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Star Citizen Forum » General Discussion » YES - Star Citizen IS an MMORPG.. and more..

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41 posts found
  Arakazi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 850

6/02/13 11:54:55 AM#21
Originally posted by Csick

- Each Zone will support 64-100+ players  - That IS massive.  What mmorpg do you know that can have more than that in a single area all fighting at the same time?

I lol'ed

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg></a></p>RL][/CENTER]

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

6/02/13 11:59:06 AM#22

I'm excited for this title but no it's not a MMORPG.It may have RPG elements in upgrading stuff but it's not a RPG so that leaves MMO.

Well it may just qualify as an MMO by some definitions after all some people consider Diablo a MMO....not me but others heh.

But like others have said who gives a crap about labels I just want this game to be fantastic offline and on.I also hope if it is fantastic it sells millions just to tell the AAA developers out there that the space combat simulator genre is not dead as they have decided it is.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5244

6/02/13 12:11:30 PM#23
Originally posted by Arakazi
Originally posted by Csick

- Each Zone will support 64-100+ players  - That IS massive.  What mmorpg do you know that can have more than that in a single area all fighting at the same time?

I lol'ed

sounds more like a counterstrike server tbh, 64-100 isnt exactly very many people, so what happens when people end up near each other, does the server crash or something, Eve's Jita has a hard cap on population, but its a couple of thousand, but even then, CCP have managed to create a system where people can still have battles there if they want, using time dilation, which takes out all the 'lag' that used to surround Eves heavier battles. Curious now to see how big the zones are, and what the actual cap is on them, but it does sound very much like its turning into a Multiplayer online game rather than a Mass Multiplayer online game, I think even Planetside 2 has a hard cap of around 600 players in an area (200v 200 v 200) which for a first person shooter where lag/latency is a critical issue, being able to handle large numbers of players without it affecting the combat, is a huge factor of the game. For Star Citizen to have such a low threshold is, surprising.

  User Deleted
6/05/13 1:12:03 AM#24
Depends on how extensive the collision detection will be (which EVE has close to none). Collision detection is the key that makes a game feel "real" but is also very expensive when it comes to CPU cycles. You need to take this into consideration if you compare SC with EVE.
  eric_w66

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1009

6/06/13 1:54:13 PM#25
Originally posted by Jakdstripper

the only truly massive multiplayer online is EvE. 45,000 people(at peak times) all interacting in the same universe is truly massive. Grand majority of other games have between 2 to 5 thousand player per server max. I would call them Large Multiplayer Online.  

I personally don't like how evasive they are about the whole mmo question with this game. when people are evasive is usually because they know that the truth will disappoint you.

45,000 accounts being botted at one time you mean. And they're separated into thousands of zones, which basically means their in their own "server" at that point, except for chat, which even EQ1 had cross-server chat back in 2000 or so. If you want go by who can see who at any one time, Eve becomes a "Slightly More than A Shoe-Box Shooter Number of Players Multiplayer Online".

 

  Phaserlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 707

Do you want to improve the world? I don't think it can be done. -Lao Tzu

6/07/13 12:10:50 PM#26
Originally posted by eric_w66
Originally posted by Jakdstripper

the only truly massive multiplayer online is EvE. 45,000 people(at peak times) all interacting in the same universe is truly massive. Grand majority of other games have between 2 to 5 thousand player per server max. I would call them Large Multiplayer Online.  

I personally don't like how evasive they are about the whole mmo question with this game. when people are evasive is usually because they know that the truth will disappoint you.

45,000 accounts being botted at one time you mean. And they're separated into thousands of zones, which basically means their in their own "server" at that point, except for chat, which even EQ1 had cross-server chat back in 2000 or so. If you want go by who can see who at any one time, Eve becomes a "Slightly More than A Shoe-Box Shooter Number of Players Multiplayer Online".

 

That's... not really accurate.  Apparently, the battle of asakai had something like 6,000 players all in the same place.  The OP did mention Eve, but no matter how you slice it that's a pretty impressive number. The most I've seen in Vendetta in the same locale is an order of magnitude less, but I understand it's built to handle thousands with things like cloud servers and on-demand computing with the Erlang-based Kourier engine.

"To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
Check it out on Steam

  eric_w66

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1009

6/07/13 6:14:54 PM#27
Originally posted by Phaserlight
Originally posted by eric_w66
Originally posted by Jakdstripper

the only truly massive multiplayer online is EvE. 45,000 people(at peak times) all interacting in the same universe is truly massive. Grand majority of other games have between 2 to 5 thousand player per server max. I would call them Large Multiplayer Online.  

I personally don't like how evasive they are about the whole mmo question with this game. when people are evasive is usually because they know that the truth will disappoint you.

45,000 accounts being botted at one time you mean. And they're separated into thousands of zones, which basically means their in their own "server" at that point, except for chat, which even EQ1 had cross-server chat back in 2000 or so. If you want go by who can see who at any one time, Eve becomes a "Slightly More than A Shoe-Box Shooter Number of Players Multiplayer Online".

 

That's... not really accurate.  Apparently, the battle of asakai had something like 6,000 players all in the same place.  The OP did mention Eve, but no matter how you slice it that's a pretty impressive number. The most I've seen in Vendetta in the same locale is an order of magnitude less, but I understand it's built to handle thousands with things like cloud servers and on-demand computing with the Erlang-based Kourier engine.

Meh, Eve "solved" their problem of zone lag by "time dilation", aka, slow everything down to a crawl. Looks epic when it's sped up 7x... at least... the warping in/out does of capital ships. I'll wait for Star Citizen/Elite: Dangerous though for my space fighting game. Perhaps not 6000 people watching a slide show, but a whole lot more action per second.

  TheYear1500

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 217

6/18/13 3:12:15 PM#28

No it is not an MMO, even says so on the official site.  

 

http://robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-faq/

  Agent_Joseph

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 871

6/19/13 3:46:36 AM#29
I am afraid at final it ll be extended Diablo 3 with space ships on HC mode !

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Mongoose74

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/05
Posts: 3

6/20/13 9:53:34 AM#30

If you are downing this game you have clearly never played a game developed by Sir Roberts before (yeah if Elton John get's knighted so should this guy) His vision quite simply created an entire genre of games. We wouldn't have 3d space flight sim games and certainly not persistent Multiplayer versions if he hadn't always pushed past what people said could be done. 

Will this be an MMO, Yes! With a secondary, optional military plotline that is playable single-player as a tutorial. People who keep referencing Freelancer are apparently too young to remember Privateer, which was possibly the coolest game in the franchise. Back when people thought linear plot lines were still cool and if you forked it here and there you were a God, this guy created a game with infinite variation where you could follow a plotline to one of a hundred conclusions or you could just be a trucker and haul cargo around if you wanted. Based on his track record for groundbreaking games alone this game is worth buying today when it won't be ready for another year at least. And in a year when it comes out you will know I was right.

P.S. It will be a shooter, so it will require actual hard work to get good at it. If you are a player who expects to do something 20 times and get a message "You have gotten better at aiming (10)" you should probably go invest your time in something that isn't for competitive gamers.

  Yalexy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1020

6/20/13 10:02:26 AM#31

You lost me when you claimed that there's nothing being calculated in EvE Online.

EvE Online calculates tons of information, like speed, trajectory, optimal range, falloff, etc, etc, etc...

Oh, and back in 2004 in DAoC we allready had castle-sieges with 300 people involved and the servers could handle it, so stop making threads like this.

100 players is far from massive. A modern multiplayer-shooter has maps of 32 vs 32, so that would be an MMO in your oppinion then... just laughable.

Massively Multplayer Online doesn't refer to the biggest battles of a game either, but the amount of people playing on the same shard simultaneously.
In EvE that's some 50-60k concurrent users online, in WoW the servers are for upto 10-15k players, etc, etc... That's what massive multiplayer refers to.

  Mongoose74

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/05
Posts: 3

6/20/13 10:03:40 AM#32
Originally posted by TheYear1500

No it is not an MMO, even says so on the official site.  

 

http://robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-faq/

What they actually said was it's not going to be locked down to one format. They will have options for offline solo play, modding and private servers. It will, however, be a persistent universe, multiplayer, online game. It will also have content that develops based on player actions. 

In short all they are saying is that you will have options, not that playing it on a game server with hundreds or thousands of others will not be an option.

  TheYear1500

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 217

6/22/13 11:04:19 AM#33
Originally posted by Mongoose74
Originally posted by TheYear1500

No it is not an MMO, even says so on the official site.  

 

http://robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-faq/

What they actually said was it's not going to be locked down to one format. They will have options for offline solo play, modding and private servers. It will, however, be a persistent universe, multiplayer, online game. It will also have content that develops based on player actions. 

In short all they are saying is that you will have options, not that playing it on a game server with hundreds or thousands of others will not be an option.

No that is not what they are saying.  If that was true he would have said Yes and then added that it will also have other options as well.  He directly said that IT was not an MMO.  

  fardreamer

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/03
Posts: 218

"Trust your feelings!"

6/29/13 9:54:35 PM#34
its a persistant space universe with economy and crafting.
  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2648

6/29/13 10:01:40 PM#35
Originally posted by Arakazi
Originally posted by Csick

- Each Zone will support 64-100+ players  - That IS massive.  What mmorpg do you know that can have more than that in a single area all fighting at the same time?

I lol'ed

+1

 

  User Deleted
6/30/13 6:30:13 AM#36
Not sure what you have in mind (+1 is not that talkative). But if you really want to compare a real spacegame with a game like say EVE then only left to say is "get real man".
  Dornin34

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/13
Posts: 16

8/13/13 7:47:33 PM#37
All this game is going to be is a really nice looking space sim. This guy has been making the same game for 25 years and all that changes is the graphics get better. I can't even take this seriously as an MMORPG. All of those suckers forking over thousands to get a big fancy space ship are going to be pretty disappointed I think. I hope this game gets 100mil in funding so when it crashes and burns it will put a rest to this whole scam of  mass scale "crowdfunding". 
  Volkmar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2508

8/14/13 7:05:05 AM#38

So the deal is that the amount of people per instance is not so impressive, ie: 100 or so. The number is not set in stone but it is small due to the massive quality of the models used and the complexity of them all.

To keep the fidelity of the models, they have to cut down on how many people can fight together in the same area.

As many have pointed out, other games have had more people in sieges or massive battles before, but that is usually in games with simple models. Even EVE ships are really simple models with few moving parts compared to even the smallest SC ship.

So what happen if you bring 500 friends to a battle? They get sorted in multiple copies of the same place. So how do I conquer space stations? Not really sure at this point, tough the idea of conquerable space stations IS on the table.

The Persistent Universe, however, IS Persistent like any MMOs. So your character and ships are persistent and can be destroyed. Like in EVE the bigger ships cannot be docked anywhere and remain in the game world, attackable at any time by anyone.

You cannot camp jump points, why? simple. the entry point might be the same place, but the exit point is random, so two way camping is impossible.

You can BOARD enemy ships, fight your way inside and take it over for yourself, the game will feature a fully functioning FPS INSIDE your space sim game, including weapons, armor, customization etc. It would be like if EVE and Dust514 were actually the same game instead of being merely connected.

Finally, it is NOT an RPG, in the sense of Computer Role Pplaying Game, meaning there is no character advancement of any kind, your skills as a player is what makes the difference plus whatever equipment you bring with you.

Mining is skill based, you need to slice the asteroid in the right way to get the juicy precious ore, if you do it wrong you risk losing it all.

The Economy is fully dynamic and works in a system of nodes. Each node has wants and outputs. Each Node generates missions to the mission board and you can fulfill them. A factory will need raw material, you bring them there and it can produce missiles. Nobody bring the materials there? no missiles for anybody.

These missions will also include combat missions as the nodes tracks what happen to their cargo. If a player carrying raw material to a node is blown to pieces by pirates, the Node will generate an escort or pirate hunting mission to kill those pirates, be them PCs or NPCs.

There will be NPCs that do this alongside the players so that the economy cannot be completely choked by an handful of pirates, but it is said there is possibility to blockade planets.

There is also exploration, but we know little of that, though a whopping 67% answered the first poll on it putting Exploration as the first thing they want to do, so you can bet there will be something to do there. My bet is that beside the elusive Jump points (which will be super rare), Explorers will be useful in finding salvageable rare ship wrecks (alien ships and tech), exotic asteroid ore, secret pirate bases and who knows what else.

You can hire NPCs to crew your multi-crew ships in case you have no friends around to help.

Most of you prolly knew all these, but hey, I had some time on my hands.

Oh yeah, final thing. EVE and any other space sim better watch out because SC has over 200K BACKERS already now with not even the first hangar module out (release: Next week!).

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

- My New World of Darkness Tabletop RPG Blog:
http://realmofroleplay.com/?cat=19

  Quazal.A

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 420

8/14/13 7:33:56 AM#39

64-100 massive is lols :)

 

People (rightly or wrongly) have compared massive to eve, and often mention some of the big fleet fights there have been counter arguments thats these fights dont happen often 

Firstly, almost 24/7 fleet fights involving 100+ are going on, you might or will not hear about them, because they dont make news.

But, one place that people have forgotton is Jita - Jita from about an hour into game until it goes down has 1500 - 3000 players in it, and regardless of what you say about EvE (spreadsheet etc) the sheer computing power to handle all the transactions / conversations and killing that goes in Jita 23/7/365 puts the OP statement (above) into context.

Never mind 64-100 massive , should be 64-100 good for most games

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  Quazal.A

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 420

8/14/13 7:50:54 AM#40
Originally posted by Volkmar

So the deal is that the amount of people per instance is not so impressive, ie: 100 or so. The number is not set in stone but it is small due to the massive quality of the models used and the complexity of them all.

To keep the fidelity of the models, they have to cut down on how many people can fight together in the same area.

As many have pointed out, other games have had more people in sieges or massive battles before, but that is usually in games with simple models. Even EVE ships are really simple models with few moving parts compared to even the smallest SC ship.

So what happen if you bring 500 friends to a battle? They get sorted in multiple copies of the same place. So how do I conquer space stations? Not really sure at this point, tough the idea of conquerable space stations IS on the table.

The Persistent Universe, however, IS Persistent like any MMOs. So your character and ships are persistent and can be destroyed. Like in EVE the bigger ships cannot be docked anywhere and remain in the game world, attackable at any time by anyone.

You cannot camp jump points, why? simple. the entry point might be the same place, but the exit point is random, so two way camping is impossible.

You can BOARD enemy ships, fight your way inside and take it over for yourself, the game will feature a fully functioning FPS INSIDE your space sim game, including weapons, armor, customization etc. It would be like if EVE and Dust514 were actually the same game instead of being merely connected.

Finally, it is NOT an RPG, in the sense of Computer Role Pplaying Game, meaning there is no character advancement of any kind, your skills as a player is what makes the difference plus whatever equipment you bring with you.

Mining is skill based, you need to slice the asteroid in the right way to get the juicy precious ore, if you do it wrong you risk losing it all.

The Economy is fully dynamic and works in a system of nodes. Each node has wants and outputs. Each Node generates missions to the mission board and you can fulfill them. A factory will need raw material, you bring them there and it can produce missiles. Nobody bring the materials there? no missiles for anybody.

These missions will also include combat missions as the nodes tracks what happen to their cargo. If a player carrying raw material to a node is blown to pieces by pirates, the Node will generate an escort or pirate hunting mission to kill those pirates, be them PCs or NPCs.

There will be NPCs that do this alongside the players so that the economy cannot be completely choked by an handful of pirates, but it is said there is possibility to blockade planets.

There is also exploration, but we know little of that, though a whopping 67% answered the first poll on it putting Exploration as the first thing they want to do, so you can bet there will be something to do there. My bet is that beside the elusive Jump points (which will be super rare), Explorers will be useful in finding salvageable rare ship wrecks (alien ships and tech), exotic asteroid ore, secret pirate bases and who knows what else.

You can hire NPCs to crew your multi-crew ships in case you have no friends around to help.

Most of you prolly knew all these, but hey, I had some time on my hands.

Oh yeah, final thing. EVE and any other space sim better watch out because SC has over 200K BACKERS already now with not even the first hangar module out (release: Next week!).

Ok

If i may respond to the comments in red

 

Eve has little moving parts on ships and they are static models, Have you not seen the tracking of EVERY gun on EVERY ship during a fight, whilst fairly new, this is something that is in game, so lets assume a ship has 6 guns and there are 50 ships thats over 300 moving parts per player and then multiply by 50 players thats over 15,000 moving parts for a silly little 50 man flght, now add to the fact that each gun fires at a rate of anywhere between 2secs and 15secs thats a lot of ammo that needs trajectory calculated.

So nope eve has little movement or modesl to worry about

 

So you can board enemy ship, when you board this ship what happens, ? This bit i dont know much about but im assumign that if you board my ship my game would carry on as if you were not on the ship? If not then it is no different to dust and eve - If by boarding my ship my games change from Space-Sim > Fps then its no different to the change that happens between eve and planet bombing (please note im not an expert on the interaction in your game or eve & dust {i dont like the idea of dust myself})

 

Having NPCs to handle the bits that players dont/cant do is bad, if a game wants to challenge the leader EvE then it needs to make the players have control, if NPC have control then its like saying "our players are dumb and cannot get around the obsticales and as such need a helping hand".

Having to hire NPCs to help pilot your ship, how about either A get a friend if you cant then your not playing an MMO or pilot a ship that allows you as a single player to do, having NPCs interact and even take over the actions of another play merely caters for the fact that there is not enough players expected in game.

It should be that (and note i dont know or honestly care how it works) that you can post a want to hire a "specialist" into a market area and then another player takes the role for payment received. Then the new player to your ships crew has the option to complete/help complete the mission / plan you have or even the option to sabotage your mission. 

I would realy just want to highlight this last point  about the backers as LOL in 10years since eve has been released we have  seen  the following 'sci-fi' mmos come out

Ace Online

Anarchy Online

Battlestar Galactica Online

Black Prophecy

Diaspora

Doctor Who: Worlds in Time

Earthrise

Earth & Beyond

Empire & State

Entropia Universe

Face of Mankind

Jumpgate: The Reconstruction Initiative

Jumpgate: Evolution

Pardus

Perpetuum

Phantasy Star Online 2

RF Online

Ryzom

Star Trek Online

Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars: The Old Republic

Stargate Worlds

StarQuest Online

Tabula Rasa

Terra

Vendetta Online

 

Now a lot of them might not rival Eve onlines style but lets be honest how many have said "this game will knock EvE of its perch, and of them how many are still growing".
look in other games forums at the "this game will be the WoW killer" fact is games wont , Wow will suffer from its own failures and its likely the EvE will go the same way
If you think a crowd funded game will stand up against EvE i will wish you well in your fantasy, look at the list above, and consider some of the franchises that have tried to jump into the sci-fi market and failed miserably, please please please dont over think something, see how the game is going in 10 years then you can say "this game beat eve" but im thinking that wont be the case

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

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