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Star Citizen Forum » General Discussion » Star Citizen or Elite: Dangerous?

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135 posts found
  Pecisk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/13
Posts: 14

10/26/13 4:47:27 PM#21
Originally posted by Lahuzer
Originally posted by Pecisk
Originally posted by Lahuzer
It's a tough call. I prolly kick in some bucks in both games then. But I guess S.C will be the better looking game. At least when I compare the footage that is out there. Then we also have EVE Valkarie. Seems to be good times ahead for space games. : P

I think "better looking" is purerly subjective here. ED primary goal is to have high quality graphics to support game play, not other way around (just high fidelty graphics for it's own sake). However in my opinion is that enviroment in ED will simply look more "alive", as procedural generation allow you do more dynamic content, like forming and moving clouds on planets, rotating them and moving them in their orbits. You aren't restricted to handcrafted scenarios, all dynamic and handcrafted stuff (which ED will still have a lot, sometimes they just will be bits and pieces which will be combined together with generated content) can come together to create beautiful vistas without special special attention from artist.

There's lot of sceptics out there including lot of in SC community about PG. It's understandable, because there's not much game developers out there who know how to utilise it properly.  However it's prominence has raised trough popularity of Minecraft and other PG games. Also EverQuest Next, followup of MMORPG series will use PG to create game world.  So it remains to be seen. ED sure will be game to check out at least for huge scale and PG generated vistas, which sometimes can be really beautiful :) I know I will play ED because of unique and very detailed gameplay for any activity I choose to engange with.

Sounds nice. What engine are they using for ED? I know it is Cry Engine 3 for SC. Also, PG? Player generated?

PG stands for Procedural Generation, check out this video (author of ED David Braben speaks about it in 10 min presentation at TEDx Albertpolis) I linked in my previous post, that gives you general idea. Frontier Developments uses their own in-house engine Cobra, which has been used for all their games and is constantly upgraded and improved to support all new capabilities of latest video cards. For idea what Cobra engine is capable of check out this Zoo Tycoon demo, which is XBox One exclusive and is developed by Frontier Developments. You can read nice summary of how they do this game in this ED Wikia FAQ section here.

Edit: PG is also used by Space Engine http://en.spaceengine.org/

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/26/13 4:48:51 PM#22

Elite uses a Custom engine

Pg is procedural generation, where the world increased from a seed and used various functions and randomness to make the world, rather than having everything be hand designed. It allows for bigger worlds as you don't need anything like the number of artists, its also used to increase replayabilty due to random layout.

Games that use it include.
Original elite and frontier
Privateer
Many 4x games where you make a random map eg. Civ, homm, endless space
Minecraft
Terraria
All roguelikes and roguelikelikes e.g. spelunky, eldritch, rogue legacy, wasteland kings

lots of games in development like elite dangerous, starbound, starforge, sir you are being hunted, the stalker MMO

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/26/13 4:56:24 PM#23
Originally posted by Purutzil

Personally, I feel Eve is quite lack luster as far as a space game goes. If anything i consider it more of a 'economy' game focusing on that 'make cash get rich' deal with little as far as a real immersive space experience goes. The ship is just a tiny part of the world, its the characters... the 'inside the ship' portions. I'd say if anything i really look for a game in a way that is somewhat like mass effect, having emphasis on characters just with added elements of controlling the ship directly with more of a 'skill based' system upon the ship. Sure, piloting is a big part, but also what your character does outside the ship that really shines.

 

For me, I just hope that whether its Star Citizen or Elite, they work to capture this element and really merge us into a world that goes beyond just the ship, focusing on the world itself. Eve's world is so lack luster and flat having pretty much blackness being its backdrop. Exploring inside the ships and really placing us inside the world I feel can make a very powerful Space MMO. It helps to create such a large scope when your wandering inside a giant spacship that you respect just what you might be controlling once your outside piloting it.

you'll be wanting Star Citizen then

Elite Dangerous will be more like EVE where you fly the ship yourself, with a bit less emphasis on economy and more emphasis on combat.

  PumaClipper

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/19/13
Posts: 46

10/26/13 5:51:34 PM#24
Originally posted by goldtoof
Originally posted by Purutzil

Personally, I feel Eve is quite lack luster as far as a space game goes. If anything i consider it more of a 'economy' game focusing on that 'make cash get rich' deal with little as far as a real immersive space experience goes. The ship is just a tiny part of the world, its the characters... the 'inside the ship' portions. I'd say if anything i really look for a game in a way that is somewhat like mass effect, having emphasis on characters just with added elements of controlling the ship directly with more of a 'skill based' system upon the ship. Sure, piloting is a big part, but also what your character does outside the ship that really shines.

 

For me, I just hope that whether its Star Citizen or Elite, they work to capture this element and really merge us into a world that goes beyond just the ship, focusing on the world itself. Eve's world is so lack luster and flat having pretty much blackness being its backdrop. Exploring inside the ships and really placing us inside the world I feel can make a very powerful Space MMO. It helps to create such a large scope when your wandering inside a giant spacship that you respect just what you might be controlling once your outside piloting it.

you'll be wanting Star Citizen then

Elite Dangerous will be more like EVE where you fly the ship yourself, with a bit less emphasis on economy and more emphasis on combat.

Nope,

Eve is point & click flight from 3rd person perspective with roll & dice combat.

Elite: Dangerous is from 1st person perspective with direct controls and your own skills.

There is lots of emphasis on Economy in Elite.

  Lahuzer

Elite Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 629

Sit on my face and tell me that you love me...

 
OP  10/26/13 5:58:44 PM#25
I decided to put in 100£ for E.D. I think E.D needs the cash even more. S.C is already a huge succees. But the more I find out bout E.D, the more I think it's the game for me. Will prolly put in some to S.C as well, but for now I went with E.D.
  MarcusAurelius

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/13
Posts: 2

11/01/13 1:57:56 PM#26

These are the main differences i see between Eve Online, Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen.

Eve Online is very much a point and click experience, it has no twitch combat type dynamics. so its really all about how many levels you have accrued and ship class and size also having a bearing.

Elite Dangerous has a procedural universe, Eve and SC won't.

Elite Dangerous has planet landings and free form exploration in a near infinite galaxy. Star Citizen will implement a type of Freelancer pre rendered planet landing, Eve has none of this, its basically a sector by sector crawl in space, much like X universe.

Eve is heavily into trading and automating empire building with minimal focus on pilot combat skill. It turns a blind eye to griefing, ganking and other antisocial behaviour in PvP environments. Chris Roberts said he will discourage this by having instanced PvP, in doing so it will minimize unfair teamups.

Both Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen will have the ability for players to look around their ships and check things like cargo holds, and the potential of interacting with NPC ship crew.

All in all I have a deeper appreciation for these veterans coming back to the scene and offering something unique. Their games have the potential to revitalize the space sim market. I am hoping projects such as these will allow for other ambitious games to come onto kickstarter.

  Imsneaky

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 138

11/12/13 6:20:38 AM#27
Originally posted by PumaClipper

In Star Citizen you won't do much actual flying in between the planets, since most of the time is spent in autopilot and cut-scenes, it will have cut-scene landings and no Freeform Atmospheric or Freeform interplanetary flight, also Planets and Star Systems won't have Real Distances and Size they will only have an average of 2 planets each and won't have Gravity, Orbits and Rotatations like in Elite: Dangerous.

 

Come again?!?  It appears that you know more about Elite Dangerous than you do Star Citizen.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQ0qMRZ_1Q

  Imsneaky

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 138

11/12/13 6:22:58 AM#28
This is an earlier flight of the 300i in full atmospheric flight but the model is raw with no animations such as the engine, etc...  Terrain is seamless.

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1478

11/12/13 6:25:18 AM#29
Originally posted by Lahuzer
Originally posted by goldtoof
Well there's a strong possibility valkarie will be a console exclusive.

They can't be that stupid again...

When CCP only recruits Goons as devs ANYTHING is possible in the world of EVE.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Pecisk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/13
Posts: 14

11/12/13 6:27:18 AM#30
Originally posted by Imsneaky
This is an earlier flight of the 300i in full atmospheric flight but the model is raw with no animations such as the engine, etc...  Terrain is seamless.

It's a player hack, and you can't do it for full planet. No actual functionality coming to the game in nearest future.

  DocBrody

Elite Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1181

11/12/13 6:28:42 AM#31
Originally posted by PumaClipper
Originally posted by Ingvar
SC nor Elite are MMOs

Both SC and Elite are MMO.

BS.

 

SC is server based with a persistant universe, ED is some peer to peer lobby game, just without a lobby. 24 ships max. ED is basically single player focused with some co op.

Star Citizen is the real deal

 

Originally posted by Lahuzer
I decided to put in 100£ for E.D. I think E.D needs the cash even more. S.C is already a huge succees. But the more I find out bout E.D, the more I think it's the game for me.

 

bad decision, but hey if you enjoy unfinanced promises for a long time after launch. Most of what they.. "plan".. won´t be in the release. No planet landing, no avatar walking around, no station interiors. Just you and your cockpit.

 

check out X-Rebirth, you can play that one in exactly 4 days when it releases and it has TONS of more features than ED

 

  Imsneaky

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 138

11/12/13 6:34:59 AM#32

Some things I have learned about Star Citizen.

You will be able to fly to other planets.  In fact, you will be able to explore for planets that aren't even charted, and when you are the first to find them, the system or planet will be named after your character.

Modding will not only be supported, but encouraged.  You will be able to create mods for you and your friends to use off the main server, but those judged to be worthy of the main server will be be available for sale to other players.  The person/group that creates the mod will receive real money for their efforts.

Star Citizen will have full support for Oculus Rift.

It is unlikely that Star Citizen will ever be released on console...not without major changes by the console makers.  Roberts is determined not to allow this game to be dumbed down for consoles.  Consoles will likely not have the power to run the graphics, unless they are severely limited compared to the PC version.  While it uses the Cry3 engine, it is ramping it up quite a bit.

In Star Citizen, if you see a building, or object, such as a vehicle, space station, space craft, etc.. you will be able to go to it and interact with it.  No cardboard cutouts to trick the eye.

 

Here is a good video that talks about some of the features.

  Pecisk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/13
Posts: 14

11/12/13 6:39:51 AM#33
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by PumaClipper
Originally posted by Ingvar
SC nor Elite are MMOs

Both SC and Elite are MMO.

BS.

 

SC is server based with a persistant universe, ED is some peer to peer lobby game, just without a lobby. 24 ships max. ED is basically single player focused with some co op.

Star Citizen is the real deal

 

Originally posted by Lahuzer
I decided to put in 100£ for E.D. I think E.D needs the cash even more. S.C is already a huge succees. But the more I find out bout E.D, the more I think it's the game for me. Will prolly put in some to S.C as well, but for now I went with E.D.

 

bad decision, but hey if you enjoy unfinanced promises for a long time after launch. Most of what they.. "plan".. won´t be in the release. No planet landing, no avatar walking around, no station interiors. Just you and your cockpit.

 

check out X-Rebirth, you can play that one in exactly 4 days when it releases and it has TONS of more features than ED

 

Nice try troll. SC is real deal, but ED is too. ED has huge persistant universe, with dynamic peer to peer instances, 32 ships and hundreds of NPCs in them.

And no, expansions is not "planned", they will happen. Same as SC features.

And no, XR doesn't have almost any of ED features, and is completely different game overall.

  Imsneaky

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 138

11/12/13 6:47:47 AM#34
Originally posted by Pecisk
Originally posted by Imsneaky
This is an earlier flight of the 300i in full atmospheric flight but the model is raw with no animations such as the engine, etc...  Terrain is seamless.

It's a player hack, and you can't do it for full planet. No actual functionality coming to the game in nearest future.

With $27 million to play with so far, neither you, nor i, nor anybody else knows what they will have by 2015 when it is expected to be released.

  PumaClipper

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/19/13
Posts: 46

11/12/13 6:57:03 AM#35
Originally posted by Imsneaky
Originally posted by PumaClipper

In Star Citizen you won't do much actual flying in between the planets, since most of the time is spent in autopilot and cut-scenes, it will have cut-scene landings and no Freeform Atmospheric or Freeform interplanetary flight, also Planets and Star Systems won't have Real Distances and Size they will only have an average of 2 planets each and won't have Gravity, Orbits and Rotatations like in Elite: Dangerous.

Come again?!?  It appears that you know more about Elite Dangerous than you do Star Citizen.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQ0qMRZ_1Q

That's an in-engine cinematic cut-scene.

Originally posted by Imsneaky
This is an earlier flight of the 300i in full atmospheric flight but the model is raw with no animations such as the engine, etc...  Terrain is seamless.

That's just a 300i model loaded in another game engine called Outerra, that has nothing to do with Star Citizen or CryEngine.

You are misleading people by using these examples.

Originally posted by Imsneaky

Some things I have learned about Star Citizen.

You will be able to fly to other planets.  In fact, you will be able to explore for planets that aren't even charted, and when you are the first to find them, the system or planet will be named after your character.

Flying to other planets in Star Citizen will be with autopilot only to predetermined landing pads, no freeform interplanetary flight and no freeform atmospheric flight and there won't be many planets to explore since there will only be 115 systems with an average of 2 planets each, unlike Elite: Dangerous which has trillions that aren't charted yet and can be named to you too.

Modding will not only be supported, but encouraged.  You will be able to create mods for you and your friends to use off the main server, but those judged to be worthy of the main server will be be available for sale to other players.  The person/group that creates the mod will receive real money for their efforts.

Star Citizen will have full support for Oculus Rift.

Elite: Dangerous has full Oculus rift support too.

It is unlikely that Star Citizen will ever be released on console...not without major changes by the console makers.  Roberts is determined not to allow this game to be dumbed down for consoles.  Consoles will likely not have the power to run the graphics, unless they are severely limited compared to the PC version.  While it uses the Cry3 engine, it is ramping it up quite a bit.

Chris Roberts is considering next gen consoles.

In Star Citizen, if you see a building, or object, such as a vehicle, space station, space craft, etc.. you will be able to go to it and interact with it.  No cardboard cutouts to trick the eye.

Here is a good video that talks about some of the features.

This is not true, since you won't be able to freely fly through planet atmospheres, also when you see a star in the background you can't go there since it's just a static skybox picture and not a true mapped star like in Elite: Dangerous

  Pecisk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/13
Posts: 14

11/12/13 6:57:57 AM#36
Originally posted by Imsneaky
Originally posted by Pecisk
Originally posted by Imsneaky
This is an earlier flight of the 300i in full atmospheric flight but the model is raw with no animations such as the engine, etc...  Terrain is seamless.

It's a player hack, and you can't do it for full planet. No actual functionality coming to the game in nearest future.

With $27 million to play with so far, neither you, nor i, nor anybody else knows what they will have by 2015 when it is expected to be released.

Sorry, but choice of graphics engine has seriously limited what Roberts can or can't do. To expand it beyond current means they will have to rewrite it almost completely. No amount of pledges can cover that :)

  PumaClipper

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/19/13
Posts: 46

11/12/13 7:00:54 AM#37
Originally posted by Imsneaky
Originally posted by Pecisk
Originally posted by Imsneaky
This is an earlier flight of the 300i in full atmospheric flight but the model is raw with no animations such as the engine, etc...  Terrain is seamless.

It's a player hack, and you can't do it for full planet. No actual functionality coming to the game in nearest future.

With $27 million to play with so far, neither you, nor i, nor anybody else knows what they will have by 2015 when it is expected to be released.

It's wishful thinking, since they would have to rewrite most of CryEngine and their whole approach support that and if it ever comes, 2017? don't expect full planets but just a few limited flying zones.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4700

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

11/12/13 7:07:38 AM#38

ED will be more procedurally generated and sandboxish.

SC will be pre generated and have more predefined content.

 

Almost like distinction between Elite and Freelancer ;)

 

I think both will have their strenghts.

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

11/12/13 7:25:45 AM#39
Well ed will be payable as a multiplayer game a whole year before sc, sp there's no reason not to play both.

Personally I'm more stoked for ed as well its elite, probably the greatest game ever.

Sc I'm a little worried about, its looking more wing commander than Privateer, I wasn't into the former, but Privateer was a great game. Also the ever increasing budget seems to be leading to huge feature creep.

People mentioned x. I'm not interested in x at all, tried the earlier ones, they are too much about industry and ecconomy with not enough emphasis on actual flight and combat.

Another game to look out for is limit theory.

  Imsneaky

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 138

11/12/13 7:32:04 AM#40
Originally posted by PumaClipperThis is not true, since you won't be able to freely fly through planet atmospheres, also when you see a star in the background you can't go there since it's just a static skybox picture and not a true mapped star like in Elite: Dangerous

What you just said is not true.  You can fly manually between planets, which takes much longer but may be rewarded by discoveries like new jump-points, metal rich asteroids, derelict ships etc. You can also use Autopilot which will be faster and may be interrupted if you get into contact with other ships (pirates, traders etc.).

 

As for atmospheric flight, you are right that it is not in game yet, but that does not mean it won't be.  They need mapped out planets first, which they don't have yet.  Once they have that it is Robert's intentions to have free form atmospheric flight.

 

I get that you like Elite Dangerous.  Personally, I will likely try both games.

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