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Camelot Unchained Forum » General Discussion » Siege and Borderland Gates...long read.

4 posts found
  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 975

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

 
OP  2/09/13 1:50:19 PM#1

Siege and Borderland Gates...

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(to Mark: I have posted elsewhere my feelings about the past, it is time too move on and actually talking about ideas, so that is that, now on to what I hope to see)

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Sometime ago during the daoc days, there was talk about invasions into other realms. At one point a comment was made about that very issue...

"We thought about adding invasions into other realms, but that could lead to too much greifing and other issues"

Mind you that's not the exact quote, it was sometime ago when this was discussed. I think in the end thou it was a great thought, the idea that a large enough force could attempt the impossible of taking out elite guards and pushing into someone protected realm was pretty epic; I do remember that one time that a certain side actually did "break threw" , thou you put a stop to it, it was a fun time to remember even thou I was on the receiving end :P

But I think innovations like this, those ideas you thought about before Mark would really make your game shine beyond all others. Developers today talk about how they will have one aspect or another in their MMO's , all relating back to DAOC, heck we see how gw2 has done so. But in the end, you have these things to fight over but no real objectives.

Unique things such as "realm relics" where great and all, but originally the idea of being able to actually invade someones homeland really put that emphases of guarding your own borderlands and home area that much more important.

I personally believing adding this "Do or die" scenario would put you way above others. Games such as darkfall and the open world pvp is interesting, however they succumb to issues of gankfest and other griefing concepts. When you have sides working together that actually constantly feel the pressure (in the back of their mind) that our border could be over-run, that is some excitement just built in without the need of further development.

Things are exciting when the cost is very high, having this would be a huge cost for sure. You could change things in this concept this time around. I would think of things like "Ok, they can break threw borders but then what? " I was thinking about this back in the day of DAOC and the one thing I thought you guys where going to develop was a "raid" mechanic.

Raids today in MMO's mean totally different then what an actual definition of raid means. In your new vision if you went with this border concept again, you could allow a 10min raid session. "Ok, you broke threw, your reward is those cities and towns that lay ahead!"

So as the enemy pushes in, things like barrels, markets etc would have "clickies" for people to pick up (only seen by the enemy faction), the more they raid, the longer the re-spawn for those npc's to come back and their wares. Cost go up by some numbers and you could have animations such as fires, knocked over items etc till the city/town resets.

Take it a step further, allow those cities and towns to be player cities and towns ! Ahh the mind can go on an on about these ideas. I have a ton more ,if you want them just ask, but that's the concept I am thinking about , hopefully you are too.

I think to a point, Warhammer was an attempt at this idea, but daoc's layout was better. Simple double heavy gate well protected and if broken threw the above scenario could happen. People could still defend and hold them back, but once in the invaders are on a timer, (This stops population issues and total domination of a realm, but also gives time for that side to "get it's rewards") after which they would be forced out by a spawn (out of sight , maybe from pre-designed buildings like towers that couldn't be destroyed and npc's come bursting out) guards that would just wipe them out or push them out by making them flee or die.

Things that would happen (as I envision them)....

1. Realm Gate Broken and the invasion begins!

2. Set timer (till spawn of guards) for invaders to pillage (raid) cities and towns

3. invaders raid items from shops, caravans, buildings, misc (click-ables)

4. defenders can still defend during this time

5. destroyable buildings? Cost factors? this comes down to player building around these areas or are the just planted pre-defined npc's towns.

6. unique towers or guard buildings (barracks) not destruct-able, timer up, spawn super guards to kick out the invaders.

7. each guard is flagged "live in game" till every last active invader is gone from invasion", players LD or not in game but in invasion area auto kicked to home zone  (After invasion is over)

8. Invasion is over when time runs out, there are two timers, 1 for starting internal invasion, 2nd for guard spawn retaliation.

9. Guard retaliation once completed means 2nd timer over. At this point all remaining will be pushed back into the rvr area near invasions gates (far enough not to agro thou, maybe siege length) , message pop-up "you have been pushed back by realm guards!" or whatever. (I realize there could be exploits , hiding etc, so this would just "kick you out" sadly you loose immersion here but it's a necessary evil)

10. Once the invasion is done , players need to repair (or if npc' towns timers start and auto repairs begin)

11. Set after math issues, such as npc prices could be higher (lost of goods and buildings etc)

---------------

Now to deal with the actual rvr aspect, this could be for example the same seige in daoc but to add to it, for the raid mechanic of the homeland, don't stop people from actually just bypassing the keeps in rvr, let them go for the main seige of the homeland if they like. HOWEVER, if they by pass taking keeps , gate points etc, each non-take = more defense at the main home gate.

So basicly the idea here is, you seige the enemies foritifactions not only to push your homefront closer to the enemy and gain stronghold locations, but to weaken the enemies homeland defenses.  This then throws even more emphises on defense which I think would balance out the push vs defense issues that we ran into in the past.  Thou with a strong enough force they enemy still could invade your homeland , it would be difficult but you want that pressure to always be there.

The sure fire (you only can get here once u do a,b,c ) actually is not fun, we need the players to have options ;)

 

 

This is just a small break down but again willing to discuss further, would love to see it and to be honest as a coder, I could see it done in today's MMO's for sure. I could go on and on which for designing you need a book basicly but yeah, I loved daoc and where it could have gone.

 

ps. bring back trinity (sorry to others, i think this is still the best game mechanic out for grouping)

 

*edited for polish

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 975

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

 
OP  2/09/13 2:45:01 PM#2

Adding:

 

Also, one thing to definitly note is rvr works when everyone is pretty much on the same goal. Daoc had this but also didn't. I think when you add an area such as a home boarder land, people will HAVE to come togather no matter the guild they are related to or more. So you could have player housing, player keeps etc that would be more guild focused, but the main goal of the game should be something factional sided and a borderland such as the homelands of the old daoc is a great example.

 

Thnx for reading!

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1350

2/10/13 3:45:26 AM#3

Realm invasion was one of the original concepts of DAoC pre-release that was never developed.

With no pve and therefore open griefing not a problem it's not a bad idea. However, they tried this in Warhammer remember and it was a terrible mess of bugs and lag that led to them scrubing the fortress sieges altogether.

Focussing all players on one location is bad, really really bad unless the server can handle it.

Also keep repairs are horrible, this is one thing CU could exclude from the game. It's ALWAYS the same few who sit repairing while the rest run off to gank the enemy. It's not much fun.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 975

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

 
OP  2/12/13 12:48:37 AM#4
Originally posted by Zinzan

Realm invasion was one of the original concepts of DAoC pre-release that was never developed.

With no pve and therefore open griefing not a problem it's not a bad idea. However, they tried this in Warhammer remember and it was a terrible mess of bugs and lag that led to them scrubing the fortress sieges altogether.

Focussing all players on one location is bad, really really bad unless the server can handle it.

Also keep repairs are horrible, this is one thing CU could exclude from the game. It's ALWAYS the same few who sit repairing while the rest run off to gank the enemy. It's not much fun.

 

I remember and the issue there was tier not just open. It was "Do all of this and this is open for seige" and as far as lag goes, that games engine netcoding is horrid still is. Just saying... but going back to classic daoc concepts it's VERY doable, thinking my whole post along with warhammer would definitly turn one off from any of the posted ideas. I referanced to warhammer in only things "NOT" to do. Nothing about warhammer to me was good , not one thing and I had hopes, even bought the collectors box in the day. still have it on the shelf as i know I will never be able to sell it.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"