it so a small group of coordinated players (we usually rolled with around 15 players) could completely own random zergs of 40+ people.

If they do not have collision detection, they would need to suppliment that with giving tanks extensive ranged abilities so they have something to do while defending.

 I think CD needs it to block all not just enemies.  Also, with CD you should add friendly fire.  FF adds a whole different element to the game.  IF your team can't deal with friendly fire that's their lack of skill.

You can never have a MMO with FF, there's way too many opportunties for griefing ... Whos going to stop the guy in the back ae nuking his own realm in a zerg vs zerg fight, destroying his teams chances to win because he's able to spam without being interupted. There will always be people out there that do this, and it has nothing to do with anyones skill.

Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

You can never have a MMO with FF, there's way too many opportunties for griefing ... Whos going to stop the guy in the back ae nuking his own realm in a zerg vs zerg fight, destroying his teams chances to win because he's able to spam without being interupted. There will always be people out there that do this, and it has nothing to do with anyones skill.

 

 

 Getting sick of that EXCUSE

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

You can never have a MMO with FF, there's way too many opportunties for griefing ... Whos going to stop the guy in the back ae nuking his own realm in a zerg vs zerg fight, destroying his teams chances to win because he's able to spam without being interupted. There will always be people out there that do this, and it has nothing to do with anyones skill.

 

 

 Getting sick of that EXCUSE

In a game built around RVR having FF would detract from that. Any time you have the ability for people to attack anyone and hurt/kill them in a game it will be open to griefing.

If the game is built around open pvp, that's one thing, like UO and others (Where pking people led to turning "red" and other drawbacks) however for a team based game, like this, with realms fighting other realms, friendly fire has more disadvantages, then advantages.

Yes it would make people more ewary about aiming, but you'd have griefers team killing, and you'd have to hire people to ban those people, monitor it, etc. However you'd also have people that accidentally kill their own team (it iwll happen even if you don't mean too, especialy with aoe's, etc) and then you'll be open to  a world of mess trying to get tkers banneda nd non tkers now.

It's more trouble then it's worth to do it then.

Originally posted by Xobdnas

Collision detection is something that my friends and I have used to our advantage but sadly we haven't seen an MMO do it well. Without it we don't have a chance of recreating the situation from 300 but with it we might suffer from insane lag issues.

I have also seen where warriors have a shield wall command that gives them a temporary cast/maneuver with a timer that functions like a shield wall.

Any thoughts or ideas?

City of Heroes did collision detection pretty well.  Tanks could actually clog doorways taking hits to protect squishies.  Alas, you missed that boat since NCsoft closed the studio.  Not sure I've seen another good implementation of CD in an mmo either.