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Camelot Unchained Forum » General Discussion » Gamer Concerns/Comments (From Massively)

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48 posts found
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/21/13 1:49:50 PM#41
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by meddyck
Originally posted by jtcgs

DaoC started the PvP for ADD kids. It placed all PvP into one area, funnelled you into it(yeah I know boarderlands). It took away any actual need to plan, prepare, roam, scout...cause YOUR lands were safe, your focus was set for you, onto one small controlled area.

It was the beginning, other games listed merely built on the limitations created by DaoC. And now after actually having a short back and forth with the man, then listening to yesterdays podcast, he has shown he hasnt actually learned much over the last 13 years. In fact, I cannot think of ANY OTHER game designer that has made 3 MMOs that are built on the exact same structure like he wants to do! Closed faction areas, funneled PvP...its mindboggling, no evolution at all. Worse yet, it would seem that DaoC had a great many designers that have the same issue when looking at TESO, a whole lot of people that havent learned knew game design structures.

it doesnt boad well for this games future. Oh wait, he is targetting a small amount of players...so maybe there is a chance that he will succeed in making a game a few people will like. Hey, best way to do something good is to aim low!

Clearly you never played DAOC. Your "small controlled area" was actually 4 very large zones per realm.

 Clearly you had nothing real to refute so fell back on trying to discredit me...only to actually discredit yourself.

That is what happens when you cant actually think of a way to refute the points being made...which is that DaoC was the FIRST MMO to funnel players into a controlled PvP envoirment by the game makers who felt the need to force reasons to PvP on you. Something games that came after built on.

DaoC was the cause of what the person I replied to was complaining about.

Huh?  You sometimes need to admit when you are wrong.  And you clearly were wrong here.  Did you play DAoC?

 Huh? You sometimes need to admit when you are wrong. And you clearly were wrong here as I will highlight the above and MAKE IT EVEN BIGGER FOR YOU.

Clearly I mentioned the borderlands, the frontier maps.

See, even when you try so hard to take one tiny thing being spoken about out of the whole, you still cannot defend the game properly...speaks volumns about how bad for gaming fanboys are...I mean,you cant even prove a point when taking a person out of context!

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 1:53:36 PM#42
Lol jtcgs

Could you spout any more bullshit.

No need to scout - lolity frikin lol, no wonder your imaginary 400 man guild all quit on the same day you must have got owned hard.
  Tadder

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 38

2/21/13 2:21:54 PM#43
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Tadder
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Canan
Jtcgs, seriously just stop. You are sounding pretty outlandish and the weak points you are trying to construct just don't work. Promise.
Originally posted by Fly666monkey

Absolutely, and you are very much correct about the Rose Colored Galsses bit, and sadly that statement seems to apply to a very large chunk of the people who frequent MMORPG.com

If Dark Age of Camelot was such a good PvP game, why is it all but abandoned these days? If UO was the perfect sandbox, why is it on life support now? Etc, Etc.

 Guess thats why you cant seem to actually refute anything being said Canan...because you have no points to even BE weak. Some people like the one quoted above...could actually formulate a thought, put it into words and add to the conversation...all you can do is whine and cry about someone being "wrong" and provide no evidence to back it.

This isn't even a good argument. UO and DAoC have low subcription numbers now largely because they are 14-16 years old, and at some point players do get tired of old graphics and the same game. Also factor in that a lot of older games have had disasterous expansions or changes done to them after release that cut subscriptions overnight (NGE for SWG or ToA for DAoC are often sited as such.) At it's peak DAoC had a very strong subscription number relative to that period of MMOs.  And how many games are still alive past 10 years?

WoW is 9 years old and at 9.6 million subs, an amazing accomplishment. You can easily say WoW has been the greatest success by subscription numbers, and I guess by the logic you quoted above, it is the best game of MMO history? Something that, from looking at your previous posts, i doubt you would agree with.

It's good to see that the only pepole capable of formulating thoughtful responses are those who agree with your side of an argument.

Odd, because LIneage is older than DAoC and just a little bit younger than UO and has more than a million Asian subscribers.  It's more popular than UO and DAoC put together for their entire lifetimes.  It has 2.5D isometric sprite based graphics and actually *is* considered the best pvp mmo ever.  daoc not only isn't considered the best pvp game, but isn't even close to being the best pvp mmo.

I always see this same sort of excuse from people who want their clones - the old game did change X and ruined it for me - the old game's graphics are too ugly.  Yet, they think this new clone will solve all those problems.

There is a lot of optimisim about this game and it doesn't even have a foundation yet, except for some brainstorming blog posts.  The big question that Jacobs hasn't answered yet (that I can find) is the business plan.  How much is the game going to cost to make and how is does he plan on paying for it and generating revenue to fund continued development.  Don't bring out the daoc cost $2M to make because this isn't 10+ years ago.  Does he really think he can make a game for $2M?  Then he needs to show the business plan to make that happen. 

Lineage shut down all their NA servers in 2011, and DAoC and UO are still around. Doesn't seem like that relates to the North American Market?

I think the story is always the same because it happens a lot. The NGE for SWG was a totally different game, and I went and played emu pre-nge servers for a bit a few years ago.

You're right though to some degree. there is definetely a "golden era" issue that goes on with games. The games were certainly not perfect, SWG lacked any real PvP besides open world when i played it. I don't want a clone, but rather some kind of biologically related MMO.

I've read that if the KS hits 2 million then 3 million of additional funding gets thrown in and the warchest is at 5 million. One argument put forward is that the exclusion of PvE will free a substantial amount of funds. Still your have a valid point that 5 million is not a lot for an MMO of today.

 

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/21/13 3:07:36 PM#44
Originally posted by Tadder

Lineage shut down all their NA servers in 2011, and DAoC and UO are still around. Doesn't seem like that relates to the North American Market?

I think the story is always the same because it happens a lot.

 

Yeah but Lineage had a DIRECT SEQUAL, DaoC and UO has not. Nexus, an Asian game that was released BEFORE Lineage is still up and running today. Also, DaoC and UO have how many people playing in Asia? oh wait, I really should not use Asia as that includes Russia which is a totally different market...as well as PACIFIC which is western. We should be saying ORIENTAL...Japan, Korea, China...

An Asian server can be kept up because of AUSTRAILIAN players.

As for this logical fallcy being used, apply it to your side...how many Western games shut down in Asia? yep...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Smorak

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/07
Posts: 62

What man is a man that does not make the world better?

2/22/13 1:57:50 AM#45

I think what is being lost in the last several posts was the idea of the OP:  that removing PVE is not an innovation.

"Friends" lasted 10 years and is still in syndication on multiple channels to this day.  What happend to "Joey"?

The Jedi's lose in "The Empire Strikes Back."  There were massive seige battles in "The Two Towers."

You don't make good sequels by removing core items from the original i.e. WAR had only 2 factions but 6 realms.  WTF were they thinking?!

 

If the only progression is through RVR, then all skill levels and experience values will have to coexist on one team.  After 7 days, you will have first time players, day 2-3 players, and day 7 players.  Let's say this game is a /level 50 version of DAoC.  The experience factor of knowing your character is going to be huge.

   "Oh, everyone that plays will figure it out enventually," is what one reply will be.  Well, the lack of respec'ing, lack of practice, and lack of experience in a PVP only game will lead to some bad builds.  

  "That's ok.  It will create more replayability."  The only reason for alts in DAoC was to give the player something to do instead of play their "main" in RVR.  Why would that be necessary?  Because RVR can go dead.  Groups can become full and no one is making more.  After you spent an hour filling your pug, you got stomped twice and everyone left.

 

If the game is: log on, find a group, go fight another realm, gain some xp, build my skills, log off.  Then it's too late, that game is League of Legends.  

"Oh but its not 5v5.  Its 100v150v1000 or more.  And its not a sandbox.  You can go anywhere."  You're correct, the teams are unpredictable but the concept is not.  And only very rarely did a 3 realm fight happen at once on DAoC.  Sometimes you got backdoored during a seige, but typically, it was good strategy for realm A zerg to avoid realm B zerg while attacking realm C.  And "you can go anywhere?"  Really?!  The sandbox may be much larger than your typical MOBA.  But the RVR area is still contained with boundaries; it is still an arena.  Just because you don't see the walls from where you standing, doesn't mean you aren't in a room.

 

Do I like PVE?  Nope.  I hate it.  But did I look boot camp either?  Hell no.  But I know it was necessary in my progression in order to become a Marine.

If you eliminate PVE, you're putting rifles in the hands of children.  The last Americans that did that lost the Civil War.

  Smorak

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/07
Posts: 62

What man is a man that does not make the world better?

2/23/13 7:24:12 PM#46

Very suprised I got the last word on this topic.  I'm going to guess that most are too concerned about how they will become a career crafter in a game that revolves around PVP.  I personally love the idea about some farmville in the middle of the game.

The whole notion of removing PVE and making CRAFTING more intense is poppycock.

  User Deleted
2/23/13 7:40:21 PM#47
Originally posted by Aeonblades

Because people have been screaming for a DAOC clone for the past 4 years? 

And they won't get one here either. How is CU anything like DAoC other than it uses the word Camelot?

It sounds more like a scheme to gather interest based on the rose-colored memories of old DAoC fans.

  Smorak

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/07
Posts: 62

What man is a man that does not make the world better?

2/23/13 7:42:22 PM#48
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Originally posted by Aeonblades

Because people have been screaming for a DAOC clone for the past 4 years? 

And they won't get one here either. How is CU anything like DAoC other than it uses the word Camelot?

It sounds more like a scheme to gather interest based on the rose-colored memories of old DAoC fans.

^^^^^^^^

Ding Ding Ding!

We have a winner!

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