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Darkfall: Unholy Wars Forum » General Discussion » DF dodges macro question - macroing is in

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72 posts found
  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  1/20/13 3:41:36 AM#61
 

Ultimately, there is macro'ing in every single game out there.  Whether it's a simple key macro or an elaborate macro script that performs the actions of what you would see in a bot, it is always going to be present in the game.  People are just lazy, or really smart.. depending on how you look at it.

It's total shit game design.   There does NOT have to be macroing.

Once again the solution to the majority of current macroing in game:  DIMINISHING RETURNS.

If I hit X target for more than Y time my skill gains decrease to zero over time (you can set those variables any number of ways).  This completely eliminates macroing against players.  This completely eliminates macroing against mounts.  This completely eliminates macroing against bugged mobs.  Right there that solves the vast majority of macro issues.

Then you have to address self-cast macroing.  Stat-gain should not happen once a spell or skill is past 100 (This is why we see people macroing in safe zones still, even though they have their transfers/role skills maxed).  You could also limit gain-per-day on self casts, which greatly reduces the amount of self-cast macroing that is possible.

Just becuse there are a lot of bad games out there doesn't mean that there aren't solutions.  Tasos and company are just too stupid to grasp good game design, like you.

  Lahuzer

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 680

Sit on my face and tell me that you love me...

1/20/13 4:19:09 AM#62
This whole macroing crap is why I long for Pathfinder Online and also think Age of Wushu/Wulin does it right. No macro in the world helps you there. You have to play the game to get max outa experience points in Wushu/Wulin. I love it. I hate that since DF is a competative PVP game, if you wanna compete with the top players, you will have to macro to keep up. It sure is a shitty desgin, and I still hope AV can fix it b4 launch, but I highly doubt it.
  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

1/20/13 4:37:02 AM#63
Originally posted by SirFubar
Originally posted by Panossian

Macro'ing is something that's going to happen in any sandbox/skill based game, it's been around long before DF.

What?? Macroing is one of the worst thing you can put in a skill based game. It takes out a huge part of skill from any game. It's just there to dumb down the game so that noob players who can't press multiple keys fast can now do it the easy way. If DFUW have any kind of macro, I surely won't be playing the game.

Two part fail here.

First, they are not talking about macro's built into the game, but macroing using third party software to "bot" your character while your away from the keyboard.  All macros that are built into games have limits that prevent them from being used AFK.  In the first iterration of DF, you got a third party program or a fancy keyboard and used it to have your charater cast endless spells or swing your weapon while you were off taking a nap, this was to level up the skills even when you were not at the keyboard.

Second, the kind of macro you are talking about do not always dumb down the game.  There are many ways macros save effort and time without giving an advantage.  I used macro's alot in WoW, but only to bind multiple spells to fewer buttons.  So number 1 would be spell A, Shift 1 would be spell B, ctrl 1 would be spell C.  I also would make some keys target dependent.  Target an enemy then its my damage spell, target a friend then its a heal.  If you think this dumbs down the game, then I am sorry I don't have super human hands and can have the insane number of skills most MMO's have bound to every single key on my keyboard, or as you probably do, just move your mouse all over the screen hittig the 300 skill buttons.  In Rift however, I only use macros to change my role and gear with one button press, rather then having to do it in two. Its a time saver.  Rift makes it far easier to bind the keys the way I want.

Now want I DONT agree with is chain casting using a single macro.  That IS lazy.  Binding 6 skills to cast one after the other  just by pressing a single key IS dumbing down the game (and the players, as they lose all ability to be reactive, and change tactics on the fly).  Also what makes macros pathetic are addons like healbot in wow. Now THAT makes you a stupid pathetic loser healer.  I could out heal 99% of players using healbot with my custom macros(again to condense my many healing spells from 15 keys to 5 keys with modifiers). Yes sure my fingers might get a little cramped from all the shift and ctr and alt keys I am pressing but I can react to any situation...and when a new patch broke the healbot addon, I did not suck until they fixed it.

 

Other uses of addons, are announcmens when you cast a certain spell or taunt, letting the raid know something important, like you just tauned the boss off the other tank, and they should be prepared to heal you.

 

In DFUW's case, the macroing issue IS about lazyness and pathetic people that will use any cheap means possible to be successful with zero effort.  Its the American way.

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

1/20/13 5:04:11 AM#64
wouldnt lock time progression solve the problem *hides*
  Twitchn

Novice Member

Joined: 9/29/10
Posts: 33

1/20/13 5:22:17 AM#65
Just put in the eve or perpetuum type skill system and everything will be solved.
  Exzyz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/09/12
Posts: 52

1/20/13 5:36:18 AM#66

Eve and Perpeetum skillgain is not that great either. It is hard for newcomers to get into the game because some people sit on     

tons of skillpoint and can use the high tier ships. 

Banning macroers is the way to go tbh and make it so you dont get anything from hitting otherplayers.

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1640

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

1/20/13 8:54:44 AM#67
Besides dumbing the game down, and shrinking the map I don't know what the difference between this and DF1. It should be called DF NGE. Macros are still very real. The elitists still macro 24/7, and will soon be untouchable by new players. While the class system may have reduced the gap between vets and new players it has gone form a Marianas trench type gap to a Grand Canyon. I will say that at this point early on the game feels much more competitive, but I feel that after a couple of months we will be basically back where we were. THe AFK Macro douchebags will ruin the game again and everyone will quit.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  Realbigdeal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1648

1/20/13 12:49:11 PM#68
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Besides dumbing the game down, and shrinking the map I don't know what the difference between this and DF1. It should be called DF NGE. Macros are still very real. The elitists still macro 24/7, and will soon be untouchable by new players. While the class system may have reduced the gap between vets and new players it has gone form a Marianas trench type gap to a Grand Canyon. I will say that at this point early on the game feels much more competitive, but I feel that after a couple of months we will be basically back where we were. THe AFK Macro douchebags will ruin the game again and everyone will quit.

Back in DF1 macro's never killed the game. Its the gap that killed it. It took from 6 to 2 years to max out a character. In DF UW, You can max out your playstyle so fast that the only things that will really matter is the gear grind, economy and conquest.

There's no grind in DF UW. Only thing macroers will ruin is their own playtrough.

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  Hotjazz

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/13/08
Posts: 752

1/21/13 8:32:18 PM#69
Originally posted by Lahuzer
 I hate that since DF is a competative PVP game, if you wanna compete with the top players, you will have to macro to keep up. It sure is a shitty desgin, and I still hope AV can fix it b4 launch, but I highly doubt it.

Yes it is a shitty design to have a huge grind in a full-loot mmo.

We have to grind thousands of NPCs or macro just to take part in the fun parts of DFUW. I grinded tens of thousands boring NPCs in DF1, but I wont be doing that shit again in DFUW. I`m not a fan of macroing either, but it`s far better than killing NPCs.

I`m an avid defender of full-loot pvp mmos, and I loved the pvp, conquest and politics in DF1. Sadly I can`t bring myself to do a huge grind again, and most likely I will close my three accounts and find another game to play.

 

When half the post on forumfall is about macroing and grind, then something is rotten in the kingdom of Agon.

  osmunda

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 1127

1/24/13 7:59:19 AM#70
Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Back in DF1 macro's never killed the game. Its the gap that killed it. It took from 6 to 2 years to max out a character. In DF UW, You can max out your playstyle so fast that the only things that will really matter is the gear grind, economy and conquest.

There's no grind in DF UW. Only thing macroers will ruin is their own playtrough.

And that gap came about because the game had a long skill/stat progression. The people willing to macro through the grind got to the other side of that skill gap, leaving everyone else behind.

Shortening the skill progression certainly could lessen this gap, but it runs the risk of decreasing peoples sense of investment in their character. Do that too much and characters become throw away, loot becomes more important that character skill and the game turns into a MMOFPS.

Macroing and botting can't be eliminated, but developers can at least try to make it hard to do effectively.

  MMO_Fan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/07
Posts: 167

2/02/13 7:05:27 AM#71
Originally posted by osmunda
...

Macroing and botting can't be eliminated, but developers can at least try to make it hard to do effectively.

Not these. They ENCOURAGE macroing as a band-aid for their terrible UI and clunky combat system.

 

On launch, if you maco your skills you will max out in a 20-30 solid hours or so.

If you do not macro you will be very low on the food chain on Day 2.

  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  2/02/13 10:19:57 AM#72
Originally posted by MMO_Fan
Originally posted by osmunda
...

Macroing and botting can't be eliminated, but developers can at least try to make it hard to do effectively.

Not these. They ENCOURAGE macroing as a band-aid for their terrible UI and clunky combat system.

 

On launch, if you maco your skills you will max out in a 20-30 solid hours or so.

If you do not macro you will be very low on the food chain on Day 2.

Naw it's a bit more than this.  I've macroed quite a bit more than 30 hours.  Str and Dex are the easiest...  Wisdom is OK, but Int is a really tough macro right now.  They really hate mages.

 

 

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