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Darkfall: Unholy Wars Forum » General Discussion » MMOs comparable to DarkFall's full-loot PvP rule-set

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53 posts found
  User Deleted
1/28/13 4:18:25 PM#21
Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Biskop
Why do you need full loot to enjoy a game? Just curios, I enjoy full loot games myself but to me it's more important that a game is well designed, working, and fully fleshed out feature-wise.

There is no consequenses if you die in a non-loot games, it`s like playing poker with fake money.

Totally boring.

 

Agreed thats a good analogy. No full loot  takes any adrenaline or emotions I have for a game and shits on it. 

 

Not many people think like us though which leads me to believe I have a pre-existing condition (addictive personality?) that forces me to play full loot games or lose interest.

You are probably correct on the addivtive personality thing.  It's basically like a gambling addiction.  Something has to be on the line to make it feel like there's risk.

I wouldn't say that's a good thing... but it's probably accurate.  People like that usually don't play video games though.  At best, they go out and climb mountains, wrestle bears, and generally die young.  At worst, they lose everything in Vegas and spend their lives chasing the thrill of the win, end up addicted to some drug, or both.

 

Some games tap into it without using combat as well.  Look at SWtOR and their loot boxes.  Those things wouldn't be nearly as satisfying to open if they were free.  Magic the Gathering as well.  I remember how it was never really that fun helping friends open their packs (we'd buy in boxes) because they weren't really mine and I had nothing invested.

  xzyax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/08
Posts: 2492

 
OP  1/28/13 7:55:04 PM#22
Originally posted by 123443211234

You should really change the title to something like "full loot" mmos because there really is no comparible mmo to darkfall when talking about pvp.  That is why people liked it so much it was a unique fps mmo experience.

 

Also,  Archeage must be removed from that list, tab target pvp is not comparable to darkfall's aim based pvp at all on any level.

There are a number that disagree on the point with Archeage, so I will leave it up.  EvE is also a "tab-target" style pvp.  

To me the "target-lock" vs. "free-style" is more a FPS argument.  

  xzyax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/08
Posts: 2492

 
OP  1/28/13 7:58:25 PM#23
Originally posted by Snoepie

im sorry but this thread is useless..

 

there is no such game compared to darkfall pvp..

 

How on earth are people responding with tab target games??!

 

 

I could be wrong... but I don't believe there is anything stopping you from creating a thread with whatever criteria you want.  Who knows, if you word it correctly I may even pop in and post something snarky in it.  

  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1646

1/28/13 9:57:38 PM#24

The difference is, when i kill you, i don't want you to feel happy about it. I want you to be mad while i take everything from you. With that hanger, you do what ever you want. You can either rage quit, you can join a large clan so you will never die again or you can simply decide to get better to prevent this event from happening again.

Also, there's no other way to find pvp while standing still; you must go look for it. You can't just Q up for a Battle Ground just to find pvp with absulutely no effort from yourself.

I tried playing theme parks mmo's and wow is where i started mind you. From level 1 to cap, open world pvp is quite alive and fun, but you only kill to secure your mob spawn. Once your quest is done, you just move on to the next spawn. When end game comes, you got ppl spawning flying mounts just to skip the whole open world pvp. What the fuck!? So now, you're left to play in pvp area's, bg's or arena's. I rather play Battlefield 3 or a sport game instead. Also, open world pvp in most mmorpg's are meaningless since you're not getting enough and thats what really kills the shit.

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 4085

1/29/13 2:52:50 PM#25
Shadowbane.... unfortunately RIP

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/29/13 3:07:28 PM#26

erm lineage2?

eve and perp are full loot, but very different combat.

  Azdul

Novice Member

Joined: 11/11/09
Posts: 433

1/30/13 5:30:01 AM#27
Originally posted by asmkm22

You are probably correct on the addivtive personality thing.  It's basically like a gambling addiction.  Something has to be on the line to make it feel like there's risk.

I wouldn't say that's a good thing... but it's probably accurate.  People like that usually don't play video games though.  At best, they go out and climb mountains, wrestle bears, and generally die young.  At worst, they lose everything in Vegas and spend their lives chasing the thrill of the win, end up addicted to some drug, or both.

 

Some games tap into it without using combat as well.  Look at SWtOR and their loot boxes.  Those things wouldn't be nearly as satisfying to open if they were free.  Magic the Gathering as well.  I remember how it was never really that fun helping friends open their packs (we'd buy in boxes) because they weren't really mine and I had nothing invested.

Full loot games are not like that.

Most MMOs have guaranteed reward for your efforts and time. The rules are bent in your favor from the beginning. Designers try to create game, rather than virtual world. They don't want players to kill and loot others, because they want to control the game experience. This game experience is tuned for average player skill - that's why if you play long enough - you become "too good" - and game challenges feel trivial, and overcoming them is not satisfying,

It's not the case when the game experience is not so tightly controlled - there is always next real challenge just around the corner - and that's why it may get addicting.

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 885

There's some lovely filth down here.

1/30/13 5:37:42 AM#28
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Shadowbane.... unfortunately RIP

I really wish I knew about SB in its heyday.  I've heard nothing but good things about it - except for the fact that it shut down.

 

Sorry to ferail slightly here, but why DID it shut down?  All the positives I hear from those who have played it, it's got me wondering just why it's not still going.

  Azdul

Novice Member

Joined: 11/11/09
Posts: 433

1/30/13 5:50:47 AM#29
Originally posted by jdlamson75

I really wish I knew about SB in its heyday.  I've heard nothing but good things about it - except for the fact that it shut down.

Sorry to ferail slightly here, but why DID it shut down?  All the positives I hear from those who have played it, it's got me wondering just why it's not still going.

I've heard that they had plans to keep going, but decided that they couldn't compete with certain new game.

The promise of "no flying classes" and "free aim" in this new game was enough for SB players to jump ship.

 

  RandomDown

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 146

1/30/13 6:03:52 AM#30
Originally posted by 123443211234
Originally posted by xzyax
Originally posted by RandomDown
Originally posted by 123443211234
Originally posted by Snoepie

im sorry but this thread is useless..

 correct

there is no such game compared to darkfall pvp..

 correct

How on earth are people responding with tab target games??!

 idiots

 

Because these morons are discussing full loot games, NOT comparing pvp as the thread title would suggest.

Actually you are the idiot and moron here. He is discussing rule sets. That is, full loot ffa pvp. The mechanism used to participate, be it tab targeting or fps is not relevant. So maybe read the OPs post and understand it. Don't just read the thread title and understand the OP.

Thanks Random.

I have changed the title of the thread a bit to try and make it more clear for... 

No randomdown you are the idiot here.  See the original OP even had to edit his post and change the title because you guys are so dumb.  You are talking about two completely different aspects and acting as if they are the same or equal.

 

FYI full loot is a ruleset and has nothing to do with the combat mechanics of said game.

 

There really is no other comparable PVP to Darkfall, but yes there are plenty of other full loot or semi loot games, NONE OF THEM ANYTHING LIKE OR REMOTELY CLOSE TO THE PVP IN DARKFALL!

Yes that is exactly what I said full loot is. It is a rule set and has nothing to do with it. And I stated they were in fact two different aspects that you were conflating as if they were relevant with one another.

 

Actually he changed the title because of posters like you (see the sentence before this). Since you don't bother reading or comprehending what is written, just see the title and go "derp" and post nonsense. Plenty of PVP is comparable to Darkfall, in fact all is since it is simply the act of player versus player combat that you would be comparing, unless of course you mean the fps system it uses. But hey you didn't make that crystal clear and I figure I'll play it your way and refuse to infer anything of worth.

 

Also Shadowbane shut down mostly because of its launch and subsequent situation with population. As much fun as I had it had a lot of problems and bugs. Constant daily and hourly server rollbacks, crashing, exploiting etc etc that were just not fixed in a timely fashion at all. And since the whole F2P movement wasn't around they didin't have the notion to try that at first or anything. I know a second release came about that had something to do with playing for free/cheap but that didn't work out either.

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

1/30/13 6:27:25 AM#31
Originally posted by Snoepie

im sorry but this thread is useless..

 

there is no such game compared to darkfall pvp..

 

How on earth are people responding with tab target games??!

 

 

Having a player aiming combat don't make it de facto better than other type of combat, this was proven by DF itself sadely. You also have reactiony type of turn based combat, that feel a lot more actiony (Uo combat here) than a crappy fps port on a sword&spell environement. Quake was made in 80, fps are way better now, look at M&B, which was supposed to be what Df was aiming for between (this is from the mouth of the dev between). They had a choice they made somewhat early in development, they went for a crappy combat system to handle big siege. That's their game, they made whatever they want with it, just like their player base made whatever they wanted with that... which is leaving the game because it doesn't play very well, and because nobody wanted lineage3, koreans are doing that already. It wasn't what an european company that is supposed to be smarter and deeper should have done, it was supposed to be Uo2, because that's what a good mmo company that is not driven by money but by their players should have aimed for. They missed their shot, end of story, gl to you and Aventurine.

  xzyax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/08
Posts: 2492

 
OP  1/30/13 7:48:03 AM#32
Originally posted by 123443211234
Originally posted by xzyax
Originally posted by RandomDown
Originally posted by 123443211234
Originally posted by Snoepie

im sorry but this thread is useless..

 correct

there is no such game compared to darkfall pvp..

 correct

How on earth are people responding with tab target games??!

 idiots

 

Because these morons are discussing full loot games, NOT comparing pvp as the thread title would suggest.

Actually you are the idiot and moron here. He is discussing rule sets. That is, full loot ffa pvp. The mechanism used to participate, be it tab targeting or fps is not relevant. So maybe read the OPs post and understand it. Don't just read the thread title and understand the OP.

Thanks Random.

I have changed the title of the thread a bit to try and make it more clear for... 

No randomdown you are the idiot here.  See the original OP even had to edit his post and change the title because you guys are so dumb.  You are talking about two completely different aspects and acting as if they are the same or equal.

 

FYI full loot is a ruleset and has nothing to do with the combat mechanics of said game.

 

There really is no other comparable PVP to Darkfall, but yes there are plenty of other full loot or semi loot games, NONE OF THEM ANYTHING LIKE OR REMOTELY CLOSE TO THE PVP IN DARKFALL!

The title wasn't changed for Random.  

Most people understood the concept, we just didn't get bogged down with semantics.  

  xzyax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/08
Posts: 2492

 
OP  1/30/13 7:52:17 AM#33
Originally posted by ShakyMo

erm lineage2?

eve and perp are full loot, but very different combat.

perp? 

Not familiar with that title.   Could you give a bit more info.  Thanks.

 

Lineage 2 -- while being a very robust PvP centric MMO doesn't really allow for full-loot.  It has come up a couple times both for and against being on this list though, so I will re-examine it once again and perhaps bring it up again for a more definitive consensus. 

  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

1/30/13 8:50:42 AM#34
Originally posted by xzyax
Originally posted by ShakyMo

erm lineage2?

eve and perp are full loot, but very different combat.

perp? 

Not familiar with that title.   Could you give a bit more info.  Thanks.

Perpetuum.  It's a game that is heavily based on eve, but instead of spaceships, it is robots on a planets landscape.  Pilots control their bots from satellites above the planets surface.  There are safe zone and full pvp zones - instanced continent islands.  There are better resources in the PVP areas, and higher end PVE mobs.  You can also build player-made bases from scratch, all customer designed.

Was a fun game when it was populated, but last time I logged in it was was very low pop.

  xzyax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/08
Posts: 2492

 
OP  1/30/13 11:14:02 AM#35
Originally posted by psykobilly
Originally posted by xzyax
Originally posted by ShakyMo

erm lineage2?

eve and perp are full loot, but very different combat.

perp? 

Not familiar with that title.   Could you give a bit more info.  Thanks.

Perpetuum.  It's a game that is heavily based on eve, but instead of spaceships, it is robots on a planets landscape.  Pilots control their bots from satellites above the planets surface.  There are safe zone and full pvp zones - instanced continent islands.  There are better resources in the PVP areas, and higher end PVE mobs.  You can also build player-made bases from scratch, all customer designed.

Was a fun game when it was populated, but last time I logged in it was was very low pop.

Thanks for the extra info.  I did some cursory information gathering on this MMO, but still haven't seen it discussed if the PvP loot rules are full-loot or some sub-set of that.  Do you, or anyone reading this thread happen to know?

Edit: After doing some more digging I am pretty sure that it is full-loot away from the alpha islands.  I think this qualifies as an MMO that meets the criteria for this thread.  I will add it onto the list, but am open to discussion as to why or why not that it should be removed/added.  As always... lets try and keep the discussions civil.  

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

1/30/13 11:50:03 AM#36
Originally posted by Biskop
Why do you need full loot to enjoy a game? Just curios, I enjoy full loot games myself but to me it's more important that a game is well designed, working, and fully fleshed out feature-wise.

It's a valid play style.  Risk vs Reward is much, much higher and can be exciting if it's a good game.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

1/30/13 1:50:05 PM#37
Originally posted by xzyax

Perpetuum.  It's a game that is heavily based on eve, but instead of spaceships, it is robots on a planets landscape.  Pilots control their bots from satellites above the planets surface.  There are safe zone and full pvp zones - instanced continent islands.  There are better resources in the PVP areas, and higher end PVE mobs.  You can also build player-made bases from scratch, all customer designed.

Was a fun game when it was populated, but last time I logged in it was was very low pop.

Thanks for the extra info.  I did some cursory information gathering on this MMO, but still haven't seen it discussed if the PvP loot rules are full-loot or some sub-set of that.  Do you, or anyone reading this thread happen to know?

Edit: After doing some more digging I am pretty sure that it is full-loot away from the alpha islands.  I think this qualifies as an MMO that meets the criteria for this thread.  I will add it onto the list, but am open to discussion as to why or why not that it should be removed/added.  As always... lets try and keep the discussions civil.  

Kind of full loot?  When you kill a bot there is a mini-nuclear explosion that melts the bot to pieces.  If you are lucky the bot will drop some of its weapon and equipment load, so it is partial loot based on luck - but the bot owner loses everything.

 

  Snoepie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/18/07
Posts: 490

1/30/13 2:21:23 PM#38
Originally posted by Requiamer
Originally posted by Snoepie

im sorry but this thread is useless..

 

there is no such game compared to darkfall pvp..

 

How on earth are people responding with tab target games??!

 

 

Having a player aiming combat don't make it de facto better than other type of combat, this was proven by DF itself sadely. You also have reactiony type of turn based combat, that feel a lot more actiony (Uo combat here) than a crappy fps port on a sword&spell environement. Quake was made in 80, fps are way better now, look at M&B, which was supposed to be what Df was aiming for between (this is from the mouth of the dev between). They had a choice they made somewhat early in development, they went for a crappy combat system to handle big siege. That's their game, they made whatever they want with it, just like their player base made whatever they wanted with that... which is leaving the game because it doesn't play very well, and because nobody wanted lineage3, koreans are doing that already. It wasn't what an european company that is supposed to be smarter and deeper should have done, it was supposed to be Uo2, because that's what a good mmo company that is not driven by money but by their players should have aimed for. They missed their shot, end of story, gl to you and Aventurine.

thanks for the info dude..

 

after 8 years of following this game and playing active for 4 years its nice to see that some forum warrior here knows everything better..

ahh wel.. i think its strikes your ego right.. 

 

have fun..

  xzyax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/08
Posts: 2492

 
OP  1/30/13 3:01:57 PM#39
Originally posted by psykobilly
Originally posted by xzyax

Perpetuum.  It's a game that is heavily based on eve, but instead of spaceships, it is robots on a planets landscape.  Pilots control their bots from satellites above the planets surface.  There are safe zone and full pvp zones - instanced continent islands.  There are better resources in the PVP areas, and higher end PVE mobs.  You can also build player-made bases from scratch, all customer designed.

Was a fun game when it was populated, but last time I logged in it was was very low pop.

Thanks for the extra info.  I did some cursory information gathering on this MMO, but still haven't seen it discussed if the PvP loot rules are full-loot or some sub-set of that.  Do you, or anyone reading this thread happen to know?

Edit: After doing some more digging I am pretty sure that it is full-loot away from the alpha islands.  I think this qualifies as an MMO that meets the criteria for this thread.  I will add it onto the list, but am open to discussion as to why or why not that it should be removed/added.  As always... lets try and keep the discussions civil.  

Kind of full loot?  When you kill a bot there is a mini-nuclear explosion that melts the bot to pieces.  If you are lucky the bot will drop some of its weapon and equipment load, so it is partial loot based on luck - but the bot owner loses everything.

 

That is similar to how the EvE looting works.  In EvE the insurance can mitigate some of the pain for the ship replacement, but a lot of times the modules are just as if not more expensive than the ship itself; and insurance doesn't cover any module cost.

It isn't exactly like DarkFall's full-loot , but it has the same effect for the person that dies... as they have lost everything they had on them.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16944

1/30/13 3:09:07 PM#40
Originally posted by xzyax
Originally posted by WarinQuinn

Age of Wushu has no pvp loot, little incentive to pvp, and is very theme parky.

I'd mention shadowbane but it's closed.

 

Lineage 2 also no pvp loot just random if you happened to be red at the time ;P

Can someone else confirm deny this about these 2 MMOs?  I was going to add Lineage 2, but after reading up on it again; I decided it wasn't quite in the same rule-set as DarkFall.

 

Lineage 2 is not full loot.

If you are a red player and have "x" amount of kills (6? 7?) then you have a chance to drop a random item; could be anything. In recent years they added that certain weapons couldn't drop but for the life of me I don't remember what the stipulations were.

ah here we go... they even raised the number of pk kills to obtain the drop penalty:

 

  • A character is Chaotic when that character’s Reputation level is negative.
  • A Chaotic character’s name appears in red.
  • Every PK a Chaotic character performs gains that character a negative Reputation point.
  • When hunting and completing quests, Chaotic characters do not gain XP or SP, but they do gain Reputation points. This is the only way Chaotic characters can gain Reputation points. When a character is no longer Chaotic (when that character’s Reputation level reaches zero), hunting and completing quests give XP and SP but not Reputation points.
  • If a Chaotic character dies, that character’s Reputation points are not affected.
  • If a Chaotic character has a PK count of 31 or higher, the character receives an item drop penalty. As part of this penalty, augmented weapons will drop without the augmentation.
  • When a Chaotic character dies, that character loses more XP than a non-Chaotic character does.
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