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Star Citizen Forum » General Discussion » money grab machine

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86 posts found
  exile01

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/13
Posts: 147

12/12/13 4:44:12 AM#61
 

 

I find it pretty interesting. They actually reached their goals long time ago but they keep coming with new ones. With every new starship they get like 4mil dollars I mean they have all the assets to make a new starship in less then 4 days. How does this work equal 4mil?

Despite that, you see after 33mil only a universe with build in physics and some spaceships. Even that fps battlesystem is not done yet.

Did you guys read what their next goal is? "TO SMOOTH THE FPS EXPERIENCE" 

with a half brain you could ask yourself, why didnt they put that already in or into consideration when they added that feature`?

Im not against the support the people give- but milking people for tiny shit they could add within a week- and ask for that millions- is something that really bothers me.

Some people lost track to real life.

 

 

If they keep going on with this mentality- they will reach 80mil dollars with 50% of the game done.

  Hairysun

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1068

Boo ....

12/12/13 5:14:21 AM#62
Originally posted by exile01
 

 

I find it pretty interesting. They actually reached their goals long time ago but they keep coming with new ones. With every new starship they get like 4mil dollars I mean they have all the assets to make a new starship in less then 4 days. How does this work equal 4mil?

Despite that, you see after 33mil only a universe with build in physics and some spaceships. Even that fps battlesystem is not done yet.

Did you guys read what their next goal is? "TO SMOOTH THE FPS EXPERIENCE" 

with a half brain you could ask yourself, why didnt they put that already in or into consideration when they added that feature`?

Im not against the support the people give- but milking people for tiny shit they could add within a week- and ask for that millions- is something that really bothers me.

Some people lost track to real life.

 

 

If they keep going on with this mentality- they will reach 80mil dollars with 50% of the game done.

 

I believe this has gone quite a bit farther than even they were expecting.  Almost to the point of "Dammit, we've got to come up with another stretch goal."  The precedent of stretch goals was established right from the start over a year ago for the kick starter.  I can imagine the out cry if they suddenly said no more stretch goals.

 

~Hairysun

 

http://www.straightdope.com/

  User Deleted
12/12/13 7:11:42 AM#63


Originally posted by Hairysun

Originally posted by exile01

 
  I find it pretty interesting. They actually reached their goals long time ago but they keep coming with new ones. With every new starship they get like 4mil dollars I mean they have all the assets to make a new starship in less then 4 days. How does this work equal 4mil? Despite that, you see after 33mil only a universe with build in physics and some spaceships. Even that fps battlesystem is not done yet. Did you guys read what their next goal is? "TO SMOOTH THE FPS EXPERIENCE"  with a half brain you could ask yourself, why didnt they put that already in or into consideration when they added that feature`? Im not against the support the people give- but milking people for tiny shit they could add within a week- and ask for that millions- is something that really bothers me. Some people lost track to real life.     If they keep going on with this mentality- they will reach 80mil dollars with 50% of the game done.
 

I believe this has gone quite a bit farther than even they were expecting.  Almost to the point of "Dammit, we've got to come up with another stretch goal."  The precedent of stretch goals was established right from the start over a year ago for the kick starter.  I can imagine the out cry if they suddenly said no more stretch goals.

 

~Hairysun

 


The "streach goal" is only something psychological. They won't add any new features to the game. It just there to ceep the community happy, so they can write about it or speculate on it in the official form. This keeps the masses calm and doesn't hurt any one.

NO one will buy a new ship or a mousepad to get us to the next streach goal. They buy the new ships because they like the look, stats or any other reason they think it is worht to spend money on the project.

And yes I belive they never expected to be so successful with the whole crowed funding, but why not take the money when ppl are throwing it at you?

  LeGrosGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 214

12/14/13 12:21:09 PM#64
If it weren't for my 8 years on EVE-Online I'd most likely give it a shot.  I'll be waitting for Novus Aeterno instead which I already backed on KickStarter :)              And the whole funding thing is just fishy, they come up with something new to fund every week or so, lol.      I'd be careful , might become P2W  :)            Once you go on the greed path, there is no coming back. 
  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

12/14/13 1:16:43 PM#65
Elite: Dangerous has released its Alpha already and it's Kickstarter was around the same time.
  strangepowers

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 599

SCAD Animation-Film-F/X

12/14/13 1:20:44 PM#66


Originally posted by apanz3r
It looks like their main concern is to grab more money altough they allredy reached any goal they proposed.

The "limited available" ships return again for a week etc.

 Bottomline : consume with  moderation, don;t fall in their marketing trap.


What is the purpose of any for profit company? That's right make profit...

Look dude, life is not that complicated, there is nothing wrong with it and if you don't like it feel free to avoid it.

Nobody needs your subjective "warnings."

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6732

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

12/14/13 1:33:12 PM#67
Originally posted by Clerigo
Originally posted by apanz3r

It looks like their main concern is to grab more money altough they allredy reached any goal they proposed.

The "limited available" ships return again for a week etc.

 Bottomline : consume with  moderation, don;t fall in their marketing trap.

 

This is one of those threads that sould be locked imediately.

You give no valuable information whatsoever, you make an accusation without any kind of sense, you clearly show no knowledge of the project itself since its a crowd funded project and RSI made it clear from the start what people were having or not for each goal reached and with the increasing revenue more goals were added, and you come here saying something like that about a high quality project geting 21 millions fan based when there are AAA tittes out there spending 10 or 20 times more that dont fit in your perspective of things.

 

Well you have already considered the OP's opinion as baseless,yet you are already assuming this game will be top notch and money well spent?

The problem the OP is talking about ,not only stems from misleading NAIVE people into giving them free hand outs,you actually are not funding anything because you really do NOT have a say.

When people or businesses back a project,they DO have a say and perhaps the final say or a very big one,it is only the free handouts that are ripping people off.

There is always going to be the argument that it is YOUR money and you can do as you please but it does ruin the entire genre and make up of game design if the MAJORITY hand over free money.

If devs thought this was super easy cake,they would ALL do it and that would leave the smarter consumers that use at least some better judgement BEFORE handing over money,out in the cold and left out.

IOs that what we really want for this entire industry,all developers asking for free handouts and those that give them more money get more perks?it sets a REAL BAD standard for morals and gaming which is SUPPOSE to be about FUN ,NOT money.

That is why we are the consumers looking for FUN and they are the business looking for money,we should not be funding THEIR business with absolutely no guarantees what so ever.

It really baffles me as to why all of a sudden consumers want to hand over money for FREE,do you feel like it is YOUR game or something now,because it most certainly is not.

IU bet the same people who hand over money to rich businessmen like this would scoff at helping the homeless or abused or any needy family or person,as i said it shows poor morals.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Redemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1058

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

12/14/13 1:45:32 PM#68

 Thanks to everyone who shares in my cynical impression of the Crowd Funding trend, I really thought I was the last of a dieing breed who only spent money on actual products or those which had safeguards for my money. I've said it before, as a game I hope SC does well, but I can't help but hope the entire crowd funding system comes crashing down. To those clamoring that the reason for the success of this system is stagnation in the "genres" I disagree, it's success is due to the guillibility and lack of fiscal responsibility of current gamers. If I invest in a project, then I am a share holder .... otherwise it's a twisted charity. It's such a mind boggling system, imagine it : Why should we take any risk when developing a product, let's make potential consumers bear the risk, it's brilliant! Shame ... shame on the state of consumerism.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

12/14/13 4:18:34 PM#69
Originally posted by Redemp

 Thanks to everyone who shares in my cynical impression of the Crowd Funding trend, I really thought I was the last of a dieing breed who only spent money on actual products or those which had safeguards for my money. I've said it before, as a game I hope SC does well, but I can't help but hope the entire crowd funding system comes crashing down. To those clamoring that the reason for the success of this system is stagnation in the "genres" I disagree, it's success is due to the guillibility and lack of fiscal responsibility of current gamers. If I invest in a project, then I am a share holder .... otherwise it's a twisted charity. It's such a mind boggling system, imagine it : Why should we take any risk when developing a product, let's make potential consumers bear the risk, it's brilliant! Shame ... shame on the state of consumerism.

If it crashes that's part of the process. These are games and customers no one else wanted. Anyone who wants the money can try other ways. Im sure people would rather purchase a working game, but that wouldn't be profitable enough.

I guess the whales can be kings with kick starter instead of hardcore shoppers they are now. The state of mmorpgs and PC gaming is a direct result of hardcore gamers turning to KS instead of companies that don't want their business.

 

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Quazal.A

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 420

12/14/13 4:39:12 PM#70

*sarcrasm alert*

 

what all us cynics are forgetting is that the Lead dev invented space and space travel and spaceships and everything 

or that what his fanboys would have us believe

 

by the way im starting a new crowd sourcing, im after 1.5bill to make this uber game, and my skills include copying a program out of the spectrum magazine in 1982 and it EVEN WORKED (nb you have to have tried this to understand the saracasm at end)

please send any donation to iamamughereismyfreemoney@honestjohnsmoneyshop.com

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  VincerKaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 460

12/14/13 4:48:50 PM#71
Whew! Close call, OP. Thanks for the warning. Any advice on time shares?

  Volkmar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2508

12/16/13 1:11:00 AM#72
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by Clerigo
Originally posted by apanz3r

It looks like their main concern is to grab more money altough they allredy reached any goal they proposed.

The "limited available" ships return again for a week etc.

 Bottomline : consume with  moderation, don;t fall in their marketing trap.

 

This is one of those threads that sould be locked imediately.

You give no valuable information whatsoever, you make an accusation without any kind of sense, you clearly show no knowledge of the project itself since its a crowd funded project and RSI made it clear from the start what people were having or not for each goal reached and with the increasing revenue more goals were added, and you come here saying something like that about a high quality project geting 21 millions fan based when there are AAA tittes out there spending 10 or 20 times more that dont fit in your perspective of things.

 

Well you have already considered the OP's opinion as baseless,yet you are already assuming this game will be top notch and money well spent?

The problem the OP is talking about ,not only stems from misleading NAIVE people into giving them free hand outs,you actually are not funding anything because you really do NOT have a say.

When people or businesses back a project,they DO have a say and perhaps the final say or a very big one,it is only the free handouts that are ripping people off.

There is always going to be the argument that it is YOUR money and you can do as you please but it does ruin the entire genre and make up of game design if the MAJORITY hand over free money.

If devs thought this was super easy cake,they would ALL do it and that would leave the smarter consumers that use at least some better judgement BEFORE handing over money,out in the cold and left out.

IOs that what we really want for this entire industry,all developers asking for free handouts and those that give them more money get more perks?it sets a REAL BAD standard for morals and gaming which is SUPPOSE to be about FUN ,NOT money.

That is why we are the consumers looking for FUN and they are the business looking for money,we should not be funding THEIR business with absolutely no guarantees what so ever.

It really baffles me as to why all of a sudden consumers want to hand over money for FREE,do you feel like it is YOUR game or something now,because it most certainly is not.

IU bet the same people who hand over money to rich businessmen like this would scoff at helping the homeless or abused or any needy family or person,as i said it shows poor morals.

It baffles you?

AND you read MMORPG.com?

How come?

Haven't you see the hundreds of thread all complaining about X or Y? How the MMO genre is dead and no game really is good for them?

I'm sure you have! Then you should see how this crowdfunding is NOT baffling, because it is built on making a game that the people choose instead of Business Suit #6.

Simply put, people choose with their wallets and they always have. Now you can choose which game gets made instead of which game, already made, chosen for you by others, to buy.  Is that really so baffling?

Finally, a part of it is surely the development process and the possibility of influencing it. Yes, not all are interested into that and it is debatable how much one person can do, but it is also true that regular posters get noticed, especially in the early phases, so it is not completely impossible either.

Yes, there will be disappointment and yes, some projects will fail and give you nothing, but isn't that much better than have NO saying in what gets made at all? Isn't that better than having focus groups, of which you are never part of, chosen by people in suits that know 0 of gaming, deciding what game is made?

Clearly many thinks that is better than buying a finished product...

And think about it, it is not such a sure thing when you buy a finished product either, isn't it? How many times have you heard of people whining of a bad game they bought because Reviewer X told it was good? You can say that at least those people have something tangible in their hands they can play, but is that really what they wanted in the first place?

 

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

- My New World of Darkness Tabletop RPG Blog:
http://realmofroleplay.com/?cat=19

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6971

12/16/13 2:02:46 AM#73


Originally posted by Volkmar

Yes, there will be disappointment and yes, some projects will fail and give you nothing, but isn't that much better than have NO saying in what gets made at all?

No, it is no better, in fact it is worse.

Normally, you pay for product you find worth the money, product you enjoy. This sole fact pushes the developers to produce something you will like, since that is only way they can get money from you.

With KS though, this formula gets broken. You no longer pay for product because there is no product yet thus there is no worry whether you will like the product or not, not to say there might be as well no product at all, they get paid regardless.


Crowdfunding encourages very bad business habbits. You throw money at people, money those people are not liable for.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

12/16/13 2:51:22 AM#74


There is no money in space sims anyway. Just ask the experts. They have a great track record.

The normal game development process is already broken.  more and more people believe KS has a better chance of producing a game they may enjoy than current PC game developers. which is probably accurate.

 

 

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Volkmar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2508

12/16/13 5:51:21 AM#75
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Volkmar

Yes, there will be disappointment and yes, some projects will fail and give you nothing, but isn't that much better than have NO saying in what gets made at all?


 

No, it is no better, in fact it is worse.

Normally, you pay for product you find worth the money, product you enjoy. This sole fact pushes the developers to produce something you will like, since that is only way they can get money from you.

With KS though, this formula gets broken. You no longer pay for product because there is no product yet thus there is no worry whether you will like the product or not, not to say there might be as well no product at all, they get paid regardless.


Crowdfunding encourages very bad business habbits. You throw money at people, money those people are not liable for.

Of course they are liable for it.

If they f*** it up, do you think their next project will have the same level of commitment? Of course not!

Same thing happens to a developer team whose publisher financed game fails to deliver, they already got paid and now they get fired or the studio is shut down.

The only thing that change is who gives them the money and who tells them what game to make. Instead of having to convince a Publisher to finance them, they have to convince the public.

Now it seems clear to me that there can be great deal of difference between convincing one (you need to show your project is financially viable) and the others (you need to show you will make a great game).

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

- My New World of Darkness Tabletop RPG Blog:
http://realmofroleplay.com/?cat=19

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6971

12/16/13 6:41:03 AM#76


Originally posted by Volkmar
Of course they are liable for it.

If they f*** it up, do you think their next project will have the same level of commitment? Of course not!

Same thing happens to a developer team whose publisher financed game fails to deliver, they already got paid and now they get fired or the studio is shut down.

The only thing that change is who gives them the money and who tells them what game to make. Instead of having to convince a Publisher to finance them, they have to convince the public.

Now it seems clear to me that there can be great deal of difference between convincing one (you need to show your project is financially viable) and the others (you need to show you will make a great game).


There is a big difference.

If your 40M business shuts down, you owe your investor 40M.
If your 40M donation KS shuts down, you can keep your new sports car and west coast summer house(bought for money donated of course).


Getting an investment means you are liable for money someone has invested into your company, it is a legal business contract of 2 parties.


Would you pay upfront for a new house without any possibility to raise a legal complaint in case the house does not meet promised qualities or is not built at all?

I guess you wouldn't.


There is indeed a difference between talking to potential investor or potential donee. It is where KS bad business promotion starts - the funding being based on non-business related qualifiers.

  pmaura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 513

12/16/13 1:11:49 PM#77
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Volkmar
Of course they are liable for it.

 

If they f*** it up, do you think their next project will have the same level of commitment? Of course not!

Same thing happens to a developer team whose publisher financed game fails to deliver, they already got paid and now they get fired or the studio is shut down.

The only thing that change is who gives them the money and who tells them what game to make. Instead of having to convince a Publisher to finance them, they have to convince the public.

Now it seems clear to me that there can be great deal of difference between convincing one (you need to show your project is financially viable) and the others (you need to show you will make a great game).


 

There is a big difference.

If your 40M business shuts down, you owe your investor 40M.
If your 40M donation KS shuts down, you can keep your new sports car and west coast summer house(bought for money donated of course).


Getting an investment means you are liable for money someone has invested into your company, it is a legal business contract of 2 parties.


Would you pay upfront for a new house without any possibility to raise a legal complaint in case the house does not meet promised qualities or is not built at all?

I guess you wouldn't.


There is indeed a difference between talking to potential investor or potential donee. It is where KS bad business promotion starts - the funding being based on non-business related qualifiers.

man you dont know much about business these days. Look into the amount donald trump has declared bankruptcy on compared to what he has. He as screwed investors out of billions, you never need to pay back investments thanks to bankruptcy and lawyers only if your complete idiot do you pay it back.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6971

12/16/13 1:51:21 PM#78


Originally posted by pmaura

man you dont know much about business these days. Look into the amount donald trump has declared bankruptcy on compared to what he has. He as screwed investors out of billions, you never need to pay back investments thanks to bankruptcy and lawyers only if your complete idiot do you pay it back.

He still owns the brand, all his hotels and casinos, doesn't he?

Bankruptcy does not neccesarily mean liquidity - selling out all assets and closing down.

Bankruptcy also serves as legal process how to revitalize your business - under the oversight and court jurisdiction.


In either way, you need lots of credibility to pull it off and with the Trump's persona, I can imagine the investors actually made quite a bucket of money.

  pmaura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 513

12/16/13 11:26:31 PM#79
No he doesnt own them. And the investors ge5 screwed and you can not take his personal assets ever because he is in florida which has awesome bankruptcy laws
  Volkmar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2508

12/17/13 5:08:13 AM#80
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Volkmar
Of course they are liable for it.

 

If they f*** it up, do you think their next project will have the same level of commitment? Of course not!

Same thing happens to a developer team whose publisher financed game fails to deliver, they already got paid and now they get fired or the studio is shut down.

The only thing that change is who gives them the money and who tells them what game to make. Instead of having to convince a Publisher to finance them, they have to convince the public.

Now it seems clear to me that there can be great deal of difference between convincing one (you need to show your project is financially viable) and the others (you need to show you will make a great game).


 

There is a big difference.

If your 40M business shuts down, you owe your investor 40M.
If your 40M donation KS shuts down, you can keep your new sports car and west coast summer house(bought for money donated of course).


Getting an investment means you are liable for money someone has invested into your company, it is a legal business contract of 2 parties.


Would you pay upfront for a new house without any possibility to raise a legal complaint in case the house does not meet promised qualities or is not built at all?

I guess you wouldn't.


There is indeed a difference between talking to potential investor or potential donee. It is where KS bad business promotion starts - the funding being based on non-business related qualifiers.

First off, I was talking of developers working for a Publisher, not seeking investors.

Second off, Kickstarter rules speak of "Best faith effort" that does NOT include buying summer houses or sports car, so if some developer would do that with the donated money, they would be in breach of contract anyway.

You can argue that the KS crowd would not sue them and they could get away with it, but Kickstarter, the company, would prolly not be so kind on them as they damaged their reputation.

The only difference is with Star Citizen in particular as they seek private donors, basically. The fact it works should tell volumes on the level of trust that the crew over there has managed to inspire in the people.

But if you look around, you will notice very few other projects manage to achieve the same level of trust with individual donors and if SC happens to be made of vapor, you can bet your horses that level will plummet to the floor.

 

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

- My New World of Darkness Tabletop RPG Blog:
http://realmofroleplay.com/?cat=19

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