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Star Citizen Forum » General Discussion » Permadeath in Star Citizen! Yup, this game will be hardcore!

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56 posts found
  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1532

4/26/13 6:51:46 AM#21

Hello,

this is fantastic news! There are way too many so called "carebear" mechanics in today´s games in my opinion.

The "death of a spaceman" article was a real eye opener - glad I backed this game with 80$

Last time I checked the total funds for this game were close to 9.000.000 $

Cheers

Doc B

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1925

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

4/26/13 6:54:59 AM#22

"a spaceman came travelling on his ship from afar ... 't was light years of time since his mission did start."

 

 

sounds promising, looking forward to it :)

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Caldrin

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4237

4/26/13 7:48:06 AM#23
Sounds pretty bloody good to me..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1507

5/06/13 4:44:58 AM#24
Originally posted by desdecardo

Wish I had known about this.  Now I feel like my pledge has gone to a game that will flail just above failure like Eve.  Money wasted.  Perma Death = Failure in MMOs and RPGs.  It wont succed once people know about this.  All it takes is one epic failure and the game gets a fail amongst the mass of gammers out there.  So long Star Citizen and thanks for all the fish, before the fish have even been handed out.

 

Its not a successful format for MMOs and gets changed the moment developers realize that any form of perma death = game failure.  Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  Otherwise it will fail and people will be upset that they wasted money on funding a developer that doesnt know MMOs or RPGs or Space games period.

Well.. but Star Citizen is not a RPG. You dont have Character Stats or Skills in the usual RPG sense.. you dont have Levels and you dont Level up. Your leveling is more or less increase of assets. And your assets will be handed on to your descendants. (your new avatar)

And if you ask me.. it is a good thing. It will increase the value of accomplishments. It will create some kind of history. It will introduce risk vs reward. And the punishment for dying is well balanced. Not to harsh, but not completely meaningless either.

 

Originally posted by Roughshod
Originally posted by sea.shell

In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

Oh, I had misunderstood this.

So if you don't learn skills, and there are systems in the game to preserve some of your assets other than those directly lost in the death (your ship and stuff in the ship), and additionally you don't have to replay the Squadron 42 part:

"No, everything you earned from Squadron 42 the first time will pass on: Citizenship, credits earned, starter ship and the like. If your beneficiary was a citizen his/her status will pass on down to you as well with a probation period that you have to perform some actions / missions / job to keep the Citizenship in good standing. You will have the option of playing a second campaign if you so desire, but it will not be required."

Then... this is technically permadeath... but you lose nothing other than your name and score/pvp ranking? No real progress loss? Is it just a worry for people who care about top scores then?

Well... more or less. And you have to make a new Avatar.. completely different look and name. (the surname could be the same of course.. Son of.. )

  outfctrl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/03
Posts: 3630

American by Birth
Biker by choice
Patriot forever

5/16/13 3:13:34 PM#25

By reading about the death penalty, insurance costs, ship upgrades and medical bills, money and I mean allot of money will be needed to survive in this game.

I just hope gold (money) sellers don't ruin this game.  They always seem to infiltrate mmo games with their spamming.

Does anyone know if there are going to be checks in place that will prevent this from happening?

Just curious.

  Csick

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 12

5/16/13 5:28:07 PM#26
Originally posted by outfctrl

By reading about the death penalty, insurance costs, ship upgrades and medical bills, money and I mean allot of money will be needed to survive in this game.

I just hope gold (money) sellers don't ruin this game.  They always seem to infiltrate mmo games with their spamming.

Does anyone know if there are going to be checks in place that will prevent this from happening?

Just curious.

Where there is digital currency, there will be Chinese farmers. The only way you can prevent this is if the currency has no value.   But as long as their efforts are worth what were willing to pay in $$ then they will continue to exist. What they can do is filter chat and ban gold advertisers. 

 

You're right, the credits do seem to be the lifeblood of your character. It's what you Wager everytime you go out into no-sec space... It has value, its loss is noticed. This is what makes the game so fun. Have you ever played poker with real money? Have you played it with fake money? Completely different experience. The only reason your going to need an endless supply of creds is if you keep dying and losing... 

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6530

"I fight so you don't have to."

5/16/13 5:38:30 PM#27

Since characters in the game are mere cosmetic entities, or so they claim, I guess it would be fine for perma death of that character. However, there needs to be a balance between being realistic and being fun. 

I dont find Eve combat very fun because, if you die, you lose ALOT of time doing mindnumbing ISK gathering activities. For some ships you lose only the time to get your ship back together, which could be anything from 10 to 30 minutes of flying around to get the parts.

However if you lose a T2 Battleship, you are looking at weeks, if not months of time to recouperate the cost. That is NOT fun and I hope Star Citizen does not go that route. Because then only the people who spend every waking hour playing the game will be able to enjoy the most powerful ships or you would have to spend hundreds of euro/dollars every month to replace all those ships. Again NOT fun.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6848

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/16/13 5:44:19 PM#28

It is not really perma death and is imo just a cheap copy of Eve.I call it cheap not because it does it worse than Eve but cheap because it is still copying the same basic idea.Insurance is an Eve idea,why go the EXACT same route?

Ejecting from your ship out into space,how on earth would you actually survive or make it anywhere with no engine or propulsion method.He basically  talked up a storm for several paragraphs just to say you COULD die but probably won't and even your ship will be replaced,so ya just like Eve and really you lose nothing  dependent on how costly insurance is.I see it as a really bad design and one that could probably recreate the very blemish Eve has  and that is RMT .

Furthermore once you have that SYSTEM in place that  either encourages a ton of RMT or done via cash shop,you have now ruined the entire game economy again points finger at Eve.

This also points again to a copy of Eve because it sounds like the ONLY combat and ONLY REAL character you have is your ship.So your player  can't be killed on any planet or anywhere outside of the ship.There goes that long speech about immersion he was building towards.

Simple truth about this type of game is it could be an absolute great game to play and even i would paly it IF it was done right.The other simple fact is that this type of game is like building two games in one,first the ship universe and content and then the needed support  content that proves you are actually a player and not just a ship avatar.

I am a STRONG believer in that if you can't do a genre or game properly,you should not be doing it at all,otherwise it is just more F2p spam on an already over saturated market.I want to start seeing quality games that push the envelope and really open some eyes.A good solid game would bring players from all genres and all aspects of gaming if it were just done right.

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Samoan Diamond

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

5/16/13 6:00:20 PM#29
Sounds really neat to me.  But yeah, it's a well thought out work-around to permadeath, not really permadeath.  I mean, according to your character's story it surely is, but functionally.. you lose faction standing and resources.
  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

5/16/13 6:01:55 PM#30
Originally posted by Wizardry

It is not really perma death and is imo just a cheap copy of Eve.I call it cheap not because it does it worse than Eve but cheap because it is still copying the same basic idea.Insurance is an Eve idea,why go the EXACT same route?

Ejecting from your ship out into space,how on earth would you actually survive or make it anywhere with no engine or propulsion method.He basically  talked up a storm for several paragraphs just to say you COULD die but probably won't and even your ship will be replaced,so ya just like Eve and really you lose nothing  dependent on how costly insurance is.I see it as a really bad design and one that could probably recreate the very blemish Eve has  and that is RMT .

Furthermore once you have that SYSTEM in place that  either encourages a ton of RMT or done via cash shop,you have now ruined the entire game economy again points finger at Eve.

This also points again to a copy of Eve because it sounds like the ONLY combat and ONLY REAL character you have is your ship.So your player  can't be killed on any planet or anywhere outside of the ship.There goes that long speech about immersion he was building towards.

Simple truth about this type of game is it could be an absolute great game to play and even i would paly it IF it was done right.The other simple fact is that this type of game is like building two games in one,first the ship universe and content and then the needed support  content that proves you are actually a player and not just a ship avatar.

I am a STRONG believer in that if you can't do a genre or game properly,you should not be doing it at all,otherwise it is just more F2p spam on an already over saturated market.I want to start seeing quality games that push the envelope and really open some eyes.A good solid game would bring players from all genres and all aspects of gaming if it were just done right.

Reading the article, it states that your character can be killed while off the ship.

  Asheram

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1898

What happens when you get 5 stars do you get a cookie? ;)

5/16/13 7:30:28 PM#31
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by desdecardo

 Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

Thanks for the laugh.

And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

 

They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

  AreWeLive

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/06/12
Posts: 92

5/16/13 11:46:40 PM#32
Originally posted by Asheram
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by desdecardo

 Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

Thanks for the laugh.

And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

 

They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

 I really do not see this as targeting eve at all, the play styles are so different, in eve your a the commander of the ship and in SC your a fighter in fps... (BTW freelancer was once of my fav games, I actually came to eve from there (beta testing) cause i wanted more and it took me a long time to accept i was the commander and not the fighter).

 As for the permadeath,,this can make or break a game, i know lots of games have backed off this simply because if you have this system there is a lot of ppl out there that will not play it at all. I am not a big fan of "total permAdeath", variations of it like eves or maybe darkfalls would be fine to me.

 I am really looking forward to this game and hope the idea of permadeath does not kill this game.

 

 

 

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

5/17/13 12:00:08 AM#33
Originally posted by AreWeLive
Originally posted by Asheram
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by desdecardo

 Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

Thanks for the laugh.

And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

 

They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

 I really do not see this as targeting eve at all, the play styles are so different, in eve your a the commander of the ship and in SC your a fighter in fps... (BTW freelancer was once of my fav games, I actually came to eve from there (beta testing) cause i wanted more and it took me a long time to accept i was the commander and not the fighter).

 As for the permadeath,,this can make or break a game, i know lots of games have backed off this simply because if you have this system there is a lot of ppl out there that will not play it at all. I am not a big fan of "total permAdeath", variations of it like eves or maybe darkfalls would be fine to me.

 I am really looking forward to this game and hope the idea of permadeath does not kill this game.

 

 

 

im a little confused on something your talking about, you are aware that in eve its not that your a commander of the ship so mauch as your the only person in the ship right?, eve ships are all controlled by one person due to some plot item i ant rember, there is no crew or anything.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  AvsRock21

Novice Member

Joined: 7/26/10
Posts: 262

5/20/13 4:34:06 PM#34
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by AreWeLive
Originally posted by Asheram
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by desdecardo

 Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

Thanks for the laugh.

And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

 

They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

 I really do not see this as targeting eve at all, the play styles are so different, in eve your a the commander of the ship and in SC your a fighter in fps... (BTW freelancer was once of my fav games, I actually came to eve from there (beta testing) cause i wanted more and it took me a long time to accept i was the commander and not the fighter).

 As for the permadeath,,this can make or break a game, i know lots of games have backed off this simply because if you have this system there is a lot of ppl out there that will not play it at all. I am not a big fan of "total permAdeath", variations of it like eves or maybe darkfalls would be fine to me.

 I am really looking forward to this game and hope the idea of permadeath does not kill this game.

 

 

 

im a little confused on something your talking about, you are aware that in eve its not that your a commander of the ship so mauch as your the only person in the ship right?, eve ships are all controlled by one person due to some plot item i ant rember, there is no crew or anything.

You couldn't be more incorrect. Have you even played EVE? In EVE you are a capsuleer, which is synonymous with a commander. If you have played EVE, it's obvious you didn't read much of anything. Multiple times I have come across references, in-game, that talk about your ships crew. Also, it is uniformly accepted through the EVE community that you are the commander of a ship. The larger ships are stated to carry crews that number in the thousands. It makes no sense otherwise. Even the frigates are very big and require a crew. Also, the control scheme is that of a commander, and not a pilot / one-man crew... The only single pilot ships in the game are drones. 

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

5/25/13 7:51:35 PM#35

sorry to ask but perma death means you need to create new char daily?=D

and why it so exiting, by the way?

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  fardreamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/27/03
Posts: 224

"Trust your feelings!"

5/25/13 7:58:40 PM#36
Originally posted by sea.shell

In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

this is on the point. thanks sea.shell!

  Ladrann27

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/13
Posts: 43

6/15/13 3:54:50 PM#37

This is very good, I like this idea. There needs to be some form of consequence when dying, because that is the only way to really make you care about winning or losing a fight. I have had so many adrenaline rushes when playing EVE, especially in an expensive ship. It makes winning a fight so much better, but if you loose, the penalty's are not as hard that you cannot overcome them.

 

Looking forward to getting more info on this game!

  Quazal.A

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 420

6/15/13 4:13:41 PM#38
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by AreWeLive
Originally posted by Asheram
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by desdecardo

 Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

Thanks for the laugh.

And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

 

They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

 I really do not see this as targeting eve at all, the play styles are so different, in eve your a the commander of the ship and in SC your a fighter in fps... (BTW freelancer was once of my fav games, I actually came to eve from there (beta testing) cause i wanted more and it took me a long time to accept i was the commander and not the fighter).

 As for the permadeath,,this can make or break a game, i know lots of games have backed off this simply because if you have this system there is a lot of ppl out there that will not play it at all. I am not a big fan of "total permAdeath", variations of it like eves or maybe darkfalls would be fine to me.

 I am really looking forward to this game and hope the idea of permadeath does not kill this game.

 

 

 

im a little confused on something your talking about, you are aware that in eve its not that your a commander of the ship so mauch as your the only person in the ship right?, eve ships are all controlled by one person due to some plot item i ant rember, there is no crew or anything.

If i may link this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

this shows you the rough crew per ship, IE 1-2 for shuttles upto 6k-10k for titans, also tells you the what sorta survival rate you would get if these ships where destroyed lol

 

Gotta say for all the reference to this game and eve about the perma death, people are focussing on the ISK cost in eve , and maybe hassle of replacement of ships etc.

How about loss of REAL time for instance any T3 skill lost at level 5 is a 4.5days of real time training, heck i have even lost Battleship 5 skill (due to being podded then station i was reborn at didn't have a working clone bay) and lost almost 16days of real time training..

Now can you tell me ANY game that you lose real time .. heck if you consider its $10 per month then i lost $5 by getting my ass wooped.... Now that is as harsh as it comes...

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  hfztt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 648

6/15/13 4:16:57 PM#39

He is over thinking this game so much.

In a persistent universe its the player behind the character that becomes a legend. Names and looks means nothing. So really there is nothing more harsh about this system than EVE's system.

The design is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either they will have to make names somehow tell you who the player behind the screen is (think same last name, but new surname) but that eliminates the penalty: The player really becomes the legend. Or they anonymity offered by a complete new name will be the greifers dream. EVE greifers would die for a way to change their characters name.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

7/04/13 8:38:05 PM#40
Originally posted by sea.shell

In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

That's a downer.

For those of us who use the same name in various games, having to add numbers and whatever to it is just a turnoff. Furthermore, it'll look spammy.

And as others pointed out permadeath is a major turn off to most players (and one reason is because they prefer to character develop, not make throw away toons).

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