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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Why I think ESO will do a great job to advertise sandbox features.

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47 posts found
  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

 
OP  7/09/13 8:53:39 PM#1
 
... not because It has them, but because it hasn't. 
Don't get me wrong I think ESO is going to to be a great game but it still is a themepark. And Skyrim is a sandbox. The game is all about having an impact on the world, and ESO is not going to have that. It will have Skyrims combat and skill system but other parts like the quest content will be yout trusty WoW standard. This is still a step in the right direction, but its not the original Elder Scrolls experience. 
 
In ESO people that played other TES games before will experience first hand what it is like to have the sandbox features that you grow familiar with taken away. I think this will illustrate to many people what the difference between an themepark and a sandbox really is, and that there can be more to a game then hunting for reward. 
 
  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

7/09/13 9:34:12 PM#2
Anyone who says sandbox, themepark, and wow in the same paragraph should just be ignored.
  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

 
OP  7/10/13 8:53:09 AM#3
Originally posted by jimprouner
Anyone who says sandbox, themepark, and wow in the same paragraph should just be ignored.

why?

  Ramanadjinn

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1316

7/10/13 8:57:44 AM#4
Originally posted by jimprouner
Anyone who says sandbox, themepark, and wow in the same paragraph should just be ignored.

 

is this like the fellow who claims his statement is false?

or

This sentence has two erors.

(in case i'm being too subtle, you yourself just used the 3 words all together that when used as such indicate you must be ignored)

 

Still, i'm having trouble understanding your point OP.  Are you saying they should advertise they do not have sandbox features so that we understand the game better?  Am I the only one confused?

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

7/10/13 9:32:10 AM#5
Originally posted by jimprouner
Anyone who says sandbox, themepark, and wow in the same paragraph should just be ignored.

And yet here you are. Failing to even follow your own advice by replying to the OP in the first place.

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

7/10/13 9:39:18 AM#6

They all abandon ESO now and jump on the EQN bandwagon your all so predictable follow hype machines.

ESO is not elder scroll im my eyes its justa glorified chatbox in style of most themeparks.

EQN is cartoony casual sandbox for the mass with shiny colored world which looks aweful.

Both games not worth following.

I'll follow this:

Gloria Victis- free 2 play sandbox developed by indie.

  Ramanadjinn

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1316

7/10/13 9:45:53 AM#7
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

They all abandon ESO now and jump on the EQN bandwagon your all so predictable follow hype machines.

ESO is not elder scroll im my eyes its justa glorified chatbox in style of most themeparks.

EQN is cartoony casual sandbox for the mass with shiny colored world which looks aweful.

Both games not worth following.

I'll follow this:

Gloria Victis- free 2 play sandbox developed by indie.

 

that game looks like it might be a lot of fun.

fortunately for me, i'm not a lunatic and will probably play EQN, TESO, and this Gloria game because this is the real world and not Highlander: The MMO Movie.

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

 
OP  7/10/13 10:34:21 AM#8
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

Still, i'm having trouble understanding your point OP.  Are you saying they should advertise they do not have sandbox features so that we understand the game better?  Am I the only one confused?

Ok, I'll explain: 
The problem with sandbox-themepark debate is that it is taking place somewhere in midair. There are not many well done sandboxes to show of. Well, there is EVE and that one is about spaceships. So most the time the discussion is about hypothetical features and games that do not exist (jet). The problem is that many people don't care much about games they can't actually play. It would be much easier to make a point if there where two similar games to compare, one of them being a sandbox and the other one a themepark. 
 
I estimate, that once ESO is launched, there will be a lot of people complaining, that the game does not feel like Skyrim at all. And they will be crying for features that make ESO more like Skyrim and that will be sandbox features.  
I think it has already has already started with ZeniMax taking any opportunity to tell us that
ESO is not going to be a MMO (like WoW) but a TES-multiplayer-game. 
 
One can reduce it to the formula:
Sandbox = TES - ESO

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4155

7/10/13 10:35:51 AM#9
Skyrim was a sandbox? who knew!
  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

 
OP  7/10/13 11:00:31 AM#10
Originally posted by GroovyFlower
...

EQN is cartoony casual sandbox for the mass with shiny colored world which looks aweful.

...

I'll follow this:

Gloria Victis- free 2 play sandbox developed by indie.

I think we do not know anything about EQN at this point, except some very vague statements and some concept art that may or may not have something to do with the game. We don't even know what exactly they mean by "sandbox". 
Gloria Victis, power to them! I take a closer look at the game when they actually can deliver what they promised. SOE at least has one thing - money.

  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 608

7/10/13 11:06:46 AM#11

Skyrim is a sandbox? Even Morrowind isn't a sandbox.

 

Someone needs to go learn what a sandbox is before making a thread about it.

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

7/10/13 11:08:40 AM#12
Originally posted by Iselin
Skyrim was a sandbox? who knew!

Skyrim is a Hybrid. It had a mix of Themepark and Sandbox.

 

There were 2 things in Skyrim that made it (for me) Sandbox-y

1- Free-form Character build. No set Classes. I could develop my character how I wanted.

2-Free-form Progression. No set "path". No level specific zones or areas. I could go where I wanted to, when I wanted to.

 

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1876

7/10/13 11:11:55 AM#13

Lol people are getting worse and worse. Games are being written off before even being fully revealed! Amazing.

Archage was the saviour for a few minutes. But now it's supposedly a horrible pile of poop.

ESO was the saviour for a few minutes. But now it's a horrible pile of poop.

EQN was the saviour for a few minutes. But now it's a horrible pile of poop.

Gloria Vicits is totally the saviour! Yes, it will be the best things ever! . . . Clock is ticking until pile of poop time.

 

Can we get a jumpstart on the next one after Gloria Vicits manages to fail you?

Imaginary game that an unknown developer hasn't thought of yet is the new saviour!

 

Do you people even like games? Let alone MMOs?

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4155

7/10/13 11:51:15 AM#14
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Iselin
Skyrim was a sandbox? who knew!

Skyrim is a Hybrid. It had a mix of Themepark and Sandbox.

 

There were 2 things in Skyrim that made it (for me) Sandbox-y

1- Free-form Character build. No set Classes. I could develop my character how I wanted.

2-Free-form Progression. No set "path". No level specific zones or areas. I could go where I wanted to, when I wanted to.

 

Skyrim is a hybrid like all MMOs are hybrids. One sandbox-like feature does not a sandbox make.

But that's OK. Sandboxes sound very nice in theory but they tend to play like shit for most gamers. People with OCD find them right up their alley though... "today I think I'll spend 8 hours collecting clay...in tomorrows game session I'll shape the bricks... reminder to self: must build an oven and chop enough wood to bake the bricks next week"...and that's just half a wall...

If you're willing to really, really stretch the meaning of the word to mean "shit I like that gives me enough choice" in which case themepark  becomes "shit I don't like that doesn't give me enough choice" then yeah, you can throw the terms around all you want...just as long as you know you're still not talking about sandboxes.

Character build choice is part of every RPG. You can almost say it's a defining characteristic. And all of them have limits. The only intelligent thing you can say about the system in any particular RPG is that it gives you enough choice for your own particular taste...or not.

As to your second point... welcome to the wonderful world of non-instanced single person RPGs. No one else has to be in the same "zone" as you so they can auto-scale content difficulty on the fly to match your level. How do you so that in an MMO without phasing-off everyone? Downscaling and "mentoring"? GW2 and Rift (to name just 2) already do that with some success...although downscaled characters are typically OP'd for any given lowbee area.

"Bolstering" also isn't much of a problem and, once again, GW2 already does that for their 3-sided WvW (as will this game.) The problem there is that unequipped and not fully developed characters just get their stats scaled--they'll still be missing the better gear and skills that can only be acquired through leveling.

Anyway, the point is that, "go anywhere do anything" is just an illusion. And not even a very good one since character progression gets in the way: even in Skyrim the 8X or 10X backstab modifier (or whatever it is, I forget) is something that makes "going everywhere and doing everything" a heck of a lot easier than not having that...and you can only get it through leveling.

it's all smoke and mirrors. The discussion around here usually just boils down to which smoke and which mirrors do a better job of allowing us to fool ourselves.

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

7/10/13 8:54:39 PM#15
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by jimprouner
Anyone who says sandbox, themepark, and wow in the same paragraph should just be ignored.

And yet here you are. Failing to even follow your own advice by replying to the OP in the first place.

Actually those should be in quotations.  I didn't feel like putting forth the effort though.  Regardless, I didn't say them, and any idiot who passed 6th grade english should understand that.

First off you are using wow and themepark as a red herring to rip on.

Second, you are claiming sandbox superiority, despite it being a dead genre.

  IridescentOrk

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 160

7/10/13 9:00:21 PM#16

they just need to say that the game has sandbox elements and the hype will be back to its former glory

gameplay > graphics

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4155

7/10/13 9:01:50 PM#17
Originally posted by IridescentOrk

they just need to say that the game has sandbox elements and the hype will be back to its former glory

Lol. Sad but true :)

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15970

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/10/13 9:21:04 PM#18
Originally posted by Vonatar

Skyrim is a sandbox? Even Morrowind isn't a sandbox.

 

Someone needs to go learn what a sandbox is before making a thread about it.

I have to agree, Skyrim or other TES games are designed around three things, dungeons, questing and exploration. The only difference between it and something like EQ is that it's world levels along with you (since oblivion). They hardly even have what I'd consider a true virtual world, as they leave little to do outside of stealing or killing. Just compare TES's world with the world in Two Worlds 2, the latter has an abundance of non combat activities to take part in TES doesn't.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/10/13 10:15:50 PM#19


Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Vonatar Skyrim is a sandbox? Even Morrowind isn't a sandbox.   Someone needs to go learn what a sandbox is before making a thread about it.
I have to agree, Skyrim or other TES games are designed around three things, dungeons, questing and exploration. The only difference between it and something like EQ is that it's world levels along with you (since oblivion). They hardly even have what I'd consider a true virtual world, as they leave little to do outside of stealing or killing. Just compare TES's world with the world in Two Worlds 2, the latter has an abundance of non combat activities to take part in TES doesn't.



Oblivion's world is more of a world than most games. The NPCs have lives that and goals that go far beyond any game I've ever heard of. At least one of them cheats on his wife, but you'll never know this unless you follow them around until the one day of the week that they don't sleep at home. Is there an MMORPG, sandbox or otherwise that does this? That's how a virtual world works. Things happen whether the player is there or not.

Anyway, most sites consider Skyrim a sandbox game. There are a few hold out areas, on message boards like this one, but most of the internet, which means most of the world considers Skyrim a sandbox. So it's not surprising that someone might come here and post about Skyrim's sandbox features.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2840

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/10/13 11:11:48 PM#20
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

They all abandon ESO now and jump on the EQN bandwagon your all so predictable follow hype machines.

ESO is not elder scroll im my eyes its justa glorified chatbox in style of most themeparks.

EQN is cartoony casual sandbox for the mass with shiny colored world which looks aweful.

Both games not worth following.

I'll follow this:

Gloria Victis- free 2 play sandbox developed by indie.

 I read this and I think of this: 

 

 

Indie games by and large suck so bad that they aren't even worth following and as much flak as I give TESO I'd play a million TESO styled games or Shinny EQN's over the likes of the hipster agenda driving indie sub culture.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

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