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Aventurine SA | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/16/13)  | Pub:Aventurine SA
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download | Retail Price:$14.95 | Pay Type:Subscription
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Darkfall: Unholy Wars Forum » General Discussion » Do not buy this game [mod edit]

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32 posts found
  Caaahl

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 241

 
OP  11/02/13 5:04:57 AM#1

Good day.

I played the original Darkfall Online from closed beta on as well as Darkfall Unholy Wars and had 2 accounts until recently.

In total i played DF and DFUW for over 4 years and paid well over a thousand Euros in subscriptions fees during this time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to use this thread to advise against buying Darkfall Unholy Wars (DFUW).

To prevent a wall of text i will stick to a simple list:

 

  • Aventurine (AV), the developer of DFUW, has been lying about the state of the game since before the launch of it. And they keep on lying with unrealistic content update plans and announcements.
 
  • Shortly before preorders were made available Tasos (cofounder and Vice President of Aventurine SA) gave an interview and listed many features and content that would be in the game at release or shortly after. Most of this content is still missing and we are 12 months after beta started and 7 months after the game was released.
 
  • AV decided to do a beta instead of the release on the release day back in December 2012. People who preordered the game would get access to the beta.
 
  • People who were familiar with the original Darkfall Online realized quite fast that DFUW has a lot less features than the original game. *
 
  • We are now in the seventh month after official release and the paying customers are still waiting for a lot of content that already existed in the original Darkfall Online.*
 
  • The game DFUW and the company Aventurine is dying. AV has moved out of their shiny building a couple of weeks ago. On their website they dont mention it but Tasos himself did in a little update side note.
 
  • AV cannot pay their developers anymore to full extend. This was stated by an AV employee (Claus Grovdal) when he had "an unfortunate human moment" during a live stream, as AV put it.
 
  • Claus Grovdal also said that DFUW has not enough subscribers to provide AV with any profit.
 
  • The performance of the game servers are getting worse and worse (ping spikes etc.). Given the financial situation the best guess here is that AV is reducing server performance more and more to save costs.
 
  • DFUW is an unfinished product and AV doesn not have the ressources to provide the missing content before the game/company dies.

 

There are many more things one could list, but these are the most important ones, i could think of.

If anyone of you want to share your experience with this company and why one should not buy their products, feel free to contribute to this thread.

Companies like Aventurine and especially the heads of the company should not be able to keep going on and on with their fraud business concept. Therefore i hope to prevent people from throwing their money into the trash bin AV is.

There are many commited indie game developers out there who could  and will use your money a lot better.

 

*Content / features missing from original DF (probably incomplete list):

  • Enchanting
  • Jewelry
  • Specific loot drops and skins for specific mobs in connection with enchantment crafting
  • Different mounts (regular ones, more speed - less hp, more health - more crafting costs)
  • Trade routes
  • Events with roaming gm controlled hordes of mobs
  • Clan Bank logs
  • Siege Equipment (warhulks, cannons)
  • Counter-siege equipment (cannons, flame throwers and alike on city walls)
  • Server wide events
  • Daily dungeon quests
  • A working chat gui
  • Barber shop npcs to change your look
  • Ingame pvp statistics and Rankings
  • Quest series with lore
  • Capital cities for every race (alfar lands and especially mirdain lands are still unfinished; there are blank like flat spaces where the mirdain capital used to be in DF1 etc)
  • City wonders for player holdings

 

PS: There was a "Aventurine mini documentation" which was already produced and planned to be aired in greece and one could watch it online; but i cannot find it anywhere anymore. During one of the interviews in this doc one of the AV founders explained how they lied to the banks in order to get money. He explained with a smile that they had to do it that way. Gives you an idea of the mindset at Aventurine.

If anyone still has a working link to that mini doc i would highly appreciate it if you could share it here with us.

Caaahl / DAA KAPUTTMACHAA ---DF/DFUW

  kinghussien

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/07
Posts: 43

11/02/13 5:17:10 AM#2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU25YJ9iLpw

 

Is this what your looking for?

  xpiher

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3304

11/02/13 5:22:36 AM#3

I wouldn't call that fraud. Don't get me wrong, AV fucked up bad but fraud would have to be more than that. There isn't even less content in the game than ther was in DFO. Sorry, but warhulks aren't content and the dungons that were in DFO were nothing more than portals to mobs that you could fight else where int the world albeit cool. The 3 dungeons that are in game now are way better than the 30 or so that were in DFO on their own. 

And if you want to talk about running a game without profits look at MO. They are still releasing new content. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Caaahl

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 241

 
OP  11/02/13 5:27:35 AM#4
Originally posted by kinghussien

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU25YJ9iLpw

 

Is this what your looking for?

Yeah, nice, thank you.

(why the hell didnt it come up when i did a search for thisexact video title!? ^^)

When Tasos talks about how he made "lengthy elaborations" that could have been easily summarized "in two words" for the bankers.. i cant help but hinking about every news update he made in the past.

Caaahl / DAA KAPUTTMACHAA ---DF/DFUW

  -Zeno-

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/05
Posts: 1301

11/02/13 5:34:46 AM#5
Saying AV is fraud because they may be haivng issues with the game is like saying EA is fraud because they are shutting down WAR.

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  Caaahl

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 241

 
OP  11/02/13 5:40:22 AM#6
Originally posted by xpiher

I wouldn't call that fraud. Don't get me wrong, AV fucked up bad but fraud would have to be more than that. There isn't even less content in the game than ther was in DFO. Sorry, but warhulks aren't content and the dungons that were in DFO were nothing more than portals to mobs that you could fight else where int the world albeit cool. The 3 dungeons that are in game now are way better than the 30 or so that were in DFO on their own. 

And if you want to talk about running a game without profits look at MO. They are still releasing new content. 

Xpiher, you admit there is stuff missing but you just dont want to identify it as "content", which is kind of biased.

Conent/features missing from original DF (probably incomplete list):

  • Enchanting
  • Jewelry
  • Specific loot drops and skins for specific mobs in connection with enchantment crafting
  • Different mounts (regular ones, more speed - less hp, more health - more crafting costs)
  • Trade routes
  • Events with roaming gm controlled hordes of mobs
  • Clan Bank logs
  • Siege Equipment (warhulks, cannons)
  • Counter-siege equipment (cannons, flame throwers and alike on city walls)
  • Server wide events
  • Daily dungeon quests
  • A working chat gui
  • Barber shop npcs to change your look
  • Ingame pvp statistics and Rankings
  • Quest series with lore
  • Capital cities for every race (alfar lands and especially mirdain lands are still unfinished; there are blank like flat spaces where there the mirdain capital used to be in DF1 etc)
  • City wonders for player holdings

 

And so on; i forgot to mention a few i guess.

Caaahl / DAA KAPUTTMACHAA ---DF/DFUW

  Caaahl

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 241

 
OP  11/02/13 5:41:50 AM#7
Originally posted by -Zeno-
Saying AV is fraud because they may be haivng issues with the game is like saying EA is fraud because they are shutting down WAR.

Thats why i didnt say this.

I say it's fraud because of the lies and i provided a list pointing out why not to buy the game in the opening post.

Read it again maybe.

Caaahl / DAA KAPUTTMACHAA ---DF/DFUW

  xpiher

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3304

11/02/13 7:16:34 AM#8
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by xpiher

I wouldn't call that fraud. Don't get me wrong, AV fucked up bad but fraud would have to be more than that. There isn't even less content in the game than ther was in DFO. Sorry, but warhulks aren't content and the dungons that were in DFO were nothing more than portals to mobs that you could fight else where int the world albeit cool. The 3 dungeons that are in game now are way better than the 30 or so that were in DFO on their own. 

And if you want to talk about running a game without profits look at MO. They are still releasing new content. 

Xpiher, you admit there is stuff missing but you just dont want to identify it as "content", which is kind of biased.

Conent/features missing from original DF (probably incomplete list):

  • Enchanting
  • Jewelry
  • Not content
  • Specific loot drops and skins for specific mobs in connection with enchantment crafting
  • Not content
  • Different mounts (regular ones, more speed - less hp, more health - more crafting costs
  • Not content 
  • Trade routes
  • Events with roaming gm controlled hordes of mobs
  • This happened very late in DFO's life cycle, but just because it didn't happen yet doesn't mean it isn't going to
  • Clan Bank logs
  • Not content 
  • Siege Equipment (warhulks, cannons)
  • Not Content
  • Counter-siege equipment (cannons, flame throwers and alike on city walls)
  • Not content
  • Server wide events
  • You've mentioned this already with GM events.
  • Daily dungeon quests
  • Do you really consider dailies to be cotemt?
  • A working chat gui
  • The chat does work, its not better or worse than DFOs. The new GUI will be better than both.
  • Barber shop npcs to change your look
  • Not content 
  • Ingame pvp statistics and Rankings
  • Not content and didn't work well in DFO to begin with
  • Quest series with lore
  • Capital cities for every race (alfar lands and especially mirdain lands are still unfinished; there are blank like flat spaces where there the mirdain capital used to be in DF1 etc)
  • Not content 
  • City wonders for player holdings
  • Not content with the way they worked in DFO

 

And so on; i forgot to mention a few i guess.

Half your list isn't what most people consider content. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  MrBoots

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/07/03
Posts: 285

11/02/13 7:20:03 AM#9
Good summary. Maybe we can stop some people before they waste money on this ripoff.
  Galadourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1058

11/02/13 7:20:25 AM#10
there are many reasons why one should not try DFUW; fraud is not one of them though.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  Caaahl

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 241

 
OP  11/02/13 8:05:26 AM#11
Originally posted by Galadourn
there are many reasons why one should not try DFUW; fraud is not one of them though.

Yeah, consider it an eye catching term in the thread title to get peoples attention.

But the facts i listed remain true, whether one calls it "fraud" or something else. 

Caaahl / DAA KAPUTTMACHAA ---DF/DFUW

  xpiher

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3304

11/02/13 8:11:06 AM#12
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by Galadourn
there are many reasons why one should not try DFUW; fraud is not one of them though.

Yeah, consider it an eye catching term in the thread title to get peoples attention.

But the facts i listed remain true, whether one calls it "fraud" or something else. 

All that matters with a game is if the game is fun or not. Dev communication doesn't make the game better.


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Caaahl

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 241

 
OP  11/02/13 8:19:15 AM#13
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by Galadourn
there are many reasons why one should not try DFUW; fraud is not one of them though.

Yeah, consider it an eye catching term in the thread title to get peoples attention.

But the facts i listed remain true, whether one calls it "fraud" or something else. 

All that matters with a game is if the game is fun or not. Dev communication doesn't make the game better.

I'd love to live happily in your black/white world, but it's not that easy.

When the game is lacking and therefore not fun but you get told lies on a regular basis to make you believe the game will become fun so you stay subbed, then Dev communication matters a lot.

If you consider buying a game and you see content update plans posted by the devs suggesting that there will be content updates every couple of weeks... then Dev communication matters a lot.

PS: You think it's been coincidence that most promising (and mostly false) updates so far where always posted in the week of the month when most of the subs would run out? 

Caaahl / DAA KAPUTTMACHAA ---DF/DFUW

  xpiher

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3304

11/02/13 8:22:59 AM#14
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by Galadourn
there are many reasons why one should not try DFUW; fraud is not one of them though.

Yeah, consider it an eye catching term in the thread title to get peoples attention.

But the facts i listed remain true, whether one calls it "fraud" or something else. 

All that matters with a game is if the game is fun or not. Dev communication doesn't make the game better.

I'd love to live happily in your black/white world, but it's not that easy.

When the game is lacking and therefore not fun but you get told lies on a regular basis to make you believe the game will become fun so you stay subbed, then Dev communication matters a lot.

If you consider buying a game and you see content update plans posted by the devs suggesting that there will be content updates every couple of weeks... then Dev communication matters a lot.

Fun is subjective. If its not fun, unsub. No one listens to indy developers plans for the game because they are on such a thin shoe string budget that it could change with 1 person leaving the company. Its why people give money to devs through kick starter and get burned ALL THE TIME. This has been my stance since DFO launch and the devs talked even LESS about future plans then. 

Don't worry, MVP forums will produce leaks on whats actually going on.

PS: Obviously even AAA games can have change of plans as well. Look at GW2 and the introduction of Acsended gear. Something ANET said they would never do for nearly 10years.


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19484

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/02/13 10:32:29 AM#15
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by xpiher

I wouldn't call that fraud. Don't get me wrong, AV fucked up bad but fraud would have to be more than that. There isn't even less content in the game than ther was in DFO. Sorry, but warhulks aren't content and the dungons that were in DFO were nothing more than portals to mobs that you could fight else where int the world albeit cool. The 3 dungeons that are in game now are way better than the 30 or so that were in DFO on their own. 

And if you want to talk about running a game without profits look at MO. They are still releasing new content. 

Xpiher, you admit there is stuff missing but you just dont want to identify it as "content", which is kind of biased.

Conent/features missing from original DF (probably incomplete list):

  • Enchanting
  • Jewelry
  • Not content
  • Specific loot drops and skins for specific mobs in connection with enchantment crafting
  • Not content
  • Different mounts (regular ones, more speed - less hp, more health - more crafting costs
  • Not content 
  • Trade routes
  • Events with roaming gm controlled hordes of mobs
  • This happened very late in DFO's life cycle, but just because it didn't happen yet doesn't mean it isn't going to
  • Clan Bank logs
  • Not content 
  • Siege Equipment (warhulks, cannons)
  • Not Content
  • Counter-siege equipment (cannons, flame throwers and alike on city walls)
  • Not content
  • Server wide events
  • You've mentioned this already with GM events.
  • Daily dungeon quests
  • Do you really consider dailies to be cotemt?
  • A working chat gui
  • The chat does work, its not better or worse than DFOs. The new GUI will be better than both.
  • Barber shop npcs to change your look
  • Not content 
  • Ingame pvp statistics and Rankings
  • Not content and didn't work well in DFO to begin with
  • Quest series with lore
  • Capital cities for every race (alfar lands and especially mirdain lands are still unfinished; there are blank like flat spaces where there the mirdain capital used to be in DF1 etc)
  • Not content 
  • City wonders for player holdings
  • Not content with the way they worked in DFO

And so on; i forgot to mention a few i guess.

Half your list isn't what most people consider content. 

Er, maybe you don't consider those Items as content, but I certainly do.

Maybe you need to look up the definition of the word?  One common one is "everything that is inside a container", in this case the container is the game world, so yes, all of those items are content.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

11/02/13 11:26:20 AM#16
Originally posted by Caaahl

Good day.

I played the original Darkfall Online from closed beta on as well as Darkfall Unholy Wars and had 2 accounts until recently.

In total i played DF and DFUW for over 4 years and paid well over a thousand Euros in subscriptions fees during this time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to use this thread to advise against buying Darkfall Unholy Wars (DFUW).

To prevent a wall of text i will stick to a simple list:

 

  • Aventurine (AV), the developer of DFUW, has been lying about the state of the game since before the launch of it. And they keep on lying with unrealistic content update plans and announcements.
 
  • Shortly before preorders were made available Tasos (cofounder and Vice President of Aventurine SA) gave an interview and listed many features and content that would be in the game at release or shortly after. Most of this content is still missing and we are 12 months after beta started and 7 months after the game was released.
 
  • AV decided to do a beta instead of the release on the release day back in December 2012. People who preordered the game would get access to the beta.
 
  • People who were familiar with the original Darkfall Online realized quite fast that DFUW has a lot less features than the original game. *
 
  • We are now in the seventh month after official release and the paying customers are still waiting for a lot of content that already existed in the original Darkfall Online.*
 
  • The game DFUW and the company Aventurine is dying. AV has moved out of their shiny building a couple of weeks ago. On their website they dont mention it but Tasos himself did in a little update side note.
 
  • AV cannot pay their developers anymore to full extend. This was stated by an AV employee (Claus Grovdal) when he had "an unfortunate human moment" during a live stream, as AV put it.
 
  • Claus Grovdal also said that DFUW has not enough subscribers to provide AV with any profit.
 
  • The performance of the game servers are getting worse and worse (ping spikes etc.). Given the financial situation the best guess here is that AV is reducing server performance more and more to save costs.
 
  • DFUW is an unfinished product and AV doesn not have the ressources to provide the missing content before the game/company dies.

 

There are many more things one could list, but these are the most important ones, i could think of.

If anyone of you want to share your experience with this company and why one should not buy their products, feel free to contribute to this thread.

Companies like Aventurine and especially the heads of the company should not be able to keep going on and on with their fraud business concept. Therefore i hope to prevent people from throwing their money into the trash bin AV is.

There are many commited indie game developers out there who could  and will use your money a lot better.

 

*Content / features missing from original DF (probably incomplete list):

  • Enchanting
  • Jewelry
  • Specific loot drops and skins for specific mobs in connection with enchantment crafting
  • Different mounts (regular ones, more speed - less hp, more health - more crafting costs)
  • Trade routes
  • Events with roaming gm controlled hordes of mobs
  • Clan Bank logs
  • Siege Equipment (warhulks, cannons)
  • Counter-siege equipment (cannons, flame throwers and alike on city walls)
  • Server wide events
  • Daily dungeon quests
  • A working chat gui
  • Barber shop npcs to change your look
  • Ingame pvp statistics and Rankings
  • Quest series with lore
  • Capital cities for every race (alfar lands and especially mirdain lands are still unfinished; there are blank like flat spaces where the mirdain capital used to be in DF1 etc)
  • City wonders for player holdings

 

PS: There was a "Aventurine mini documentation" which was already produced and planned to be aired in greece and one could watch it online; but i cannot find it anywhere anymore. During one of the interviews in this doc one of the AV founders explained how they lied to the banks in order to get money. He explained with a smile that they had to do it that way. Gives you an idea of the mindset at Aventurine.

If anyone still has a working link to that mini doc i would highly appreciate it if you could share it here with us.

Nice post

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2417

11/02/13 12:46:28 PM#17
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by Galadourn
there are many reasons why one should not try DFUW; fraud is not one of them though.

Yeah, consider it an eye catching term in the thread title to get peoples attention.

But the facts i listed remain true, whether one calls it "fraud" or something else. 

Such a thing might be typically known as a bait. I've edited the title.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  Caaahl

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 241

 
OP  11/02/13 2:12:35 PM#18
Originally posted by Amana
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by Galadourn
there are many reasons why one should not try DFUW; fraud is not one of them though.

Yeah, consider it an eye catching term in the thread title to get peoples attention.

But the facts i listed remain true, whether one calls it "fraud" or something else. 

Such a thing might be typically known as a bait. I've edited the title.

That is totally fine by me. :)

Thanks for not closing the thread.

Caaahl / DAA KAPUTTMACHAA ---DF/DFUW

  stux

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 469

11/02/13 4:38:33 PM#19
Originally posted by xpiher

I wouldn't call that fraud. Don't get me wrong, AV fucked up bad but fraud would have to be more than that. There isn't even less content in the game than ther was in DFO. Sorry, but warhulks aren't content and the dungons that were in DFO were nothing more than portals to mobs that you could fight else where int the world albeit cool. The 3 dungeons that are in game now are way better than the 30 or so that were in DFO on their own. 

And if you want to talk about running a game without profits look at MO. They are still releasing new content. 

AV should just hire this guy for Forum plugging.  That is all he does anyway.

 

Just don't take any advice about the game from him rofl.

  stux

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 469

11/02/13 4:40:20 PM#20
Originally posted by Amana
Originally posted by Caaahl
Originally posted by Galadourn
there are many reasons why one should not try DFUW; fraud is not one of them though.

Yeah, consider it an eye catching term in the thread title to get peoples attention.

But the facts i listed remain true, whether one calls it "fraud" or something else. 

Such a thing might be typically known as a bait. I've edited the title.

Its pretty border line.  But so many other game's developers have done the same thing.  EA has done it many times in Madden year in and year out.  Flat lies.

 

How much of it is lying and how much is failed intent?  No one really knows.

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