Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Randayn

there was no FFA loot on toons.  I've played this game a few times and really loved it (and im typically a care-bear pve only player) but didnt mind the pvp aspect of the game because most of the people I ran into in the game were fairly mature.

The only thing I didnt like or understand about the game was FFA looting....

Can there not be server where FFA looting is turned off?  I'd join in a heartbeat...

You and probably a million other people, but AV doesnt want you to play this game they dont want your money and the full loot pvpers dont want you to have access to the world of DF unless they can kill you in it.  So once again it will be niche game that with its relaunch will start big and quickly die down to a couple thousand players just like the original DF. 

And the problem is?  We still have OUR game, while you pout and stomp your feet.

Originally posted by Kshahdoo

 

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Originally posted by Badaboom

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Originally posted by Beacker

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Originally posted by Randayn there was no FFA loot on toons.  I've played this game a few times and really loved it (and im typically a care-bear pve only player) but didnt mind the pvp aspect of the game because most of the people I ran into in the game were fairly mature. The only thing I didnt like or understand about the game was FFA looting.... Can there not be server where FFA looting is turned off?  I'd join in a heartbeat...

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This is a game aimmed at the hardcore PVP crowd. This is not really meant for the PVE crowd. If your main thing is PVE you will be disappointed. It is nice to be able to play a PVP game where that is the primary focus and not an after thought from a PVE game making PVP 2ndary.

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Darkfall aimed to be a sandbox, not a PVP arena.  Hardcore PvP'rs embraced it and thus vocalized their concerns relating to that aspect.  It became very one dimensional which I don't believe was AV's intent. 

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Every sandbox game in a savagery setting must be full loot PvP, or it's not a sandbox.

I'm not really a proponent of doing away with FFA , full loot pvp.  Just adding more elements/sand to the box.

I know I asked for this on this post, but after spending about 10 hours in Darkfall, I understand why there is FFA loot and it makes sense.  I retract my statement and CAN'T WAIT for Unholy Wars!

Originally posted by Randayn
I know I asked for this on this post, but after spending about 10 hours in Darkfall, I understand why there is FFA loot and it makes sense.  I retract my statement and CAN'T WAIT for Unholy Wars!

 

It can be shocking at first when you die and come back to find you grave picked over, but with a little caution, some banking runs and a keeping a couplel sets of monster dropped gear in the bank things can work.

 

The weird things about a FFA loot system is it actually helps control the typical gear grind since running around in your fancy armor makes you a target.  Gear is viewed like a resource and you pick and chose what to wear and what to risk breaking or losing.

Originally posted by rutaq

Originally posted by Randayn
I know I asked for this on this post, but after spending about 10 hours in Darkfall, I understand why there is FFA loot and it makes sense.  I retract my statement and CAN'T WAIT for Unholy Wars!

 

It can be shocking at first when you die and come back to find you grave picked over, but with a little caution, some banking runs and a keeping a couplel sets of monster dropped gear in the bank things can work.

 

The weird things about a FFA loot system is it actually helps control the typical gear grind since running around in your fancy armor makes you a target.  Gear is viewed like a resource and you pick and chose what to wear and what to risk breaking or losing.

yeah, it really does add a very interesting twist to the game...you have to actually be responsible and organized.  It's alot of fun.  Everytime I get the chance, Im running back to my bank to store more stuff.  Usually carry bare bones gear and crafting tools on me...that's it.  And I have TONS of gear in the bank....it doesn't appear that will ever be a problem

Originally posted by Murdus

Originally posted by Tymoris

Originally posted by Murdus

The entire point of Darkfall was to cater to the crowd that enjoys playing a game with FFA loot.

As the first responder stated, it would break the balance if the game did not have it.

Darkfall is a game where you lose everything you have when you die if it isn't safe in your bank.

It is a game where you leave the safety of your city and risk everything you take with you.

It is a game where you must learn to accept this fate, as it is inevitable for everyone.

When you die in Darkfall, you are punished. 

The fear of death and loss is what makes this game fun for the playerbase.

You lose your gear when you die, but when you're whole clan is dead, you lose your town.

 

Loss is what drives this game. Stop making posts about taking it away, and start looking for a new game.

 

 

 

It is a game that ended up being just one zerg attacking another with no actual point or goal. The fear of losing anything had died long ago.

The point or goal was to kill your rivals and take their stuff and rub it in their face.

I don't see how you could say there's no goal. Everyone has a goal in their mind. Darkfall is a game where you make your own goal. That's all.

Of course on the surface and sometimes when you're in the middle of it all it seems to make sense to reduce it to "we're just zerging other clans."

You joined a game that literally sold thousands of copies on that very intention, to kill other clans, what would you expect?

Exactly the part in red.

Shortly after I started playing DF I became a member of a clan that was very good aligned and who's main purpose was to provide a safe haven for newer players and to be anti-griefers, along with the other clans in our alliance. We opened our alliance holdings to all who were peaceful within our walls, regardless of clan (or lack of one), in order to allow new players and vets to come together and provide a good learning environment and help building up their characters to a decent point., have a safe place to gather and bank resources, and very close proximity (like less than 1 minute run) to a dungeon that was perfect for farming and skilling up at low to mid levels. We would have duels and team PvP events constantly going being run by some very experienced players to help teach the new guys better tactics and reward them with some useful equipment along the way.

One of the clans in the alliance was purely newbies and had a rule where once you got your character up to a certain point in your skills, you were required to leave the clan and seek another. Some of these guys who were progressing around the same rank would wind up sticking together when moving to other clans, others who had disagreements would intentionally join opossing clans so they could constantly go after eachother.

As long as you remained peaceful inside our walls, everything was cool, but if you attacked anyone unprovoked we usually ended up going to war with that clan, or simply nailing all of their holdings and stealing their resources all day long for days or weeks. We had our share of griefers who knew we were sheltering newbies, and they attacked constantly hoping for kills against those newbies, but it resulted in lots of great fights. At the same time we also ended up picking up a lot of good guys who were previously griefers, just because its the common thing to do, and out of respect for what we were doing and a chance to fight lots of vets instead of ganking newbies, joined up with us to help repel their former clanmates & allies.

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Originally posted by Murdus

Originally posted by Tymoris

Originally posted by Murdus

The entire point of Darkfall was to cater to the crowd that enjoys playing a game with FFA loot.

As the first responder stated, it would break the balance if the game did not have it.

Darkfall is a game where you lose everything you have when you die if it isn't safe in your bank.

It is a game where you leave the safety of your city and risk everything you take with you.

It is a game where you must learn to accept this fate, as it is inevitable for everyone.

When you die in Darkfall, you are punished. 

The fear of death and loss is what makes this game fun for the playerbase.

You lose your gear when you die, but when you're whole clan is dead, you lose your town.

 

Loss is what drives this game. Stop making posts about taking it away, and start looking for a new game.

 

 

 

It is a game that ended up being just one zerg attacking another with no actual point or goal. The fear of losing anything had died long ago.

The point or goal was to kill your rivals and take their stuff and rub it in their face.

I don't see how you could say there's no goal. Everyone has a goal in their mind. Darkfall is a game where you make your own goal. That's all.

Of course on the surface and sometimes when you're in the middle of it all it seems to make sense to reduce it to "we're just zerging other clans."

You joined a game that literally sold thousands of copies on that very intention, to kill other clans, what would you expect?

Exactly the part in red.

Shortly after I started playing DF I became a member of a clan that was very good aligned and who's main purpose was to provide a safe haven for newer players and to be anti-griefers, along with the other clans in our alliance. We opened our alliance holdings to all who were peaceful within our walls, regardless of clan (or lack of one), in order to allow new players and vets to come together and provide a good learning environment and help building up their characters to a decent point., have a safe place to gather and bank resources, and very close proximity (like less than 1 minute run) to a dungeon that was perfect for farming and skilling up at low to mid levels. We would have duels and team PvP events constantly going being run by some very experienced players to help teach the new guys better tactics and reward them with some useful equipment along the way.

One of the clans in the alliance was purely newbies and had a rule where once you got your character up to a certain point in your skills, you were required to leave the clan and seek another. Some of these guys who were progressing around the same rank would wind up sticking together when moving to other clans, others who had disagreements would intentionally join opossing clans so they could constantly go after eachother.

As long as you remained peaceful inside our walls, everything was cool, but if you attacked anyone unprovoked we usually ended up going to war with that clan, or simply nailing all of their holdings and stealing their resources all day long for days or weeks. We had our share of griefers who knew we were sheltering newbies, and they attacked constantly hoping for kills against those newbies, but it resulted in lots of great fights. At the same time we also ended up picking up a lot of good guys who were previously griefers, just because its the common thing to do, and out of respect for what we were doing and a chance to fight lots of vets instead of ganking newbies, joined up with us to help repel their former clanmates & allies.

 

Yes I know about that clan, it was the EvE Online equivalent actually but I think it didn't end well? I don't mean it's a bad game or something, on the contrary if it wasn't for the hacks and the heavy grind I would still be playing, but it was not a sandbox as it was advertised. Unless your goal was clan warfare the game had very little else to offer.

That's what I didn't like about darkfall really to begin with. It was advertised as a sandbox ffa pvp with full loot. There weren't any sandbox, apart from occasionally killing someone creatively.

If they keep the clan warfare but expand on other activities too it would be a game that really can stand out. Otherwise you just have a medieval fps that you have to grind your skills.

ITT: People presuming things they nothing about ina game that wasnt designed with them in mind.

Originally posted by Randayn

there was no FFA loot on toons.  I've played this game a few times and really loved it (and im typically a care-bear pve only player) but didnt mind the pvp aspect of the game because most of the people I ran into in the game were fairly mature.

The only thing I didnt like or understand about the game was FFA looting....

Can there not be server where FFA looting is turned off?  I'd join in a heartbeat...

You really couldn't have Darfall without FFA loot.  The game is all about power in your holdings and the reason you need to be in the open world is simply to get matts for your gear to be made, make it so there is no FFA loot...and you'd never find people in the ow.  Even boss type mobs are all about the enchanting drops, etc. 

Originally posted by Tymoris

 

Yes I know about that clan, it was the EvE Online equivalent actually but I think it didn't end well? I don't mean it's a bad game or something, on the contrary if it wasn't for the hacks and the heavy grind I would still be playing, but it was not a sandbox as it was advertised. Unless your goal was clan warfare the game had very little else to offer.

That's what I didn't like about darkfall really to begin with. It was advertised as a sandbox ffa pvp with full loot. There weren't any sandbox, apart from occasionally killing someone creatively.

If they keep the clan warfare but expand on other activities too it would be a game that really can stand out. Otherwise you just have a medieval fps that you have to grind your skills.

Yeah I found the "sandbox" aspects lacking also. The only thing I found truly sandbox about it was your character building / skills. The world itself had pretty much nothing sandbox about it. The bases / holdings were all pre-determined and everything in them was static. You didnt have a choice of what to build and where, just wether or not to build it and in what order. Same with housing. You had no control over housing eexcept for which preset house you bought in which already existing village. You couldnt "build" anything. It sounds like theyre making at least a little bit of improvement to this with allowing more customization to the holdings

I hope it is much better than the 1st, though I feel unless they add a lot more sand into the sandbox its still going to be very similar. I so wish a company with good devs and some decent financial backing would combine Darkfall + Xsyon and/or Wurm. I mean hell, Wurm was quite impressive for its sandboxiness event hough the graphics and combat were lacking, and that game was made by 1 freaking guy. With AV having a larger staff and apparently more funds now I would think they would be capable of creating such a combination. Obviously not for the launch of DFUW, but perhaps later down the road if this game is succesful.

As for the ending with the clan we had going. Yeah we had a nice run and lots of fun for awhile. But shortly after I worked my way up to becoming one of our generals I grew bored with the game / tired of the exploiting, etc and left, which also meant several of my friends and my brother (all who were officers / generals as well) leaving around the same time,. So the entire thing kind of fell apart very quickly with losing a big chunk of its leadership.

Several of us will be back for UW though. I doubt we will get the old clan going though, or at least not with the same goals in mind as before.

Many other system mechanics within the game would need to be changed to support a PvE server, and would require a significant amount of work and balancing to do.  Wouldn't it kind of defeat the purpose of the whole game?

 

ANd for goodness sakes, it's not hard to figure out what the problem is with people killing each other all over the place.  No, it's not safe areas, althought, I think cities and such should be as close to safe as possible without being coded in as such.  While full loot pushes players to be a bit more opportunistic, is is not a major instigator by itself.  It's not that gamers in general like to kill for no reason, just because they can, even though they do.  Or any other reason you guys can come up with that isn't the problem, which I'm sure, is a lot more than I've listed because people don't have what is called, deductive reasoning.  

 

It seems to be an elusive ability for most, unfortunately.

 

The biggest problem is that when you combine all of those things, you create a very dangerous and unstable environment for the gamer.  And not restricting this via code is the biggest issue of them all.  I'm not saying to remove FFA PvP.  I'm saying, create legitimate consequences for killing people.  Ultima Online's system worked for years, before they went to Trammel of course.  There were no loop holes or exploits.  If you attacked an innocent, you were labeled a criminal, thus attackable by all without punity.  If you killed too often, you became a murderer for significant amount of time.  You were attackable by all, you were locked out of your bank, attack on site in all NPC cities and if death happened, you would take permenent stat loss.

 

Now I would take it a step further and lock out your character for a certain amount of time, based on the severity of your crimes of course.  However, the only way this mechanic would work is if AV allowed us to create multiple characters.  A decision that is baffling me to this day.  Multiple characters allows replayabilty.  But, clearly they went the themepark-carebear route (Which is odd for AV) and they are allowing free respecs (or role changes) at any time, on the fly.  

 

Anyways, the point is this.  If you place a large enough punishment onto players who murder others without a thought in their mind, you will effectively reduce their willingness to make the game play of others uncomfortable.  You'll go a long way in attracting new players and keeping existing players as well.  If you want to siege and fight in large battles, join a guild/clan and go to war with someone.  There is no reason that you can't cater to both styles of play, unless of course, the obvious happens.  AV is too blind to see the real problem

 

Also, fix your dumb combat system.  Stop forcing people in and out of multiple view perspectives.  It's not immersive and completely destroys the flow of combat.  Thanks.

FFA-pvp + full-loot is majorly part of the game, what you need to do is, get in the game with the mentality/mindset of "i will lose everything, but i can also get it back pretty quick" AND "never roll with what you can't afford to lose" and the word from the "ancients" (UO) - bank often -

Those 3 things in mind, this game will be a friggin thing to enjoy for the months to come!

 

Forget the WoW mentality, where your purplez are the "shiz to remember" because that is not what you will be remembered here.

 

Consider every item you have on your person a "consumable" (ps. bank often), it will either be taken by another player(s) or it will break tomorrow.

 

Thus we've another durable mind for Darkfall

 

ps. i was an "around" average pvper in DF back in the day (lost more duels/1v1's than i won), yet i had tons of "ready bags" and armor + weaponsets in my bank + a hefty sum of gold to boot and i had a blast.

To the OP:

I'm typically very positive in repesponding to people and I don't mean this in a mean way but...

There are already 20+ MMOs on the market to choose from that don't involve an FFA world with full loot and consequences.   It's been done a million times in the last 15 or so years.  FFA full loot is a specific market and it will NEVER appeal to the masses.  If you don't like the idea then the game is not for you.  

If you can't balance your desire to play and not being able to handle full loot, you can play the game and join a huge clan/alliance of players.  These large groups of players still exists in the game today and your risk of losing anything is very very small.  You'll never be good at the game and will always rely on others, but you won't lose much.

The essence of Darkfall is open world PvP and full loot.  It's the whole point of the game.  You wouldn't ask for someone to create a version of boxing where they remove the fighting.  If you remove it, there's nothing left.

Trust me you get used to the full loot after awhile.  And if you get good at the game, you'll gain more than you lose.

Originally posted by indef

To the OP:

I'm typically very positive in repesponding to people and I don't mean this in a mean way but...

There are already 20+ MMOs on the market to choose from that don't involve an FFA world with full loot and consequences.   It's been done a million times in the last 15 or so years.  FFA full loot is a specific market and it will NEVER appeal to the masses.  If you don't like the idea then the game is not for you.  

If you can't balance your desire to play and not being able to handle full loot, you can play the game and join a huge clan/alliance of players.  These large groups of players still exists in the game today and your risk of losing anything is very very small.  You'll never be good at the game and will always rely on others, but you won't lose much.

The essence of Darkfall is open world PvP and full loot.  It's the whole point of the game.  You wouldn't ask for someone to create a version of boxing where they remove the fighting.  If you remove it, there's nothing left.

Trust me you get used to the full loot after awhile.  And if you get good at the game, you'll gain more than you lose.

This

Originally posted by indef

Trust me you get used to the full loot after awhile.  And if you get good at the game, you'll gain more than you lose.

It's not even about "getting used to", you just need the right mentality :)

And ^ if you get good at game, kudos to you, you'll be having more loots than you bargained for!

 

ps. november 20th... now, so we can get a "delayed" message!!1!!

The joy of full loot games is simply lost on most people. If someone prevents them selves from playing DF:UW because they are scared of loosing some pixels then they are missing out on something truly exciting. Gold and armor comes and goes but your character and player skill is always improving.  And that can never be taken away from you.

 

 

Darkfall always made me laugh because I feel like it brought out everyones inner smegel from ?ord of the rings. Any time I found a rare resource or steedgrass i was like my preciousesses.... And i would scurry back to the bank to hoard it. Everytime I see someone bum rush the bak I get the feeling they are doing the same. Heart pounding and twitching making sure no pker is on my heels lol. New podcast... Darkfall horders. Lol.

Yeah it was definitely fun.   I remember my clan got into a war with a small clan named Fringe.  Basically, it was just two small groups of players who would kill each other whenever we saw each other inside a city or in the open world. 

 

Ultimately, it turned into everytime we needed to do tradeskills or gather we did them as a group.  Was very fun having one person tradeskill with 10 bodyguards incase of an attack.

full loot is the point of the game and it does a lot for it. it is not hard to get gear. i like that the people who wear the good gear are the people who are confident that they can use it. it means more that way. not only does it add value to a players life but it gives the game a deathmatch feel. removing full loot would be a buff to zerg clans in battles. yes it would help the outnumbered clan keep there stuff but the point of a game should be win the battle and if the bigger clan can just have people recklessly returning to battlefield then the smaller clan stands little to no hope.

Making a server that didn't have full loot could ruin the game because it splits the population. instead of learning to deal with the full loot system people would just roll on the one without it. they would easily get geared and a lot of them would probably get bored. 

the full loot system combined with making the player aim is what makes the game so good. alot of games have conditioned us to think that gear lead to skill/wins. it is opposite in darkfall, skill will lead to gear. not saying gear isn't important in darkfall but saying that practicing and dueling will do more for you then just grinding for gear.

 

I've heard it mentioned a few times already, but loot is very easy to acquire in this game. You die and you lose your stuff? So what!... you can get the stuff back again and again and again...  . farm, craft, kill other players, there are so many methods available to get stuff... 

Items in this game are designed to be expendable. If you look at it this way... sure when they kill you, they take your stuff, but they don't take your skill gains(which are what really matter). Over time, you will learn to bank often and have many copies(sets) of armor,weapons, etc, ready to go right after you die.

What I love about Darkfall is that gear does not define the player... the player defines the player. People will respect YOU and not your gear.

I've seen plenty of half naked players with starter weapons kill others fully geared simply because they lacked skill. 

 - On a side note, maybe AV could allow players to insure gear at a costly price. This might help skeptics of a full loot FFA system from judging prematurely and play long enough to know what they are missing. However, I would not be a fan of this system ether, but I'm willing to compromise a bit.