Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Seronys

I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.

 

No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.

 

If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part),  massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7-Gq2UTtWY perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.

In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.

 

Now back on topic.  Cute post bro.  That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become.  It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you.  You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in.  I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.

 

But go ahead.  Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong.  While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market.  Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI.  Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money.  Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions.  Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong.  Everything is rainbows and butterflies!

 

It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.  

 

(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)

I will agree with you on the admins here...its stupid how they  love the carebears and you get warnings for the stupidist stuff...

 

Originally posted by Falesh

Darkfall may not be the perfect sandbox but imposing themepark restrictions like safe zones, PvE servers, limiting full loot, etc will only make it less of a sandbox. Yes Darkfall could attract more players by turning into something it was not designed to be but what is the point of that? There are plenty of PvE/consensual PvP games out there so why change games that try to do something different into something that is already abundant?

You need none of that to attract more people.  Most sandbox fans, and there are a ton who don't play DF, do not want those changes.

 

Try this.  

 

- Less restrictive player housing and customizing

- Skill Cap with all crafting professions being a viable form of advancement

- Safer cities and safer ways to trade wares

- 3rd person perspective support and development for all types of combat

- The removal of bunny hopping, launch spells, macros and scripted spells and abilities (Making it less auto-pilot)

- Books, musical instruments, mini-games, etc.  (more sandbox fluff that is non-PvP)

- Multiple character slots (Why is your Sandbox game allowing free class changes on the fly?)  

- Harsher penalty for being a murderer (You can still PvP at high levels without killing young players with no reason)

 

Those are just a few things.  None of them will undermine the core of the game.  It will just add more options for people who are less interested in PvP, which is a good thing.  The only thing to remotely affect PvP is the removal of bunny hopping and such.  But, if you are actually in favor of an exploit that is frowned upon in literally every multiplayer game ever made, then I guess I can't argue with you.  

 

There, I gave examples.  What do the supporters have to say?

 

Originally posted by afhn2110

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Seronys

I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.

 

No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.

 

If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part),  massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7-Gq2UTtWY perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.

In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.

 

Now back on topic.  Cute post bro.  That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become.  It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you.  You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in.  I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.

 

But go ahead.  Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong.  While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market.  Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI.  Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money.  Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions.  Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong.  Everything is rainbows and butterflies!

 

It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.  

 

(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)

I will agree with you on the admins here...its stupid how they  love the carebears and you get warnings for the stupidist stuff...

 

It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO.  And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem.  They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays.  So they don't have the success to draw from.  All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.  

 

For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch.  Yet they still call it a sandbox.  I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.  

 

It's a shame.  I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.  

Oh, and I'll likely be back in 24 hours or so, after my temporary ban has been lifted.  

It would be a more enjoyable concept if individuals could pioneer the landscape, form villages and towns of their own, elect officals of that town and form player militias to defend them. From my understanding though ( and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) you can only form cities if you belong to a clan. I've never personally cared for clans because the players themselves have no control over who makes the decisions and usually ends up with only a few top clans running the whole game.

Originally posted by DAS1337

 

It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO.  And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem.  They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays.  So they don't have the success to draw from.  All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.  

 

For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch.  Yet they still call it a sandbox.  I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.  

 

It's a shame.  I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.  

This is exactly spot on. For players who've never really played sandbox games, DarkFall is a great sandbox. But for anyone who has played many sandboxes, DarkFall clearly falls short.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by DAS1337

 

It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO.  And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem.  They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays.  So they don't have the success to draw from.  All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.  

 

For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch.  Yet they still call it a sandbox.  I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.  

 

It's a shame.  I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.  

This is exactly spot on. For players who've never really played sandbox games, DarkFall is a great sandbox. But for anyone who has played many sandboxes, DarkFall clearly falls short.

 

Darkfall may not be perfect but it is still a sandbox game. The fact is noone else is making a game like it so we should give props to them for what they have acheived and encourage them with feedback and ideas on how to improve the game.

Originally posted by Falesh

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by DAS1337

 

It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO.  And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem.  They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays.  So they don't have the success to draw from.  All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.  

 

For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch.  Yet they still call it a sandbox.  I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.  

 

It's a shame.  I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.  

This is exactly spot on. For players who've never really played sandbox games, DarkFall is a great sandbox. But for anyone who has played many sandboxes, DarkFall clearly falls short.

 

Darkfall may not be perfect but it is still a sandbox game. The fact is noone else is making a game like it so we should give props to them for what they have acheived and encourage them with feedback and ideas on how to improve the game.

Here's some feedback: Don't launch the game with a bunch of broken stuff and exploitable game mechanics. And actually punish the botters, and other people that exploit the broken mechanics for months, unlike the last launch.

With a full loot, PvP centric game, the devs must ensure the playing field is very level.

And last time, with the launch of DF and for many months after, it wasn't. And they didn't, and didn't care.

Why do you think so many people quit? Not because it was "too hardcore" and "they were carebears", it is that AV was unwilling or unable to keep a lid on the hacks/exploits and couldn't/wouldn't/didn't fix the exploitable mechanics like the Bloodwall and the "swimmers" and all the other people that botted their way to skills in the early days. Or punish those that did. Or just plain fix things that were broken.

I like sandbox games, but I like well made, non-exploitable games more.

When AV demonstrates it can put out the second, and as well as the first, they might get my money.

But until then, and based on their first release of DF which was a mess, they won't.

 

Originally posted by Kyleran

First point of order.  A MMO can be a sandbox without FFA Full Loot PVP.

EVE is a sandbox style game, and it has a very elaborate set of rules in place to enable players to control their level of risk hence some folks favor its design. But I'm not going to debate that here, not the point.

Problem is the shortage of sandbox style titles.  The very few created in recent years have all included FFA full loot PVP, leaving those who like the sandbox concept but not with full loot out in the cold. (Think AC many years ago)

I'm not saying DF:UW should be anything else but what it is, just saying it's understandable why people would invade the space here hoping for a different design.

 

 Very much this. 

 

I don't get the point of people creating "if you don't like it leave or don't play it" threads.  It doesn't make the game look better, it doesn't make the community look better, It doesn't encourage anyone to actually try the game. 

Instead of telling people to "go away" why don't you help to alleviate some of the issue they may have.  I love EVE and I talk to people all the time about the game.  When they mention something that worries them about it, like FFA PvP, I explain to them how you can play for years and never worry about PvP.  When they mention full loot, I epxlain that it's not hard to replace what you lose and that it's what allows the game to have such a robust economic side to it. 

Instead of telling people who are worreid about full loot in DF to "go play WoW" why don't you explain that it's the only real penalty for dying and that it's INCREDIBLY EASY to replace items. 

However, people who want to see more PvE in DF are absolutely correct.  AV agrees with them, many of the formaer and current DF players agree with them.  Elitist PvP doods, who only want a FFA deathmatch game disagree. 

When poeple complain about constant ganking when you first start, they're right.  AV agrees with them, many former and current  players agree with them.  Ganking was a huge problem when the game first released, all the places new players would have to grind mobs or resources to get started were camped by other players who just wanted to gank.  AV did not impliment newbie protection and change the flagging mechanics becuase there was no problem, they did those things because there was indeed a problem. 

People that want a sandbox game that offers more than grinding mobs, generic crafting, and PvP are correct.  AV agrees with them, many former and current players agree with them.  AV isn't redoing the world, dungeons, outdoor raid bosses, adding more quests and lore to the world because "there's so much to do in DF".  They're doing these things to address the non PvP problems DF was facing. 

AV even agreed that the game needed more "sandboxyness". 

It's very much an arena deathmatch/ king of the hill MMO.  Running around and fighting other players is pretty much the only point of the game. 

 

 

Originally posted by DAS1337

In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.

 

Now back on topic.  Cute post bro.  That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become.  It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you.  You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in.  I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.

 

But go ahead.  Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong.  While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market.  Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI.  Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money.  Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions.  Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong.  Everything is rainbows and butterflies!

 

It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.  

 

(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)

I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.

YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.

The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.

 

Originally posted by Seronys

Originally posted by DAS1337

In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.

 

Now back on topic.  Cute post bro.  That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become.  It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you.  You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in.  I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.

 

But go ahead.  Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong.  While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market.  Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI.  Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money.  Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions.  Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong.  Everything is rainbows and butterflies!

 

It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.  

 

(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)

I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.

YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.

The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.

 

Great post. People that want mindless drivel should look elsewhere. It's pretty sad when the last sliver of decent gaming that has any challenge whatsoever for the non-brain dead is being assaulted.

 

It's always amazed me as time progresses games get more and more simplified and worthless. Pretty soon gaming will be a spectator only sport. I'm still waiting for the first "game" that is just one long cut scene cinematic. 

Originally posted by CallsignVega

Originally posted by Seronys

Originally posted by DAS1337

In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.

 

Now back on topic.  Cute post bro.  That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become.  It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you.  You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in.  I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.

 

But go ahead.  Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong.  While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market.  Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI.  Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money.  Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions.  Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong.  Everything is rainbows and butterflies!

 

It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.  

 

(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)

I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.

YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.

The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.

 

Great post. People that want mindless drivel should look elsewhere. It's pretty sad when the last sliver of decent gaming that has any challenge whatsoever for the non-brain dead is being assaulted.

 

It's always amazed me as time progresses games get more and more simplified and worthless. Pretty soon gaming will be a spectator only sport. I'm still waiting for the first "game" that is just one long cut scene cinematic. 

What is really sad are DF fans thinking that DF is the last sliver of challenging gameplay when there are plenty of superior options out there; without the endless, arrogant, chest beating fans.

Originally posted by Seronys

Originally posted by DAS1337

In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.

 

Now back on topic.  Cute post bro.  That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become.  It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you.  You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in.  I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.

 

But go ahead.  Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong.  While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market.  Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI.  Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money.  Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions.  Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong.  Everything is rainbows and butterflies!

 

It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.  

 

(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)

I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.

YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.

The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.

 

I guess you haven't read his post, and/or don't know what UO and SWG are. 

I'll leave it at that, as the rest of your drivel shows clear ignorance about the sandbox genre and what DarkFall was supposed to be.

Originally posted by Seronys

I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.

 

No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.

 

If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part),  massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7-Gq2UTtWY perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.

I tell you this only one time again, so please pay attention ...

Hardcore PvP = WoW Arena PvP

The griefing thing from darkfall has nothing to do with hardcore.

 

Why? Simple... take the best Arena Gamer from WoW and the best darkfall player. Invente a new PvP game and let them play against each other. You will see how the WoW-Gamer rips the Darkfail-Boy appart.

 

 

Originally posted by Mari2k

I tell you this only one time again, so please pay attention ...

Hardcore PvP = WoW Arena PvP

The griefing thing from darkfall has nothing to do with hardcore.

 

Why? Simple... take the best Arena Gamer from WoW and the best darkfall player. Invente a new PvP game and let them play against each other. You will see how the WoW-Gamer rips the Darkfail-Boy appart.

Silly argument. You don't know who'd win.

A game is supposed to be the vision of the developer, not the players.  If the players want to create a game; they can get together to make their own game.  Don't make demands of a developer to go outside what their vision of their game should be.

Just beacuse there is FFA PVP dosen't automaticly a sandbox game.

A true sandbox game must have more features than just mindless gang zerg fest  with some odd mobs here and there.

Check out SWG,UO AC,EVE for reference.

Originally posted by Seronys

I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.

 

No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.

 

If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part),  massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7-Gq2UTtWY perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.

Answer me this question:

If gear doesnt matter then why even have the ability to loot stuff?  In full loot PvP games the gear never matters and is easily replaced so it begs the question why even have it?

Originally posted by Ravenmane
A game is supposed to be the vision of the developer, not the players.  If the players want to create a game; they can get together to make their own game.  Don't make demands of a developer to go outside what their vision of their game should be.

And then game closes down. Brillant solution!

 

I'd agree with you if developers were making a game solely for themselves. Then it could have as many bugs, exploits and other varied problem as they want, they're the only ones playing the games. However, if you're selling a broken product, your customers are going to want you to fix those issues, or make the necessary changes to certain features to improve the game. Developers have nothing to lose by fixing what's broken and listening a bit more to their playerbase to understand what's wrong.

 

I don't know if you've ever played DarkFall, but here's 2 short examples of things the playerbase really needed, but Aventurine delivered too late.

Back at launch in Feb 2009 until early 2011 (April?), the alignement system was highly exploitable, prevented players from defending their allies without being flagged as a Red (PKer, which prevents visiting NPC cities), and even prevented them from defending themselves without risking of going red. Then Aventurine introduced Chaos Churches, areas where you can "redeem" yourself and go back to being a Blue (a good player, which gives access to npc cities). A problem though, most players had an alignement of -100 (Red), and Chaos church only recovers 2 points a day, so they'd have to wait 50 days without PvP to finally be back to being a Blue player. Finally, months later, AV introduced Lawless Areas (Alignement doesn't apply in those areas) and the issue was more or less solved.

Problem? Between 2009 to 2011, Aventurine lost many players who grew tired of this broken and exploitable alignement system.

 

Another example was the Skill System. The skill system in in DarkFall was initially at launch extremely exploitable. Players were macro'ing using Bloodwalls (alt characters stand still in a Player City for the purpose of being used as a punching bag so that players may raise their skills without risk). Aventurine finally addressed this by greatly boosting the skill gain from PvE. But DarkFall was a very grindy game, it took an insane amount of grinding (in months) to reach the "veteran" level, but it was extremely important. The gap between a new player and a Veteran is immense. New player would have about 100 HPs, deal about 10 damage on naked/low armor target, where as Veterans had 300-400 HPs, dealt about 40-60 damage (and up to 90 with mounts). Suffice to say, these veteran players would indirectly encourage other players to macro and exploit just like they (the veterans) have had to do since launch. Exploiting monsters was rampant, but was more or less addressed in Conquer The Sea expac (late 2009). However, removing mob exploiting made grinding skills even more tedious, and that remained true until Aventurine finally introduced Diminishing Returns for Stats (You'll earn more HP points by going from 20 to 21 Vitality than you would going from 90 to 91)  and later on Meditation (offline skilling). This finally allowed players to become competitive faster.

Problem? In fact, the biggest problem in DarkFall's history. The insame amount of grind required, the need to macro, exploit, AFK swim at night for stats, etc killed the playerbase. Players who had exploited and macro'ed were never banned or rolled back either.

 

Had Aventurine bothered to listen to their playerbase early on, and address those issues, they'd have a much larger playerbase than they currently have (which is only a ridicule fraction of what it was at launch). DarkFall Unholy Wars would have possibly come sooner because AV would have the money to hire more employees (DarkFall: Unholy Wars was originally known as DarkFall 2010...implying it'd be released in 2010, don't need to tell you which date it is today)

 

It's not about "having to change their visions", it's about fixing what's wrong, and running a business. If a company doesn't understand that, well they'll go under. It's happened before, it will happen again.

Originally posted by Seronys

I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.

 

No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.

 

If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part),  massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7-Gq2UTtWY perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.

Its not the pvp or full loot.  Its the players it seems to attract.  Case in point.