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Everquest Forum » Hogcaller Inn (General) » Everquest Next: sandbox mmo

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110 posts found
  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11727

 
OP  10/18/12 11:36:57 PM#41

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/18/soe-live-2012-keynote-announcements/

EverQuest Next has been redone from scratch so that it's not EverQuest III. Smedley promises it's going to be the "world's largest sandbox-style MMO ever made." It'll be playable at the next Fan Faire.

 

http://eq2wire.com/2012/10/18/soe-live-2012-welcome-reception-live-refresh-for-updates/

“I have to be honest with you. We have completely blown up the design of EverQuest Next. For the last year and a half we have been working on something we are not ready to show. Why did we blow up the design? The design was evolutionary. It was EverQuest III. It was something that was slightly better that what had come before it. IT was slightly better. What we are building is something that we will be very proud to call EverQuest. It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn’t want more Kill 10 Rats quests. We didn’t want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they’r delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.

What I will commit to is, at the next Fan Faire, not only will you get to see it but you will get to touch it. Most of the EQNext devs are in this room. If you get them drunk enough they might tell you. They’re led by Dave Georgeson. Terry Michaels. Vets from EQ and EQ2. We are remaking Norrath unlike anything you’ve ever seen, but you’ll recognize it. I’m sorry we don’t have anything to show for it, but I wanted to be honest with you and tell you a little bit about it. Keep the faith.”

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2660

110100100

10/19/12 4:01:51 AM#42

when is the next Fan Faire? lol

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4271

10/19/12 4:17:11 AM#43
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Nadia

giving this subject its own topic

 

Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by chukekle1

 Enjoy the wait, EQ Next has been talked about for years and years, i don't see it happening. Hell they just recently a few months ago shutdown 3 studios and fired more then 250 people. The EQ series is going down the tube and EQ Next is just a wishful thinking ideal for EQ fanboys.

The rumor mill states that the original concept of EQ Next has been discarded and a newer facebook style of game has taken its place.  Perhaps that's why there have been absolutely no updates from the developers over the last few months.

EQNext was first mentioned august 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest_Next

no art was seen for the game until Summer 2010 when soe gave some sketches

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/56438/SOE-Fan-Faire-2010-Roundup-EverQuest-Next-Announced

 

there has always been a "black out" regarding info about it - nothing new there

 

at the 2011 summers fanfaire,

SOE didnt talk about it beyond saying it would use the same game engine as PlanetSide 2

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111555-EverQuest-Next-and-Planetside-2-To-Use-New-Forge-Light-Engine

maybe we will hear more info at the October 2012 fanfaire but I doubt it

 

SOE was still hiring for EQ Next

http://eq2wire.com/2011/10/08/soe-hiring-for-eqnext-team/

in Feb 2012, Greg Spence, former lead programmer of EQ2, has been moved over EQ Next

http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/07/zoltaroth-steps-up-as-lead-programmer-of-everquest-ii-rothgar-heads-to-eqnext/

http://blog.gregsplace.com/2012/02/moving-on-to-next-great-thing.html

 

That still doesn't answer the question of whether they're sticking with the old concept for the game or changed it to the rumored facebook concept.

 

its going to be using the same engine as PS2 that will not run on the web.

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

10/19/12 4:18:04 AM#44

Great news.

It is a shame it is 2 years away though

I can't wait

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

10/19/12 4:21:44 AM#45
Originally posted by baphamet

when is the next Fan Faire? lol

Sadly next year

  pvpirl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/11
Posts: 171

10/20/12 5:37:58 PM#46

ill be there bros

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11727

 
OP  10/20/12 7:26:03 PM#47

Smed interview

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/20/soe-live-2012-john-smedley-on-eq-next-and-soes-future/

Massively: Let's start with EQ Next. When did you make the call to scrap everything? What was it that made you choose to do so?

John Smedley: A year and a half ago, we made that decision. I didn't get to cover this in the keynote, so I should mention it here. The engine and underlying technology has not changed. A lot of the guts and infrastructure are staying the same. What we're really changing is what the game is all about, all the design elements. We made one fundamental shift to emergent gameplay.

Once we made that shift, everything else had to follow. And what we saw was RIFT. We saw the writing on the wall with SWTOR. We saw The Secret World. We saw all these games that we knew were in development and very high-quality, but we saw what was going to happen -- this big spike and then it goes down. That's the truth of what's been happening with MMOs. The fans need to realize that if you don't change the nature of what these games are, you're not going to change that core behavior. We want to make games that last more than 15 years. That's why we made the decision to change it.

You mentioned last night that EQ Next will look like nothing we've ever seen. Will EQ Next still have the familiar feel to it that EQ fans are used to? How do you strike the balance between innovation and still staying true to the franchise?

I also said in there that it will still be very familiar to you, but what I meant by that statement is that we're changing what an MMO is. MMO means something now, and it means the same thing to everybody because it's the same game. EverQuest, WoW, SWTOR all use the same core loot gameplay, which is kill stuff, get reward, get loot, level up. Very few games have broken out of that mold. One or two have. EVE Online is a great example; it's not standard level-based gameplay, although I'm not saying we're going to a big skill-based system. You're still going to recognize the roleplaying game heritage in it. In EverQuest Next, the world itself is a part of the game. What is the world in these other games? It's a simple backdrop. It's nothing. We are changing that greatly. We're changing what AI is in these games to a degree that we're going to bring life to the world. That to us is the essence of the change that we're making.

At GDC last week, you also talked about how quickly traditional MMO content is consumed and how that plays into your decision to adopt a philosophy toward emergent gameplay. The question comes up about how that affects the future of raid content -- something that takes a lot of time to design and is usually played by only a portion of the community. What are your thoughts on that?

This is a very interesting question. I think it's at the core of why what we're doing is sustainable. I'll go right to the heart of the matter. You get to the point where we make an expansion, and when I say we, I mean the entire MMO community. You make your expansion, the real hardcore players consume it in a month, and they're doing the raids over and over and over until the next round of live content that we put in. Typically, three or four times a year, we as MMO companies put new endgame in there to keep the raiders happy.

We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make because players want that. We're not talking about the end of raids, the end of this incredibly high-level content. We're talking about changing the nature of the world around it so that there's a lot more to do "in between" expansions. A good example, but a very narrow example, is battlegrounds in WoW or EQII, where players get bored doing it over and over again. But imagine the entire world as part of the interaction. Imagine seasons changing. Imagine if you're a Druid and you need to literally seek out reagents for your spells or worship your deity in a glade somewhere off in the wilderness, but you don't know where. Or image forests growing back after they're burned to the ground by invading forces. What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2660

110100100

10/21/12 1:26:29 AM#48

^^ nice read, i really want to get exited about this game but, yeah.

this is the type of game i have been waiting for on paper but that's all it is right now.

  Neanderthal

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 1618

10/21/12 1:09:46 PM#49

I have to call bullshit on Smed.  To me that sounds like a lot of intentionally misleading hype.  At first it sounds like they are really going to make an effort to make a good sandbox game but then if you look a little closer you realize that---oh yeah---not so much sandbox after all.

The first clue was when he referred to is as "sandbox style".  By adding that little modifier there, the word "style", he was covering his arse so he can't be called a lier later.  Basically what this tells you is that it won't really be a sandbox game but rather it will be a typical sort of game with some elements which could concievably be labeled sandbox elements.

He also says, " I'm not saying we're going to a big skill-based system."  Which is just another way of saying it's still going to be a level based game.

Ok, then when talking about raiding he says, "We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make..."  So, yeah, more of the same.

Alright so what do we learn when we look closely at his comments?  We learn that he's planning to make a level based game with end-game raiding.  Well golly gee I never heard of something like that before!

Yes, he also talks about better AI and a dynamic world but, come on.  The game will be shaped by the fact that it's level based and raid based.  Those two basic facts will dictate what the game will be and they pretty much make a sandbox game impossible.  Ok, say a raid guild kills dragon X.  Dragon X stays dead.  Instead of dragon X respawning there will be something else like < Mountian Giant Y>  or whatever.  Maybe this is generated somewhat randomly.  Well ok, now they can say that their world is "dynamic".  But really it's just the same ol' thing in a different graphical package.

And if you think I'm clueless that's fine, but really, does anyone have any faith left in SOE or Smedley?

  pvpirl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/11
Posts: 171

10/21/12 9:56:29 PM#50

It isn't a theme park. It isn't a sand box. It is a county fair. Somewhere in between. Feel better?

  grafh

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

10/21/12 10:20:32 PM#51

Sadly im going to call this a lie until proven wrong. Calling a game the biggest sandbox ever is fail, and i know for a fact that they cannot keep that promise. Either a game is theme-park, or sandbox. I have yet to see a really good game that was both. 

WoW was themepark and it did well

EvE is sandbox and it did well

shadowbane was sandbox and it did well

rift is themepark, and it did well.

 

What game has been able to incorporate themepark and sandbox together and make a good game? The next biggest game i see that may be able to actually pull it off is archeage.

I would need much more details before i can even call it sandbox. Can towns be built? Can they be attacked and taken over? is there open world pvp? and when i say open world i mean open world, as in 90% of the world is open for pvp. Will there be rewards for killing people? Will there be consequences for my actions in pvp? are there quests ( i dont think they should even be in a sandbox mmo)? Is each character going to be unique in thier own way? i.e by making a warrior, will i be able to customermize my character as i see fit? If i want to make a dex war, can i make the stats as such? what about a super crazy int build warrior? can i do that? Part of sandbox is being able to play how you want to play. I dont want to lvl then bam i get like +2 to str,vit, +1 dex, and .5 for int and wisdom (random stats, dont even know if they are in game). I want to be able to put all my points into int if i want to.

Need more info before i can call this a sandbox let alone the Biggest sandbox ever.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2660

110100100

10/22/12 12:00:39 AM#52


Originally posted by grafh
Sadly im going to call this a lie until proven wrong. Calling a game the biggest sandbox ever is fail, and i know for a fact that they cannot keep that promise. Either a game is theme-park, or sandbox. I have yet to see a really good game that was both. 

WoW was themepark and it did well

EvE is sandbox and it did well

shadowbane was sandbox and it did well

rift is themepark, and it did well.

 

What game has been able to incorporate themepark and sandbox together and make a good game? The next biggest game i see that may be able to actually pull it off is archeage.

I would need much more details before i can even call it sandbox. Can towns be built? Can they be attacked and taken over? is there open world pvp? and when i say open world i mean open world, as in 90% of the world is open for pvp. Will there be rewards for killing people? Will there be consequences for my actions in pvp? are there quests ( i dont think they should even be in a sandbox mmo)? Is each character going to be unique in thier own way? i.e by making a warrior, will i be able to customermize my character as i see fit? If i want to make a dex war, can i make the stats as such? what about a super crazy int build warrior? can i do that? Part of sandbox is being able to play how you want to play. I dont want to lvl then bam i get like +2 to str,vit, +1 dex, and .5 for int and wisdom (random stats, dont even know if they are in game). I want to be able to put all my points into int if i want to.

Need more info before i can call this a sandbox let alone the Biggest sandbox ever.


IMO a sandbox game doesn't have to have pvp at all in order to be considered a sandbox.

also, you mention making a warrior, set classes isn't really a sandbox element.

point is, this is your view of what a sandbox should be and if this game doesn't meet that criteria, it doesn't mean it isn't a sandbox.

me personally, i really don't care if it has some theme park elements as long as its main focus is the sandbox elements.

to be honest, i would be happy with a game that was exactly like everquest was when it first came out with some added sandbox elements,some new bells and whistles, and open pvp servers, but that's just me.

  grafh

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

10/22/12 12:23:14 AM#53
Originally posted by baphamet

 




 

IMO a sandbox game doesn't have to have pvp at all in order to be considered a sandbox.

also, you mention making a warrior, set classes isn't really a sandbox element.

point is, this is your view of what a sandbox should be and if this game doesn't meet that criteria, it doesn't mean it isn't a sandbox.

me personally, i really don't care if it has some theme park elements as long as its main focus is the sandbox elements.

to be honest, i would be happy with a game that was exactly like everquest was when it first came out with some added sandbox elements,some new bells and whistles, and open pvp servers, but that's just me.

Then what is a sandbox to you? Sandbox to me is where users have the majority of the control over the game. How can a game be sandbox without pvp? What would you do?

you can review this thread for others people opinion of what sandbox is but they all seem to have pvp, and city building, with very minimal theme park elements. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4578396#4578396

Set classes are fine in a sandbox. i.e in shadowbane you could make a class called templar, but there were so many viable builds of templars that it was crazy. You had some that were str based, some that were int, some that were dex. Weapons were effected by certain stat modifiers. warlocks had a weapon called psi blades that did more dmg based on what your warlock skill was. But you didnt have to use them, you didnt even have to have a high warlock skill. You could be a melee warlock if you wanted. this flexability of the player is what makes up the elements of the sandbox.

Kill the wrong person in a sandbox game like shadowbane or eve and you have a political conflict on your hands, that can grow into a fullscale war. The devs didnt make that happen. you the players did. In sandbox devs job is to stay out of the game as much as possible and just take care of bugs, and introduce new content.

So in your mind, how would it have thempark elements, and what would make it sandbox? If you were making the game yourself, how would you do this?

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2660

110100100

10/22/12 12:16:54 PM#54


Originally posted by grafh

Originally posted by baphamet  


  IMO a sandbox game doesn't have to have pvp at all in order to be considered a sandbox. also, you mention making a warrior, set classes isn't really a sandbox element. point is, this is your view of what a sandbox should be and if this game doesn't meet that criteria, it doesn't mean it isn't a sandbox. me personally, i really don't care if it has some theme park elements as long as its main focus is the sandbox elements. to be honest, i would be happy with a game that was exactly like everquest was when it first came out with some added sandbox elements,some new bells and whistles, and open pvp servers, but that's just me.
Then what is a sandbox to you? Sandbox to me is where users have the majority of the control over the game. How can a game be sandbox without pvp? What would you do?

you can review this thread for others people opinion of what sandbox is but they all seem to have pvp, and city building, with very minimal theme park elements. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4578396#4578396

Set classes are fine in a sandbox. i.e in shadowbane you could make a class called templar, but there were so many viable builds of templars that it was crazy. You had some that were str based, some that were int, some that were dex. Weapons were effected by certain stat modifiers. warlocks had a weapon called psi blades that did more dmg based on what your warlock skill was. But you didnt have to use them, you didnt even have to have a high warlock skill. You could be a melee warlock if you wanted. this flexability of the player is what makes up the elements of the sandbox.

Kill the wrong person in a sandbox game like shadowbane or eve and you have a political conflict on your hands, that can grow into a fullscale war. The devs didnt make that happen. you the players did. In sandbox devs job is to stay out of the game as much as possible and just take care of bugs, and introduce new content.

So in your mind, how would it have thempark elements, and what would make it sandbox? If you were making the game yourself, how would you do this?


let me start by saying i do want open pvp. i just think a whole heck of a lot of people think open pvp = sandbox and it simply doesn't in my mind.

what would you do wihtout pvp? as close to anything you want as possible, that is what makes it a sandbox in my mind.

if you want to travel to a deserted island, build a house there and maybe start farming and crafting your own stuff to put in your house, you can do that.

or as you mentioned, you can build towns and cities if your guild/clan is powerful enough.

there doesn't need to be full open pvp, they can make it just like it was in EQ and guilds can declare war against other guilds.

i am not saying it shouldn't have open pvp or even that i do not want it, because i do.

just saying it doesn't have to have it, open pvp does not make it a sandbox, the mechanics in game that allow you do play your character the way you want with as much freedom as possible does, but again that's just my opinion.

that said, personally i definitely do not want a game where its just a big pvp war and i don't think they will make a game like that.


because if they did it wouldn't be everquest. this game is almost certainly going to be pve focused, i think it will be more of a hybrid sandbox/theme park rather than strictly a sandbox game.

remember, smed already confirmed there will be raiding in this game, so that tells you right there what the focus of this game will be.

like i said before, if i had it my way it would be a game that was unforgiving like EQ was when it first came out, with a huge seamless and un-instanced world.

there would then be the added sandbox elements that provide much more freedom for the player to play their character the way they want.

with the option to play on a server with open pvp or a "blue" server with only dueling or guild warfare allowed.

that way the people that want the pvp can do it and the people that just want to do the pve, socialize, and work with other players, or just do their own thing in their "sandbox" without being bothered by others can do that as well.

  VikingGamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1284

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

10/22/12 12:35:30 PM#55

I will tell you exactly what happened. Smedley is on a plane some where about 3 or 4 weeks ago reading a trade magazine on gaming so that he will sound like he know what he is talking about when he drops a few buzzwords during management meetings. He runs across and article on sandbox games. He doesn't really understand it but it makes him excited because he just learned a new word. As soon as he gets back to the office, he pulls the entire EQNext design team into a conference room and puts a single frame power point on the projector with the word "SANDBOX". He looks around the room at everyone and then after a dramatic pause says "It's the future." with a blissfully ignorant and overly confident sage nod.

Everybody in that room nods in agreement but thinks to themselves "F*&#, he has been reading magazines on airplanes again."

This very scenario happens all the time at all kinds of companies. simply change the actors and the buzzword. Virtualization, Cloud computing, Data Warehouse, I have seen it happen, and I am not the only one.

All die, so die well.
Join SOLA in ArcheAge.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1804

10/22/12 12:45:15 PM#56
Flat out the best news for mmos in years. I hope they can pull off what they are planning. Sounds like a great game and a real mmorpg.

You stay sassy!

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1165

10/22/12 12:52:01 PM#57

There's some black humour here, watching the sandbox vultures gathering to pick the corpse clean before it is even born.

 

Or maybe Sony will successfully make its corpse run?

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2824

We all breathe and we all die.

10/22/12 12:56:06 PM#58

It's free right?

B2P or F2P either way I hope to enjoy this Sandbox alongside GW2 and PS2, I just hope the Combat isn't like EQ1-2, I hope I get to have some sort of control in combat.

Like AOC, DSO, GW2, and Tera.

 

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Neanderthal

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 1618

10/22/12 12:58:16 PM#59
Originally posted by baphamet

 

 

let me start by saying i do want open pvp. i just think a whole heck of a lot of people think open pvp = sandbox and it simply doesn't in my mind.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

remember, smed already confirmed there will be raiding in this game, so that tells you right there what the focus of this game will be.

 

I agree with you about PvP.  I don't see why "sandbox" has to mean unrestricted open PvP.  Ideally I would like to see open PvP but only if someone could come up with some consequences which would actually prevent a game from becoming a mindless gankfest.  I've often thought a robust enough faction system (including player created factions) might do the trick but who knows.  Oh, and I mean faction hits for killing other players.

 

The focus on raiding is the thing that really kills this whole thing for me.  Ok, cards on the table here, I've hated raiding since I played the first EQ game so I am extremely biased against it.  However, I just can't see how any game could even pretend to be a sandbox if it is focused on raiding for loot.  That whole paradigm would make any attempt at a sandbox game into a sad joke.  I mean if you're going to rely on raid progression to keep people hooked it requires certain things for that to work with directly contradicts the whole idea of a sandbox.

1.  it kills crafting because the best loot has to come from raids or people wouldn't do raids. 

2.  With the constant need to raid, raid, raid for loot upgrades to "keep up with the Jones's" nobody is going to care about piddling around with any sandboxy elements. 

3.  Endless gear progression would compelely f-ck up balance between characters who have progressed a lot and those who haven't.  So if you did have PvP it would be seriously messed up.

4.  It eliminates the possibility of having destuctable items because people wouldn't stand for it if their phat raid lewtz could be destroyed.  And there goes any chance at a sandboxy economy.

5.  As with point 4 it eliminates the possibility of item loot in PvP.  Maybe there could be item loot on a special PvP server like Rallos zek but think about how few people played there compared to all the people who played on all the other servers.

Basically, if the game has raid progression for ever-increasingly-powerfull items then everything comes to revolve around raiding.  Quite simply because that's where the progression is.  And if the game is all about endless gear progression then it's really not about player driven, emergent gameplay, sandbox "style" stuff.  In fact, it's just the same exact crap they've been shoveling at us for years.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1804

10/22/12 1:18:58 PM#60
Originally posted by Arglebargle

There's some black humour here, watching the sandbox vultures gathering to pick the corpse clean before it is even born.

 

Or maybe Sony will successfully make its corpse run?

I've laughed sever times over these EQNext threads.

 

What is indeed funny is the fact the original EQ was a harsh and unforgiving game yet it was the dominant non-asian mmo of the day by far. Let first make it clear that I was an AC player during that time but I still respected EQ for what it was. EQNext is trying to go back to what EQ was originaly like along with concepts and ideas the original EQ team likely would have loved to impliment.

 

What EQNext will be is a much harder place to progress through and survive without real time investment, real social interaction and real fantasy immersion. This scares new age mmo players. It scares people knowing they must organize and plan along side other players within the world. It scares them that it is like real life and their lack of real online social skills will be tested and forced to develop. It scares them when they realise that 5+ years of mmo gameplay has in fact had nothing to actually do with real rpg gameplay that others have mastered over a life time of playing. They are now the outsiders and the themeparks which have been providing all the conveniences for them is now being stripped away and the player must now work for those conveniences.

 

So many here forget that great gameplay does not required to be wrapping in small zones or personal instances. That improving social interaction requires removal of barriers and not more barriers. They forget that group finders remove the need to actually meet someone and are in fact counter intuitive and that pvp and instanced dungeons remove players from the world, not add to the world.

 

People are just scared. They say it won't work to ease their insecurity and ignore the fact that it has already worked and worked well. All SOE is doing is making a roleplaying game for actual roleplayers (and I don't mean rp chatters ... those aren't roleplayers, they are socialites). They decided to stop making an mmo for video gamers with no rpg background and stop taking away rpg mechanics because non-rpg players couldn't handle them. But I know, making an rpg for actual rpg fans is crazy! Who the fuck would go out and make a game for it's target audience? CRAZY TALK!

You stay sassy!

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